Jesus and the public option

[Cecilie1200]

Those that say the public option will take away freedom and that Jesus would never be for anything government run are speaking through their man-made, humanistic Ideologies.

Matthew 25 31-46 states how we as a nation treat the 'least of these', is how we treat Christ himself. Jesus wouldn't care how we helped the poor and sick, just as long as we did it.

Another illiterate heard from. This is me casting pearls before swine again, but what can I say? It's a bad habit I have.

Matthew 25:31-46 does not refer to how nations are supposed to behave, you tweeko. It refers to how PEOPLE - as in individuals - are supposed to behave. Observe the phrase, ". . . and he will separate the people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats." The PEOPLE, Brain Trust.

Last time I checked, Medicare never dropped someone off of there coverage because they had gotten sick and digging into their profits. What the health insurance industry is doing is right up there with planned parenthood, making profit from the termination of human life(abortion). Its some of the most anti-Christ behavior that I've seen in a while.

Then you need to check a little deeper, numbnuts. Medicare and Medicaid both make a regular practice of refusing payment for things. In fact, Medicare flatly refuses to guarantee payment for ANYTHING. Ask your doctor's billing specialist if you don't believe me. Oh, they'll PROBABLY pay for it, because they have before, but they're not promisin' nothin'.

I also wish the wing nuts would get off of the "losing freedom" tangent. If you are a christian, your freedom is compromised. Follow Christ or suffer the consequences. Doesn't leave a lot of room for your freedoms does it? Jesus didn't tell us to:

"live free or die"

And when I get around to taking a vote on what I should and shouldn't consider important, I MIGHT care if you want me to "get off of it" or not. But probably not, because I'll still think you're a retard.

Comparing following Christ to being taxed for welfare programs is just disingenuous, not to mention childish. It might help your argument if the government and your bloated, worthless social programs were even remotely as attractive a "compromise to my freedom" as God is.

By the way, I believe the Bible DID say that no man can serve two masters. Hmmm, God or government? Decisions, decisions.

He told us to love others as we love ourselves, which means sacrifice and doing things that restrict your freedom for the sake of others. Its a good thing Jesus wasn't a conservative, otherwise he would have never died on the cross for our sins. You would think by listening to these neo-cons Christs middle name would be Adam Smith.

See my response to that other tweeko on whether or not "love others as ourselves" means giving them the same welfare handouts you're trying to score for yourself. Because frankly, I'm not impressed with the quality of your affections, just because you're not trying to drag me down any farther than just to your level.

It's a good thing Jesus wasn't a leftist, otherwise he'd have had the government send someone else to die on the cross. You would think by listening to these paleo-leftists that Christ's middle name was Karl Marx.

 

[Cecilie1200]

Those that say the public option will take away freedom and that Jesus would never be for anything government run are speaking through their man-made, humanistic Ideologies.

No, we just see how Christ lived His life and realize that's how He wants us to live ours. He doesnt want us abrogating our responsibilities on some monolith government. He doesnt want us outsourcing our charity to others. He wants us to actually go out and do things.





And how are you helping the poor by having someone else give them a third party's hard earned money?

I certainly do think Jesus cares about how we take care of the poor and the sick. As I said, I think He expects us to do it, not to outsource it.



So for some reason its unfair that people get compensated for providing people with a service? We should just give everything for nothing? It be nice if we lived in that type of world. Where we didn't have to do any work and get free stuff all the time. But we don't.

There is nothing wrong with making money. The only problems occur when you love money more than God and your fellow man.

The real question is why are you jealous of people making profits? Why are they suddenly not entitled to make a living or be compensated for the service they provide? Just because you say so? Why are you entitled to someone elses work?

God tells us we are to be work hard and be charitable. He doesnt say we are entitled to anything. Why do you trust in the state more than God? Why do you think you are entitled to anything?

I also wish the wing nuts would get off of the "losing freedom" tangent. If you are a christian, your freedom is compromised. Follow Christ or suffer the consequences. Doesn't leave a lot of room for your freedoms does it? Jesus didn't tell us to:

"live free or die"

He told us to love others as we love ourselves, which means sacrifice and doing things that restrict your freedom for the sake of others. Its a good thing Jesus wasn't a conservative, otherwise he would have never died on the cross for our sins. You would think by listening to these neo-cons Christs middle name would be Adam Smith.

You dont listen to Him much. And you don't follow His word. If you did you would realize that the Truth sets us free. If we live the Gospel we are a free people. If we don't we sell ourselves into bondage. To obey is better than to sacrifice. To love others isnt a sacrifice.

1. Your 'evil' government is nothing more than a straw man. WE ARE the government. By, of and for the people. To say government is some mindless machine coming to take your rights is a gross and pathetic exaggeration. Individuals make up government and there are strength in #s. We can help so many more people together than we can separate. And that's the goal.

