Israeli soldier talks of orders as murder

[Kalam]

oh, i thought you had evidence of specific cases and not sending me on a wild goose chase

Let me google that for you

Yeah Just Google "Israeli Gaza ATTROCITIES" and you'll be LOADED DOWN with pro-terrorist propaganda which promotes the interests of radical islam through half truths and outright lies, over the enemies of Islam...

YOU!

ROFLMNAO... oh you're ALL OVER IT Kazam...

 

[Kalam]

Well, That does suit you... and it is culturally accurate.

 

[Kalam]

oh, i thought you had evidence of specific cases and not sending me on a wild goose chase

Let me google that for you

#1, i dont click on tinyurl links because they can take you ANYWHERE
#2 if that is just a link to a google search, FUCK OFF

when you really want to show your proof come back
otherwise stay the fuck OFF

Don't get your fucking Huggies in a bunch.

 

[DiveCon]

Let me google that for you

#1, i dont click on tinyurl links because they can take you ANYWHERE
#2 if that is just a link to a google search, FUCK OFF

when you really want to show your proof come back
otherwise stay the fuck OFF

Don't get your fucking Huggies in a bunch.

giving a link to a google search is about as lame as it gets
its not an answer

 

[Kalam]

I did the google search for you... I figured you could click on the links yourself. I'm not going to do that for you. Hell, even if I did, you'd probably deny anything negative about the IDF. I figured you had at least a bit of sense in you, but your flat-out denial of evidence right in front of your face makes it difficult for me to believe that you're any better than the unthinking automatons who make up the majority of both sides of the debate.

 

[DiveCon]

I did the google search for you... I figured you could click on the links yourself. I'm not going to do that for you. Hell, even if I did, you'd probably deny anything negative about the IDF. I figured you had at least a bit of sense in you, but your flat-out denial of evidence right in front of your face makes it difficult for me to believe that you're any better than the unthinking automatons who make up the majority of both sides of the debate.

and you have proven that you will take any story that is anti-Israel and run with it regardless of what it actually says
i'm skeptical of ALL news sources
there isnt one i will trust
when i read them i know they are lying or twisting something, because everyone has a bias of some lkind, its the facts in the story that will tell me if the story seems reliable or not
when they say "some people did X" but dont name them or if their source is unnamed, then it raises huge questions
you, on the other hand are willing to believe anything as long as its anti-Israel

 

[Kalam]

and you have proven that you will take any story that is anti-Israel and run with it regardless of what it actually says
i'm skeptical of ALL news sources
there isnt one i will trust
when i read them i know they are lying or twisting something, because everyone has a bias of some lkind, its the facts in the story that will tell me if the story seems reliable or not
when they say "some people did X" but dont name them or if their source is unnamed, then it raises huge questions
you, on the other hand are willing to believe anything as long as its anti-Israel

Nonsense. If most of the posters here were fanatical Hamas supporters instead of fanatical IDF supporters, I'd be having the same arguments with them. You deny legitimate news when it doesn't suit your political opinion to admit that it's true. Denial is not skepticism.

 

[DiveCon]

and you have proven that you will take any story that is anti-Israel and run with it regardless of what it actually says
i'm skeptical of ALL news sources
there isnt one i will trust
when i read them i know they are lying or twisting something, because everyone has a bias of some lkind, its the facts in the story that will tell me if the story seems reliable or not
when they say "some people did X" but dont name them or if their source is unnamed, then it raises huge questions
you, on the other hand are willing to believe anything as long as its anti-Israel

Nonsense. If most of the posters here were fanatical Hamas supporters instead of fanatical IDF supporters, I'd be having the same arguments with them. You deny legitimate news when it doesn't suit your political opinion to admit that it's true. Denial is not skepticism.

you do as well
you only accept the bullshit you can twist to be anti-Israel

 

[Kalam]

you do as well
you only accept the bullshit you can twist to be anti-Israel

No, I don't. If somebody proves me wrong by linking to a credible news story, I'll swallow my pride, admit it, and move on.

 

[DiveCon]

you do as well
you only accept the bullshit you can twist to be anti-Israel

No, I don't. If somebody proves me wrong by linking to a credible news story, I'll swallow my pride, admit it, and move on.

then why is it you want to paint the entire IDF with what even your source says "some"

that is why you look like an asshole to me at this point

 

[Kalam]

then why is it you want to paint the entire IDF with what even your source says "some"

that is why you look like an asshole to me at this point

The only thing I've said against the entire IDF is that it doesn't do enough to prevent racism and misconduct within its own ranks.

 

[Epsilon Delta]

then why is it you want to paint the entire IDF with what even your source says "some"

that is why you look like an asshole to me at this point

The only thing I've said against the entire IDF is that it doesn't do enough to prevent racism and misconduct within its own ranks.

