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I am NOT for the Government Defining Marriage on anyone's Religious Beliefs, this is simply to Address those who Feel that Jesus was Pro-Gay or Pro-Gay Marriage...
“Have you not read that He who made them at the beginning ‘made them male and female,’ and said, ‘For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh’? So then, they are no longer two but one flesh. Therefore what God has joined together, let not man separate.” - Matthew 19:4-6.
Jesus is pretty damned Clear on what Marriage is...
---
What I am going to need from the "Jesus was not a Homophobe" Crowd here @ USMB is a couple of things...
Where Jesus Reverses the Consistent References of Sin and Abomination regarding Homosexuality throughout the Old and New Testaments.
"For this reason God gave them up to vile passions. For even their women exchanged the natural use for what is against nature. Likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust for one another, men with men committing what is shameful, and receiving in themselves the penalty of their error which was due."
—Romans 1:26-27 (NKJV)
"Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites, nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God."
—1 Corinthians 6:9-10 (NKJV)
"Knowing this: that the law is not made for a righteous person, but for the lawless and insubordinate, for the ungodly and for sinners, for the unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers, for fornicators, for sodomites, for kidnappers, for liars, for perjurers, and if there is any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine,"
—1 Timothy 1:9-10 (NKJV)
And that's not even touching Leviticus where Homosexuality is Spoken of Harsher than Beastiality.
Leviticus 18. The Holy Bible: King James Version.
21 And thou shalt not let any of thy seed pass through the fire to Molech, neither shalt thou profane the name of thy God: Lev. 20.1-5 I am the LORD.
22 Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination. Lev. 20.13
23 Neither shalt thou lie with any beast to defile thyself therewith: neither shall any woman stand before a beast to lie down thereto: it is confusion. Ex. 22.19 · Lev. 20.15, 16 · Deut. 27.21
24 ¶ Defile not ye yourselves in any of these things: for in all these the nations are defiled which I cast out before you:
---
^That is Moral Law... It makes no Reference in 18 to what you can and can't eat... That was Jewish Cerimonial Law so save that Line.
Jesus didn't come here to Condone Sin... And Homosexuals can't make an Assumption that the "Sin" and "Abomination" that Homosexuality is called 100% of the time it's Referenced in the Bible was somehow OK with Jesus because he told us not to Judge...
The one who conquers will have this heritage, and I will be his God and he will be my son. But as for the cowardly, the faithless, the detestable, as for murderers, the sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars, their portion will be in the lake that burns with fire and sulfur, which is the second death.” Revelation 21:7-8 ESV
Jesus was Clear... And we are not to Condone Sin nor Hate the Sinner but it is Absurd for Homosexuals to expect the Christian Church to Embrace what is so Clearly Sin in the Eyes of God, and what's more, to give it Sanction in Marriage.
I've given plenty of Reference... Now make the case that Jesus was Pro-Gay Marriage and that somehow when he was Referring to Man and Wife as God Designed it, he really meant whatever Coupling of Human Gender you please or that feels good to you.
I'll be here.
peace...
Into two pages and still not dealt with.
Jesus Defined Marriage for Christians...
Jesus was not Pro-Gay nor Pro-Gay Marriage.
He would have wanted Homosexuals to not Engage in the "Sin" and "Abomination" that is Consistently Referenced in both the Old and New Testaments and to Acknowledge that it in Fact is Sin if you are a Christian.
He would have wanted you to Marry as Defined by his Father and Repeated by him... Man and Woman.
Having Concluded the Obvious, none of this matters if you are not a Christian.
But don't Claim that Jesus would have Embraced Sin because it makes you Feel better about yourself and your Defiance of your Natural Design.
He would not have and there is ZERO Evidence to Counter that Conclusion.
Acknowledge that your Lifestyle is a Sin and go about stopping it or find another Religion.
It's really not that Difficult.
Just don't Lie about it.
Lying makes the Baby Jesus Cry.
peace...
