January 17, 1961

[FA_Q2]

Is the thirty-five year long war on drugs an example of the Military Industrial Complex gone awry?

Is the US incarceration rate being the highest in the world just a symptom of the MIC, or is it part of the wider corporate problem of creating sources of tax money to mine?

How much has the war on drugs cost?

Only if you want to define military as something that it is not. The drug war has nothing to do with the military industrial complex. That is another animal altogether. The military industrial complex is specific. It is responsible for the fact that we have an international presence almost everywhere even when it does not progress our goals and that we have a MASSIVE DOD budget.

 

[martybegan]

Is the thirty-five year long war on drugs an example of the Military Industrial Complex gone awry?

Is the US incarceration rate being the highest in the world just a symptom of the MIC, or is it part of the wider corporate problem of creating sources of tax money to mine?

How much has the war on drugs cost?

Only if you want to define military as something that it is not. The drug war has nothing to do with the military industrial complex. That is another animal altogether. The military industrial complex is specific. It is responsible for the fact that we have an international presence almost everywhere even when it does not progress our goals and that we have a MASSIVE DOD budget.

The issue with the Drug war is actually a more local effect, with the militarization of police forces. The cause of this is the insane profitability of the drug trade, coupled with the ruthlessness of those in it. I do not begrudge the police having to arm up due to this, however it makes me question the effectiveness and the need for the drug war in the first place.

This ties into the ruling political classes seeming desire to disarm normal citizens, thus placing the ability to defend yourself with arms soley in the possession of government agents. You dont see the politicans forcing police to leave thier arms in the precincts, but you do see them trying to make citizen owned firearms as hard to get and as useless as possible once a person can actually get thier hands on one.

The police are merely citizens loaned the ability to be armed in public, and to broker disputes and detain people for crimes against others. What they are becoming is a higher class of citizen, and that is something that cannot be tolerated.

 

[jwoodie]

It would be interesting if there was a reporting blackout of opinion polls prior to elections. The "results" of these polls, which are easily manipulated, cause people to support candidates based on their reported popularity rather than the merits of their positions.

 

[whitehall]

Does anybody doubt that the "military industrial complex" turned the tide of the FDR depression years? The WW2 "war effort" was touted as a symbol of the industrial might of the greatest Country in the world. Leave it to the radical (socialist) left to turn it into a dirty word.

 

[AVG-JOE]

If given the chance, would you sit down and scarf two boxes of doctored up Oreos and a half-gallon of Bluebell Ice Cream?

Leave it to the extremist to fail to understand the concept of moderation.​

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KzqU-isi79c]How to Bake: Oreo Stuffed Chocolate Chip Cookies! - YouTube[/ame]
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6UAoalK9alQ]The World's Best Ice Cream Blue Bell Triple Chocolate - YouTube[/ame]



I can appreciate a strong military, but if the rate we are out spending the rest of the world on a fucking credit card doesn't alarm you, I can't help you.

​

 

[AVG-JOE]

Is the thirty-five year long war on drugs an example of the Military Industrial Complex gone awry?

Is the US incarceration rate being the highest in the world just a symptom of the MIC, or is it part of the wider corporate problem of creating sources of tax money to mine?

How much has the war on drugs cost?

Only if you want to define military as something that it is not. The drug war has nothing to do with the military industrial complex. That is another animal altogether. The military industrial complex is specific. It is responsible for the fact that we have an international presence almost everywhere even when it does not progress our goals and that we have a MASSIVE DOD budget.

So... basically what we have sucking on the tax-payer credit card tit circa 2013 is a self-sustaining and growing Military Industrial Complex, a self-sustaining and growing Medical Industrial Complex, AND a self-sustaining and growing Drug Enforcement Industrial Complex?!?

Voters over 50 go ​

Voters under 50 go ​

 

[AVG-JOE]

"and ignorant people sleep in their beds like the dope white mice in a college lab.

And nothing ever happens.... nothing happens at all!"​

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NJ1-Mcq5pNM]Nothing Ever Happens Del Amitri - YouTube[/ame]

 

[FA_Q2]

Is the thirty-five year long war on drugs an example of the Military Industrial Complex gone awry?

Is the US incarceration rate being the highest in the world just a symptom of the MIC, or is it part of the wider corporate problem of creating sources of tax money to mine?

How much has the war on drugs cost?