Nice try, but no. How does "we ARE the government" change the fact that the government is evil? What, you think the people themselves are incapable of doing evil, or endorsing evil done in their name?

To pretend that our government is a direct democracy, consisting only of the people themselves, is too laughably dishonest to even deserve response.

2. 2 Corinthians 8 1-15:
It doesn't matter how much you have, what matters is what you are willing to give from what you have. I am not trying to make life easier on others by making life harder on you but I think it's fair that you share with them when you have so much and they have so little.

That's right. What matters is WHAT YOU'RE WILLING TO GIVE. Nowhere does that verse say, "What matters is what the government is willing to take from you unwillingly." Nor does it say, "What matters is what the rev, in his infinite wisdom and moral superiority, deems it 'fair' for you to have taken from you."

Yeah, you ARE trying to make life easier on others by making it harder on us. More urgently, you're trying to make it easier on YOURSELF. It's so much more convenient if you can pat yourself on the back and say, "I made sure all the poor people were taken care of by voting for the government to handle it and make those mean ol' conservatives cough up" than it is to actually get out of your comfy chair and go among the poor and help them personally, isn't it? Just cast a vote and you can have the warm glow of thinking yourself quite the fine fellow without ever having to get your hands dirty, right?

This is your wake-up call from God, Reverend. It's not for you to worry about whether or not your neighbor is doing his "fair share". When you stand before the judgement seat of God, He's not going to ask you what social programs you supported or how many taxes you voted for to stick it to rich people and force them to do "their share". He's going to ask what YOU did, yourself, with your own two hands. What are you going to tell him?

[Later, when they have more than enough, and you are in need,they can share with you. Then everyone will have a fair share, just as the Scripture says, "Those who gathered too much didn't have too much and those who gathered too little did not have to little".

So you figure what God wants is for you tax the prosperous until EVERYONE'S in need, and then they can huddle companionably around the campfire in their Hooverville and share their pot of beans?

You don't earn anything, your blessed with it by grace.

3.Why do you trust corporate America more than Jesus and our government? Corporate America cares about one thing, Profit. WE ARE the government. So we are not out sourcing. Health insurance companies don't provide anything! They make profits off the sick and their suffering. They drop the sick from their policies and don't care whether they live or die. Profit is more important to them than life its self. Real Christ like. Jesus healed everybody that came to him. He didn't ask for money, an insurance card or if what they had was a pre-existing illness. Doctors and nurses do all the work and provide a service. Insurance companies make profit by screwing people out of their policies when they need them most. Name me one person who was dropped from Medicare because of an illness.Thats because Medicare is non-profit, the way health and human services should be.

Why do YOU trust government more than corporate America? (I'm not even going to comment on the noxiousness of lumping Jesus and the government in together, as though they're the same entity.) Politicians care about one thing: their own power base. And thanks to people like you, increasing numbers of the population care about one thing: voting themselves as many goodies at someone else's expense as they can.

Of course Medicare is non-profit. That's because it has the deep pockets of the American taxpayer to suck off of, instead of having to survive by being efficient. That doesn't make it a charity, Einstein. Just because they don't drop people off Medicare doesn't mean they don't refuse payment for treatment. They do it all the time, regardless of this little rosy fantasy you're living in where Medicare is staffed by a bunch of Mother Theresa clones who live to tend the sick.

4.We are free of the shackles of the law because of Christs blood. He didn't say we are now free to chase earthly pleasures while carrying our cross and following him. We gave our souls to Christ, he paid a great price for us. Sounds like our souls are bought and paid for. To follow Christ takes sacrifice from our selfish lives.

Yeah, well, call me when you sacrifice the selfishness of your incredible laziness toward your fellow man.

Love is sacrifice. Love is seeking the other persons highest good without anything in returned. To sacrifice our needs for the needs of others. "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life". Christ gave himself as a living SACRIFICE for all of man kind. Without sacrifice, there is no salvation.

Call me when you sacrifice something of your own, because it's not much of a sacrifice on your part for you to spend OTHER people's money.

 

[Cecilie1200]

Matthew 25:31-46 (New International Version)

The Sheep and the Goats
31"When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, he will sit on his throne in heavenly glory. 32All the nations will be gathered before him, and he will separate the people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. 33He will put the sheep on his right and the goats on his left.

34"Then the King will say to those on his right, 'Come, you who are blessed by my Father; take your inheritance, the kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world. 35For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in, 36I needed clothes and you clothed me, I was sick and you looked after me, I was in prison and you came to visit me.'

37"Then the righteous will answer him, 'Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you something to drink? 38When did we see you a stranger and invite you in, or needing clothes and clothe you? 39When did we see you sick or in prison and go to visit you?'

40"The King will reply, 'I tell you the truth, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers of mine, you did for me.'

