Just the facts, Jack!

[iamwhatiseem]

Corporations don't give their employees anything. In return for labor, they offer compensation that includes wages, health insurance, SS. They make more money off of that labor than they pay to the employee.
Over the last 30 years, the ability of that compensation to pay for homes, healthcare, energy and education has decreased. The taxpayer has had to step in and supplement that declining employee compensation.

Sorry Bub, but as usual the Kool-Aid affect gets in the way of your thinking.
Price of a product or service, except when there is a captive customer base, is driven solely by what people will pay for it.
Americans over and over and over and over choose cheap price over anything else...this forces corporations to find anyway they can to lower costs to continue to make a profit.
You wanna know who is the most at fault for declining wages?
Start by looking in the mirror.

Doesnt matter. Employers are still making a profit off of every employee.

Why can't people continue to pay for product and service? Consumers have cut back because of declining spending power.

Typical blame the victim conservative talking point

Are you being obtuse or are you really this dense?
Of COURSE employers make a profit off of their employees...what the hell you think companies use to buy equipment, replace computers, invest in expansions etc. etc....you think they are GIVEN these things???
All of that comes from past profits. Profit is not some evil endeavor, they are absolutely necessary for a company...to STAY a company.
You know what a company that doesn't make profits off of their employees looks like?

This------------------

 

[iamwhatiseem]

Sorry Bub, but as usual the Kool-Aid affect gets in the way of your thinking.
Price of a product or service, except when there is a captive customer base, is driven solely by what people will pay for it.
Americans over and over and over and over choose cheap price over anything else...this forces corporations to find anyway they can to lower costs to continue to make a profit.
You wanna know who is the most at fault for declining wages?
Start by looking in the mirror.

Doesnt matter. Employers are still making a profit off of every employee.

Why can't people continue to pay for product and service? Consumers have cut back because of declining spending power.

Typical blame the victim conservative talking point

Exactly! Spending will go up when people are paid what they are worth. Not sure that will happen any time soon, but you gotta have money to spend money.

I can't believe you just said "Spending will go up when people are paid what they are worth."
This has got to be the single dumbest statement I have read on this forum yet. Even worse then something written by TM.
I started to explain why, but I just erased it. You are CLEARLY not able to think for yourself.
Wow....I hope others see what you posted.

 

[asterism]

Key Tax Facts

15,753: The number of households in 1961 with $1 million in taxable income (adjusted for inflation).
361,000: The number of households in 2011 estimated to have $1 million in taxable income.
43.1: Percent of total reported income that Americans earning $1 million paid in taxes in 1961 (adjusted for 2011 dollars)
23.1: Percent of total reported income that Americans earning $1 million are likely to pay in taxes in 2011, estimated from latest IRS data.
47.4: Percent of profits corporations paid in taxes in 1961.
11.1: Percent of profits corporations paid in taxes in 2011.

It's completely irrational to insist that corporations and the ones who hoovered up all the money, and have all the money, shouldn't have to pay the taxes inherent TO the money.

Unnecessary Austerity, Unnecessary Shutdown - IPS

You'll note that the total millionaire income of 1961 versus 2011 are $15.8 Billion and $361 Billion respectively and the total taxes collected are $6.8 Billion versus $83.4 Billion.

Seems to me cutting the tax rates increased revenue by a whole lot. This is a problem?

 

[asterism]

People who used to be able to support their family on one job, now need 2-3, and some have taken to selling plasma (don't laugh, I personally know 'these people').

There's no real reason that such things should be happening.

Walmart Job Applicants: 'I'll Take Anything'

If people lived a 1950s style standard of living (one car, one TV, small house, few extras and very little outside entertainment) they could (and many do) make it on an average salary. Most families in the US don't have a revenue problem, they have a spending problem.

 

[rightwinger]

People who used to be able to support their family on one job, now need 2-3, and some have taken to selling plasma (don't laugh, I personally know 'these people').

There's no real reason that such things should be happening.