Cute...
Doesn't Negate that Homosexual Coupling or Marriage is Incompatible with Christianity.
Take your Trolling to St. Elsewhere.
peace...
No, mal... You're wrong.
Sorry you can't handle that your logic is severely flawed and your OP is lame.
True Christians believe that Jesus died for ALL sinners.
"judge not lest ye be judged"
"You hypocrite, first take the plank out of your own eye..."
And this is where you are either Blinded by the Agenda or simply being Dishonest...
Jesus did NOT Embrace Sin.
Homosexuality is Sin 100% of the time it is Referenced in the New and Old.
Jesus Loved the Sinners and Hated Sin.
Jesus would not have Embraced Homosexuality or Homosexual Marriage instead, as he did with ALL Sinners, he would have Tried to lead them away from the Sin and Abomination.
Jesus did NOT and would NOT Embrace Sin.
Until you show me in the Bible where it says anything other than that about Homosexuality you are Wrong.
"...if my people who are called by my name humble themselves, and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, then I will hear from heaven and will forgive their sin and heal their land."
Saying that Christ would Condone or Embrace Sin and Abomination in his Father's Eyes is about as False Prophet as you can get.
If you Consider yourself a Christian, I would Think long and hard before continuing to Mislead others with that Lie.
I mean that Sincerely.
peace...
I am NOT for the Government Defining Marriage on anyone's Religious Beliefs, this is simply to Address those who Feel that Jesus was Pro-Gay or Pro-Gay Marriage...
Have you not read that He who made them at the beginning made them male and female, and said, For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh? So then, they are no longer two but one flesh. Therefore what God has joined together, let not man separate. - Matthew 19:4-6.
Jesus is pretty damned Clear on what Marriage is...
---
What I am going to need from the "Jesus was not a Homophobe" Crowd here @ USMB is a couple of things...
Where Jesus Reverses the Consistent References of Sin and Abomination regarding Homosexuality throughout the Old and New Testaments.
"For this reason God gave them up to vile passions. For even their women exchanged the natural use for what is against nature. Likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust for one another, men with men committing what is shameful, and receiving in themselves the penalty of their error which was due."
Romans 1:26-27 (NKJV)
"Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites, nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God."
1 Corinthians 6:9-10 (NKJV)
"Knowing this: that the law is not made for a righteous person, but for the lawless and insubordinate, for the ungodly and for sinners, for the unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers, for fornicators, for sodomites, for kidnappers, for liars, for perjurers, and if there is any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine,"
1 Timothy 1:9-10 (NKJV)
And that's not even touching Leviticus where Homosexuality is Spoken of Harsher than Beastiality.
Leviticus 18. The Holy Bible: King James Version.
21 And thou shalt not let any of thy seed pass through the fire to Molech, neither shalt thou profane the name of thy God: Lev. 20.1-5 I am the LORD.
22 Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination. Lev. 20.13
23 Neither shalt thou lie with any beast to defile thyself therewith: neither shall any woman stand before a beast to lie down thereto: it is confusion. Ex. 22.19 · Lev. 20.15, 16 · Deut. 27.21
24 ¶ Defile not ye yourselves in any of these things: for in all these the nations are defiled which I cast out before you:
---
^That is Moral Law... It makes no Reference in 18 to what you can and can't eat... That was Jewish Cerimonial Law so save that Line.
Jesus didn't come here to Condone Sin... And Homosexuals can't make an Assumption that the "Sin" and "Abomination" that Homosexuality is called 100% of the time it's Referenced in the Bible was somehow OK with Jesus because he told us not to Judge...
The one who conquers will have this heritage, and I will be his God and he will be my son. But as for the cowardly, the faithless, the detestable, as for murderers, the sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars, their portion will be in the lake that burns with fire and sulfur, which is the second death. Revelation 21:7-8 ESV
Jesus was Clear... And we are not to Condone Sin nor Hate the Sinner but it is Absurd for Homosexuals to expect the Christian Church to Embrace what is so Clearly Sin in the Eyes of God, and what's more, to give it Sanction in Marriage.
