I've talked my wife into submitting an inquiry with the EEOC - Does she have a case?

[JGalt]

First let me give you some background: My wife has been employed by a two-point charge of United Methodist churches for the last 8 years. They are two small churches in the same town, both officiated by one pastor. She is responsible for taking care of all of the business, secretarial, bookkeeping, as well as helping the pastor with the sermons, choice of hymns, etc. She has worked there for 8 years and has a perfect work record. She is highly-thought of by the former pastor and the congregation of both churches, and basically kept them open and running during the entire pandemic.

The former pastor, who was a woman, was recently transferred to another church, as the UMC does with their pastors. The church received another pastor (again a woman) a couple months ago. My wife was in charge of breaking her in, getting her settled, and showing her the ropes. Their work relationship was good to start with but after a couple, months, it began to sour. The current pastor is now creating a hostile work environment. She does not communicate with my wife, hid a laptop that my wife was supposed to update weekly with Powerpoint presentations for the Sunday sermons, and even went to far as to change the password on the email client that was being used to conduct church business, without telling her. We recovered the password and notified the pastor of the new password.

One of the leading church members with whom my wife is friendly, has also told he that the pastor is working with the District Supervisor, and that they are trying to get rid of her. They can't fire her, because she is doing an outstanding job. Apparently they are trying to get her to quit.

My wife doesn't attend the churches she works for. She has attended a different United Methodist Church in town for the last 10 years. A movement recently began in her church to disaffiliate itself with the UMC, and the vote was held last Wednesday. The vote failed, and my wife as well as a large portion of the congregation is going to quit, and start a more conservative Methodist church.

During the whole time my wife has worked for those two churches, she has only mentioned disaffiliation in casual conversations with a couple people she's friendly with. She has done nothing to push disaffiliation at the two churches she works for, and has never stirred up any dissent. But now the District Supervisor and the new pastor are creating a toxic workplace environment, hoping she will quit.

This seems like a clear-cut case of religious discrimination, even if it is between different denominations. I have registered an account under her name, with the U.S. Equal Employment Opportunity Commission. I have asked my wife to document every instance of workplace hostility, in case we decide to file with the EEOC. There is also a meeting scheduled between the District Supervisor, the pastor of the church my wife works at, some of the board members, as well as my wife. We have made it clear to one of the members that they need to document everything said at this meeting, because it will be used as evidence, should we file a case. We'll see what happens.

For reference:

Religious Discrimination

 

[DGS49]

Nah. Your wife is an "employee at will." She can be removed for any reason but a prohibited reason, and there is no way you can pin this on "religious discrimination."

You will surely find a lawyer who will happily take your money, but move on. It would be unseemly. People are fired all the time because the new person doesn't like them. That's life.

 

[OhPleaseJustQuit]

First let me give you some background: My wife has been employed by a two-point charge of United Methodist churches for the last 8 years. They are two small churches in the same town, both officiated by one pastor. She is responsible for taking care of all of the business, secretarial, bookkeeping, as well as helping the pastor with the sermons, choice of hymns, etc. She has worked there for 8 years and has a perfect work record. She is highly-thought of by the former pastor and the congregation of both churches, and basically kept them open and running during the entire pandemic.

The former pastor, who was a woman, was recently transferred to another church, as the UMC does with their pastors. The church received another pastor (again a woman) a couple months ago. My wife was in charge of breaking her in, getting her settled, and showing her the ropes. Their work relationship was good to start with but after a couple, months, it began to sour. The current pastor is now creating a hostile work environment. She does not communicate with my wife, hid a laptop that my wife was supposed to update weekly with Powerpoint presentations for the Sunday sermons, and even went to far as to change the password on the email client that was being used to conduct church business, without telling her. We recovered the password and notified the pastor of the new password.

One of the leading church members with whom my wife is friendly, has also told he that the pastor is working with the District Supervisor, and that they are trying to get rid of her. They can't fire her, because she is doing an outstanding job. Apparently they are trying to get her to quit.