Walmart Job Applicants: 'I'll Take Anything'

If people lived a 1950s style standard of living (one car, one TV, small house, few extras and very little outside entertainment) they could (and many do) make it on an average salary. Most families in the US don't have a revenue problem, they have a spending problem.

all the right wing talking points....a spending problem

Yes....spending on housing, electricity, gas, the kids education, medical bills

Such extravagance

 

[BDBoop]

People who used to be able to support their family on one job, now need 2-3, and some have taken to selling plasma (don't laugh, I personally know 'these people').

There's no real reason that such things should be happening.

Walmart Job Applicants: 'I'll Take Anything'

If people lived a 1950s style standard of living (one car, one TV, small house, few extras and very little outside entertainment) they could (and many do) make it on an average salary. Most families in the US don't have a revenue problem, they have a spending problem.

all the right wing talking points....a spending problem

Yes....spending on housing, electricity, gas, the kids education, medical bills

Such extravagance

Exactly. People with degrees are scrambling for jobs at Walmart, and you make that about spending.

 

[asterism]

People who used to be able to support their family on one job, now need 2-3, and some have taken to selling plasma (don't laugh, I personally know 'these people').

There's no real reason that such things should be happening.

Walmart Job Applicants: 'I'll Take Anything'

If people lived a 1950s style standard of living (one car, one TV, small house, few extras and very little outside entertainment) they could (and many do) make it on an average salary. Most families in the US don't have a revenue problem, they have a spending problem.

all the right wing talking points....a spending problem

Yes....spending on housing, electricity, gas, the kids education, medical bills

Such extravagance

Housing is much more expensive because the average size of new homes have dramatically increased. College is now considered an entitlement regardless of any potential earnings increase that could be realized. Yes, the average family has a spending problem.

 

[asterism]

If people lived a 1950s style standard of living (one car, one TV, small house, few extras and very little outside entertainment) they could (and many do) make it on an average salary. Most families in the US don't have a revenue problem, they have a spending problem.

all the right wing talking points....a spending problem

Yes....spending on housing, electricity, gas, the kids education, medical bills

Such extravagance

Exactly. People with degrees are scrambling for jobs at Walmart, and you make that about spending.

Why do you suppose people with degrees are doing that? Didn't they major in something marketable and in demand?

 

[Oddball]

People who used to be able to support their family on one job, now need 2-3, and some have taken to selling plasma (don't laugh, I personally know 'these people').

Yeah...Now one works to support the family while the other works to pay the taxes.

How is that when taxes are lower than they were 30 years ago?

It used to be that a blue collar worker could support his wife, children, house, cars,medical insurance......AND pay his taxes on one salary

How is it that so-called "tax freedom day" is now into June, when taxes are so allegedly low?

 

[iamwhatiseem]

People who used to be able to support their family on one job, now need 2-3, and some have taken to selling plasma (don't laugh, I personally know 'these people').

There's no real reason that such things should be happening.

Walmart Job Applicants: 'I'll Take Anything'

If people lived a 1950s style standard of living (one car, one TV, small house, few extras and very little outside entertainment) they could (and many do) make it on an average salary. Most families in the US don't have a revenue problem, they have a spending problem.

all the right wing talking points....a spending problem

Yes....spending on housing, electricity, gas, the kids education, medical bills

Such extravagance

Whatever kid...[flip]...here's a quarter...go buy some bubble gum to entertain that master-mind of yours.

You just actually said that most American families don't have a spending problem...amazing, now I truly will understand how some people will vote Obama a second time.

 

[imbalance]

Sorry Bub, but as usual the Kool-Aid affect gets in the way of your thinking.
Price of a product or service, except when there is a captive customer base, is driven solely by what people will pay for it.
Americans over and over and over and over choose cheap price over anything else...this forces corporations to find anyway they can to lower costs to continue to make a profit.
You wanna know who is the most at fault for declining wages?
Start by looking in the mirror.

Doesnt matter. Employers are still making a profit off of every employee.

Why can't people continue to pay for product and service? Consumers have cut back because of declining spending power.

