Jews and salvation

[rtwngAvngr]

Chapter and verse, please. That's not anywhere in my Bible.

But us establishing israel is?

 

[5stringJeff]

But us establishing israel is?

That's not what I said. I said we should support Israel because God ordained its existence - in other words we shouldn't oppose God.

So, where does the Bible say that the new Israel will be the antichrist kingdom? You're not dodging this one.

 

[dilloduck]

Because the Bible prophesies that God will reestablish Israel at the end times. So if Israel's existence is God's perogative, then we as Christians should be in favor of it. It doesn't mean that we don't want to teach the Jews about Jesus. It means that we (evangelicals) believe that God has ordained Israel's existence.

So Jews are basically the guardians of Israel and we pay them to take care of it?
Seriously--Is God re-establishing Israel by having Americans foot the bill?

 

[rtwngAvngr]

That's not what I said. I said we should support Israel because God ordained its existence - in other words we shouldn't oppose God.

So, where does the Bible say that the new Israel will be the antichrist kingdom? You're not dodging this one.

It's not opposing god.

God says it will happen. That doesn't mean we have to keep god from being wrong.

Anyway. I see the value of israel in a strictly non mythological way. My concern is those who blindly support jews regardless of how toilet-like they make america. Supporting israel should be a carrot to be used to get things for america too. I don't do onesided, abusive relationships. Neither should america.

 

[Hobbit]

Nowhere in the Bible does it say that Israel, or Islam, or the Vatican, or anywhere will be the country of origin for the Antichrist. The only clue it gives to the origin of the Antichrist is that 'the Beast,' as Revelation calls him, came from 'the sea.' It doesn't even name the sea that the Beast comes from.

As far as our benefit from Israel, supporting them gives us a strong ally and striking base in the Middle East. If nothing else, Israel is a large, convenient target to keep the extremists' minds off of us.

And as for the original topic, Jews need Jesus, just like everyone else. I think the verse "No man can come to the Father but through me," pretty much says it all.

 

[rtwngAvngr]

Nowhere in the Bible does it say that Israel, or Islam, or the Vatican, or anywhere will be the country of origin for the Antichrist. The only clue it gives to the origin of the Antichrist is that 'the Beast,' as Revelation calls him, came from 'the sea.' It doesn't even name the sea that the Beast comes from.

As far as our benefit from Israel, supporting them gives us a strong ally and striking base in the Middle East. If nothing else, Israel is a large, convenient target to keep the extremists' minds off of us.

And as for the original topic, Jews need Jesus, just like everyone else. I think the verse "No man can come to the Father but through me," pretty much says it all.

But the antichrist will return to the rebuilt temple in jerusalem, and from there will announce that he is god and wants to be worshipped, this is called the abomination of desolation. So it all starts there.

I support israel in a pragmatic way, but not mindlessly based on an idea my mission is to perpetuate israel at all costs.

 

[Avatar4321]

Right, but also INCLUDING jews. That's my point. I don't understand how some evangelicals got it in their mind that helping establish israel is some sort of holy duty of the christians.

Cause the scriptures are pretty clear that we are to help gather Israel. Duh.

You seem to have very little faith that God can Redeem His people, and believe me they are still His people.

 

[rtwngAvngr]

Cause the scriptures are pretty clear that we are to help gather Israel. Duh.

You seem to have very little faith that God can Redeem His people, and believe me they are still His people.

I don't see it. Their religion was corrupted long ago by all the Talmudic thought.

Christ is the answer, for them too.

 

[Avatar4321]

But us establishing israel is?

"22 Thus saith the Lord GOD, Behold, I will lift up mine hand to the Gentiles, and set up my standard to the people: and they shall bring thy sons in their arms, and thy daughters shall be carried upon their shoulders.

23 And kings shall be thy nursing fathers, and their queens thy nursing mothers: they shall bow down to thee with their face toward the earth, and lick up the dust of thy feet; and thou shalt know that I am the LORD: for they shall not be ashamed that wait for me." (Isaiah 49:22-23)

The Lord is pretty clear that the Gentiles will help gather Israel again. So exactly why shouldnt we want to help fulfill prophecy?

 

[Avatar4321]

I don't see it. Their religion was corrupted long ago by all the Talmudic thought.

Christ is the answer, for them too.

Yeah it is, but it doesnt change the fact that the Lord has prophecied that the Gentiles would be key to the gathering of Israel again. Or the fact that you have little faith that the Lord can redeem Israel.