My wife doesn't attend the churches she works for. She has attended a different United Methodist Church in town for the last 10 years. A movement recently began in her church to disaffiliate itself with the UMC, and the vote was held last Wednesday. The vote failed, and my wife as well as a large portion of the congregation is going to quit, and start a more conservative Methodist church.

During the whole time my wife has worked for those two churches, she has only mentioned disaffiliation in casual conversations with a couple people she's friendly with. She has done nothing to push disaffiliation at the two churches she works for, and has never stirred up any dissent. But now the District Supervisor and the new pastor are creating a toxic workplace environment, hoping she will quit.

This seems like a clear-cut case of religious discrimination, even if it is between different denominations. I have registered an account under her name, with the U.S. Equal Employment Opportunity Commission. I have asked my wife to document every instance of workplace hostility, in case we decide to file with the EEOC. There is also a meeting scheduled between the District Supervisor, the pastor of the church my wife works at, some of the board members, as well as my wife. We have made it clear to one of the members that they need to document everything said at this meeting, because it will be used as evidence, should we file a case. We'll see what happens.

For reference:

Religious Discrimination

.

Best of luck to you and your wife.

Since your wife is indeed a religious person, I must withhold my advice, which would be to fight dirty, because THEY are.

*sigh*

Why can't people be better?

.

 

[JGalt]

Nah. Your wife is an "employee at will." She can be removed for any reason but a prohibited reason, and there is no way you can pin this on "religious discrimination."

You will surely find a lawyer who will happily take your money, but move on. It would be unseemly. People are fired all the time because the new person doesn't like them. That's life.

At-will employment does not mean that the employee is barred from pursuing a lawsuit against the employer. It only means that the employer and employee haven’t agreed between themselves to limit either party’s right to end the job relationship. In practical terms, employers must always be prepared to articulate a legitimate reason for discharging a worker. And how much could an EEOC lawyer possibly cost, besides the tax money we pay them?

 

[mak2]

First let me give you some background: My wife has been employed by a two-point charge of United Methodist churches for the last 8 years. They are two small churches in the same town, both officiated by one pastor. She is responsible for taking care of all of the business, secretarial, bookkeeping, as well as helping the pastor with the sermons, choice of hymns, etc. She has worked there for 8 years and has a perfect work record. She is highly-thought of by the former pastor and the congregation of both churches, and basically kept them open and running during the entire pandemic.

The former pastor, who was a woman, was recently transferred to another church, as the UMC does with their pastors. The church received another pastor (again a woman) a couple months ago. My wife was in charge of breaking her in, getting her settled, and showing her the ropes. Their work relationship was good to start with but after a couple, months, it began to sour. The current pastor is now creating a hostile work environment. She does not communicate with my wife, hid a laptop that my wife was supposed to update weekly with Powerpoint presentations for the Sunday sermons, and even went to far as to change the password on the email client that was being used to conduct church business, without telling her. We recovered the password and notified the pastor of the new password.

One of the leading church members with whom my wife is friendly, has also told he that the pastor is working with the District Supervisor, and that they are trying to get rid of her. They can't fire her, because she is doing an outstanding job. Apparently they are trying to get her to quit.

My wife doesn't attend the churches she works for. She has attended a different United Methodist Church in town for the last 10 years. A movement recently began in her church to disaffiliate itself with the UMC, and the vote was held last Wednesday. The vote failed, and my wife as well as a large portion of the congregation is going to quit, and start a more conservative Methodist church.

During the whole time my wife has worked for those two churches, she has only mentioned disaffiliation in casual conversations with a couple people she's friendly with. She has done nothing to push disaffiliation at the two churches she works for, and has never stirred up any dissent. But now the District Supervisor and the new pastor are creating a toxic workplace environment, hoping she will quit.

