Jesus was a commie...

[eots]

jezuus iz my homeboy..he wuz way cool..cuz he died for our sins..he died for our sins.. then returned..came back danced around and said some cool shit... then ..went up to heaven ..thats so cool..jezuus was... way cool

 

[jillian]

What other result do you see if the fundamental differences between the followers of Jesus and Judaism cannot be bridged? Christians believe that Jesus was the Son of God and the Messiah -Jews don't. Jews believe that Jesus was a lesser prophet, a mortal and not the Messiah -Christians don't. That is a pretty darn HUGE gap there for which there is no compromise. It could only result in a new religion. Whether Jew or Christian, we have to believe that God knew that Jesus' message would definitely result in a new religion.

Actually, the gap is larger than that. The entire concept of a messiah is different in judaism than in christianity. Christians see the messiah as a spiritual savior. Jews see him as a messianic king of the line of David who will bring with him a thousand years of peace (along with some physical resurrection stuff, but you get the drift).

 

[jillian]

Actually, the gap is larger than that. The entire concept of a messiah is different in judaism than in christianity. Christians see the messiah as a spiritual savior. Jews see him as a messianic king of the line of David who will bring with him a thousand years of peace (along with some physical resurrection stuff, but you get the drift).

You understand, though, that the deification of Jesus really came way after, right? And Constantine made sure the Gospels which were picked to comprise the New Testament all deified him, rather than dealing more with his human qualities. And there didn't have to be a new religion, that happened as well because Constantine needed something to unite both the pagan and jewish christians under his rule.

The political story of Christ is at least as important as the religious story of Christ, IMO.

 

[Dr Grump]

What a hoot. Jesus, who said that if a man divorces his wife and marries another woman, that man is guilty of adultery would be insisting that it is a "right" for a woman to kill her unwanted, unborn child? Give me a break.

Jesus' teachings did not involve changing secular law. It involved personal responsibility and the exercise of free will in a way that was pleasing to God and in accordance with God's Law as given to Moses -the Ten Commandments. What could possibly be pleasing to God about a woman killing her unwanted, unborn child?

Jesus was NOT a social liberal. He was a conservative Jew who REPEATEDLY said that the Ten Commandments were God's immutable law, repeatedly said that the violation of those laws offended God. Jesus was a conservative Jew (with the exception regarding salvation being available to all) who made it pretty clear that the Pharisees had deviated from the practice of Judaism as God intended it to be. Now if you can find ANY text that shows Judaism was once a "if it feels good, do it" religion that Jesus wanted to see people return to -I'd like to read that. But I'd be happy to show you the texts that show when Jews engaged in "if it feels good, do it" attitude, God got very unhappy and made no bones about it.

For a start re abortion - don't put 21st century values on Jesus's time. I doubt very much there were too many abortions around then, and you have no idea regarding his thoughts on the matter.

You mistake liberals for "feel good, do it" types. They are more "live and let live" types as opposed to "do as we say" types. I know the company I prefer....:O)

 

[Ravi]

Jesus said it was the responsibility of INDIVIDUALS, not some faceless government that merely taxed it from people who had no say in where the money went. Individual responsibility can never be replaced by a faceless bureaucracy and have it "count" with God.

Is that why you help the poor, if you do, because it "counts" with God? Pretty lame reasoning. I would imagine if "God" wanted the poor to be helped he'd prefer the most expedient way, not a bunch of whiners looking to score brownie points.

 

[Ravi]

Don't study much history, do you.

Can you demonstrate that your way is more effective in helping the poor...?

 

[LOki]

Christianity focuses on the individual...individual responsibility, individual relationship with God, and the uniqueness and sanctity of each individual life.

If welfare proponents were more Christian, we wouldn't need welfare.

Because Christians believe in taking personal responsibility for the poor. They don't foist it on the government then pat themselves on the back for a job well done.

Perhaps if the poor were more Christian, we wouldn't need welfare.

 

[midcan5]

Jesus was closer to being a socialist.

