Israeli study: Civilians majority of Gaza war dead

nia588

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Aug 30, 2008
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JERUSALEM – Well over half of nearly 1,400 Palestinians killed in Israel's Gaza war were civilians, including 252 children younger than 16, a leading Israeli human rights groups said Wednesday, challenging Israel's claim that most of the dead were militants.

Determining the number of civilian casualties is seen as key in the ongoing debate over whether Israel, along with Hamas, violated the rules of war in its three-week offensive against Gaza's Hamas rulers last winter.

International human rights groups have said they suspect both sides committed war crimes — Israel by using disproportionate force in crowded Gaza, and Hamas by hiding behind civilians and indiscriminately firing rockets at Israeli towns.

The Israeli rights group B'Tselem on Wednesday published figures it said were compiled in months of research, including visits to families of victims. It said 1,387 Gazans were killed, including 773 civilians and 330 combatants. Thirteen Israelis also died, including four civilians.

The high number of Palestinian civilian deaths should compel the Israeli government to launch an independent investigation, the group said, adding that it considers the army's internal probe as flawed.

The military has acknowledged "rare mishaps" in its conduct during the war, but has denied it violated international humanitarian law. Israel refuses to cooperate with a U.N. war crimes investigation, alleging bias.

B'Tselem wrote that "the extremely heavy civilian casualties and the massive damage to civilian property require serious introspection on the part of Israeli society."

The military has put the Gaza death toll at 1,166, including 709 combatants and 295 civilians, but has refused to release a list of names or other evidence. The military said Wednesday that it believes B'Tselem's findings are based on flawed research, including reliance on what it said are exaggerated death tolls by Palestinian human rights groups.

Two Palestinian human rights groups have put the Gaza death toll at just over 1,400 and — like B'Tselem — released lists of names.

One explanation for some of the discrepancies between the army's figures and those of the human rights researchers is the definition of who is a combatant.

In defining combatants, B'Tselem included militants who are generally involved in fighting, even if at the moment of attack they are not taking part in hostilities.

The Israeli military appears to have used a more sweeping definition. During the war, Israeli officials said anyone involved with Hamas should consider himself a target.

B'Tselem spokeswoman Sarit Michaeli said researchers focused on civilians, particularly children and minors.

B'Tselem noted that 248 Palestinian police officers were killed while at their stations, most in surprise air strikes on the first day of the war. The group said it placed them in a separate category — neither combatant nor civilians — because their status could not be determined. The military counted them as combatants.

A key difference was found in the number of deaths of children under 16 — B'Tselem said it documented 252 deaths, while the military said it knew of 89 children killed in the war.

B'Tselem said the group's researchers visited homes and collected photos, death certificates and other documents relating to all those deaths. In all, 320 Gazans under 18, all of them noncombatants, were among the dead, B'Tselem said. In addition, 19 minors were counted as combatants.

Michaeli said B'Tselem could only dispatch two Gaza field workers since the military prevented outsiders, including Arabic-speaking researchers from Israel, from entering the territory.

In addition to its report, B'Tselem has sent details of about 20 cases with alleged violations of the law to Israel's military prosecutor. Suspicions include firing on civilians or using them as human shields, B'Tselem said.

B'Tselem noted that the military withheld details that would have enabled the group to cross-check information. The discrepancy between the army's figures and those of B'Tselem is "particularly blatant concerning minors," the group said.
Israeli study: Civilians majority of Gaza war dead - Yahoo! News
 
And this study isn't even bias as it was done by an Israeli human rights group.
 
much like anyone who voted for bush qualified as a 9/11 "soldier", eh? You motherfuckers are pathetic.

Give it up, nia. Threads like this will be silent. You won't see Ghook, Jillian or Elvis post here unless it is to tell you that you clearly hate jews and want to see as many of them dead as possible. It's the same ole same ole with the Scarlet A posse.
 
Threads like these are always ignored. People don't want to admit that Israel fucked up big time, because that would mean Israel is actually wrong. :eusa_eh:
 
good thread..get ready to be branded anti semite etc..doesnt matter if you post the truth....they will just slam the hell out of you...for daring to object.
 