This seems like a clear-cut case of religious discrimination, even if it is between different denominations. I have registered an account under her name, with the U.S. Equal Employment Opportunity Commission. I have asked my wife to document every instance of workplace hostility, in case we decide to file with the EEOC. There is also a meeting scheduled between the District Supervisor, the pastor of the church my wife works at, some of the board members, as well as my wife. We have made it clear to one of the members that they need to document everything said at this meeting, because it will be used as evidence, should we file a case. We'll see what happens.

For reference:

Religious Discrimination

In Indiana they can fire you for any or no reason. It just cannot be one of the protected ones. Unless they tell her in front of a thousand witnesses they are firing her for religion, there is no case. In Indiana there is no job protection at all. I don't know where you are talking about.

 

[Baron Von Murderpaws]

Unless she has a paper trail of submitted, dated, and signed complaints for more than 6 months, she doesn't have anything.

Claiming religious discrimination in a religious job, managed by religious muckrakers, will just get her laughed at.

Sure, if you got the money for a lawyer, you can sue. It will just be a waste of money.

She has to prove willful intention on causing her pain and suffering. And I mean she HAS to have ROCK SOLID PROOF these people are doing these things to specificially get her fired or quit.

I'm a very highly rated employee where ever I go, but it doesn't matter. If they want you gone, they will have you gone, one way or the other.

They are playing corporate HR games on her, and she can either let it get to her, or shrug it all off and continue doing her job.


Now, if someone physically touches her after demeaning her or trying to belittle her, she has precidence for attempted physical harassment.
But unless she has a witness to this, it will be difficult to prove.

Unless she signed a contract of some kind for a guarantee of work/pay/position...........she can be fired for no reason at all. But they want to get out of paying her unemployment, so they are using the standard unethical HR practices to get her to quit so they DON'T have to pay her unemployment.

 

[JGalt]

Unless she has a paper trail of submitted, dated, and signed complaints for more than 6 months, she doesn't have anything.

Claiming religious discrimination in a religious job, managed by religious muckrakers, will just get her laughed at.

Sure, if you got the money for a lawyer, you can sue. It will just be a waste of money.

She has to prove willful intention on causing her pain and suffering. And I mean she HAS to have ROCK SOLID PROOF these people are doing these things to specificially get her fired or quit.

I'm a very highly rated employee where ever I go, but it doesn't matter. If they want you gone, they will have you gone, one way or the other.

They are playing corporate HR games on her, and she can either let it get to her, or shrug it all off and continue doing her job.


Now, if someone physically touches her after demeaning her or trying to belittle her, she has precidence for attempted physical harassment.
But unless she has a witness to this, it will be difficult to prove.

Unless she signed a contract of some kind for a guarantee of work/pay/position...........she can be fired for no reason at all. But they want to get out of paying her unemployment, so they are using the standard unethical HR practices to get her to quit so they DON'T have to pay her unemployment.

It's not really a big thing, other than the principle of getting fired because of retribution for being involved in a disaffiliation movement in another church. She's been thinking of looking for another job, and it would be more their loss than anything else. They would pretty much be shut down if she left.

 

[OhPleaseJustQuit]

It's not really a big thing, other than the principle of getting fired because of retribution for being involved in a disaffiliation movement in another church. She's been thinking of looking for another job, and it would be more their loss than anything else. They would pretty much be shut down if she left.

.

Well, hey then!

They get what they ask for.

.

 

[mak2]

It's not really a big thing, other than the principle of getting fired because of retribution for being involved in a disaffiliation movement in another church. She's been thinking of looking for another job, and it would be more their loss than anything else. They would pretty much be shut down if she left.

My Pastor at a United Church of Christ about 20 years ago was and hopefully still is a really great guy. He got transferred out not long after this. We were the only two at the church one day during the week he was telling me churches are probably the most dysfunctional places you can work. He talked for quite a while about it while I drank my diet coke, he was rather stressed out. Self righteousness, old bitties (his words) nosy people, difficulty finding help with church functions and on and on. Sounds like your wife was just on the wrong side of the palace intrigue. Good luck to her.

