Jesus and the public option

[the rev]

When did Christ ever say to force your neighbor, at sword point if necessary, to help the poor?

Whatever happened to "thou shall not covet..."?

first, there is no sword point, unless there is a sword point that made me pay for the iraq war or the post office....or the big bank ceo's bonus and mega salary.... and i just don't see it in such a melodramatic way Dude....though i suppose i do understand the point you all are trying to make when the term sword point or gun point is used.

Wanting to help those of the least among us in our society is not coveting one iota, you misunderstand the term if you think it does....no?

coveting someone else's goods is desiring that new car that your neighbor has or desiring those new shoes your girlfriend has, or wanting that monstrous house that your boss owns, or wanting that hot beautiful wife of someone else.

Wanting to help the needy or sick get by is not coveting anything Dude... or Divecon...since you thanked him for the post?

Anyway...as a Christian, one is a Christian 100% of the time, in all that they do, they try to do good in every opportunity. And I personally never say to myself, i am doing good because of Christ or even mention his name or give him glory for my own good works or daily routine....this is something that is inbred in to my character, not something that can be dropped like a dime, or like a person switching hats....it is IN ME, to do good at every opportunity....and i see helping the needy with my tax monies as just one of those opportunities...and i am not even thinking about Jesus...not out loud, perhaps subconsciously? But i do NOT want one dime of my money spent on unnecessary wars and killing other people...NOT A DIME....but GUESS WHAT? It goes there...it is spent on killing others, and many innocent, collateral damage, others, and there is not a damn thing i can do about it because our congress's majority has voted to send money in that direction....

i still don;t see that as them holding a sword or gun to me, to make me pay for it....?

Care

Quit paying your taxes and do so defiantly....You'll eventually be held at the point of that sword.

What others did to violate the faith is irrelevant.

The top 2 percent get away with not paying their fair share all the time. No sword, no gun.

 

[B L Zeebub]

Jesus couldn't get elected.

Dear Del,
Yes he could.

Yours faithfully,

Gerry Manders.

no he couldnt, he would bother to run
and he wouldnt be willing to lie enough

Dear Dive,
That would not be a problem.
Your faithfully
Judas the spin docter

 

[Oddball]

The top 2 percent get away with not paying their fair share all the time. No sword, no gun.

Those doing the paying (your opinion as to what their "fair share" is nonwitstanding) aren't setting the policies and enforcing the tax laws, at gunpoint if necessary.

You can't be this obtuse by accident.

 

[Christopher]

You want to now bring up 'the church'? What, when you leave church, your supposed to forget what Christ wants you to do? You want to through down your cross and live like the people of this world soon as you step out those church doors? There are 2 words for that behavior: pseudo- christian.

show one scripture where Jesus said to have your government do anything
one where he says to petition Caesar to take care of the poor

Show me one scripture where he says not to use government. So therefore, he's neutral in the idea.

Your comparing our freely elected government to Caesar?

Here is one scripture from Jesus’ apostle, Paul in 1 Corinthians 9:7 (King James Translation). It does not discuss the government, however, it does clarify how we should give to others and makes it clear that it is not by being forced to pay taxes.

7 Every man according as he purposeth in his heart, so let him give; not grudgingly or of necessity: for God loveth a cheerful giver.

So, what percent of people pay their taxes out of “necessity? I think that includes everyone, unless they want to go to prison. The scriptures clearly teach we should giving willing and that true giving is when it is done without being compelled. Now, show where in the scriptures that it says we should force others to give.

God loves a cheerful giver, yet I've never seen tax day as a day for cheerfulness, have you?

 

[Care4all]

show one scripture where Jesus said to have your government do anything
one where he says to petition Caesar to take care of the poor

Show me one scripture where he says not to use government. So therefore, he's neutral in the idea.

Your comparing our freely elected government to Caesar?

Here is one scripture from Jesus’ apostle, Paul in 1 Corinthians 9:7 (King James Translation). It does not discuss the government, however, it does clarify how we should give to others and makes it clear that it is not by being forced to pay taxes.

7 Every man according as he purposeth in his heart, so let him give; not grudgingly or of necessity: for God loveth a cheerful giver.

So, what percent of people pay their taxes out of “necessity? I think that includes everyone, unless they want to go to prison. The scriptures clearly teach we should giving willing and that true giving is when it is done without being compelled. Now, show where in the scriptures that it says we should force others to give.

