Jesus was a commie...

[Ravi]

No

Utah?
England?

There are actually quite a few. I think Tony Blair is one.

 

[Diuretic]

Because Christians believe in taking personal responsibility for the poor. They don't foist it on the government then pat themselves on the back for a job well done.

But isn't that substituting private charity for a welfare system?

 

[Ravi]

Because Christians believe in taking personal responsibility for the poor. They don't foist it on the government then pat themselves on the back for a job well done.

We are the government.

 

[AllieBaba]

by sheer volume alone.. not to mention, again, as long as the reciever fits the accepted criteria. Shall I post links to news sources where christian cherity organizations refused to play ball with someone who is gay or of the "wrong" faith? charity for the sake of perpetuating chritianity is probably EXACTLY what ole jebus was talking about!

dingdong.

Refusing to pay ball with and refusing to give to charity are two vastly different things.

And it's not sheer volume. Christians give more per head. But of course you would sneer.

 

[Diuretic]

Interesting that charity is so important in Islam as well. Could it be that religious people are naturally more charitable or are they simply complying with the dictates of their religion?

 

[AllieBaba]

Let's compare the way Islam treats women...compared to Jesus, who stopped a mob from stoning a woman, and who appeared to women before appearing to the disciples after his resurrection.

Yeah, they're remarkably alike!

Additionally, Jesus said repeatedly that we don't attain heaven by works. He told us to love each other as ourselves, and said that if we were saved we would desire to do the right thing by others. But he also said that wasn't the way we got to heaven, and James said that people who claim to be saved but who aren't charitable, who don't try to behave in a Christian manner, probably aren't saved to begin with.

Because all the works in the world won't get an unsaved person to heaven.

In addition, we are encouraged to give anonymously.

 

[Diuretic]

Let's compare the way Islam treats women...compared to Jesus, who stopped a mob from stoning a woman, and who appeared to women before appearing to the disciples after his resurrection.

Yeah, they're remarkably alike!

Additionally, Jesus said repeatedly that we don't attain heaven by works. He told us to love each other as ourselves, and said that if we were saved we would desire to do the right thing by others. But he also said that wasn't the way we got to heaven, and James said that people who claim to be saved but who aren't charitable, who don't try to behave in a Christian manner, probably aren't saved to begin with.

Because all the works in the world won't get an unsaved person to heaven.

In addition, we are encouraged to give anonymously.

I seem to have pushed a button and started a conditioned response.

 

[Diuretic]

Anyway, AB, is religious charity a viable substitute for a welfare programme?

 

[AllieBaba]

It worked pretty well before.

 

[Diuretic]

It worked pretty well before.

When?

 

[AllieBaba]

Before the onset of welfare.

 

[Toro]

It's a little more complicated than it appears. For one things, socialists are anti-religion. Which explains why there aren't many Christian socialists. They despise religion, particularly Christianity, because Christianity focuses on the individual...individual responsibility, individual relationship with God, and the uniqueness and sanctity of each individual life. Doesn't sound like anything a good socialist would swallow. In addition, Jesus admonished his followers to treat everyone with love. I haven't seen many socialists that went THAT far.

That's true, to some extent. But in many countries, the people who were most prominent in implementing and promoting socialist ideas were preachers. Liberation theology - very left-wing socialism - is actively promoted by many in the Catholic Church in Latin America.

 

[Diuretic]

Before the onset of welfare.

Where?

 

[Diuretic]

That's true, to some extent. But in many countries, the people who were most prominent in implementing and promoting socialist ideas were preachers. Liberation theology - very left-wing socialism - is actively promoted by many in the Catholic Church in Latin America.

Liberation theology uses Marxist methods of societal analysis. I believe the Vatican has cracked down on it in South America.

 

[AllieBaba]

That's true, to some extent. But in many countries, the people who were most prominent in implementing and promoting socialist ideas were preachers. Liberation theology - very left-wing socialism - is actively promoted by many in the Catholic Church in Latin America.

People have used the pulpit frequently throughout history to promote non-Christian politics.

 

[AllieBaba]

Where?

Are you high?

 

[Diuretic]

Are you high?

No, only 6'1", that's not high.

You responded, "before the onset of welfare". My question is, where? In which country?

 

[AllieBaba]

The country we're discussing. The US.

 

[Diuretic]

The country we're discussing. The US.

Okay, then I need to ask a question. When did the welfare state appear in the US?

 

[Ravi]

Okay, then I need to ask a question. When did the welfare state appear in the US?

Not sure what a welfare state means to you but I do know that poverty rates have fallen in the US from roughly 22% in 1959 to 12.7% in 1998. Somewhere in that time period -- the sixties, I believe -- there was a big push to end poverty in America by the Democrats, Bobby Kennedy comes to mind, and I think that is when they started giving aid to families that were under a certain income level.

It was even worse during the depression, something like 40% of Americans were living in poverty.

Not sure what Allie is talking about, how it was better before.