41"Then he will say to those on his left, 'Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. 42For I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink, 43I was a stranger and you did not invite me in, I needed clothes and you did not clothe me, I was sick and in prison and you did not look after me.'

44"They also will answer, 'Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or needing clothes or sick or in prison, and did not help you?'

45"He will reply, 'I tell you the truth, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me.'

46"Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life."



There are also 3 different translations that have the same message:
New American Standard Bible
The King James version
Contemporary English version


No messing with words here to fit any agenda that I have. I'm a reverend and registered as an independent.

uh, no where does that say anything about a government
its talking to INDIVIDUALS
and even if it DID

we are NOT a theocracy and i dont know anyone that wants one

So Jesus would say,"help the poor and the sick, but if you have to use your evil government, let them die". WE ARE the government once again. Its not a separate entity. Individuals make up government. Do you want to let the poor and sick die because it conflicts with your conservative ideology? I feel sorry for you.

How dare you? Conservatives do exponentially more for the poor and sick than leftists do. They not only give more money to charity, they volunteer more time. Did you know that if self-proclaimed liberals donated blood as much as self-identified conservatives did, our nation's blood supply would increase by 45%? Where the hell do you get off accusing someone of wanting to let the poor and sick die because they don't want to redistribute other people's money? How much of your personal money have YOU given to help the poor and sick this year? How many volunteer hours have you put in? What, if anything, have YOU done to be charitable this year? I feel sorry for you. It's going to suck when you have to explain to God that you "gave at the office".

 

[Ravi]

uh, no where does that say anything about a government
its talking to INDIVIDUALS
and even if it DID

we are NOT a theocracy and i dont know anyone that wants one

So Jesus would say,"help the poor and the sick, but if you have to use your evil government, let them die". WE ARE the government once again. Its not a separate entity. Individuals make up government. Do you want to let the poor and sick die because it conflicts with your conservative ideology? I feel sorry for you.

How dare you? Conservatives do exponentially more for the poor and sick than leftists do. They not only give more money to charity, they volunteer more time. Did you know that if self-proclaimed liberals donated blood as much as self-identified conservatives did, our nation's blood supply would increase by 45%? Where the hell do you get off accusing someone of wanting to let the poor and sick die because they don't want to redistribute other people's money? How much of your personal money have YOU given to help the poor and sick this year? How many volunteer hours have you put in? What, if anything, have YOU done to be charitable this year? I feel sorry for you. It's going to suck when you have to explain to God that you "gave at the office".

Prove that, please. Twit.

 

[the rev]

Once again, your letting an ideology of anti-government take precedent over your faith. I don't care how you help the poor and sick, just as long as you do it! Give me an alternative to the public option that will:

1. Help as many people as the public option would
2 Would do it non-profit

Funny, that's not what Christ said or taught. You'd know this if you were familiar with the scriptures.

Christ encouraged individual charity. He never once spoke of government assistance or handouts. And that is for a very good reason. It doesnt work. Christ doesnt work through compulsion. He works through invitation, through exhortation, through long suffering, through unfeigned kindness, etc.

The fact that you cant see an alternative greater than the state also shows your lack of understanding of the Gospel. Because if you were studying and praying know, the Spirit would show you many better alternatives.

It doesn't have to be through government. But for right now, that seems to be the best way. Still, can you find me a better solution through private industry? Find me a private business that will take the sick and the poor, give them health insurance at a very low rate and keep them through all of their health trials without raising or cutting their coverage?

Individual charity..... its individuals that make up government. The government is an extension of individuals on a much broader scale. And once again, he didn't say not to use ones government.

 

[the rev]

Those that say the public option will take away freedom and that Jesus would never be for anything government run are speaking through their man-made, humanistic Ideologies.

Matthew 25 31-46 states how we as a nation treat the 'least of these', is how we treat Christ himself. Jesus wouldn't care how we helped the poor and sick, just as long as we did it.

Another illiterate heard from. This is me casting pearls before swine again, but what can I say? It's a bad habit I have.

Matthew 25:31-46 does not refer to how nations are supposed to behave, you tweeko. It refers to how PEOPLE - as in individuals - are supposed to behave. Observe the phrase, ". . . and he will separate the people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats." The PEOPLE, Brain Trust.

Last time I checked, Medicare never dropped someone off of there coverage because they had gotten sick and digging into their profits. What the health insurance industry is doing is right up there with planned parenthood, making profit from the termination of human life(abortion). Its some of the most anti-Christ behavior that I've seen in a while.

Then you need to check a little deeper, numbnuts. Medicare and Medicaid both make a regular practice of refusing payment for things. In fact, Medicare flatly refuses to guarantee payment for ANYTHING. Ask your doctor's billing specialist if you don't believe me. Oh, they'll PROBABLY pay for it, because they have before, but they're not promisin' nothin'.

