Israeli settlers set fire, Israel initially blamed Palestinians.

[RoccoR]

RE: Israeli settlers set fire, Israel initially blamed Palestinians.
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

OK, yes, they stated that BEFORE the Declaration of Independence.

Article 16 is what it is. It clearly "renounces all rights and title" into the hands of the "parties concerned." The parties concerned were the Allied Powers and NOT any representative of any Arab concern.

Why you are trying to bend this around is beyond me.

• Everything the Allied Powers did was within their authority to do.

• Everything the Mandatory did was within their authority to do.

• The acceptance (by the National Council for the Jewish State) of the offer by within A/RES/181 (II) was within their authority to do.

• The exercise of the "right of self-determination" by the Jewish People was within their right to do.
​

Maybe it is my imagination, but it seems to me that you take issue with one or more of these statements; all of which took place more than a half-century ago. →

◈ IF you challenge one of these statements,

◈ THEN identify which one it is.​

Indeed, all of Palestine was transferred to the care of the UN. Neither the Mandates nor the UN held title to the territory therefore neither could transfer the territory to another party.

Britain called Palestine a legal entity and a non self governing territory.

(POINT OF ORDER)

The UK memo said, in February 1948 (A/AC.21/UK/42 25 February 1948) that:

• Palestine is today a legal entity but it is not a sovereign state.
...................................................and
• After the 15th May, 1948, Palestine will continue to be a legal entity but it will still not be a sovereign state because it will not be immediately self-governing.​

This corrects your quote:

❖ "non self governing territory" is not the same as "not be immediately self-governing"​

These comments were made in connection with the "LEGAL MEANING OF THE “TERMINATION OF THE MANDATE.”

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[RoccoR]

RE: Israeli settlers set fire, Israel initially blamed Palestinians.
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

I cannot believe you said this...

Let me know when Palestine and Israel sign that document.

(COMMENT)

Neither "Palestine" nor "Israel" existed at the time and therefore, were not competent to enter into a treaty under international law.

It does not matter what you think on the matter of implementation. It only matters what works (politically) and the outcome (in reality).

Whatever you might think, there was a State of Israel created in May 1948. The Arab League objected, a war was fought, and the State of Israel prevailed.

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[P F Tinmore]

RE: Israeli settlers set fire, Israel initially blamed Palestinians.
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

OK, yes, they stated that BEFORE the Declaration of Independence.

Article 16 is what it is. It clearly "renounces all rights and title" into the hands of the "parties concerned." The parties concerned were the Allied Powers and NOT any representative of any Arab concern.

Why you are trying to bend this around is beyond me.

• Everything the Allied Powers did was within their authority to do.

• Everything the Mandatory did was within their authority to do.

• The acceptance (by the National Council for the Jewish State) of the offer by within A/RES/181 (II) was within their authority to do.

• The exercise of the "right of self-determination" by the Jewish People was within their right to do.
​

Maybe it is my imagination, but it seems to me that you take issue with one or more of these statements; all of which took place more than a half-century ago. →

◈ IF you challenge one of these statements,

◈ THEN identify which one it is.​

Indeed, all of Palestine was transferred to the care of the UN. Neither the Mandates nor the UN held title to the territory therefore neither could transfer the territory to another party.

Britain called Palestine a legal entity and a non self governing territory.

(POINT OF ORDER)

The UK memo said, in February 1948 (A/AC.21/UK/42 25 February 1948) that:

• Palestine is today a legal entity but it is not a sovereign state.
...................................................and
• After the 15th May, 1948, Palestine will continue to be a legal entity but it will still not be a sovereign state because it will not be immediately self-governing.​

This corrects your quote:

❖ "non self governing territory" is not the same as "not be immediately self-governing"​

These comments were made in connection with the "LEGAL MEANING OF THE “TERMINATION OF THE MANDATE.”

Most Respectfully,
R

But the propaganda states that when the Mandate left, there was no more Palestine.

 

[Shusha]

But the propaganda states that when the Mandate left, there was no more Palestine.