I've given plenty of Reference... Now make the case that Jesus was Pro-Gay Marriage and that somehow when he was Referring to Man and Wife as God Designed it, he really meant whatever Coupling of Human Gender you please or that feels good to you.
I'll be here.
peace...
Into two pages and still not dealt with.
Jesus Defined Marriage for Christians...
Jesus was not Pro-Gay nor Pro-Gay Marriage.
He would have wanted Homosexuals to not Engage in the "Sin" and "Abomination" that is Consistently Referenced in both the Old and New Testaments and to Acknowledge that it in Fact is Sin if you are a Christian.
He would have wanted you to Marry as Defined by his Father and Repeated by him... Man and Woman.
Having Concluded the Obvious, none of this matters if you are not a Christian.
But don't Claim that Jesus would have Embraced Sin because it makes you Feel better about yourself and your Defiance of your Natural Design.
He would not have and there is ZERO Evidence to Counter that Conclusion.
Acknowledge that your Lifestyle is a Sin and go about stopping it or find another Religion.
It's really not that Difficult.
Just don't Lie about it.
Lying makes the Baby Jesus Cry.
peace...
Your flawed logic makes baby Jesus cry.
Jesus was certainly not "pro-gay marriage" but so what? He wasn't especially anti either.
What makes one sin measure more or less than another? Jesus never mentioned "sin" in relation to all sorts of relationships and contracts including "marriage"... There are many things Christians do which Jesus didn't go out of his way to mention, however "sinful"...
No, he did not REVERSE the "abominations" of the Old Testament, but again so what? Jesus did not teach us to condemn our neighbors, so why do you go out of your way to do it here...?
Into two pages and still not dealt with.
Jesus Defined Marriage for Christians...
Jesus was not Pro-Gay nor Pro-Gay Marriage.
He would have wanted Homosexuals to not Engage in the "Sin" and "Abomination" that is Consistently Referenced in both the Old and New Testaments and to Acknowledge that it in Fact is Sin if you are a Christian.
He would have wanted you to Marry as Defined by his Father and Repeated by him... Man and Woman.
Having Concluded the Obvious, none of this matters if you are not a Christian.
But don't Claim that Jesus would have Embraced Sin because it makes you Feel better about yourself and your Defiance of your Natural Design.
He would not have and there is ZERO Evidence to Counter that Conclusion.
Acknowledge that your Lifestyle is a Sin and go about stopping it or find another Religion.
It's really not that Difficult.
Just don't Lie about it.
Lying makes the Baby Jesus Cry.
peace...
Your flawed logic makes baby Jesus cry.
Jesus was certainly not "pro-gay marriage" but so what? He wasn't especially anti either.
What makes one sin measure more or less than another? Jesus never mentioned "sin" in relation to all sorts of relationships and contracts including "marriage"... There are many things Christians do which Jesus didn't go out of his way to mention, however "sinful"...
No, he did not REVERSE the "abominations" of the Old Testament, but again so what? Jesus did not teach us to condemn our neighbors, so why do you go out of your way to do it here...?
Here's something for you to ponder. Romans and First Corinthians are written to Christians and both condemn homosexuality. The same Holy Spirit that wrote the Law, spoke through Jesus and spoke as Paul wrote it down. That's the belief of Christians.
Using Ravi's Failed "logic" any Sin or Abomination not Directly Referenced by God’s Son is no longer a Sin or Abomination…
And in FACT should be Embraced and put on Equal Footing with what Jesus Defined as Marriage according to his Father.
Pure Idiocy.
peace...
Speaking of dishonesty...........
American citizens are not required to live up to Christian standards, mal.
And gay citizens are citizens too!
Jesus would want you to love your neighbor as yourself and do unto others, etc...