I also wish the wing nuts would get off of the "losing freedom" tangent. If you are a christian, your freedom is compromised. Follow Christ or suffer the consequences. Doesn't leave a lot of room for your freedoms does it? Jesus didn't tell us to:

"live free or die"

And when I get around to taking a vote on what I should and shouldn't consider important, I MIGHT care if you want me to "get off of it" or not. But probably not, because I'll still think you're a retard.

Comparing following Christ to being taxed for welfare programs is just disingenuous, not to mention childish. It might help your argument if the government and your bloated, worthless social programs were even remotely as attractive a "compromise to my freedom" as God is.

By the way, I believe the Bible DID say that no man can serve two masters. Hmmm, God or government? Decisions, decisions.

He told us to love others as we love ourselves, which means sacrifice and doing things that restrict your freedom for the sake of others. Its a good thing Jesus wasn't a conservative, otherwise he would have never died on the cross for our sins. You would think by listening to these neo-cons Christs middle name would be Adam Smith.

See my response to that other tweeko on whether or not "love others as ourselves" means giving them the same welfare handouts you're trying to score for yourself. Because frankly, I'm not impressed with the quality of your affections, just because you're not trying to drag me down any farther than just to your level.

It's a good thing Jesus wasn't a leftist, otherwise he'd have had the government send someone else to die on the cross. You would think by listening to these paleo-leftists that Christ's middle name was Karl Marx.

1. People make up the government and nations, again.

2.Wow, name calling, another Christ like attribute from the right. I have spoke to many doctors on this issue that go to my church. They say Medicare is better than over 50 percent of the private plans out there. Medicade depends on what state you live in.

3. Retard... what are you ten years old? Give me a private plan that will help the poor and sick just as good as a public option. This is the right wing for you.

4.You are showing too much hatred right now for anything that doesn't fit your 'ism'. You just stereotyped people on welfare as an excuse not to help them. Have you ever worked in a homeless shelter? Ever talk to those folks? Apparently not. You live in a sheltered box and have never seen desperate.

5. Who said anything about serving government? Now your making up false claims to feed a wacko Glen Beck theory. I find it entertaining how angry you are getting. Capitalism is your religion and money is your God.

6.Im sorry Im not impressing you. I thought this morning,'how could I impress you"? I was going to do a little dance but decided not too. I live my life serving others. Thats why I really have no wealth to speak of. You should feel more compassion and pity for others that don't have it as well as you do. Those that show comppasion will see the kingdom of God. Im trying to drag you UP to my level, by the way.

7. There is no such thing as right and left when it comes to Jesus. But, you asked for it. SHOW ME WHERE JESUS EXTOLS THE EFFECTIVENESS, MORE SO THE MORALITY, OF TRICKLE DOWN ECONOMICS OR THE GENIUS OF THE FREE MARKET SYSTEM. FURTHERMORE, SHOW ME WHERE HE FAVORS THE UNBRIDLED ACCUMULATION OF WEALTH WORSHIPED BY YOU CONSERVATIVES. Happy hunting.

 

[Oddball]

Once again, your letting an ideology of anti-government take precedent over your faith. I don't care how you help the poor and sick, just as long as you do it! Give me an alternative to the public option that will:

1. Help as many people as the public option would
2 Would do it non-profit

Funny, that's not what Christ said or taught. You'd know this if you were familiar with the scriptures.

Christ encouraged individual charity. He never once spoke of government assistance or handouts. And that is for a very good reason. It doesnt work. Christ doesnt work through compulsion. He works through invitation, through exhortation, through long suffering, through unfeigned kindness, etc.

The fact that you cant see an alternative greater than the state also shows your lack of understanding of the Gospel. Because if you were studying and praying know, the Spirit would show you many better alternatives.

It doesn't have to be through government. But for right now, that seems to be the best way. Still, can you find me a better solution through private industry? Find me a private business that will take the sick and the poor, give them health insurance at a very low rate and keep them through all of their health trials without raising or cutting their coverage?

Individual charity..... its individuals that make up government. The government is an extension of individuals on a much broader scale. And once again, he didn't say not to use ones government.

It's now clear to me that you're a fraud of a "rev".

Individuals make up the church every bit as much as they make up the gubmint, but you're perfectly happy to shirk off what is supposed to be the Lord's work onto others.

Somehow or another, I can't hear Christ saying "pass the buck unto Caesar".

 

[Care4all]

Why is helping the poor suppose to be the Lord's work?

What does that mean....one does this through theirchurch and then; FORGET ABOUT IT with the rest of ones life?

Why is this "the Lords work" and not the work of people taking care of others, including strangers?

Did Christ say that what ever you did to the least among you, you did unto me....only IF IT WAS WHILE you were doing the work of your church, but if you were doing the work of your government or just within your society, then it is A-OK to treat the least among you or me, like a piece of crap?