Only if you want to define military as something that it is not. The drug war has nothing to do with the military industrial complex. That is another animal altogether. The military industrial complex is specific. It is responsible for the fact that we have an international presence almost everywhere even when it does not progress our goals and that we have a MASSIVE DOD budget.

So... basically what we have sucking on the tax-payer credit card tit circa 2013 is a self-sustaining and growing Military Industrial Complex, a self-sustaining and growing Medical Industrial Complex, AND a self-sustaining and growing Drug Enforcement Industrial Complex?!?

Voters over 50 go ​

Voters under 50 go ​

Kinda sorta if you want to phrase it that way but I think that doing so avoids the obvious differences in those 3 areas. The military industrial complex is different than the drug war and its influences most notably in both rights and const. The drug war is useful for the government to invade our space and bodies. Only recently, with the new spying programs, was the MIC used in that manner. Usually, the MIC is a useful tool to drain tax money and pursue some of the more outrageous international actions. Each of those differ significantly and the manner in which we need to address them is also different. If you want to lump them together I would not call it MIC but rather big government interventionism. That term covers them all better IMHO.

 

[AVG-JOE]

I heard on NPR the other day that the actual dollars involved in the billion$ that We, The Peeps borrow from China at interest to give to Egypt in the form of military aid never leave the US.

The money is put in an account which is subsequently drained by US based defense contractors, who then ship hardware to Egypt, much of which goes straight in to storage.


We are looking SO stupid from space. It's no wonder we don't get many visitors.

 

[AVG-JOE]

I guess that the big scream is all of the US manufacturing jobs supported by those billions we borrow.


What kind of a pickle have we borrowed our way in to?

​

 

[AVG-JOE]

Only if you want to define military as something that it is not. The drug war has nothing to do with the military industrial complex. That is another animal altogether. The military industrial complex is specific. It is responsible for the fact that we have an international presence almost everywhere even when it does not progress our goals and that we have a MASSIVE DOD budget.

So... basically what we have sucking on the tax-payer credit card tit circa 2013 is a self-sustaining and growing Military Industrial Complex, a self-sustaining and growing Medical Industrial Complex, AND a self-sustaining and growing Drug Enforcement Industrial Complex?!?

Voters over 50 go ​

Voters under 50 go ​

Kinda sorta if you want to phrase it that way but I think that doing so avoids the obvious differences in those 3 areas. The military industrial complex is different than the drug war and its influences most notably in both rights and const. The drug war is useful for the government to invade our space and bodies. Only recently, with the new spying programs, was the MIC used in that manner. Usually, the MIC is a useful tool to drain tax money and pursue some of the more outrageous international actions. Each of those differ significantly and the manner in which we need to address them is also different. If you want to lump them together I would not call it MIC but rather big government interventionism. That term covers them all better IMHO.

Oh you're absolutely correct. Once created, any self-sustaining and growing Government Industrial Complex worth it's salt is going to customize it's approach to survival and growth based on an ever changing environment.

They all do seem to have a couple of traits in common though... like talented and well paid lobbyists on retainer.

 

[AVG-JOE]

I'm surprised that the TEA party doesn't rage more against the various self sustaining and growing Government Industrial Complexes churning through Trillion$ decade after decade.

Welfare reform will only get us so far...

 

[editec]

Does anybody doubt that the "military industrial complex" turned the tide of the FDR depression years? The WW2 "war effort" was touted as a symbol of the industrial might of the greatest Country in the world. Leave it to the radical (socialist) left to turn it into a dirty word.

So now President Eisenhower was a radical socialist?

 

[FA_Q2]

I'm surprised that the TEA party doesn't rage more against the various self sustaining and growing Government Industrial Complexes churning through Trillion$ decade after decade.

Welfare reform will only get us so far...

I am not. Being that they are closely ties with the republicans (even if they are a slightly separate movement within the group itself) means that they are far less prone to attack corporate subsidies as they are personal ones. In principal, they are against them AND if you talk to the tea party people they will tell you so but politically the republicans are not going to acknowledge that reality and the media is going to play up the angle that the politicians are drumming up.

Really, none of the guys at the top want to address that issue because then they would have to admit that they all have damn near identical positions even if the benefactors vary a bit.

 

[FA_Q2]

Does anybody doubt that the "military industrial complex" turned the tide of the FDR depression years? The WW2 "war effort" was touted as a symbol of the industrial might of the greatest Country in the world. Leave it to the radical (socialist) left to turn it into a dirty word.

So now President Eisenhower was a radical socialist?

