It's over. The swamp is victorious.

[JohnPrewett]

Many develop hostility to God because they see that God is not doing this or that which they deem God should be doing.
Such as ending all suffering and death. Allowing evil doers to prevail.
These people are ignoring the element of TIMING.
God does things according to God’s schedule.

“To everything there is a season,
a time for every purpose under heaven:
a time to be born, and a time to die;
a time to plant, and a time to uproot what is planted;
Ecclesiastes 3:1-3

Those angry at God for not immediately doing this or that are ignoring the reality that God takes into account MANY factors which we are not aware of.

God is looking out for the eternal welfare of all God’s eternal children.
All humans are given opportunity to become a child of God.
But NO human is naturally born child of God.

“You must be born again”

 

[JohnPrewett]

..............
In fact, the OLD TESTAMENT makes no mention of life after death at all. .............

In addition to the witch calling Samuel up (1 Samuel 28)

The widow of Zarephath’s son (1 Kings 17:17–24). Elijah the prophet raised the widow of Zarephath’s son from the dead. Elijah was staying in an upper room of the widow’s house during a severe drought in the land. While he was there, the widow’s son became ill and died. In her grief, the woman brought the body of her son to Elijah with the assumption that his presence in her household had brought about the death of her boy as a judgment on her past sin. Elijah took the dead boy from her arms, went to the upper room, and prayed, “Lord my God, let this boy’s life return to him!” (verse 21). Elijah stretched himself out on the boy three times as he prayed, and “the Lord heard Elijah’s cry, and the boy’s life returned to him, and he lived” (verse 22). The prophet brought the boy to his mother, who was filled with faith in the power of God through Elijah: “Now I know that you are a man of God and that the word of the Lord from your mouth is the truth” (verse 24).

The Shunammite woman’s son (2 Kings 4:18–37). The prophet Elisha raised the Shunammite woman’s son from the dead. Elisha regularly stayed in Shunem in an upper room prepared for him by this woman and her husband. One day, while Elisha was at Mount Carmel, the couple’s young son died. The woman carried the body of her son to Elisha’s room and laid it on the bed (verse 21). Then, without even telling her husband the news, she departed for Carmel to find Elisha (verses 22–25). When she found Elisha, she pleaded with him to come to Shunem. Elisha sent his servant, Gehazi, ahead of them with instructions to lay Elisha’s staff on the boy’s face (verse 31). As soon as Elisha and the Shunammite woman arrived back home, Elisha went to the upper room, shut the door, and prayed. Then he stretched out on top of the boy’s body, and the body began to warm (verse 34). Elisha arose, walked about the room, and stretched himself out on the body again. The boy then sneezed seven times and awoke from death (verse 35). Elisha then delivered the boy, alive again, to his grateful mother (verses 36–37).

The man raised out of Elisha’s grave (2 Kings 13:20–21). Elisha is connected with another resurrection that occurred after his death. Sometime after Elisha had died and was buried, some men were burying another body in the same area. The grave diggers saw a band of Moabite raiders approaching, and, rather than risk an encounter with the Moabites, they threw the man’s body into Elisha’s grave. Scripture records that, “when the body touched Elisha’s bones, the man came to life and stood up on his feet” (verse 21).

 

[dblack]

The biggest problem with getting rid of Trump and his crew of swampsters is the sunk cost for those who fell for his schtick in the first place. It's really hard for most of us to admit to a mistake. It's even harder when the I-told-told-you-sos are coming from political opponents.

We need to find a way to skip the shaming and coax disenchanted Trump supporters back to the light.

 

[JoeB131]

Many develop hostility to God because they see that God is not doing this or that which they deem God should be doing.
Such as ending all suffering and death. Allowing evil doers to prevail.
These people are ignoring the element of TIMING.
God does things according to God’s schedule.

Those angry at God for not immediately doing this or that are ignoring the reality that God takes into account MANY factors which we are not aware of.

Guy, I'm not angry at God, I don't think he actually exists.

What I'm angry about is dumb ass, shit-kicking superstitious assholes like you exist, and generally fuck things up for the rest of us by passing stupid laws or electing politicians who hate the same people you and Jesus hate.

In addition to the witch calling Samuel up (1 Samuel 28)

yes, the book with ghosts and Zombies is totally credible.

What I'm not seeing there...any discussion of a soul or where it was when those people were dead.

 

[JohnPrewett]

Many develop hostility to God because they see that God is not doing this or that which they deem God should be doing.
Such as ending all suffering and death. Allowing evil doers to prevail.
These people are ignoring the element of TIMING.
God does things according to God’s schedule.