The "propaganda" states (and is clearly born out by reality) that when the governing trustee of the Mandate left, there was a Self-Governing and Independent State of Israel (which fulfilled the Mandate of a Jewish National Homeland).

 

[P F Tinmore]

RE: Israeli settlers set fire, Israel initially blamed Palestinians.
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

I cannot believe you said this...

Let me know when Palestine and Israel sign that document.

(COMMENT)

Neither "Palestine" nor "Israel" existed at the time and therefore, were not competent to enter into a treaty under international law.

It does not matter what you think on the matter of implementation. It only matters what works (politically) and the outcome (in reality).

Whatever you might think, there was a State of Israel created in May 1948. The Arab League objected, a war was fought, and the State of Israel prevailed.

Most Respectfully,
R

But that had nothing to do with resolution 181. Neither party wanted it.

 

[P F Tinmore]

RE: Israeli settlers set fire, Israel initially blamed Palestinians.
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

I cannot believe you said this...

Let me know when Palestine and Israel sign that document.

(COMMENT)

Neither "Palestine" nor "Israel" existed at the time and therefore, were not competent to enter into a treaty under international law.

It does not matter what you think on the matter of implementation. It only matters what works (politically) and the outcome (in reality).

Whatever you might think, there was a State of Israel created in May 1948. The Arab League objected, a war was fought, and the State of Israel prevailed.

Most Respectfully,
R

Neither "Palestine" nor "Israel" existed at the time and therefore, were not competent to enter into a treaty under international law.

So then why did both parties have to agree with it before it could be implemented?

 

[RoccoR]

RE: Israeli settlers set fire, Israel initially blamed Palestinians.
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

When the Mandate Terminates: Once Again!

[QUOTE="P F Tinmore, post: 22439646, member: 21837
But the propaganda states that when the Mandate left, there was no more Palestine.[/QUOTE]
(COMMENT)

READ: MEMORANDUM “A” LEGAL MEANING OF THE “TERMINATION OF THE MANDATE” RESTRICTED A/AC.21/UK/42 25 February 1948

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[RoccoR]

RE: Israeli settlers set fire, Israel initially blamed Palestinians.
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

The partition arrangement and the recommended two-state solution was a compromise.

But that had nothing to do with resolution 181. Neither party wanted it.

(COMMENT)

Israel followed the recommendation (ie A/RES/181). The Arab Palestinians did not.

Israel emerged with a State. The Arab Palestinians did not.

It is just that simple.

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[RoccoR]

RE: Israeli settlers set fire, Israel initially blamed Palestinians.
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

Both parties DID NOT have to agree to anything. A/RES/181 (II) was a recommended solution.

Neither "Palestine" nor "Israel" existed at the time and therefore, were not competent to enter into a treaty under international law.

So then why did both parties have to agree with it before it could be implemented?

(COMMENT)

READ the RECOMMENDATION:

F. ADMISSION TO MEMBERSHIP IN THE UNITED NATIONS

When the independence of → either the Arab or the Jewish State → as envisaged in this plan has become effective and the declaration and undertaking, as envisaged in this plan, have been signed by either of them, sympathetic consideration should be given to its application for admission to membership in the United Nations in accordance with Article 4 of the Charter of the United Nations.

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[P F Tinmore]

RE: Israeli settlers set fire, Israel initially blamed Palestinians.
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

The partition arrangement and the recommended two-state solution was a compromise.

But that had nothing to do with resolution 181. Neither party wanted it.

(COMMENT)

Israel followed the recommendation (ie A/RES/181). The Arab Palestinians did not.

Israel emerged with a State. The Arab Palestinians did not.

It is just that simple.

Most Respectfully,
R

Israel followed the recommendation (ie A/RES/181). The Arab Palestinians did not.

Load of hooey, Rocco. Israel violated virtually everything in Resolution 181 before they mentioned it in their declaration of independence to pretend to be legitimate.

 

[P F Tinmore]

RE: Israeli settlers set fire, Israel initially blamed Palestinians.
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

Both parties DID NOT have to agree to anything. A/RES/181 (II) was a recommended solution.