Dead Palestinian babies and bombed mosques - IDF fashion 2009 - Haaretz - Israel News

Dead babies, mothers weeping on their children's graves, a gun aimed at a child and bombed-out mosques - these are a few examples of the images Israel Defense Forces soldiers design these days to print on shirts they order to mark the end of training, or of field duty. The slogans accompanying the drawings are not exactly anemic either: A T-shirt for infantry snipers bears the inscription "Better use Durex," next to a picture of a dead Palestinian baby, with his weeping mother and a teddy bear beside him. A sharpshooter's T-shirt from the Givati Brigade's Shaked battalion shows a pregnant Palestinian woman with a bull's-eye superimposed on her belly, with the slogan, in English, "1 shot, 2 kills." A "graduation" shirt for those who have completed another snipers course depicts a Palestinian baby, who grows into a combative boy and then an armed adult, with the inscription, "No matter how it begins, we'll put an end to it."

There are also plenty of shirts with blatant sexual messages. For example, the Lavi battalion produced a shirt featuring a drawing of a soldier next to a young woman with bruises, and the slogan, "Bet you got raped!" A few of the images underscore actions whose existence the army officially denies - such as "confirming the kill" (shooting a bullet into an enemy victim's head from close range, to ensure he is dead), or harming religious sites, or female or child non-combatants. In many cases, the content is submitted for approval to one of the unit's commanders. The latter, however, do not always have control over what gets printed, because the artwork is a private initiative of soldiers that they never hear about. Drawings or slogans previously banned in certain units have been approved for distribution elsewhere. For example, shirts declaring, "We won't chill 'til we confirm the kill" were banned in the past (the IDF claims that the practice doesn't exist), yet the Haruv battalion printed some last year.

The slogan "Let every Arab mother know that her son's fate is in my hands!" had previously been banned for use on another infantry unit's shirt. A Givati soldier said this week, however, that at the end of last year, his platoon printed up dozens of shirts, fleece jackets and pants bearing this slogan.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/03/20/world/middleeast/20gaza.html?scp=2&sq=gaza accounts&st=cse

Now testimony is emerging from within the ranks of soldiers and officers alleging a permissive attitude toward the killing of civilians and reckless destruction of property that is sure to inflame the domestic and international debate about the army’s conduct in Gaza. On Thursday, the military’s chief advocate general ordered an investigation into a soldier’s account of a sniper killing a woman and her two children who walked too close to a designated no-go area by mistake, and another account of a sharpshooter who killed an elderly woman who came within 100 yards of a commandeered house.

When asked why that elderly woman was killed, a squad commander was quoted as saying: “What’s great about Gaza — you see a person on a path, he doesn’t have to be armed, you can simply shoot him. In our case it was an old woman on whom I did not see any weapon when I looked. The order was to take down the person, this woman, the minute you see her. There are always warnings, there is always the saying, ‘Maybe he’s a terrorist.’ What I felt was, there was a lot of thirst for blood.”

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/03/20/world/middleeast/21gaza.html?scp=3&sq=gaza accounts&st=cse

The soldier was quoted as saying that the rabbis had “brought in a lot of booklets and articles,” adding, “their message was very clear: We are the Jewish people, we came to this land by a miracle. God brought us back to this land, and now we need to fight to expel the non-Jews who are interfering with our conquest of this holy land.”

He said that as a commander, he had tried to explain to his men that “not everyone who is in Gaza is Hamas,” and that “this war was not a war for the sanctification of the holy name, but rather one to stop the Qassam rockets.”

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/03/22/weekinreview/22BRONNER.html?scp=4&sq=gaza accounts&st=cse

Dany Zamir, the director of the one-year premilitary course who solicited the testimonies and then leaked them, leading to a promise by the military to investigate, is quoted in the transcripts as expressing anguish over the growing religious nationalist elements of the military.
“If clerics are anointing us with oil and sticking holy books in our hands, and if the soldiers in these units aren’t representative of the whole spectrum of the Jewish people, but rather of certain segments of the population, what can we expect?” he said. “To whom do we complain?”

For the first four decades of Israel’s existence, the army — like many of the country’s institutions — was dominated by kibbutz members who saw themselves as secular, Western and educated. In the past decade or two, religious nationalists, including many from the settler movement in the West Bank, have moved into more and more positions of military responsibility.

 

[DiveCon]

yeah, so what
thase are NOT done by the IDF
we've alread established that


ED, you have added NOTHING here

 

[PubliusInfinitum]

yeah, so what
thase are NOT done by the IDF
we've alread established that


ED, you have added NOTHING here

Oh I disagree, ED has added yet another example of a pro-terrorist propaganda.

Remember, the IDF is a uniformed Military which stands in defense of a sovereign nation. Hamas is a non-uniformed, para-military which hides behind the dead babies and woman of Palestine; who intentionally target innocent people; whose ONLY purpose in existance is to MURDER innocent people, who then run to cry WAR CRIME when the PEOPLE THAT THEY HIDE BEHIND ARE INJURED OR KILLED...