Typical blame the victim conservative talking point

Are you being obtuse or are you really this dense?
Of COURSE employers make a profit off of their employees...what the hell you think companies use to buy equipment, replace computers, invest in expansions etc. etc....you think they are GIVEN these things???
All of that comes from past profits. Profit is not some evil endeavor, they are absolutely necessary for a company...to STAY a company.
You know what a company that doesn't make profits off of their employees looks like?

This------------------

Dude just google Dialectical Materialism and it will all make sense. It's the Marxist economic philosophy these idiot Obama drones have been indoctrinated with.

 

[rightwinger]

If people lived a 1950s style standard of living (one car, one TV, small house, few extras and very little outside entertainment) they could (and many do) make it on an average salary. Most families in the US don't have a revenue problem, they have a spending problem.

all the right wing talking points....a spending problem

Yes....spending on housing, electricity, gas, the kids education, medical bills

Such extravagance

Housing is much more expensive because the average size of new homes have dramatically increased. College is now considered an entitlement regardless of any potential earnings increase that could be realized. Yes, the average family has a spending problem.

Yes, wanting your kids to be able to go to college, wanting to own your own home....used to be the American dream

Now the conservatives call it your spending problem

 

[iamwhatiseem]

all the right wing talking points....a spending problem

Yes....spending on housing, electricity, gas, the kids education, medical bills

Such extravagance

Housing is much more expensive because the average size of new homes have dramatically increased. College is now considered an entitlement regardless of any potential earnings increase that could be realized. Yes, the average family has a spending problem.

Yes, wanting your kids to be able to go to college, wanting to own your own home....used to be the American dream

Now the conservatives call it your spending problem

You picked an outstanding avatar to represent yourself.
Education cost went up flat-earther not because of some evil plan - but because the government created a false demand for it.
College is not for everyone, particularly not for high school drop outs and kids who couldn't make it in high school - success in college is not a real possibility for them...ya think?
Thanks to the government for paying for just about anyone who is a minority, had single parents or parents that never saved a dime for their kids education but have big screen TV's, 5 figures in credit card debt and a hot tub - the drop out rate for grant students is now OVER HALF!!

 

[rightwinger]

Housing is much more expensive because the average size of new homes have dramatically increased. College is now considered an entitlement regardless of any potential earnings increase that could be realized. Yes, the average family has a spending problem.

Yes, wanting your kids to be able to go to college, wanting to own your own home....used to be the American dream

Now the conservatives call it your spending problem

You picked an outstanding avatar to represent yourself.
Education cost went up flat-earther not because of some evil plan - but because the government created a false demand for it.
College is not for everyone, particularly not for high school drop outs and kids who couldn't make it in high school - success in college is not a real possibility for them...ya think?
Thanks to the government for paying for just about anyone who is a minority, had single parents or parents that never saved a dime for their kids education but have big screen TV's, 5 figures in credit card debt and a hot tub - the drop out rate for grant students is now OVER HALF!!

College is being priced out of the grasp of working Americans. It is not just that the marginal student can't afford it, it is many outstanding students who face huge tuition and no part time jobs to pay for it

Big screen TVs? Hot tubs?

You left out the caviar and limos. Learn about the real world

 

[iamwhatiseem]

Yes, wanting your kids to be able to go to college, wanting to own your own home....used to be the American dream

Now the conservatives call it your spending problem

You picked an outstanding avatar to represent yourself.
Education cost went up flat-earther not because of some evil plan - but because the government created a false demand for it.
College is not for everyone, particularly not for high school drop outs and kids who couldn't make it in high school - success in college is not a real possibility for them...ya think?
Thanks to the government for paying for just about anyone who is a minority, had single parents or parents that never saved a dime for their kids education but have big screen TV's, 5 figures in credit card debt and a hot tub - the drop out rate for grant students is now OVER HALF!!

College is being priced out of the grasp of working Americans. It is not just that the marginal student can't afford it, it is many outstanding students who face huge tuition and no part time jobs to pay for it

Big screen TVs? Hot tubs?