Those angry at God for not immediately doing this or that are ignoring the reality that God takes into account MANY factors which we are not aware of.

Guy, I'm not angry at God, I don't think he actually exists.

What I'm angry about is dumb ass, shit-kicking superstitious assholes like you exist,
and generally fuck things up for the rest of us by passing stupid laws or electing politicians
who hate the same people you and Jesus hate.

The Papacy/Pope is the epitome and pioneer and KINGPIN of the version of "Christian" that is intent on "passing stupid laws or electing politicians " ....
yet such as you bash non-political Christians such as me who oppose the Papacy.

In addition to the witch calling Samuel up (1 Samuel 28)

yes, the book with ghosts and Zombies is totally credible.
What I'm not seeing there...any discussion of a soul or where it was when those people were dead. [/QUOTE]

Joe B told me: "In fact, the OLD TESTAMENT makes no mention of life after death at all."

What I'm not seeing is Joe admitting he was wrong. The OT reveals some people brought back from the dead.
I agree the OT does not elaborate much about where they were .... but they were DEAD and then brought back.
Which confirms "life after death" ....... OK, Joe, quibble on.


Many (most ?) people have a hard time admitting being wrong.
44 years ago it was hard for me to admit I was wrong about God .... but I was.

 

[JoeB131]

The Papacy/Pope is the epitome and pioneer and KINGPIN of the version of "Christian" that is intent on "passing stupid laws or electing politicians " ....
yet such as you bash non-political Christians such as me who oppose the Papacy.

When it comes to politics, I have a little less problem with the Catholics (who actually do believe in things like taking care of the poor and helping the sick) than I do with the evangelical assholes, who think Jesus was as racist as fuck, just like they are.

What I'm not seeing is Joe admitting he was wrong. The OT reveals some people brought back from the dead.
I agree the OT does not elaborate much about where they were .... but they were DEAD and then brought back.
Which confirms "life after death" ....... OK, Joe, quibble on.

Yes, Zombies and ghosts aren't souls... that's the point.

I do find it interesting that m ost of the examples you cite come from stories about Elisha - the same guy who got bears to maul 42 kids for mocking his bald head - which has some bizarre ass stories that don't fit with the rest of the OT.

What's lacking- no mention of heaven. No mention of Hell. Yahweh kept the stupids in line by threatening them with punishments in THIS life. The whole "Sunshine and Puppies" bullshit came about later when they were competing with other religions.

Many (most ?) people have a hard time admitting being wrong.
44 years ago it was hard for me to admit I was wrong about God .... but I was.

No, dude, I'm not wrong. The Old Testament doesn't talk about an afterlife. A ghost a couple of Zombies an afterlife doesn't make.

 

[JohnPrewett]

Joe favors Papist camp that for centuries has sought to rule over temporal governments.
while simultaneously
Joe despises real Christians (previously called "heretics" by the RC cult)
who are non-political and who for centuries have exposed the Papal cult.

Understandable since he was raised RC and much of his family are members of that particular cult.


Joe still thinks his claim (" the OLD TESTAMENT makes no mention of life after death at all.") is accurate.
Never mind the OT accounts of people were dead, but brought back to life.

Like the RC cult in general, Joe scorns the Bible.
Yet out of other side of the RC mouth comes the claim that the Bible is a product of the RC cult !

 

[JohnPrewett]

 

[JoeB131]

Joe favors Papist camp that for centuries has sought to rule over temporal governments.
while simultaneously
Joe despises real Christians (previously called "heretics" by the RC cult)
who are non-political and who for centuries have exposed the Papal cult.

Moron. The Catholic Church is the original Cult. All your spinoffs are exactly that. You didn't like the rules and you made up your own.

Joe still thinks his claim (" the OLD TESTAMENT makes no mention of life after death at all.") is accurate.
Never mind the OT accounts of people were dead, but brought back to life.

Which isn't life after death. Now if one of those people said, "Oh My God,I was in Hell and it was really awful!!!" you might have a point. The thing is, the OT doesn't mention anywhere where those folks were.

For instance, where was Samuel's ghost when the Witch of Endor summoned it? Was it in Heaven with God?

If you accept that Saul was really talking to Samuel's ghost, then it implies that a witch- condemned by God - has the power to summon the spirits of the dead from wherever they are at... That's kind of theologically problematic for you guys.