God loves a cheerful giver, yet I've never seen tax day as a day for cheerfulness, have you?

our lacking in cheerfulness could be our own FAILINGS though...you can't negate that....it could be us, acting just as the Pharisees, trying to get Jesus to give the A-OK to rebel against being taxed....their hearts were festering in their disgust of having to pay taxes....Jesus tried to nip that in the bud, right then and there...by asking whose head was on the coin....and to give unto Caesar what is his....

this was to release them from their anger, their festering inside from the unfairness of the roman gvt taxation....

a lesson for us could be, when this anger on taxation is released....this leaves opening for happiness or a cheerful heart to occur, which could not with the festering anger?

care

 

[Oddball]

Compulsion breeds resentment.

That's just the way it is.

 

[Care4all]

no denying that, and how hard it is, to overcome, as humans.

 

[Oddball]

Overcome?

Why not accept it as a fact of human nature and move on?

 

[Care4all]

Overcome?

Why not accept it as a fact of human nature and move on?

because money isn't everything...a peaceful inner being, leads one to God, in my world...

i was reacting to what i know, inside, as truth....and that for me, would be to overcome this festering or even the love of money that wants me, to keep my own...i have to be willing to give it up, before i can truly say, i have no love for it....and according to the Bible, the LOVE of money is the root of evil...

And as said...all asked of us or shown to us through example with Christ is easier said than done....

yet 'all' is still what is asked of us......

 

[Christopher]

Show me one scripture where he says not to use government. So therefore, he's neutral in the idea.

Your comparing our freely elected government to Caesar?

Here is one scripture from Jesus’ apostle, Paul in 1 Corinthians 9:7 (King James Translation). It does not discuss the government, however, it does clarify how we should give to others and makes it clear that it is not by being forced to pay taxes.

7 Every man according as he purposeth in his heart, so let him give; not grudgingly or of necessity: for God loveth a cheerful giver.

So, what percent of people pay their taxes out of “necessity? I think that includes everyone, unless they want to go to prison. The scriptures clearly teach we should giving willing and that true giving is when it is done without being compelled. Now, show where in the scriptures that it says we should force others to give.

God loves a cheerful giver, yet I've never seen tax day as a day for cheerfulness, have you?

our lacking in cheerfulness could be our own FAILINGS though...you can't negate that....it could be us, acting just as the Pharisees, trying to get Jesus to give the A-OK to rebel against being taxed....their hearts were festering in their disgust of having to pay taxes....Jesus tried to nip that in the bud, right then and there...by asking whose head was on the coin....and to give unto Caesar what is his....

this was to release them from their anger, their festering inside from the unfairness of the roman gvt taxation....

a lesson for us could be, when this anger on taxation is released....this leaves opening for happiness or a cheerful heart to occur, which could not with the festering anger?

care

I see what you’re trying to say and I know you are just responding to my last sentence, however, it does not change the first part of my response which is that we pay our taxes out of “necessity” which is not the right way to give to others according to scripture. I don’t mind paying taxes for services the government provides, such as police, fire fighters, etc., however, Jesus never taught that compulsion is the way to teach others to have compassion.

 

[DiveCon]

You want to now bring up 'the church'? What, when you leave church, your supposed to forget what Christ wants you to do? You want to through down your cross and live like the people of this world soon as you step out those church doors? There are 2 words for that behavior: pseudo- christian.

show one scripture where Jesus said to have your government do anything
one where he says to petition Caesar to take care of the poor

Show me one scripture where he says not to use government. So therefore, he's neutral in the idea.

Your comparing our freely elected government to Caesar?

the only comparison in the bible would be to the ROmans, since they were the "government" at the time
you just show how fucking CLUELESS you really are

 

[Care4all]

show one scripture where Jesus said to have your government do anything
one where he says to petition Caesar to take care of the poor

Show me one scripture where he says not to use government. So therefore, he's neutral in the idea.

Your comparing our freely elected government to Caesar?

the only comparison in the bible would be to the ROmans, since they were the "government" at the time
you just show how fucking CLUELESS you really are

That's not quite true Dive...

The Jews had their own theocracy and government among them while the Roman's were there as well.

 

[Oddball]

Overcome?

Why not accept it as a fact of human nature and move on?

because money isn't everything...a peaceful inner being, leads one to God, in my world...

i was reacting to what i know, inside, as truth....and that for me, would be to overcome this festering or even the love of money that wants me, to keep my own...i have to be willing to give it up, before i can truly say, i have no love for it....and according to the Bible, the LOVE of money is the root of evil...

And as said...all asked of us or shown to us through example with Christ is easier said than done....

yet 'all' is still what is asked of us......

We're not talking about the love of money here. We're talking about forcibly taking the fruits of one man's labor and using it to feather the nests of those who did nothing to earn those resources.

Pretty Bible verses can't cover for outright theft under color of law.

 

[DiveCon]

Show me one scripture where he says not to use government. So therefore, he's neutral in the idea.