 

[rtwngAvngr]

"22 Thus saith the Lord GOD, Behold, I will lift up mine hand to the Gentiles, and set up my standard to the people: and they shall bring thy sons in their arms, and thy daughters shall be carried upon their shoulders.

23 And kings shall be thy nursing fathers, and their queens thy nursing mothers: they shall bow down to thee with their face toward the earth, and lick up the dust of thy feet; and thou shalt know that I am the LORD: for they shall not be ashamed that wait for me." (Isaiah 49:22-23)

The Lord is pretty clear that the Gentiles will help gather Israel again. So exactly why shouldnt we want to help fulfill prophecy?

We shouldn't have to. If we have to fulfill prophecy, then prophecy is just a set of commands.

It sounds like old testament wishful thinking. Jews went on the shitlist for rejecting jesus, as far as I'm concerned.

 

[Nienna]

Screw that, mom. If we're helping them with their ethnic homeland, they can at least help us enforce our borders instead of calling us rednecks and racists.

I'm missing some pieces. Haven't been following the news, lately. ARE they calling us rednecks & racists? If so, why? Where is this info to be found?

 

[dilloduck]

Yeah it is, but it doesnt change the fact that the Lord has prophecied that the Gentiles would be key to the gathering of Israel again. Or the fact that you have little faith that the Lord can redeem Israel.

So American's are investing in Israel to help fulfill the prophecies ?

 

[rtwngAvngr]

http://www.wrmea.com/backissues/1288/8812031.htm

What is the message of the Christian Zionist? Simply stated it is this: Every act taken by Israel is orchestrated by God, and should be condoned, supported, and even praised by the rest of us.

"Never mind what Israel does," say the Christian Zionists. "God wants this to happen." This includes the invasion of Lebanon, which killed or injured an estimated 100,000 Lebanese and Palestinians, most of them civilians; the bombing of sovereign nations such as Iraq; the deliberate, methodical brutalizing of the Palestinians—breaking bones, shooting children, and demolishing homes; and the expulsion of Palestinian Christians and Muslims from a land they have occupied for over 2,000 years.

My premise in Prophecy and Politics is that Christian Zionism is a dangerous and growing segment of Christianity, which was popularized by the 19th-century American Cyrus Scofield when he wrote into a Bible his interpretation of events in history. These events all centered around Israel—past, present, and future. His Scofield Bible is today the most popular of the reference Bibles.

Scofield said that Christ cannot return to earth until certain events occur: The Jews must return to Palestine, gain control of Jerusalem and rebuild a temple, and then we all must engage in the final, great battle called Armageddon. Estimates vary, but most students of Armageddon theology agree that as a result of these relatively recent interpretations of Biblical scripture, 10 to 40 million Americans believe Palestine is God's chosen land for the Jews.

Has the power of the Christian Zionists diminished?

I do not think so. Rather, we are seeing how the Christian Zionists, motivated by religious beliefs, are working hand in glove with politically motivated, militant Jewish Zionists around the world. It is the Christian support of Zionism that emboldens Zionists to believe they can dictate to relatively weak and dependent countries such as Austria, whom they may choose as their president.

It is the Christian support of Zionism that allows Manuel Noriega to remain the strongman in Panama, misusing his power, regardless of what harm he causes to the United States, his neighbors, and his people.

It is the Christian support of Zionism that enables the militant Israelis to take over Palestinian homes surrounding the Al-Aqsa mosque in pursuit of their well-documented plan to destroy Jerusalem's most holy Islamic site, sacred to a billion Muslims around the world—one-fifth of humanity.

 

[rtwngAvngr]

http://www.rense.com/general29/reasses.htm
Christians Should Reassess
Support for Israel
Zionism, Anti Semitism and
American Democracy
By Henry Makow, PhD
9-24-2

Christians who believe Israel represents an outpost of Western Civilization might benefit from a book entitled "Jewish History, Jewish Religion" (1994) by Israel Shahak, a Professor Emeritus at Hebrew University.

Shahak escaped from a Nazi concentration camp and later served in the Israeli army. He is an organic chemist who combines a research scientist's objectivity with a humanist's commitment to universal ideals.