I cannot believe you said this...

Let me know when Palestine and Israel sign that document.

(COMMENT)

Neither "Palestine" nor "Israel" existed at the time and therefore, were not competent to enter into a treaty under international law.

It does not matter what you think on the matter of implementation. It only matters what works (politically) and the outcome (in reality).

Whatever you might think, there was a State of Israel created in May 1948. The Arab League objected, a war was fought, and the State of Israel prevailed.

Most Respectfully,
R

Neither "Palestine" nor "Israel" existed at the time and therefore, were not competent to enter into a treaty under international law.

So then why did both parties have to agree with it before it could be implemented?

Both parties DID NOT have to agree to anything. A/RES/181 (II) was a recommended solution.

Indeed, non binding and rejected. I don't know why people keep bringing it up.

Then Israel lied (like they do about everything) about accepting it.

 

[RoccoR]

RE: Israeli settlers set fire, Israel initially blamed Palestinians.
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

And you keep fighting the reality. Remember the rest of the world operates according to Hoyle, not the Book of Tinmore.

Indeed, non binding and rejected. I don't know why people keep bringing it up.

Then Israel lied (like they do about everything) about accepting it.

(COMMENT)

During today's brief meeting, Dr. Eduardo Morgan (Panama) said that this resolution of the Assembly merely "relieves responsibility. The Commission has not been dissolved. In fact the resolution of last November 29 has been implemented."
SOURCE: PAL/169 17 May 1948

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[RoccoR]

RE: Israeli settlers set fire, Israel initially blamed Palestinians.
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

OH, get off the high horse.

Israel followed the recommendation (ie A/RES/181). The Arab Palestinians did not.

Load of hooey, Rocco. Israel violated virtually everything in Resolution 181 before they mentioned it in their declaration of independence to pretend to be legitimate.

(COMMENT)

The Israelis completed every one of the Steps Preparatory to Independence in the recommendation (Part IB). The UN Palestine Commission, guided in its activities by the recommendations of the General Assembly and by such instructions as the Security Council may consider necessary to issue, considered the requirements completed and furthered the act of self-determination by the National Council for the Jewish State.

But even if not one single step was completed, there is nothing under international law that says the self-determination [Article 1(2), UN Charter] is subject to the approval of "Tinmore."

There is nothing under International Law that limits the rights of the Jewish people in regards to:

(a) The right to self-determination, without external interference from the Arab League, in the establishment of an independent state;

(b) The right to establish its own independent sovereign State;
​

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[P F Tinmore]

RE: Israeli settlers set fire, Israel initially blamed Palestinians.
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

OH, get off the high horse.

Israel followed the recommendation (ie A/RES/181). The Arab Palestinians did not.

Load of hooey, Rocco. Israel violated virtually everything in Resolution 181 before they mentioned it in their declaration of independence to pretend to be legitimate.

(COMMENT)

The Israelis completed every one of the Steps Preparatory to Independence in the recommendation (Part IB). The UN Palestine Commission, guided in its activities by the recommendations of the General Assembly and by such instructions as the Security Council may consider necessary to issue, considered the requirements completed and furthered the act of self-determination by the National Council for the Jewish State.

But even if not one single step was completed, there is nothing under international law that says the self-determination [Article 1(2), UN Charter] is subject to the approval of "Tinmore."

There is nothing under International Law that limits the rights of the Jewish people in regards to:

(a) The right to self-determination, without external interference from the Arab League, in the establishment of an independent state;

(b) The right to establish its own independent sovereign State;
​

Most Respectfully,
R

But even if not one single step was completed, there is nothing under international law that says the self-determination [Article 1(2), UN Charter] is subject to the approval of "Tinmore."

List the tenets of resolution 181 and see that Israel violated virtually all of them.

 

[P F Tinmore]

RE: Israeli settlers set fire, Israel initially blamed Palestinians.
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

OH, get off the high horse.

Israel followed the recommendation (ie A/RES/181). The Arab Palestinians did not.

Load of hooey, Rocco. Israel violated virtually everything in Resolution 181 before they mentioned it in their declaration of independence to pretend to be legitimate.