You left out the caviar and limos. Learn about the real world

Absolutely college tuition is out of grasp for many middle class.
B U T...not the lower class. The lower class can get everything paid including room and board quite easily through government grants. The wealthy have no problem paying tuition - that leaves the middle class stuck...well...in the middle, too much wages for grants, not enough to out-right pay for it.
College tuition has went to all time over-inflation in the last 10 years...why? Because government is now giving financial aid between 30%-50% of ALL students...this creates a HUGE demand that otherwise would not be there since a great deal of them should not BE in college.

 

[flacaltenn]

More facts:

1961 saw America in a sever recession.
Kennedy cut taxes more than Reagan or GW Bush and began a recovery.

You're suggesting Kennedy was a right wing evil corp tool because it's not a question of revenue or jobs, it's like Obama said "it's a question of fairness".

Its a macro-economy, not a chemistry experiment, X.

There are times when supply side policies (like cutting taxes) are a good idea and times when they serve no good purpose and even make things worse.

Seriously, do you not understand that?

Do you think there is a one action fits all situations formula for the economy?

That's is exactly the argument that has been foisted on this nation by the GOP for the last 40 years -- All supply side econ policies all the time.

Sometimes they've been right, but at other times they've been dead wrong.

Like now.

Now I am not saying taxes ought to be increased now.

But to imagine that cutting taxes solves all woes in all circumstances is flat out wrong.

It's the DEMAND side that's hosed, right now, not the supply side.

Might NOT be the DEMAND side that hosed right now.. It might be because DEMAND USED to be a viable way to restart the economy.. All DEMAND side stimulus does now is turn up the action at the Pacific Coast docks..

If we're all "servicing" each other and not creating goods --- this Supply/Demand thingy has fundamentally changed.

OTOH -- It's clear that govt has a spending problem and not a revenue problem. A good long recession will clarify that for the mentally dense because it "stress tests" the non-discretionary budget. And the time to consider RAISING taxes is AFTER you can project a budget that isn't on an automatic 8% growth baseline in a funcnking recession..

 

[flacaltenn]

Key Tax Facts

15,753: The number of households in 1961 with $1 million in taxable income (adjusted for inflation).
361,000: The number of households in 2011 estimated to have $1 million in taxable income.
43.1: Percent of total reported income that Americans earning $1 million paid in taxes in 1961 (adjusted for 2011 dollars)
23.1: Percent of total reported income that Americans earning $1 million are likely to pay in taxes in 2011, estimated from latest IRS data.
47.4: Percent of profits corporations paid in taxes in 1961.
11.1: Percent of profits corporations paid in taxes in 2011.

It's completely irrational to insist that corporations and the ones who hoovered up all the money, and have all the money, shouldn't have to pay the taxes inherent TO the money.

Unnecessary Austerity, Unnecessary Shutdown - IPS

Two different problems BDBoop.. The comparison was cherry-picked to 1961 just before the rate structure started to collapse from about 20 brackets to less. In 1961, personal income over 100K was taxed at 89%. No incentive at all to really earn more than 50K. In 1964 it was down to 70% at 100K.. There was NEVER a year in that period that govt REVENUES didn't increase!!!

http://www.taxfoundation.org/files/fed_individual_rate_history-20110323.pdf

Marginal individual rates at the top bracket have shown very little influence on govt revenues -- but have arguably "allowed" more people the opportunity to BE rich. You can have your whack at readjusting them AFTER we wake up to economic reality and control the spending. But the lefties better get wise about WHAT TAX TOOLS they really want to use, because raising the top INCOME tax rate is not gonna do shit to humble hedge fund mgrs and Warren Buffet. It's gonna hurt Jimmy Buffett.. Because Warren's income is CAP GAINS taxable and that's why today's rich pay LESS. Because MORE people are involved in investment than in 1961 and less is coming from salary.. And if you whine just about the BUSH tax cuts -- you're TOTALLY ignoring the realities of the problem. You better also muck with the cap gains carefully, because the economy is MORE sensitive to that number than income tax brackets.