It appears that Judaism made a mistake when it rejected Christ's gospel of Love. As a consequence, Judaism may have become a primitive and possibly dangerous anachronism in the 21st Century. According to Shahak, Judaism is a xenophobic totalitarian belief system that has morphed into a fanatical Zionist ideology that now threatens the whole world. I must admit that, even as an assimilated Jew, reading this book was like taking cod liver oil, not pleasant.

Shahak writes:


1) The Talmud, which consists of rabbinical interpretations of the law, treats Christ and Christians with contempt. Unlike the Koran, which regards Christ as a great prophet, the Talmud contains "very offensive precepts and statements directed specifically against Christianity. For example, in addition to a series of scurrilous sexual allegations against Jesus, the Talmud states that his punishment in hell is to be immersed in boiling excrement. . . Jews are instructed to burn, publicly if possible, any copy of the New Testament that comes into their hands." (p. 21)


2) The Talmud treats non-Jews as sub human and directs Jews to discriminate against them. For example, the concept of adultery "does not apply to intercourse between a Jewish man and a gentile woman; rather, the Talmud equates such intercourse to the sin of bestiality." (87) Robbery (with violence) is strictly forbidden if the victim is Jewish, but is permitted if the victim is Gentile, "when they are under our rule." "The whole [rabbinical] debate is concerned only with the relative powers of Jews and gentiles rather than with universal considerations of justice and humanity, " Shahak writes. "This may be why so few rabbis have protested over the robbery of Palestinian property in Israel." (90)


3) Shahak disputes whether Judaism is in fact monotheistic: "In many if not most of the books of the Old Testament, the existence and powers of 'other Gods' are clearly acknowledged, but Yahweh (Jehovah) is the most powerful of his rivals, and forbids his people to worship them." The decay of monotheism came about through the spread of Jewish mysticism (the cabbala), which is now dominant and includes many prayers and actions designed to propitiate Satan. (32-33)


4) The Old Testament does not have the same place in Judaism as the New Testament has for Christianity. Most biblical verses are reinterpreted by the Talmud in a sense that is distinct and quite contrary to their literal meaning. For example, the famous verse 'thy shall love thy fellow as thyself' (Leviticus 19:18) is understood as an injunction to love one's fellow Jew not any fellow man. (37)

According to Shahak, classical Judaism is not so much a religion as a tyrannical system of social control administered by rabbis. Ordinary Jews were forced to obey a labyrinth of capricious laws on pain of fines, beatings or even murder, administered by the non-Jewish aristocracy that would get a share of the fines.

Aristocrats and the Jewish elite had other common interests. Throughout the middle ages, Jews served as middlemen, or bailiffs administering the oppression of the peasants by Gentile kings and nobles. Often the king would give Jews the concession to manage his holdings. Without condoning pogroms or the holocaust, this and the above-mentioned teachings are probably the real causes of anti Semitism.

The tyranny of aristocrats and rabbis was broken by the Enlightenment, which gave rise to the nation state, the middle class, democracy and the rule of reason. Jews and non-Jews alike were liberated. The New World Order represents a kind of neo feudalism, an attempt to restore the old order. Aristocrats and their moneylenders, organized in secret societies like the Freemasons (who believe in the cabbala) make up the Illuminati. It also includes dynastic families, which control large cartels in partnership with the moneylenders. For more than a hundred years, these people have worked behind the scenes to destroy the four pillars of Western Civilization: The nation-state, Christianity, democracy and the family.

Communist Russia and Israel are both Illuminati states, created to foster oligarchic world government. Israel is intended to be the seat of world government/religion. The Star of David is also a Masonic symbol.

In Communism, the sons of rabbis built a new worldly religion that mirrored the fanaticism and oppression of classical Judaism. After visiting Bolshevik Russia in 1920, Bertrand Russell wrote to Lady Ottoline Morrell: "Bolshevism is a closed tyrannical bureaucracy, with a spy system more elaborate and terrible than the Tsar's, and an aristocracy as insolent and unfeeling, composed of Americanised Jews. No vestige of liberty remains, in thought or speech or action." (The Autobiography of Bertrand Russell, paperback ed. 354)

Since World War One, the United States and England have been controlled by this IIluminati conspiracy. New York bankers financed the Bolshevik Revolution (1917) and transferred Trotsky and 270 Jewish revolutionaries to Russia to carry it out. (See Antony Sutton's Wall Street and the Bolshevik Revolution," http://reformed-theology.org/html/books/bolshevik_revolution/). They had England conquer Palestine for the Zionists at the same time.