(COMMENT)

The Israelis completed every one of the Steps Preparatory to Independence in the recommendation (Part IB). The UN Palestine Commission, guided in its activities by the recommendations of the General Assembly and by such instructions as the Security Council may consider necessary to issue, considered the requirements completed and furthered the act of self-determination by the National Council for the Jewish State.

But even if not one single step was completed, there is nothing under international law that says the self-determination [Article 1(2), UN Charter] is subject to the approval of "Tinmore."

There is nothing under International Law that limits the rights of the Jewish people in regards to:

(a) The right to self-determination, without external interference from the Arab League, in the establishment of an independent state;

(b) The right to establish its own independent sovereign State;
​

Most Respectfully,
R

The creation of Israel in Palestine has many problems.

 

[rylah]

RE: Israeli settlers set fire, Israel initially blamed Palestinians.
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

OH, get off the high horse.

Israel followed the recommendation (ie A/RES/181). The Arab Palestinians did not.

Load of hooey, Rocco. Israel violated virtually everything in Resolution 181 before they mentioned it in their declaration of independence to pretend to be legitimate.

(COMMENT)

The Israelis completed every one of the Steps Preparatory to Independence in the recommendation (Part IB). The UN Palestine Commission, guided in its activities by the recommendations of the General Assembly and by such instructions as the Security Council may consider necessary to issue, considered the requirements completed and furthered the act of self-determination by the National Council for the Jewish State.

But even if not one single step was completed, there is nothing under international law that says the self-determination [Article 1(2), UN Charter] is subject to the approval of "Tinmore."

There is nothing under International Law that limits the rights of the Jewish people in regards to:

(a) The right to self-determination, without external interference from the Arab League, in the establishment of an independent state;

(b) The right to establish its own independent sovereign State;
​

Most Respectfully,
R

The creation of Israel in Palestine has many problems.

As well as creation of St Petersburg in Leningrad.
I hear the local Grand Mufti of the Central Park population has declared independence,
one day they might even become an independent nation, who knows.

 

[RoccoR]

RE: Israeli settlers set fire, Israel initially blamed Palestinians.
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

Who are you trying to bluff?

But even if not one single step was completed, there is nothing under international law that says the self-determination [Article 1(2), UN Charter] is subject to the approval of "Tinmore."

List the tenets of resolution 181 and see that Israel violated virtually all of them.

(COMMENT)

There is no list of principles, beliefs, or doctrines generally held as "required" in A/RES/181 (II) known as "tenents." There are 15 STEPS PREPARATORY TO INDEPENDENCE. Remember, there are no "requirements" in a non-binding resolution.

Once the Arab League violated Article 2(4) of the Charter, and forcibly interrupted the process of self-determination.

The Arab League external intervention without Security Council Approval voids program furthering Independent Arab and Jewish States and the Special International Regime for the City of Jerusalem, set forth in part III of A/RES/181 (II); to be completed not later than 1 October 1948.

The external Interference by the Arab League prevented the establishment of the boundaries of the Arab State, the Jewish State, and the City of Jerusalem shall be as described in parts II and III of A/RES/181 (II).

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[Dogmaphobe]

Such suffering.


luxury in gaza - Bing video

But it's an open air prison, Hollie! An open air prison!

Who are you going to believe -- what all the experts like Tinmore tell you, what with their extensive knowledge on the subject, or merely just what you see with your own eyes?

 

[Dogmaphobe]

The creation of Israel in Palestine has many problems.

Allowing Jews to have the same sense of self determination afforded any other group of people did set off you antisemites who wished the continuation of the trends in Jewish population in the early to mid part of the 1940s, anyway.

 

[RoccoR]

RE: Israeli settlers set fire, Israel initially blamed Palestinians.
⁜→

Hummmm,

v/r
R

Such suffering.

luxury in gaza - Bing video

But it's an open air prison, Hollie! An open air prison!

Who are you going to believe -- what all the experts like Tinmore tell you, what with their extensive knowledge on the subject, or merely just what you see with your own eyes?