The Palestinians are professional victims... they're the ideology of slip and fall con-artists. They spill blood, drop and roll arond in it, then claim that the person who is injured by their blood spilling con, is responsible for the blood in which they're soaked.

Ed and Haji Kazam are here show us the photos of the blood soaked Palestinains AS PROOF...

ROFL... Leftists...

 

[Epsilon Delta]

Oh I disagree, ED has added yet another example of a pro-terrorist propaganda.

Huh???

The New York Times - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The New York Times is an American daily newspaper founded in 1851 and published in New York City. The largest metropolitan newspaper in the United States, "The Gray Lady"—named for its staid appearance and style—is regarded as a national newspaper of record.

Haaretz - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Haaretz (Hebrew: הארץ&#8206 (lit. "The Land", originally Hadashot Ha'aretz - "News of the Land"[2]) is Israel's oldest daily newspaper. It was founded in 1918 and is now published in both Hebrew and English in Berliner format. The English edition is published and sold together with the International Herald Tribune. Both Hebrew and English editions can be read on the Internet. In North America, it comes out as a weekly newspaper, combining articles from the Friday edition with a roundup from the rest of the week.

 

[dj defkawn]

Publius you are truly the expert on intellectual inadequacies lol. It's because of brilliant individuals like yourself, why world bodies have enacted humanitarian laws. You seem to forget that due to a blockade imposed by Israel that the civilians of Gaza had no where to flee. That even if you were forced to be iin a building by Hamas or if you stayed in doors for the sake of trying to be out of harms way, you were in the cross hairs all the same. Even if a civilian was forced by a Hamas militia-man to be used as a human shield in a fire fight, that doesn't make that persons death any less worthful. There is undeniable evidence that the IDF which is supposed to be a professional uniformed military carried out acts that constitute a gross violation of international humanitarian laws. Information coming from sources ranging from Amnesty International to UN Security Council itself. The problems here aren't the legitimate striking of actual significant targets. It's the stuff like parading an 11 year old boy in front of a military unit when they are out on patrol. It's the leveling of entire neighborhoods because the area posed a "security risk," it's the gunning down and killing of civilians no where near actual Hamas fighters.

So seeing how you claim the postings provided by ED are pro-terrorist lies and propaganda?? Stories from Haaretz a Jewish daily news publication made by Jews in Israel, and other postings from the New York Times, a major newpaper made here in the United States?? With little evidence to prove that theory then your own obviously racially biased personal opinion to back up your claims, where is your proof exactly lol???

 

[Epsilon Delta]

I think that's quite correct- they don't arrive at the conclusions by reading the news and the reports of organizations that are actually on site (unlike any of us, who've got absolutely no fuckin' clue BECAUSE WE'RE NOT THERE)- they must arrive at their conclusions internally, in a doctrinal manner, engulfed by their own prejudices. That's why news don't matter. Paper? Propaganda. Website? Propaganda. International Organization? Propaganda. Human Rights NGOs? Propaganda. Statements by Israeli soldiers? Propaganda. Statements by any single Palestinian, regardless of status or political affiliation? Totally out of the question. And this is so regardless of what the source actually is- even if they're Israelis themselves, even if it's the national paper of record of the United States, even well respectable ISRAELI human rights organizations, or Specialized Agencies etc. etc. No amount of evidence can shake their "belief".

The truth is that unless you've got a buddy in the West Bank giving you weekly updates on the situation, the news is as good as you're going to get. And the news look pretty bad. If you care reading the Haaretz piece, one has to admit that it's pretty nasty stuff. The allegations about the snipers, and how everything in Gaza was pretty much fair game, AND the growing number of Religious-Nationalists in the army staff, rabbis handing out religious books and calling it a holy war... I mean, it's worrying. And this is coming out of a ISRAELI MILITARY ACADEMY?! I just fail to see how the Islamofascist UN-Hamas Axis Propaganda machine managed to pull that one off. So that leads me to believe that both the NY times AND BBC AND Haaretz and everybody else are all simultaneously orchestrating a gigantic propaganda lie... in opposition to the American government's position of supporting Israel unconditionally? It's hard to believe the world turned upside down all of a sudden.

 

[Shogun]

when in doubt, scream ANTISEMITE!

sad.. very pathetic, actually.

 

[traderjoe17]

when in doubt, scream ANTISEMITE!

sad.. very pathetic, actually.

Oh, God no. You're all about the Jew love.

 

[Shogun]

when in doubt, scream ANTISEMITE!

sad.. very pathetic, actually.

Oh, God no. You're all about the Jew love.

"jew love" doesn't amount to "jew blank check favoratism" in my book. You've never seen me calling for the mass extermination of a single jewish population like you HAVE seen DavidS "joke" about. By all means, if you can find a quote of mine then post it. Remember, IM the one whose position is based on pluralism and democratic equality despite race...

now, go put your pussy back in your pants before someone else makes it bleed all over the carpet again.