Like the RC cult in general, Joe scorns the Bible.
Yet out of other side of the RC mouth comes the claim that the Bible is a product of the RC cult !

Of course it is.. The Catholic Church picked what books ended up in the bible, and which ones ended up as apocrypha

 

[JohnPrewett]

Joe says "Moron. The Catholic Church is the original Cult. All your spinoffs are exactly that. You didn't like the rules and you made up your own."

Wrong Joe.
The Original Church is revealed in Acts. Jesus's Church came into existence on the day of Pentecost.
Well over 300 years before Emperor Theodosius I empowered what the deceived think is the Church.

All the modern Trinitarian cults (RC and her Prot children) evolved from the Trinitarian Roman State "Church"
that was empowered by Emperor Theodosius I in 380 AD.

 

[JohnPrewett]

As for Samuel .... glad you brought him up. Point about Samuel is .... HE WAS ALIVE AFTER "DEATH" .... Having been a Godly man, I'm sure he was comfortable and well treated in the after-life. Obviously, for the witch to have called Samuel up .... means God allowed her to successfully do that. No problem.

 

[JohnPrewett]

Joe says: The Catholic Church picked what books ended up in the bible, and which ones ended up as apocrypha

Naturally an Atheist must contend the Bible was produced by ONLY MEN. As opposed to God inspiring the human authors.

But let me play along with Joe for a moment:
Revelation 17&18 describes a "Great Whore" connected to a "city of 7 hills".

For centuries all commentators (including RC one) agreed the "city of 7 hills" referred to ROME.
RC commentators contended the Great Whore was prePapal Rome.
For centuries nonRC commentators have (as I do) contended the Great Whore of Rome was the Vatican.
A main battle cry of the Reformation era Prots was that the Vatican was/is the Great Whore.

If Roman Catholics put the Bible together,
they were certainly quite careless when they included a description of a Great Whore
that in the opinion of millions for centuries is clearly perfectly fulfilled by the Vatican.

 

[Marion Morrison]

the Democrats, the neocons, the so-called conservatives, they all have proven themselves to be parts of the swamp. We knew the left was dirty, that goes without saying. Here we had an opportunity to drain the swamp and the swamp emerges victorious.

The guy we hired to drain the swamp? He got absorbed right into it. There is no difference between the left and the right at all. The left lies all the time, we know that but the right has also been lying. They had an opportunity to do great things and wtf did they do? They say on their hands and did nothing.

This Trumpcare fiasco is proof that they won't dare do anything. They don't really believe in free markets, they don't believe in personal responsibility, and they don't believe in small government.

They needed to stand behind the President while he was being attacked and lied about but what did they do? Not a damn thing.

Marco Rubio is my congresscritter. What did you do Marco? Not a damn thing. I will vote for whoever is running against you in the primaries, and if you win anyway, I will do my impression of Marco Rubio and sit on my hands come Election Day.

Have you actually checked Rubio's voting record? I'm saying it's pretty good. I've been watching him because..suspected globalist ties, but I think he's voted in a way that would make his daddy proud.

 

[JoeB131]

Wrong Joe.
The Original Church is revealed in Acts. Jesus's Church came into existence on the day of Pentecost.
Well over 300 years before Emperor Theodosius I empowered what the deceived think is the Church.

Here's the thing... ACTS is a lot of stories made up decades after the fact. You know, mythology. And the Church 300 years later picked up THAT group of myths as opposed to the other groups of myths

Category:Apocryphal Acts - Wikipedia

No less than 18 Apocryphal Acts of the Apostles

So how do we know that is the correct one? See the problem here, Buddy?

if you are going to argue that the later church got it wrong in the 4th century, the problem is, every other Christian sect also is getting it wrong, because we don't know what fake Epistles, Gospels, Acts and Revelations SHOULD be the right ones.

They picked out the ones that supported the political goal of making a Church the Empire could get behind, before it started splitting up into factions arguing about whether or not Jesus was made of wafers.

 

[JoeB131]

Naturally an Atheist must contend the Bible was produced by ONLY MEN. As opposed to God inspiring the human authors.

Um, yeah. Here's the thing, if the Bible were inspired by a perfect God, then why did they get so much stuff wrong.

Let's take an obvious one... why can't Luke and Matthew agree on who Jesus' ancestors were, where his parents came from, or when he was born? Instead, they both come up with literary devices to get him into Bethlehem, both of which are kind of ridiculous and not supported by other historical sources.