As a result, here is the current state of American democracy:

Senate Majority leader Tom Daschle says Congress doesn't want to "rubber stamp" Bush's invasion of Iraq but "doesn't want to be uncooperative either." Senator Robert Byrd, made of sterner stuff, says his belief in the American Constitution will prevent him from voting for Bush's war resolution. "But I am finding that the Constitution is irrelevant to people in this administration." (Charleston Gazette, Sept. 21.)

Perhaps Senator Daschle is afraid of AIPAC, the powerful Zionist lobby that recently defeated Congresswoman Cynthia McKinney. In his 1985 book, "They Dare to Speak Out" Paul Findley, an Illinois Congressman who was defeated by AIPAC after serving 22 years writes: "It is no overstatement to say that AIPAC has effectively gained control of Capitol Hill's action on Middle East policy.... AIPAC means powerraw intimidating power."(25)

George W. Bush, a member of an illuminati family, as well as a creature of big oil, needs little incentive to do Israel's bidding. Nevertheless, Lyndon Larouche has amassed evidence of a cadre of Zionist agents at the highest levels of the US government who control policy much like Communist agents controlled FDR .( http://larouchein2004.net/pdfs/020911pollard.pdf) See also Michael Hoffman "The Wolf of the Whitehouse." (http://www.hoffman-info.com/inferno.html)

This Zionist network, which includes Richard Perle and David Wolfowitz, pressed Bill Clinton to invade Iraq in 1998. When he resisted, they may have paralysed his administration with the Lewinsky scandal. Similarly, Sherman Skolnick believes the Mossad is blackmailing Bush with pictures of a homosexual nature. (http://www.skolnicksreport.com/ootar16.html)

In his 1995 book, "The Other Side of Deception: A Rogue Agent Exposes the Mossad's Secret Agenda" Victor Ostrovsky asked his superiors why they were trying to instigate a war between the US and Iraq. The reply was that Israel does not have the manpower and aircraft carriers to do the job. As you know, five young Mossad agents were arrested doing high-fives Sept. 11 in a parking lot across the river from the WTC where they were "documenting" the "terrorist" attack with video cameras. (http://abcnews.go.com/sections/2020/DailyNews/2020_whitevan_020621.html)

In a speech at Harvard last week, the president Lawrence Summer, a Jew, lamented the rising tide of anti-Semitism. He attributed this to "prejudice" and says he thought "the right of the Jewish state to exist" had been decided. (http://www.frontpagemag.com/Articles/ReadArticle.asp?ID=3299)

It is curious that while Palestinians are being dispossessed and persecuted, Summers thinks "Israel's right to exist" is the issue. According to Israeli commentator Uri Avnery, Arafat accepted Israel's right to exist 28 years ago but Ariel Sharon "wants a greater Israel, the extension of the settlements and eventually the elimination of the Palestinian presence west of the Jordan." (http://www.mediamonitors.net/uri88.html)

The hoisting of an Israeli flag above the ruins of Yasser Arafat's Ramallah compound tells the story. Many Israelis feel just as helpless as we do. In an article in Ha'aretz, Yoel Marcus writes of Ariel Sharon, "Our democracy has been commandeered by one man." (http://www.haaretzdaily.com/hasen/pages/ShArt.jhtml?itemNo=210556&)

Curious how Lawrence Summers refers to opposition to the Zionist agenda as "prejudice." Anger over Zionist control of the US government, its muzzling of education and the media, and possible involvement in Sept. 11 is hardly what I would call "prejudice." For generations Jews have dehumanized other people by denying their legitimate grievances. In Shahak's words, "an enslaved peasant [who rebels] is transformed into a racist monster if Jews profited from his state of slavery and exploitation." (73)

No people should be tarred by the actions of a few. Most Jews (including Israelis) are themselves victims of the Illuminati Zionist conspiracy. Yitzak Rabin was murdered because of his sincere desire to make peace. I believe people are individuals and should be judged as such.

Nonetheless Jews must confront the reasons for anti Semitism or else it will spread. We must confront Jews (and non-Jews) who have become bailiffs in the New World Order, and join our neighbors in restoring democracy, freedom and truth to our beleaguered planet.

 

[Avatar4321]

So American's are investing in Israel to help fulfill the prophecies ?

Of course not, We are investing in Israel because its one of the few allies we have in a reigion of psycho terrorists or atleast it was.