I guess i don;t understand where this separation of taking care of the least among us comes from...it certainly did NOT come from Christ saying such...???

 

[Oddball]

When did Christ ever say to force your neighbor, at sword point if necessary, to help the poor?

Whatever happened to "thou shall not covet..."?

 

[the rev]

uh, no where does that say anything about a government
its talking to INDIVIDUALS
and even if it DID

we are NOT a theocracy and i dont know anyone that wants one

So Jesus would say,"help the poor and the sick, but if you have to use your evil government, let them die". WE ARE the government once again. Its not a separate entity. Individuals make up government. Do you want to let the poor and sick die because it conflicts with your conservative ideology? I feel sorry for you.

How dare you? Conservatives do exponentially more for the poor and sick than leftists do. They not only give more money to charity, they volunteer more time. Did you know that if self-proclaimed liberals donated blood as much as self-identified conservatives did, our nation's blood supply would increase by 45%? Where the hell do you get off accusing someone of wanting to let the poor and sick die because they don't want to redistribute other people's money? How much of your personal money have YOU given to help the poor and sick this year? How many volunteer hours have you put in? What, if anything, have YOU done to be charitable this year? I feel sorry for you. It's going to suck when you have to explain to God that you "gave at the office".

Prove it! I volunteer time in homeless shelters and the only ones there ARE LIBERALS. You are showing massive disdain for people with liberal thinking. You are now selling out Jesus for your ideology.

Where the hell do I get off? Ive seen it! Ive watched wall street and corporate america along with the conservative movement create legislation and policy that puts the power and favoritism towards the haves while neglecting the have nots! There is no money or profit to be made in social or human services. So there for, your wall street cats dont give a rats ass about 'the least of these'. Corporate america is like a pimp and this country is their two dollar hore.

Painting me as some office tweeb that just talks the talk is your imaginary retribution. There is a reason I have compassion and empathy for others that are suffering. Ive been to Ethiopia with my mission 5 times in the last 8 years. I volunteer at the local homeless shelter and collect food, cloths and money for them as well. We have a network of churches locally that take in the homeless so they don't have to sleep in the cold. I also sponsor 2 children, one in Somalia, one in Niger. I could keep going but all of that is not important. What is, is the lack of compassion and the straight up hatred and cold heartiness you are showing. Because of Gods mercy and his un-dying love for me, is the reason I can show it for others.

I know why you try and accuse me of those things, takes one to know one.

 

[the rev]

Funny, that's not what Christ said or taught. You'd know this if you were familiar with the scriptures.

Christ encouraged individual charity. He never once spoke of government assistance or handouts. And that is for a very good reason. It doesnt work. Christ doesnt work through compulsion. He works through invitation, through exhortation, through long suffering, through unfeigned kindness, etc.

The fact that you cant see an alternative greater than the state also shows your lack of understanding of the Gospel. Because if you were studying and praying know, the Spirit would show you many better alternatives.

It doesn't have to be through government. But for right now, that seems to be the best way. Still, can you find me a better solution through private industry? Find me a private business that will take the sick and the poor, give them health insurance at a very low rate and keep them through all of their health trials without raising or cutting their coverage?

Individual charity..... its individuals that make up government. The government is an extension of individuals on a much broader scale. And once again, he didn't say not to use ones government.

It's now clear to me that you're a fraud of a "rev".

Individuals make up the church every bit as much as they make up the gubmint, but you're perfectly happy to shirk off what is supposed to be the Lord's work onto others.

Somehow or another, I can't hear Christ saying "pass the buck unto Caesar".

You want to now bring up 'the church'? What, when you leave church, your supposed to forget what Christ wants you to do? You want to through down your cross and live like the people of this world soon as you step out those church doors? There are 2 words for that behavior: pseudo- christian.

 

[DiveCon]

It doesn't have to be through government. But for right now, that seems to be the best way. Still, can you find me a better solution through private industry? Find me a private business that will take the sick and the poor, give them health insurance at a very low rate and keep them through all of their health trials without raising or cutting their coverage?

Individual charity..... its individuals that make up government. The government is an extension of individuals on a much broader scale. And once again, he didn't say not to use ones government.

It's now clear to me that you're a fraud of a "rev".

Individuals make up the church every bit as much as they make up the gubmint, but you're perfectly happy to shirk off what is supposed to be the Lord's work onto others.

Somehow or another, I can't hear Christ saying "pass the buck unto Caesar".

You want to now bring up 'the church'? What, when you leave church, your supposed to forget what Christ wants you to do? You want to through down your cross and live like the people of this world soon as you step out those church doors? There are 2 words for that behavior: pseudo- christian.

show one scripture where Jesus said to have your government do anything
one where he says to petition Caesar to take care of the poor

 

[Oddball]

You want to now bring up 'the church'? What, when you leave church, your supposed to forget what Christ wants you to do? You want to through down your cross and live like the people of this world soon as you step out those church doors? There are 2 words for that behavior: pseudo- christian.