 

[Baron Von Murderpaws]

It's not really a big thing, other than the principle of getting fired because of retribution for being involved in a disaffiliation movement in another church. She's been thinking of looking for another job, and it would be more their loss than anything else. They would pretty much be shut down if she left.

If it really doesn't matter...........

Then she can try her own powerplay on them.

She can have a written complaint addressed to the EEOC, detailing incidents, names, and dates She can have a copy of this in hand when she goes to her boss for a chat.

She can tell them she knows they're playing unethical HR games with her, in order to get her to quit, which is NOT going to happen.

But if they want to avoid paying unemployment on her, she can demand.......in writing.........her greivances with the job, again, detailing everything and naming names.........along with her REQUIREMENTS for her leaving the position of her own free will.

I would suggest, if she wants to play hardball this way, she cannot back down and she has to be a tough old biddie to see this through.
I would HIGHLY suggest if she goes this route, the two main demands in her grievance letter should be THREE months severance pay and a HIGHLY regarded letter of reccomendation, signed by her boss and her bosses boss, as well as all the vacation and sick time she has built up, if any.

Other than that, she can just play along until whatever happens, happens.

 

[strollingbones]

i am sorry this is happening to you and your wife....her stress is your stress...i think the best advice is to move on

 

[Anathema]

I’m going to come at this from a different vantage point… a religious one. My family had a similar situation several decades ago when the church we were highly involved in had a pastor retire and called a new minister. He had a very different personality and way of doing things than the previous pastor.

Many members in this 130+ year old congregation were not prepared for or happy about it. Cliques developed very quickly and eventually led to a splintering of the congregation. My mother was the organist and music director. My father an elder. I was an elected officer of the church. I ended up moving out of state (for unrelated reasons). My mother and father decided it was better to move on to other churches and have nothing to do with the church they left.

I understand this may not be viable for financial reasons, but disconnecting from those congregations may just be a better idea than pressing legal action.

 

[DGS49]

Galt you disappoint me. People are fired all the time for personal, irrational, even counter-logical reasons. That's life. Those things have happened to me, but I have no illusions about "rights" that are nothing more than feelings.

Religious discrimination can be real and can be good grounds to challenge a firing, but the fact scenario described above doesn't make it.

 

[candycorn]

If you're in the south, you can be fired at any time for any reason in most of them.
Yay--right to work states.

No case.

 

[strollingbones]

Galt you disappoint me. People are fired all the time for personal, irrational, even counter-logical reasons. That's life. Those things have happened to me, but I have no illusions about "rights" that are nothing more than feelings.

Religious discrimination can be real and can be good grounds to challenge a firing, but the fact scenario described above doesn't make it.

the man has a spine and a heart seems he is wanting to do what could help his wife....doesnt mean he is right but it means he is trying to help his wife....we all have moments where we loose sight of what is going on and want to protect our loves ones at all cost...we are all guilty of it

o and btw who the fuck are you to be disappointed in anyone?

 

[JGalt]

the man has a spine and a heart seems he is wanting to do what could help his wife....doesnt mean he is right but it means he is trying to help his wife....we all have moments where we loose sight of what is going on and want to protect our loves ones at all cost...we are all guilty of it

o and btw who the fuck are you to be disappointed in anyone?

I'm not sure how to interpret that, but I can explain more about what is happening. The problem my wife is having is directly-related to her being involved in a disaffiliation movement in the church she attends. For decades now the United Methodist Church has been trending towards progressive theology that rejects the authority of Scripture, orthodox theology, and biblical sexual ethics. Even though the UMC the Book of Discipline still affirms key biblical positions, many UMC conferences and leaders, along with most of the bishops, have ignored the Book of Discipline and rejected Scriptural teachings. They are becoming a denomination that denies the truth and authority of Scripture and embraces unbiblical teachings, such as same-sex marriage and the ordination of openly gay clergy.

I applaud my wife and others for sticking to their faith and wanting to break away from the liberal churches’ continued defiance of the United Methodist Church’s own Book of Discipline, even if it means losing her job. She is doing what her conscience dictates, and I am 100% behind her.