He never used it as a dirty word. He cautioned against the power that it COULD gain. Now, when we speak of it, it is damn near a dirty word.

I would not go so far as to deem that the ‘radical socialists’ caused that though. The MIC did that on its own when the political narrative turned to a constant state of war.

 

[Pogo]

Does anybody doubt that the "military industrial complex" turned the tide of the FDR depression years? The WW2 "war effort" was touted as a symbol of the industrial might of the greatest Country in the world. Leave it to the radical (socialist) left to turn it into a dirty word.

So now President Eisenhower was a radical socialist?

Joe McCarthy said he was.

We're still paying for that assclown's damage.

 

[AVG-JOE]

Does anybody doubt that the "military industrial complex" turned the tide of the FDR depression years? The WW2 "war effort" was touted as a symbol of the industrial might of the greatest Country in the world. Leave it to the radical (socialist) left to turn it into a dirty word.

So now President Eisenhower was a radical socialist?

Joe McCarthy said he was.

We're still paying for that assclown's damage.

Mr. McCarthy tends to be an embarrassment to the average American Joe.

True story!​

 

[lobato1]

As a result, our country spends more in defense than the next dozen top defense spending countries:

Country 2011 current prices in billions

1. China, 142,859
2. Russia, 71,853
3. UK, 62,685
4. France, 62,535
5. Japan, 59,327
6. India, 48,889
7. Saudi Arabia, 48,531
8. Germany, 46,745
9. Brazil, 35,360
10. Italy, 34,501
11. S. Korea, 30,799
12. Australia, 26,706

Total 670,790
​

versus our country:

USA 711,421
​

My Reference: Military spending: how much does the military cost each country, listed | News | theguardian.com


In the last 2012 elections, the GOP campaigned to add a dozen new warships plus a new nuclear sub at a cost of two trillion more bucks for the following four years.

The question is:
Exactly how much is too much?

Sad.

Best Regards

Lobato1

The expression 'Military Industrial Complex' was coined in a warning from Dwight Eisenhower in his farewell address.

Military–industrial complex, or military–industrial–congressional complex, is a concept commonly used to refer to policy and monetary relationships between legislators, national armed forces, and the military industrial base that supports them. These relationships include political contributions, political approval for military spending, lobbying to support bureaucracies, and oversight of the industry. It is a type of iron triangle. The term is most often used in reference to the system behind the military of the United States, where it gained popularity after its use in the farewell address of President Dwight D. Eisenhower on January 17, 1961, though the term is applicable to any country with a similarly developed infrastructure.

Two questions up for debate...

1) Did it happen? Did industry* forge a noteworthy relationship with government at the expense of the populace?

2) If it did happen, does it matter?


*Military industry in particular, but when Americans see money changing hands, they learn quickly.

 

[Pogo]

So now President Eisenhower was a radical socialist?

Joe McCarthy said he was.

We're still paying for that assclown's damage.

Mr. McCarthy tends to be an embarrassment to the average American Joe.

True story!​

Say it ain't so, Joe!

Whoops -- I just made it worse, didn't I?

Seriously, I don't think the general public thinks of McCarthy upon hearing the name "Joe". Or Shoeless Jackson for that matter. McCarthy was a whole nother breed of subhuman.

 

[Pogo]

As a result, our country spends more in defense than the next dozen top defense spending countries:

Country 2011 current prices in billions

1. China, 142,859
2. Russia, 71,853
3. UK, 62,685
4. France, 62,535
5. Japan, 59,327
6. India, 48,889
7. Saudi Arabia, 48,531
8. Germany, 46,745
9. Brazil, 35,360
10. Italy, 34,501
11. S. Korea, 30,799
12. Australia, 26,706

Total 670,790
​

versus our country:

USA 711,421
​

My Reference: Military spending: how much does the military cost each country, listed | News | theguardian.com


In the last 2012 elections, the GOP campaigned to add a dozen new warships plus a new nuclear sub at a cost of two trillion more bucks for the following four years.

The question is:
Exactly how much is too much?

Sad.

Best Regards

Lobato1

A worthy perspective, this list. Cause for reflection.

Just for full perspective, if the RP wasn't drumming up a dozen new warships, the DP would be instead. All in the shortsighted name of "jobs for my district". This more than any other issue is why I consider them to be two different uniforms for the same Republicrat-Demoplican Party. There's not a lick of difference between them when they're both equally under the MIC thumb.