The fact that it also fulfilled prophecy is just the reason most Evangelicals support Israel as well.

 

[dilloduck]

http://www.rense.com/general29/reasses.htm
Christians Should Reassess
Support for Israel
Zionism, Anti Semitism and
American Democracy
By Henry Makow, PhD
9-24-2

Christians who believe Israel represents an outpost of Western Civilization might benefit from a book entitled "Jewish History, Jewish Religion" (1994) by Israel Shahak, a Professor Emeritus at Hebrew University.

Shahak escaped from a Nazi concentration camp and later served in the Israeli army. He is an organic chemist who combines a research scientist's objectivity with a humanist's commitment to universal ideals.

It appears that Judaism made a mistake when it rejected Christ's gospel of Love. As a consequence, Judaism may have become a primitive and possibly dangerous anachronism in the 21st Century. According to Shahak, Judaism is a xenophobic totalitarian belief system that has morphed into a fanatical Zionist ideology that now threatens the whole world. I must admit that, even as an assimilated Jew, reading this book was like taking cod liver oil, not pleasant.

Shahak writes:


1) The Talmud, which consists of rabbinical interpretations of the law, treats Christ and Christians with contempt. Unlike the Koran, which regards Christ as a great prophet, the Talmud contains "very offensive precepts and statements directed specifically against Christianity. For example, in addition to a series of scurrilous sexual allegations against Jesus, the Talmud states that his punishment in hell is to be immersed in boiling excrement. . . Jews are instructed to burn, publicly if possible, any copy of the New Testament that comes into their hands." (p. 21)


2) The Talmud treats non-Jews as sub human and directs Jews to discriminate against them. For example, the concept of adultery "does not apply to intercourse between a Jewish man and a gentile woman; rather, the Talmud equates such intercourse to the sin of bestiality." (87) Robbery (with violence) is strictly forbidden if the victim is Jewish, but is permitted if the victim is Gentile, "when they are under our rule." "The whole [rabbinical] debate is concerned only with the relative powers of Jews and gentiles rather than with universal considerations of justice and humanity, " Shahak writes. "This may be why so few rabbis have protested over the robbery of Palestinian property in Israel." (90)


3) Shahak disputes whether Judaism is in fact monotheistic: "In many if not most of the books of the Old Testament, the existence and powers of 'other Gods' are clearly acknowledged, but Yahweh (Jehovah) is the most powerful of his rivals, and forbids his people to worship them." The decay of monotheism came about through the spread of Jewish mysticism (the cabbala), which is now dominant and includes many prayers and actions designed to propitiate Satan. (32-33)


4) The Old Testament does not have the same place in Judaism as the New Testament has for Christianity. Most biblical verses are reinterpreted by the Talmud in a sense that is distinct and quite contrary to their literal meaning. For example, the famous verse 'thy shall love thy fellow as thyself' (Leviticus 19:18) is understood as an injunction to love one's fellow Jew not any fellow man. (37)

According to Shahak, classical Judaism is not so much a religion as a tyrannical system of social control administered by rabbis. Ordinary Jews were forced to obey a labyrinth of capricious laws on pain of fines, beatings or even murder, administered by the non-Jewish aristocracy that would get a share of the fines.

Aristocrats and the Jewish elite had other common interests. Throughout the middle ages, Jews served as middlemen, or bailiffs administering the oppression of the peasants by Gentile kings and nobles. Often the king would give Jews the concession to manage his holdings. Without condoning pogroms or the holocaust, this and the above-mentioned teachings are probably the real causes of anti Semitism.

The tyranny of aristocrats and rabbis was broken by the Enlightenment, which gave rise to the nation state, the middle class, democracy and the rule of reason. Jews and non-Jews alike were liberated. The New World Order represents a kind of neo feudalism, an attempt to restore the old order. Aristocrats and their moneylenders, organized in secret societies like the Freemasons (who believe in the cabbala) make up the Illuminati. It also includes dynastic families, which control large cartels in partnership with the moneylenders. For more than a hundred years, these people have worked behind the scenes to destroy the four pillars of Western Civilization: The nation-state, Christianity, democracy and the family.

Communist Russia and Israel are both Illuminati states, created to foster oligarchic world government. Israel is intended to be the seat of world government/religion. The Star of David is also a Masonic symbol.