 

[multivita-man]

First let me give you some background: My wife has been employed by a two-point charge of United Methodist churches for the last 8 years. They are two small churches in the same town, both officiated by one pastor. She is responsible for taking care of all of the business, secretarial, bookkeeping, as well as helping the pastor with the sermons, choice of hymns, etc. She has worked there for 8 years and has a perfect work record. She is highly-thought of by the former pastor and the congregation of both churches, and basically kept them open and running during the entire pandemic.

The former pastor, who was a woman, was recently transferred to another church, as the UMC does with their pastors. The church received another pastor (again a woman) a couple months ago. My wife was in charge of breaking her in, getting her settled, and showing her the ropes. Their work relationship was good to start with but after a couple, months, it began to sour. The current pastor is now creating a hostile work environment. She does not communicate with my wife, hid a laptop that my wife was supposed to update weekly with Powerpoint presentations for the Sunday sermons, and even went to far as to change the password on the email client that was being used to conduct church business, without telling her. We recovered the password and notified the pastor of the new password.

One of the leading church members with whom my wife is friendly, has also told he that the pastor is working with the District Supervisor, and that they are trying to get rid of her. They can't fire her, because she is doing an outstanding job. Apparently they are trying to get her to quit.

My wife doesn't attend the churches she works for. She has attended a different United Methodist Church in town for the last 10 years. A movement recently began in her church to disaffiliate itself with the UMC, and the vote was held last Wednesday. The vote failed, and my wife as well as a large portion of the congregation is going to quit, and start a more conservative Methodist church.

During the whole time my wife has worked for those two churches, she has only mentioned disaffiliation in casual conversations with a couple people she's friendly with. She has done nothing to push disaffiliation at the two churches she works for, and has never stirred up any dissent. But now the District Supervisor and the new pastor are creating a toxic workplace environment, hoping she will quit.

This seems like a clear-cut case of religious discrimination, even if it is between different denominations. I have registered an account under her name, with the U.S. Equal Employment Opportunity Commission. I have asked my wife to document every instance of workplace hostility, in case we decide to file with the EEOC. There is also a meeting scheduled between the District Supervisor, the pastor of the church my wife works at, some of the board members, as well as my wife. We have made it clear to one of the members that they need to document everything said at this meeting, because it will be used as evidence, should we file a case. We'll see what happens.

For reference:

Religious Discrimination

She could have a case of discrimination, but there has to be solid evidence, not speculation. Discrimination cases aren't nearly as easy to win as a lot of people imagine them to be.

But in seriousness, no bullshit, a heart-felt good luck to her. Even if she doesn't win damages, I hope she can find a work arrangement without all the stress she's clearly been dealing with here.

 

[JGalt]

She could have a case of discrimination, but there has to be solid evidence, not speculation. Discrimination cases aren't nearly as easy to win as a lot of people imagine them to be.

But in seriousness, no bullshit, a heart-felt good luck to her. Even if she doesn't win damages, I hope she can find a work arrangement without all the stress she's clearly been dealing with here.

We're not going to pursue it. She's decided to just move on and let them run their Sodomite church without her.

 

[multivita-man]

We're not going to pursue it. She's decided to just move on and let them run their Sodomite church without her.

Sometimes, moving on is the best move. I'm sorry she/you had to deal with crap, but what don't break you makes you tougher. Good luck.

 

[SweetSue92]

It's not really a big thing, other than the principle of getting fired because of retribution for being involved in a disaffiliation movement in another church. She's been thinking of looking for another job, and it would be more their loss than anything else. They would pretty much be shut down if she left.

I feel terrible for your wife. She sounds very conscientious and this must be painful for her.

I know this seems impractical for some but my advice to her would be: pray. The UMC churches that go the way of the world are going no where good. I know something of this split due to family involved. It's painful. It could be that God has something set up for her that would be a better fit.

Just prayed for her myself. Keep us posted.