"Think about it: A conservative Christian is a contradiction in terms. Christ wasn't a conservative. He fed the hungry simply because they were hungry. He didn't require that they go to work first. He healed the sick, simply because they were sick. He didn't push them into an insurance company, or let the drug companies gouge them on prices. Jesus was a liberal; Herod was the conservative." Rev. Jesse Jackson

 

[Shogun]

Refusing to pay ball with and refusing to give to charity are two vastly different things.

And it's not sheer volume. Christians give more per head. But of course you would sneer.

Vastly different in YOUR opinion. Again, how many examples of chistian charities filtering out the non-christians and gays do you think I can dig up with a quick goole search?


And yes, SHEER volume. Say, didn't you just say something stupid about "Christians don't hoist poverty onto the government?


One in 6 West Virginians is on food stamps
http://dailymail.com/News/statenews/200803260077

Care to venture a guess as to which dogma junky philosophy dominates West Virginia?

 

[Shogun]

Let's compare the way Islam treats women...compared to Jesus, who stopped a mob from stoning a woman, and who appeared to women before appearing to the disciples after his resurrection.

Yeah, they're remarkably alike!

during the total silence in which he allowed his church to flourish by male domination and subjugation of women from his death until NOW are you really sure you want to make such a stupid statement?


Do you want to compare islamic culture and treatment of women in a vacuum of can we take a look at christianity too in the same light as your demonizing finger?

 

[Shogun]

Jesus would never have been a communist or a socialist. Let's put aside the harsh reality that communism has its own built-in fatal flaw that insures its demise. Communist doctrine clearly states it is the best interests of the collective that counts -even at the expense of the individual and that individualism is to be vigorously discouraged. In practice and theory, communism is fit only for an ant colony, but not human beings. As opposed to our own founders who said government exists to serve the will of the people and not the other way around, communist doctrine says the individual exists to serve the collective, that the individual is a fungible cog in the wheel of government and government does not exist to serve the individual but only what it deems to be the best interests of the collective.

But that isn't true of Christianity at any time. Christianity is about the individual's use of his free will to do the right thing by his fellow man and his relationship with God -not a government's coercion of that individual and somehow he gets bonus points if the government he lives under coercively taxes that person and then spends it in a way God approves. The individual will ONLY be judged for his own actions -not whether he lived under the "right" kind of government or not. There are no "brownie" points in heaven for the person who lived under communism and that government used the coercion of taxation to provide for the poor while the individual chose to do nothing, figuring government took enough anyway. His choice was removed by that government.

Then you add in the social agenda of socialists and communists and I just don't see Jesus becoming a political animal hot for either system. Both socialists and communists have a very clear humanist agenda that believes the highest authority is man, therefore whatever man decides is in his own best interests is all that counts. Do you picture Jesus standing on the steps of the Supreme Court building holding a sign that says women have a right to kill their unwanted, unborn children? How about insisting that embryonic stem cell research is the wave of the future and hey, it isn't as if God considers those embryos to be REAL. How about arguing for the legalization of street drugs, prostitution or campaigning for gay marriage?

Since Jesus said a man who divorces his wife and marries another is guilty of adultery -I just don't see Jesus insisting marriage must now be redefined to mean any two people who want to cohabitate. In fact, I don't see Jesus even supporting no-fault divorce.

Jesus was not a social revolutionary, His teachings clearly show He was a conservative Jews in nearly all things except whether non-Jews could attain salvation. He repeatedly said those who chose salvation over damnation should follow God's Commandments and that just doesn't sound like He was encouraging a political overhaul so that a faceless government could do that for the individual and the individual need not worry about it again.

Jesus' intent was not to remake society as He thought it should be and not one of his teachings were about what kind of government people should live under as soon as they got the chance. His was a message for the individual regarding using his free will to choose salvation or choose damnation.