In Communism, the sons of rabbis built a new worldly religion that mirrored the fanaticism and oppression of classical Judaism. After visiting Bolshevik Russia in 1920, Bertrand Russell wrote to Lady Ottoline Morrell: "Bolshevism is a closed tyrannical bureaucracy, with a spy system more elaborate and terrible than the Tsar's, and an aristocracy as insolent and unfeeling, composed of Americanised Jews. No vestige of liberty remains, in thought or speech or action." (The Autobiography of Bertrand Russell, paperback ed. 354)

Since World War One, the United States and England have been controlled by this IIluminati conspiracy. New York bankers financed the Bolshevik Revolution (1917) and transferred Trotsky and 270 Jewish revolutionaries to Russia to carry it out. (See Antony Sutton's Wall Street and the Bolshevik Revolution," http://reformed-theology.org/html/books/bolshevik_revolution/). They had England conquer Palestine for the Zionists at the same time.

As a result, here is the current state of American democracy:

Senate Majority leader Tom Daschle says Congress doesn't want to "rubber stamp" Bush's invasion of Iraq but "doesn't want to be uncooperative either." Senator Robert Byrd, made of sterner stuff, says his belief in the American Constitution will prevent him from voting for Bush's war resolution. "But I am finding that the Constitution is irrelevant to people in this administration." (Charleston Gazette, Sept. 21.)

Perhaps Senator Daschle is afraid of AIPAC, the powerful Zionist lobby that recently defeated Congresswoman Cynthia McKinney. In his 1985 book, "They Dare to Speak Out" Paul Findley, an Illinois Congressman who was defeated by AIPAC after serving 22 years writes: "It is no overstatement to say that AIPAC has effectively gained control of Capitol Hill's action on Middle East policy.... AIPAC means powerraw intimidating power."(25)

George W. Bush, a member of an illuminati family, as well as a creature of big oil, needs little incentive to do Israel's bidding. Nevertheless, Lyndon Larouche has amassed evidence of a cadre of Zionist agents at the highest levels of the US government who control policy much like Communist agents controlled FDR .( http://larouchein2004.net/pdfs/020911pollard.pdf) See also Michael Hoffman "The Wolf of the Whitehouse." (http://www.hoffman-info.com/inferno.html)

This Zionist network, which includes Richard Perle and David Wolfowitz, pressed Bill Clinton to invade Iraq in 1998. When he resisted, they may have paralysed his administration with the Lewinsky scandal. Similarly, Sherman Skolnick believes the Mossad is blackmailing Bush with pictures of a homosexual nature. (http://www.skolnicksreport.com/ootar16.html)

In his 1995 book, "The Other Side of Deception: A Rogue Agent Exposes the Mossad's Secret Agenda" Victor Ostrovsky asked his superiors why they were trying to instigate a war between the US and Iraq. The reply was that Israel does not have the manpower and aircraft carriers to do the job. As you know, five young Mossad agents were arrested doing high-fives Sept. 11 in a parking lot across the river from the WTC where they were "documenting" the "terrorist" attack with video cameras. (http://abcnews.go.com/sections/2020/DailyNews/2020_whitevan_020621.html)

In a speech at Harvard last week, the president Lawrence Summer, a Jew, lamented the rising tide of anti-Semitism. He attributed this to "prejudice" and says he thought "the right of the Jewish state to exist" had been decided. (http://www.frontpagemag.com/Articles/ReadArticle.asp?ID=3299)

It is curious that while Palestinians are being dispossessed and persecuted, Summers thinks "Israel's right to exist" is the issue. According to Israeli commentator Uri Avnery, Arafat accepted Israel's right to exist 28 years ago but Ariel Sharon "wants a greater Israel, the extension of the settlements and eventually the elimination of the Palestinian presence west of the Jordan." (http://www.mediamonitors.net/uri88.html)

The hoisting of an Israeli flag above the ruins of Yasser Arafat's Ramallah compound tells the story. Many Israelis feel just as helpless as we do. In an article in Ha'aretz, Yoel Marcus writes of Ariel Sharon, "Our democracy has been commandeered by one man." (http://www.haaretzdaily.com/hasen/pages/ShArt.jhtml?itemNo=210556&)

Curious how Lawrence Summers refers to opposition to the Zionist agenda as "prejudice." Anger over Zionist control of the US government, its muzzling of education and the media, and possible involvement in Sept. 11 is hardly what I would call "prejudice." For generations Jews have dehumanized other people by denying their legitimate grievances. In Shahak's words, "an enslaved peasant [who rebels] is transformed into a racist monster if Jews profited from his state of slavery and exploitation." (73)

No people should be tarred by the actions of a few. Most Jews (including Israelis) are themselves victims of the Illuminati Zionist conspiracy. Yitzak Rabin was murdered because of his sincere desire to make peace. I believe people are individuals and should be judged as such.