Your comparing our freely elected government to Caesar?

the only comparison in the bible would be to the ROmans, since they were the "government" at the time
you just show how fucking CLUELESS you really are

That's not quite true Dive...

The Jews had their own theocracy and government among them while the Roman's were there as well.

but they did not carry the rule of law like the Romans did

 

[Care4all]

Overcome?

Why not accept it as a fact of human nature and move on?

because money isn't everything...a peaceful inner being, leads one to God, in my world...

i was reacting to what i know, inside, as truth....and that for me, would be to overcome this festering or even the love of money that wants me, to keep my own...i have to be willing to give it up, before i can truly say, i have no love for it....and according to the Bible, the LOVE of money is the root of evil...

And as said...all asked of us or shown to us through example with Christ is easier said than done....

yet 'all' is still what is asked of us......

We're not talking about the love of money here. We're talking about forcibly taking the fruits of one man's labor and using it to feather the nests of those who did nothing to earn those resources.

Pretty Bible verses can't cover for outright theft under color of law.

the Romans WERE STEALING from the Jews, WHEN Jesus told them to pay their taxes to him....

THIS WAS THE SORE THUMB with the Pharisees that put the trick question before Christ, dude....this was the context and the setting of the question...

it wasn't just gvt taking money via taxes and redistributing some of it back....they were just taking the money of the jews living there via taxes for nothing, nada, nilche, in return...

you would THINK Jesus would have been furious with such forceful theft, just as the Pharisees proposing the question to him were, but His answer was the COMPLETE OPPOSITE...

For me, that gives pause...and makes me contemplate His true message behind the story on the surface....

to me, this goes deeper than pastry...

care

 

[Ravi]

no denying that, and how hard it is, to overcome, as humans.

I pay my taxes cheerfully.

 

[Oddball]

because money isn't everything...a peaceful inner being, leads one to God, in my world...

i was reacting to what i know, inside, as truth....and that for me, would be to overcome this festering or even the love of money that wants me, to keep my own...i have to be willing to give it up, before i can truly say, i have no love for it....and according to the Bible, the LOVE of money is the root of evil...

And as said...all asked of us or shown to us through example with Christ is easier said than done....

yet 'all' is still what is asked of us......

We're not talking about the love of money here. We're talking about forcibly taking the fruits of one man's labor and using it to feather the nests of those who did nothing to earn those resources.

Pretty Bible verses can't cover for outright theft under color of law.

the Romans WERE STEALING from the Jews, WHEN Jesus told them to pay their taxes to him....

THIS WAS THE SORE THUMB with the Pharisees that put the trick question before Christ, dude....this was the context and the setting of the question...

it wasn't just gvt taking money via taxes and redistributing some of it back....they were just taking the money of the jews living there via taxes for nothing, nada, nilche, in return...

you would THINK Jesus would have been furious with such forceful theft, just as the Pharisees proposing the question to him were, but His answer was the COMPLETE OPPOSITE...

For me, that gives pause...and makes me contemplate His true message behind the story on the surface....

to me, this goes deeper than pastry...

care

And what do you call taking tax dollars and using them to pay very well heeled bureaucrats, who then get to more or less arbitrarily decide how best to spend the remaining pennies on the dollar that have been expropriated?

 

[Care4all]

no denying that, and how hard it is, to overcome, as humans.

I pay my taxes cheerfully.

when we were ''in the money'' we used to pay them cheerfully as well ravi, but now that we are a one income family and have become poor....but not poor enough, it has become harder to be cheerful....but i am working on it!

 

[Oddball]

You have no choice, cheerful or otherwise....That's the whole point.

The word "giving" presumes volition, not compulsion.

 

[Care4all]

We're not talking about the love of money here. We're talking about forcibly taking the fruits of one man's labor and using it to feather the nests of those who did nothing to earn those resources.

Pretty Bible verses can't cover for outright theft under color of law.

the Romans WERE STEALING from the Jews, WHEN Jesus told them to pay their taxes to him....

THIS WAS THE SORE THUMB with the Pharisees that put the trick question before Christ, dude....this was the context and the setting of the question...

it wasn't just gvt taking money via taxes and redistributing some of it back....they were just taking the money of the jews living there via taxes for nothing, nada, nilche, in return...

you would THINK Jesus would have been furious with such forceful theft, just as the Pharisees proposing the question to him were, but His answer was the COMPLETE OPPOSITE...

For me, that gives pause...and makes me contemplate His true message behind the story on the surface....

to me, this goes deeper than pastry...

care

And what do you call taking tax dollars and using them to pay very well heeled bureaucrats, who then get to more or less arbitrarily decide how best to spend the remaining pennies on the dollar that have been expropriated?

Salaried politicians?

is this a trick question?