Jesus wishes you would quit trying to measure your sins against those of your fellow man as demonstrated when He said, "let ye who is without sin cast the first stone" and all that jazz...yada yada, etcetera etcetera... God bless us everyone! lol
This Thread is about the Christian Church... Keep up Dopey.
peace...
Your flawed logic makes baby Jesus cry.
Jesus was certainly not "pro-gay marriage" but so what? He wasn't especially anti either.
What makes one sin measure more or less than another? Jesus never mentioned "sin" in relation to all sorts of relationships and contracts including "marriage"... There are many things Christians do which Jesus didn't go out of his way to mention, however "sinful"...
No, he did not REVERSE the "abominations" of the Old Testament, but again so what? Jesus did not teach us to condemn our neighbors, so why do you go out of your way to do it here...?
Here's something for you to ponder. Romans and First Corinthians are written to Christians and both condemn homosexuality. The same Holy Spirit that wrote the Law, spoke through Jesus and spoke as Paul wrote it down. That's the belief of Christians.
And? Why go out of your way to condemn one neighbor's sin over another?
Here's something for you to ponder. Romans and First Corinthians are written to Christians and both condemn homosexuality. The same Holy Spirit that wrote the Law, spoke through Jesus and spoke as Paul wrote it down. That's the belief of Christians.
And? Why go out of your way to condemn one neighbor's sin over another?
When did that become the issue?
You seem to acknowledge that homosexuality was a sin in the Bible. Correct?
And Christ wouldn't have condoned the sin. He would have said go and sin no more. He probably wouldn't have been behind a law putting a gov't or religious stamp of approval on the sin.
No, mal... You're wrong.Cute...
Doesn't Negate that Homosexual Coupling or Marriage is Incompatible with Christianity.
Take your Trolling to St. Elsewhere.
peace...
Sorry you can't handle that your logic is severely flawed and your OP is lame.
True Christians believe that Jesus died for ALL sinners.
"judge not lest ye be judged"
"You hypocrite, first take the plank out of your own eye..."
And this is where you are either Blinded by the Agenda or simply being Dishonest...
Jesus did NOT Embrace Sin.
Homosexuality is Sin 100% of the time it is Referenced in the New and Old.
Jesus Loved the Sinners and Hated Sin.
Jesus would not have Embraced Homosexuality or Homosexual Marriage instead, as he did with ALL Sinners, he would have Tried to lead them away from the Sin and Abomination.
Jesus did NOT and would NOT Embrace Sin.
Until you show me in the Bible where it says anything other than that about Homosexuality you are Wrong.
"...if my people who are called by my name humble themselves, and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, then I will hear from heaven and will forgive their sin and heal their land."
Saying that Christ would Condone or Embrace Sin and Abomination in his Father's Eyes is about as False Prophet as you can get.
If you Consider yourself a Christian, I would Think long and hard before continuing to Mislead others with that Lie.
I mean that Sincerely.
peace...
I am NOT for the Government Defining Marriage on anyone's Religious Beliefs, this is simply to Address those who Feel that Jesus was Pro-Gay or Pro-Gay Marriage...
Have you not read that He who made them at the beginning made them male and female, and said, For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh? So then, they are no longer two but one flesh. Therefore what God has joined together, let not man separate. - Matthew 19:4-6.
Jesus is pretty damned Clear on what Marriage is...
---
....
Seems pretty clear to me.
Using Ravi's Failed "logic" any Sin or Abomination not Directly Referenced by Gods Son is no longer a Sin or Abomination
And in FACT should be Embraced and put on Equal Footing with what Jesus Defined as Marriage according to his Father.
Pure Idiocy.
peace...
I probably shouldn't ask if he talked about marriage between man and dog, should I ....
Hey, I have no problem with gay marriage. If Newt has a right to keep getting married over and over, well ... suffice it to say that I have no problem with gays trying it out at least once.
But Christ was clear on the subject.
God Spoke Worse of Homosexuality than he did Beastiality in Leviticus under Moral Law.