Threads like these are always ignored. People don't want to admit that Israel fucked up big time, because that would mean Israel is actually wrong. :eusa_eh:

and that would mean that jews are just as human as germans in 1945. of COURSE being chosen means that ones shit just doesn't stink.
 
it's a shame no one cares about the innocent Palestinians getting killed.
 
:rofl:


but seriously... is ANYONE REALLY SHOCKED AT THE TOTAL SILENCE IN THIS THREAD? really? I could scold ghook with lukewarm vocabulary and Jillian will swoop in like a fucking chicken hawk chreeching antesemtism...

.....but you won't find a single one of them in a thread like this. shocked? really?
 
The terrorist (Hamas in this case and Hezbollah in Lebanon) hide within the populace. Don't wear uniforms. Fire missiles off of apartment buildings, schoolyards, mosques etc. When terrorist hide missiles and arms in civilian apartments (many times against the civilians wishes), mosque, hospitals and schools! When terrorist run into civilian locations for cover! When great terrorist warlord take in the children of their dead soldiers (which is noble in some respects), but house them at their homes to increase collateral damage when the terrorist is taken down!

Civilians die in all wars, ESPECIALLY in guerilla wars in which cowardly enemies specifically hide beyond and among civilians!

I blame the terrorist for the civilian death!
Attached is a picture of a missile fired from the Hamas terrorist! See where its fired from; The Heart of A CIVILIAN POPULACE!

For the record, Shogun go fuck yourself. You can respond to my posts all you want. I have you on ignore and likewise will ignore your cowardly venom!
 

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it's a shame no one cares about the innocent Palestinians getting killed.

WHAT BULLSHIT! If you hadn't noticed its Israelis making these claims! The enemies of Hamas!

So take your self-righteousness and shove it!


What you should be saying is it's a shame that the HAMAS terrorists don't care about innocent Palestinians getting killed. Otherwise they won't fire missiles from civilian populations, take the fight to civilian populations, wear uniforms, short weapons in schools and hospitals making them legit targets and backing Israel into a corner where she has no other option, but to launch a major operation!
 
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it's hilarious that you scream coward.. from behind blocking posts.


:rofl:


game. set. match.
 
no one cared about the men of the uss liberty either why be shocked now?
:offtopic:

What horseshit! People care! Jewish AMERICANS especially care! But what we don't care for is people like you dishonoring the men of the USS Liberty by using them as pawns to support anti-semitic (and in your case anti-Israel) agendas! I think there are 200 other threads on this subject, so I will leave it at that.
 
seriously.. is ANYONE shocked at ghook's input? at all? if ghook had a plane and palis had a skyscraper he'd already be telling you how necessary it is to fly into the goddamn building. Think about it.
 
The sad fact is that the Arab leadership cause the deaths of it's own citizens for propaganda reasons. They hide behind their own civilians knowing what the result will be.

Israel is then condemned for defending itself.

The Arabs are led by criminals. Their best day is when they can show off the destroyed remains of their own children.

A government and leadership are supposed do all they can to protect their own citizens. These criminals hide behind their citizens. Cause the deaths of their citizens. The citizens are as if they were hostages.

And, these criminals deserve a Palestinian State?

I think not.
 
....says people who would rather put palis behind a wall and kill them off then extend the same type of ethnic equality in israel as is enjoyed here in the US....
 
I've done some research on that wall. Yes, the wall does hurt Palestinian businesses, makes the city of Bethlehem look ugly, and encroach on some land designated for a future Palestinian state. But the Israelis built that wall to save themselves from crazy suicide bombers. And what better way to prove that Israel eventually wants a 2-state solution than to have some kind of border! As for Palestinians not being equal to Israelis, they are technically not Israeli citizens, but the Arabs within the Green Line are supposed to have equal rights. (Although Ethiopian and Oriental Jews experience some discrimination, and I was called "a spoiled American Jew" while living there, so Israeli Arabs might experience the same.) No one said Israel is a utopian society. The point is (and I have Israeli relatives so I know this) most Israelis want to negotiate an end to this tiresome conflict, but the Palestinians "never miss an opportunity to miss an opportunity" for peace.
 

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