For Corporations -- there IS DEFINATELY a problem. But it's NOT the RATE they are paying. It's all the tax rebates that the govt (mostly actually the left thru green energy) has handed to them.. It's SUBSIDIES that are the problem, not the rate. In fact, NO company should get a subsidy for a product that ALREADY EXISTS like ethanol or dishwashers, or light bulbs, or wind turbines. The only subsidies that have a meaningful ROI are R&D subsidies for new products. And the corporate rates should actually come down again AFTER you stop the madness of politicians pandering to corporate laziness. Like appointing Jeff Immelt as your "jobs advisor" whilst he charges the govt 75bucks for every dishwasher that GE sells because you leftist MORONS think that's saving the planet..

 

[Dr.House]

If people lived a 1950s style standard of living (one car, one TV, small house, few extras and very little outside entertainment) they could (and many do) make it on an average salary. Most families in the US don't have a revenue problem, they have a spending problem.

all the right wing talking points....a spending problem

Yes....spending on housing, electricity, gas, the kids education, medical bills

Such extravagance

Exactly. People with degrees are scrambling for jobs at Walmart, and you make that about spending.

Isn't the 0bamaconomy fucking wonderful, BDPoop?

Thank goodness for Dear Leader....

 

[MikeK]

Corporations should have to pay very little if any income taxes...period.
They already pay a portion of SS tax for every employee, property taxes, inventory taxes and collect mountains of sales taxes for the government...for free.
Corporations also provide healthcare coverage, provide jobs for their employees - but more importantly they are a cog in the wheel that provides jobs for suppliers, vendors, raw material manufacturers, transportation etc. etc. etc.

It is fantastically stupid to insist on raising taxes on businesses - I mean COW stupid.
Just as stupid as it was to pass NAFTA so thousands of "spokes in the jobs wheel" disappeared so investors could make more money.

You are one of many Americans who are effectively brainwashed by the misleading mantras of such corporate-sponsored propagandists as Glenn Beck, Rush Limbaugh, Sean Hannity and other multi-millionaire right-wing broadcasters. What you've been led to believe would make sense were it not for the inordinately unbalanced distribution of the Nation's wealth resources which has systematically occurred during the past three decades of Reaganomics and accompanying deregulations.

You obviously are unaware of just how much wealth has been transferred from the 95% majority of Americans to a 5% minority along with substantial reductions in the tax rates of corporations and the super-rich. If you were aware of the real numbers involved in this long-term financial maneuvering I'm quite sure your ideas would change.

Unless something radical is done (significant tax increases) to restore economic balance it is unavoidable that our Country will fall into another depression which is believed will be much worse than the last one.

 

[iamwhatiseem]

Corporations should have to pay very little if any income taxes...period.
They already pay a portion of SS tax for every employee, property taxes, inventory taxes and collect mountains of sales taxes for the government...for free.
Corporations also provide healthcare coverage, provide jobs for their employees - but more importantly they are a cog in the wheel that provides jobs for suppliers, vendors, raw material manufacturers, transportation etc. etc. etc.

It is fantastically stupid to insist on raising taxes on businesses - I mean COW stupid.
Just as stupid as it was to pass NAFTA so thousands of "spokes in the jobs wheel" disappeared so investors could make more money.

You are one of many Americans who are effectively brainwashed by the misleading mantras of such corporate-sponsored propagandists as Glenn Beck, Rush Limbaugh, Sean Hannity and other multi-millionaire right-wing broadcasters. What you've been led to believe would make sense were it not for the inordinately unbalanced distribution of the Nation's wealth resources which has systematically occurred during the past three decades of Reaganomics and accompanying deregulations.

You obviously are unaware of just how much wealth has been transferred from the 95% majority of Americans to a 5% minority along with substantial reductions in the tax rates of corporations and the super-rich. If you were aware of the real numbers involved in this long-term financial maneuvering I'm quite sure your ideas would change.

Unless something radical is done (significant tax increases) to restore economic balance it is unavoidable that our Country will fall into another depression which is believed will be much worse than the last one.

Sorry to burst your bubble but I wouldn't watch Beck or Hannity or listen to Rush if it was the only thing on. These guys are all clowns no different than the Mickey Mouse liberals on MSNBC.
I believe these things because I RUN A BUSINESS.
You tied corporations and the super rich together, can't do that. I never said anything about taxation of wealthy people - I said taxation of businesses.