You're the one who is invoking scripture here, pal. The church is but a mere 1/4 step away.

And nobody said anything about forgetting about Christ's teachings once one leaves the church, either.

There's only one word for you: Fraud.

 

[Care4all]

When did Christ ever say to force your neighbor, at sword point if necessary, to help the poor?

Whatever happened to "thou shall not covet..."?

first, there is no sword point, unless there is a sword point that made me pay for the iraq war or the post office....or the big bank ceo's bonus and mega salary.... and i just don't see it in such a melodramatic way Dude....though i suppose i do understand the point you all are trying to make when the term sword point or gun point is used.

Wanting to help those of the least among us in our society is not coveting one iota, you misunderstand the term if you think it does....no?

coveting someone else's goods is desiring that new car that your neighbor has or desiring those new shoes your girlfriend has, or wanting that monstrous house that your boss owns, or wanting that hot beautiful wife of someone else.

Wanting to help the needy or sick get by is not coveting anything Dude... or Divecon...since you thanked him for the post?

Anyway...as a Christian, one is a Christian 100% of the time, in all that they do, they try to do good in every opportunity. And I personally never say to myself, i am doing good because of Christ or even mention his name or give him glory for my own good works or daily routine....this is something that is inbred in to my character, not something that can be dropped like a dime, or like a person switching hats....it is IN ME, to do good at every opportunity....and i see helping the needy with my tax monies as just one of those opportunities...and i am not even thinking about Jesus...not out loud, perhaps subconsciously? But i do NOT want one dime of my money spent on unnecessary wars and killing other people...NOT A DIME....but GUESS WHAT? It goes there...it is spent on killing others, and many innocent, collateral damage, others, and there is not a damn thing i can do about it because our congress's majority has voted to send money in that direction....

i still don;t see that as them holding a sword or gun to me, to make me pay for it....?

Care

 

[Oddball]

When did Christ ever say to force your neighbor, at sword point if necessary, to help the poor?

Whatever happened to "thou shall not covet..."?

first, there is no sword point, unless there is a sword point that made me pay for the iraq war or the post office....or the big bank ceo's bonus and mega salary.... and i just don't see it in such a melodramatic way Dude....though i suppose i do understand the point you all are trying to make when the term sword point or gun point is used.

Wanting to help those of the least among us in our society is not coveting one iota, you misunderstand the term if you think it does....no?

coveting someone else's goods is desiring that new car that your neighbor has or desiring those new shoes your girlfriend has, or wanting that monstrous house that your boss owns, or wanting that hot beautiful wife of someone else.

Wanting to help the needy or sick get by is not coveting anything Dude... or Divecon...since you thanked him for the post?

Anyway...as a Christian, one is a Christian 100% of the time, in all that they do, they try to do good in every opportunity. And I personally never say to myself, i am doing good because of Christ or even mention his name or give him glory for my own good works or daily routine....this is something that is inbred in to my character, not something that can be dropped like a dime, or like a person switching hats....it is IN ME, to do good at every opportunity....and i see helping the needy with my tax monies as just one of those opportunities...and i am not even thinking about Jesus...not out loud, perhaps subconsciously? But i do NOT want one dime of my money spent on unnecessary wars and killing other people...NOT A DIME....but GUESS WHAT? It goes there...it is spent on killing others, and many innocent, collateral damage, others, and there is not a damn thing i can do about it because our congress's majority has voted to send money in that direction....

i still don;t see that as them holding a sword or gun to me, to make me pay for it....?

Care

Quit paying your taxes and do so defiantly....You'll eventually be held at the point of that sword.

What others did to violate the faith is irrelevant.

 

[Care4all]

When did Christ ever say to force your neighbor, at sword point if necessary, to help the poor?

Whatever happened to "thou shall not covet..."?

first, there is no sword point, unless there is a sword point that made me pay for the iraq war or the post office....or the big bank ceo's bonus and mega salary.... and i just don't see it in such a melodramatic way Dude....though i suppose i do understand the point you all are trying to make when the term sword point or gun point is used.

Wanting to help those of the least among us in our society is not coveting one iota, you misunderstand the term if you think it does....no?

coveting someone else's goods is desiring that new car that your neighbor has or desiring those new shoes your girlfriend has, or wanting that monstrous house that your boss owns, or wanting that hot beautiful wife of someone else.

Wanting to help the needy or sick get by is not coveting anything Dude... or Divecon...since you thanked him for the post?