Using Ravi's Dishonest Line, Beastiality is not only OK, you should be able to Marry your Dog...
Because Jesus didn't say you shouldn't or that Fucking Animals was even Wrong.
Why she and her Kind have to be so Fucking Dishonest is beyond me.
There is no Quarter for Homosexuality in Christianity.
Find another Religion.
peace...
The way i see it............
Christians KNOW what is in the Bible and they know what God / Jesus has to say about homosexuals. With all the proof, it really surprises me when non-believers just keep saying it's a lie. But in another way...they may be right about some of this.
Being a Christian, i cannot morally say to go ahead and let the gays marry, no problem. I can't say that because of my beliefs.
Non-Christians have the same problem. They are not going to say it's a sin to be gay. I understand why...it's the same problem i have.
We're to love our neighbors as ourselves. Our neighbors means EVERYONE...not just the people in the houses next to you. This is what we should all be doing. It would be hard because all of us are different. And we all have skeletons in our closets and sins we need to have forgiven. My sin could be that i drink too much (this is ONLY an example! Lol!) and my neighbors sin could be that they're gay. Which sin do you think would be worse in God's eyes?
There's no right answer...because they are both the same to God. My drinking sin will be judged by God the same way the gays will be judged. So why do we even fight about this issue? Like i said....being christian i will not back down on my beliefs. Just as i don't expect non-believers to back down on theirs. Let's leave the judgement of our sins up to God.
Either way, either sin will ONLY be forgiven if you wholly believe in God and accept the fact that Jesus came to earth and died for all our sins. So, a believer that prays to God to forgive their sin, they actually try to quit the sin (although most of us relapse quite often - we're human too), God will forgive them. So...........non-believing gays will not be forgiven.......believing gays will be forgiven IF they discontinue with their lifestyle. That doesn't mean having to STOP being gay, it means they will not live or continue the gay lifestyle (men with men, women with women).
My take on most gays is....they would NEVER give it up. That's their choice.
The way i see it............
Christians KNOW what is in the Bible and they know what God / Jesus has to say about homosexuals. With all the proof, it really surprises me when non-believers just keep saying it's a lie. But in another way...they may be right about some of this.
Being a Christian, i cannot morally say to go ahead and let the gays marry, no problem. I can't say that because of my beliefs.
Non-Christians have the same problem. They are not going to say it's a sin to be gay. I understand why...it's the same problem i have.
We're to love our neighbors as ourselves. Our neighbors means EVERYONE...not just the people in the houses next to you. This is what we should all be doing. It would be hard because all of us are different. And we all have skeletons in our closets and sins we need to have forgiven. My sin could be that i drink too much (this is ONLY an example! Lol!) and my neighbors sin could be that they're gay. Which sin do you think would be worse in God's eyes?
There's no right answer...because they are both the same to God. My drinking sin will be judged by God the same way the gays will be judged. So why do we even fight about this issue? Like i said....being christian i will not back down on my beliefs. Just as i don't expect non-believers to back down on theirs. Let's leave the judgement of our sins up to God.
Either way, either sin will ONLY be forgiven if you wholly believe in God and accept the fact that Jesus came to earth and died for all our sins. So, a believer that prays to God to forgive their sin, they actually try to quit the sin (although most of us relapse quite often - we're human too), God will forgive them. So...........non-believing gays will not be forgiven.......believing gays will be forgiven IF they discontinue with their lifestyle. That doesn't mean having to STOP being gay, it means they will not live or continue the gay lifestyle (men with men, women with women).
My take on most gays is....they would NEVER give it up. That's their choice.
Hmmm. So I'm not gay. I'm a Christian, albeit a rather unconventional one. I can easily forgive gays for simply being who they are.
Thus, I am more loving, tolerant, compassionate, understanding and forgiving than God.
Well, at least the interpretation of God I've read about from some of the people here.
Interesting.
Jesus called. He said to tell you all to quit putting words in his mouth and telling lies about what he did or did not say.