Nonetheless Jews must confront the reasons for anti Semitism or else it will spread. We must confront Jews (and non-Jews) who have become bailiffs in the New World Order, and join our neighbors in restoring democracy, freedom and truth to our beleaguered planet.

Nonetheless Jews must confront the reasons for anti Semitism or else it will spread

Ain't gonna to happen--they are without sin.

 

[jillian]

Nonetheless Jews must confront the reasons for anti Semitism or else it will spread

Ain't gonna to happen--they are without sin.

No offense, my friend but...

Should a battered woman confront the reasons her abusive spouse is abusive?

You're finding all kinds of ways to excuse some pretty hateful stuff.

 

[rtwngAvngr]

No offense, my friend but...

Should a battered woman confront the reasons her abusive spouse is abusive?

You're finding all kinds of ways to excuse some pretty hateful stuff.

Go somewhere else and be an idiotic liar.

 

[rtwngAvngr]

http://www.christianzionism.org/churchesN.asp


Throughout history some Christians have tried to use the Bible to justify violence: for the Crusades, for Anti-Semitism, and for slavery. There are many examples of these misguided Biblical exegesis. One specfic example is Thorten Stringfellow's treatise to justify slavery. The church has been too slow to respond to these misuses of the Bible, and these were black periods in the history of the church.

Now Christian Zionists are using the Bible to again justify violence. Although the motives are couched in terms of compassion toward the Jewish people, and supporting alleged Biblical prophesies, the political agenda of territorial expansion advocated by Christian Zionists results in grave violence and injustices toward the Palestinians. For some time, individuals, and theologians have spoken out against Christian Zionism. In the past few years, conservative to liberal denominations are now taking official positions condeming and questioning this theology.
Denomination Date Body Title, quote, and link to resolution or postion
Lutheran Church, Missouri Synod April 2004 Commission on Theology and Church Relations A Lutheran Response to the "Left Behind Series"
"The clear witness of the New Testament is that the person of Jesus Christ is the interpretive key to the Old Testament, and indeed to all of Scripture." MORE…
Presbyterian Church USA July 2004 General Assembly (national) On Confronting Christian Zionism
"Christian Zionism promotes a theology that justifies grievious violations of basic rights of people who are also made in the image of God, and is contrary to the gospel of Jesus Christ." MORE…
Reformed Church in America June 2004 Annual Synod (national) Christian Zionism: A Historical Analysis and Critique
"Jesus, picking up seminal themes from the Hebrew scriptures, preached and lived a message of reconciliation… " MORE…
United Church of Christ July 2003 General Synod (national) An Alternative Voice to Christian Zionism
"We believe that the tenets of Christian Zionism neither reflect the intention of the teachings of Jesus and the prophets, nor promote peace in the Middle East, and respectfully recommend …and alternative voice to this theology." MORE…
Mennonite Church USA July 2005 MCC Peace Office Newsletter Christian Zionism and Peace in the Holy Land
"A widespread but erroneous belief is that Christain Zionists…read Daniel and Revelation literally. They do not. No Christian Zionist applies a consistently literal interpretation to Revelation. No one has suggested that Jesus was really a lamb." MORE…
Evangelical Lutheran Church in America June 2005 Chicago Metropolitan Synod Resolution to Encourage the Study of Christian Zionism
"…the movement of Christian Zionism based on these biblical interpretations seeks to influence U.S. policy toward Israel in a manner that would arguably facilitate mistreatment of Palestinians, continued occupation of the land, opposition to a two-state solution, and exclusive Israeli control of Jerusalem…"MORE…
United Methodist Church June 2005 IL Conference On Unwrapping the Rapture
"…every …household should give prayerful consideration as to how God will actually judge us for our silence about and complicity in the crushing of the Palestinian people…" MORE…
Episcopal Church November 2004 Diocese of Chicago Confronting Christian Zionism
"A partial response to Christian Zionism would be to say that we read Scripture in light of [Jesus'] two great commandments - to love God and our neighbor." MORE…