Anyway...as a Christian, one is a Christian 100% of the time, in all that they do, they try to do good in every opportunity. And I personally never say to myself, i am doing good because of Christ or even mention his name or give him glory for my own good works or daily routine....this is something that is inbred in to my character, not something that can be dropped like a dime, or like a person switching hats....it is IN ME, to do good at every opportunity....and i see helping the needy with my tax monies as just one of those opportunities...and i am not even thinking about Jesus...not out loud, perhaps subconsciously? But i do NOT want one dime of my money spent on unnecessary wars and killing other people...NOT A DIME....but GUESS WHAT? It goes there...it is spent on killing others, and many innocent, collateral damage, others, and there is not a damn thing i can do about it because our congress's majority has voted to send money in that direction....

i still don;t see that as them holding a sword or gun to me, to make me pay for it....?

Care

Quit paying your taxes and do so defiantly....You'll eventually be held at the point of that sword.

What others did to violate the faith is irrelevant.

ok, so i have to pay for the killing of others and warring unless i am willing to be arrested....

 

[Oddball]

Or you can reject the premise from the outset, rather than rationalize being a partner in the graft.

 

[the rev]

No, we just see how Christ lived His life and realize that's how He wants us to live ours. He doesnt want us abrogating our responsibilities on some monolith government. He doesnt want us outsourcing our charity to others. He wants us to actually go out and do things.





And how are you helping the poor by having someone else give them a third party's hard earned money?

I certainly do think Jesus cares about how we take care of the poor and the sick. As I said, I think He expects us to do it, not to outsource it.



So for some reason its unfair that people get compensated for providing people with a service? We should just give everything for nothing? It be nice if we lived in that type of world. Where we didn't have to do any work and get free stuff all the time. But we don't.

There is nothing wrong with making money. The only problems occur when you love money more than God and your fellow man.

The real question is why are you jealous of people making profits? Why are they suddenly not entitled to make a living or be compensated for the service they provide? Just because you say so? Why are you entitled to someone elses work?

God tells us we are to be work hard and be charitable. He doesnt say we are entitled to anything. Why do you trust in the state more than God? Why do you think you are entitled to anything?



You dont listen to Him much. And you don't follow His word. If you did you would realize that the Truth sets us free. If we live the Gospel we are a free people. If we don't we sell ourselves into bondage. To obey is better than to sacrifice. To love others isnt a sacrifice.

1. Your 'evil' government is nothing more than a straw man. WE ARE the government. By, of and for the people. To say government is some mindless machine coming to take your rights is a gross and pathetic exaggeration. Individuals make up government and there are strength in #s. We can help so many more people together than we can separate. And that's the goal.

Nice try, but no. How does "we ARE the government" change the fact that the government is evil? What, you think the people themselves are incapable of doing evil, or endorsing evil done in their name?

To pretend that our government is a direct democracy, consisting only of the people themselves, is too laughably dishonest to even deserve response.



That's right. What matters is WHAT YOU'RE WILLING TO GIVE. Nowhere does that verse say, "What matters is what the government is willing to take from you unwillingly." Nor does it say, "What matters is what the rev, in his infinite wisdom and moral superiority, deems it 'fair' for you to have taken from you."

Yeah, you ARE trying to make life easier on others by making it harder on us. More urgently, you're trying to make it easier on YOURSELF. It's so much more convenient if you can pat yourself on the back and say, "I made sure all the poor people were taken care of by voting for the government to handle it and make those mean ol' conservatives cough up" than it is to actually get out of your comfy chair and go among the poor and help them personally, isn't it? Just cast a vote and you can have the warm glow of thinking yourself quite the fine fellow without ever having to get your hands dirty, right?

This is your wake-up call from God, Reverend. It's not for you to worry about whether or not your neighbor is doing his "fair share". When you stand before the judgement seat of God, He's not going to ask you what social programs you supported or how many taxes you voted for to stick it to rich people and force them to do "their share". He's going to ask what YOU did, yourself, with your own two hands. What are you going to tell him?



So you figure what God wants is for you tax the prosperous until EVERYONE'S in need, and then they can huddle companionably around the campfire in their Hooverville and share their pot of beans?



Why do YOU trust government more than corporate America? (I'm not even going to comment on the noxiousness of lumping Jesus and the government in together, as though they're the same entity.) Politicians care about one thing: their own power base. And thanks to people like you, increasing numbers of the population care about one thing: voting themselves as many goodies at someone else's expense as they can.

Of course Medicare is non-profit. That's because it has the deep pockets of the American taxpayer to suck off of, instead of having to survive by being efficient. That doesn't make it a charity, Einstein. Just because they don't drop people off Medicare doesn't mean they don't refuse payment for treatment. They do it all the time, regardless of this little rosy fantasy you're living in where Medicare is staffed by a bunch of Mother Theresa clones who live to tend the sick.