For centuries all commentators (including RC one) agreed the "city of 7 hills" referred to ROME.
RC commentators contended the Great Whore was prePapal Rome.
For centuries nonRC commentators have (as I do) contended the Great Whore of Rome was the Vatican.

yes, yes, yes... 2000 years of Catholic thinkers got it wrong, and Jack Chick, a guy whose art was so bad no comic book company would hire him, got it right.

 

[JoeB131]

As for Samuel .... glad you brought him up. Point about Samuel is .... HE WAS ALIVE AFTER "DEATH" .... Having been a Godly man, I'm sure he was comfortable and well treated in the after-life. Obviously, for the witch to have called Samuel up .... means God allowed her to successfully do that. No problem.

Why would God allow that when he already decreed, "Thou shall not suffer a witch to live?"

(Again, that bit of stupidity in the bible condemned thousands of women to horrible deaths)

But in this case, God was going to let a witch have power over Samuel's ghost or whatever (the bible makes no mention of where Sammy was hanging out) so he could rub salt in Saul's wounds?

Come to think of it, why did God pick Saul to be King to start with, when the guy was such an incredible fuckup?

 

[PredFan]

the Democrats, the neocons, the so-called conservatives, they all have proven themselves to be parts of the swamp. We knew the left was dirty, that goes without saying. Here we had an opportunity to drain the swamp and the swamp emerges victorious.

The guy we hired to drain the swamp? He got absorbed right into it. There is no difference between the left and the right at all. The left lies all the time, we know that but the right has also been lying. They had an opportunity to do great things and wtf did they do? They say on their hands and did nothing.

This Trumpcare fiasco is proof that they won't dare do anything. They don't really believe in free markets, they don't believe in personal responsibility, and they don't believe in small government.

They needed to stand behind the President while he was being attacked and lied about but what did they do? Not a damn thing.

Marco Rubio is my congresscritter. What did you do Marco? Not a damn thing. I will vote for whoever is running against you in the primaries, and if you win anyway, I will do my impression of Marco Rubio and sit on my hands come Election Day.

Have you actually checked Rubio's voting record? I'm saying it's pretty good. I've been watching him because..suspected globalist ties, but I think he's voted in a way that would make his daddy proud.

But what has he done to help? We have all three branches of government and we can't seem to get anything done. He and the rest of them are sitting on their hands. What has Marco done to support the President?
Not a damn thing.

 

[Rambunctious]

We have just begun to fight!

 

[JohnPrewett]

Wrong Joe. The Original Church is revealed in Acts. Jesus's Church came into existence on the day of Pentecost.
Well over 300 years before Emperor Theodosius I empowered what the deceived think is the Church.

Here's the thing... ACTS is a lot of stories made up decades after the fact. You know, mythology.
And the Church 300 years later picked up THAT group of myths as opposed to the other groups of myths Category:Apocryphal Acts - Wikipedia
No less than 18 Apocryphal Acts of the Apostles So how do we know that is the correct one? See the problem here, Buddy?

if you are going to argue that the later church got it wrong in the 4th century, the problem is, every other Christian sect also is getting it wrong,

because we don't know what fake Epistles, Gospels, Acts and Revelations SHOULD be the right ones.

They picked out the ones that supported the political goal of making a Church the Empire could get behind,
before it started splitting up into factions arguing about whether or not Jesus was made of wafers.

You are contending "the Church" (empowered by Rome in 380 AD) picked a "myth"
and that particular "myth" revealed the Church (sans pope and cardinals and not HQ in Rome) was born on a day the "myth" calls the "day of Pentecost."
"Day of Pentecost" being the day the disciples were empowered by the Holy Spirit.

Basically you are contending the Roman "Church" made into "scripture" a "myth" that undercuts the RC claim to be the "original Church"

Joe says: "if you are going to argue that the later church got it wrong in the 4th century, the problem is, every other Christian sect also is getting it wrong, "

All along I've contended that the 4th century Roman "Church" "got it wrong"
and indeed all the Christianish sects that came out of the Roman "Church" also got it wrong and have it wrong.

So where were the real Christians of history ? They were among those labeled "heretics'

 

[JoeB131]

So where were the real Christians of history ? They were among those labeled "heretics'

The "Real" Christians are the ones who love their neighbors, treat people the way they want to be treated, and take care of the poor. You know, Just like Jesus said.

That eliminates any hateful shit balls like you who read Jack Chick and think. "Yeah, hating Catholics and Jews and Mormons! That's what Jesus was all about."

Arguing over who was a heretic or the true church is pretty much as silly as this.