I was going to highlight some of the goofier statements in that post but i'll just focus on one:

Jesus was not a social revolutionary, His teachings clearly show He was a conservative Jews in nearly all things except whether non-Jews could attain salvation.





yea.. NOTHING says "conservative jew" quite like rebelling against the entire fucking culture enough to cause rome to KILL him at the request of... say it with me... CONSERVATIVE JEWS.


and no, Jillian, calm down.. I'm not demonizing jews here. I'm clarifying the mind-numbingly retarded notion that jebus was a conservative among his own society. Half the fucking parables are told at the expense of jewish traditional philosophical sects. This is just another example of an individual finding what he wants to hear in scripture.

 

[Shogun]

Also.. it was asked if we see jebus supporting abortion clinisc and yadda yadda yadda?


well, given his relationship to the god of the old testement who had NO PROBLEM killing off an entire generation of Egyptian babies for the sake of letting Moses save some face in Egypt....

yes.

 

[jillian]

I was going to highlight some of the goofier statements in that post but i'll just focus on one:

Jesus was not a social revolutionary, His teachings clearly show He was a conservative Jews in nearly all things except whether non-Jews could attain salvation.





yea.. NOTHING says "conservative jew" quite like rebelling against the entire fucking culture enough to cause rome to KILL him at the request of... say it with me... CONSERVATIVE JEWS.


and no, Jillian, calm down.. I'm not demonizing jews here. I'm clarifying the mind-numbingly retarded notion that jebus was a conservative among his own society. Half the fucking parables are told at the expense of jewish traditional philosophical sects. This is just another example of an individual finding what he wants to hear in scripture.

Rome killed him on their own... but I absolutely agree that he was a radical and the San Hedrin couldn't wait to get rid of him.

 

[Shogun]

Rome killed him on their own... but I absolutely agree that he was a radical and the San Hedrin couldn't wait to get rid of him.

oh yes rome killed him...


but it's not like the status quo of hebrew society at the time were contemplating any jail breaks any time soon. To suggest that Jebus wasn't a revolutionary is just plain goofy. I'd call him Traditional rather than Conservative. Claiming to be the fucking messiah sure isn't the conservative thing to do.

 

[jillian]

oh yes rome killed him...


but it's not like the status quo of hebrew society at the time were contemplating any jail breaks any time soon. To suggest that Jebus wasn't a revolutionary is just plain goofy. I'd call him Traditional rather than Conservative. Claiming to be the fucking messiah sure isn't the conservative thing to do.

I used the word radical... you think that's different from revolutionary? Or you just couldn't wait to write the other stuff?

As for claiming to be the Messiah, I've never been convinced that HE did that or if it was his disciples.

 

[AllieBaba]

Perhaps if the poor were more Christian, we wouldn't need welfare.

Amen to that. So you can understand the importance of missionaries and evangelising.

 

[AllieBaba]

Jesus labeled himself as the son of God through his language. By calling himself the Son he was referring directly back to OT references to the Messiah. By saying "I am," he named himself.

And then of course there's the whole resurrection thing, the breaking of the temple, and the fact that God actually said he was his son and in him he was well pleased.

 

[Shogun]

I used the word radical... you think that's different from revolutionary? Or you just couldn't wait to write the other stuff?

As for claiming to be the Messiah, I've never been convinced that HE did that or if it was his disciples.

My money says that, regardless of the truth of his personal philosophy, his message has been given the same treatment as Washington's cherry tree for the sake of the movement that bears his name. Regardless if it were the disciples or the christian church that gathered together the texts of the accepted bible, he became a tool the day his life became canonized.

meh.. radical.. revolutionary.. Id put different meanings on each word but probably not ones that are significant enough to make a tangent about it. You know how I like to hear myself type.

 

[Shogun]

Amen to that. So you can understand the importance of missionaries and evangelising.

I guess West Virginia needs more missionaries, eh?

 

[Shogun]

Jesus labeled himself as the son of God through his language. By calling himself the Son he was referring directly back to OT references to the Messiah. By saying "I am," he named himself.

And then of course there's the whole resurrection thing, the breaking of the temple, and the fact that God actually said he was his son and in him he was well pleased.

the FACT that god said he was pleased, eh?