4.We are free of the shackles of the law because of Christs blood. He didn't say we are now free to chase earthly pleasures while carrying our cross and following him. We gave our souls to Christ, he paid a great price for us. Sounds like our souls are bought and paid for. To follow Christ takes sacrifice from our selfish lives.

Yeah, well, call me when you sacrifice the selfishness of your incredible laziness toward your fellow man.

Love is sacrifice. Love is seeking the other persons highest good without anything in returned. To sacrifice our needs for the needs of others. "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life". Christ gave himself as a living SACRIFICE for all of man kind. Without sacrifice, there is no salvation.

Call me when you sacrifice something of your own, because it's not much of a sacrifice on your part for you to spend OTHER people's money.

1.If you have that ideological driven cynicism about everybody that serves, why don't you move to another country. Your fake 'government is coming for you' is old and outdated by 30 years. Wall street owns this country along with every foreign investor. You are blind to the fact that you are a slave to corporate America, not the government. If you were elected to the senate, are you no longer an american?

2.Government doesn't have to take anything. We pay the lowest taxes in the industrial world. Expenses are killing people and these expenses are being driven up by foreign investors in our markets. They want profit and they will get it from you. By the way, your God, money, doesn't belong to you. Your name or face is not on it. You did not print it, or create it. You are BLESSED with it. When you die, you can't take it with you. So therefore, its not yours. Whether you earned it can be debated. So there is no reason to hold onto it like a miser. If you make enough to live, anything extra can be used to bless others. Once again, it doesn't have to be government. The excuses you use are being made out of selfishness not to give.

3. Ive done more to help the 'least of these' than you ever will. Proof? Your attitude towards actually helping others. No compassion, no empathy. Just greed and selfishness. Your tree doesn't produce fruit. Grab an axe and chop it down.

4.There is enough money to go around to make sure everybody has their NEEDS met. Not wants. The top 10 percent of wage earners in this nation monopolize 70 percent of this countries wealth leaving 90 percent to live off of 30 percent. You should be proud of that. Fits your humanistic ideology.

5. For every accusation you make about our government, I can make about corporate america ten fold!OUR government isnt perfect by far, but its ours. And we must find ways to make it work better for us and for those that need help.Jesus would appreciate that. Get away from your useless ideology! If you can't even admit what wall street has turned this nation into, you are nothing more than a modern day pharisee, who has trusted their wealth and own humanistic reasoning as a substitute for Christs word. Continue worshiping your golden calf.

6.Medicare doesn't hang people out to die. If you need a life changing surgery, you will get it. Because folks in this country have adopted such a selfish lifestyle, like the one you portray, they have stopped giving to charities and try to cheat the tax code to hoard more money. The top 2 percent in this country got away with not paying 700 billion dollars in 2007. Thats also very Christ like. Charity is not the only means to help somebody. But your a genius, you probably knew that. Well, maybe not.

7. Whats your #. I'll call you. I'll let you speak to those that are thankful for real christians help. I'll let you speak to those who have nothing and are waiting for you and selfish greedy pseudo Christians like yourself to give their 10 percent. Try skipping one of those teabag parties and SACRIFICE some time to help the ones that really need it! You want to blame all of your problems on government and high taxes and crooked politicians but that still doesn't relieve you from SACRIFICING what belongs to God. The road to the gates of heaven are narrow, and your way off path my friend.

 

[the rev]

You want to now bring up 'the church'? What, when you leave church, your supposed to forget what Christ wants you to do? You want to through down your cross and live like the people of this world soon as you step out those church doors? There are 2 words for that behavior: pseudo- christian.

You're the one who is invoking scripture here, pal. The church is but a mere 1/4 step away.

And nobody said anything about forgetting about Christ's teachings once one leaves the church, either.

There's only one word for you: Fraud.

Every church is man made. Along with religion. Faith is what you want. Not a religion, or a church membership! You don't have to go to church to follow Christ. The spirit will leed you regardless where you worship. You just showed you ignorance with that post. Fraud? You can tell when somebody has the Holy spirit in them. They display the character of Jesus. Jesus showed love and compassion for people, especially the poor and sick. You see the speck in my eye, but you don't see the log in your own.

 

[the rev]

It's now clear to me that you're a fraud of a "rev".

Individuals make up the church every bit as much as they make up the gubmint, but you're perfectly happy to shirk off what is supposed to be the Lord's work onto others.

Somehow or another, I can't hear Christ saying "pass the buck unto Caesar".

You want to now bring up 'the church'? What, when you leave church, your supposed to forget what Christ wants you to do? You want to through down your cross and live like the people of this world soon as you step out those church doors? There are 2 words for that behavior: pseudo- christian.

show one scripture where Jesus said to have your government do anything
one where he says to petition Caesar to take care of the poor

Show me one scripture where he says not to use government. So therefore, he's neutral in the idea.

Your comparing our freely elected government to Caesar?