Israel and apartheid

[jillian]

oh you made it clear that the terrorist thugs are there. but isn't it up to the pals to get rid of them instead of allowing their presence if they believe it's not in their best interests?

Don't expect Hamas to do much until al-Qa'idah becomes powerful enough to attack them as well -- they don't seem to be the best in terms of proactivity. For the time being, al-Qa'idah in Palestine represents a far more significant threat to you than it does to Muslims.

And you're right... it isn't in their interests because if they attempt to launch attacks, there will be far worse reprisals.

Israel's response to this was mind-numbingly stupid. One does not strike Hamas targets in response to an al-Qa'idah attack. Like them or not, Hamas is currently the only faction in the region that has even the faintest hope of being powerful enough to police the smaller groups that actually are attacking your country.

Perhaps its time for the pals to stop mucking around and actually negotiate in good faith.

You're aware that this was probably motivated by the settlement expansion in East Jerusalem, yes?

1. I'm American. I love Israel but *my* country is America...which doesn't mean I don't support my family and friends there.

2. Al Qu'aeda represents a bigger threat to me where I live. I watched them hit my old ofice with a plane. I figure that's a pretty nasty threat. But in response to your post, if Hamas is allowing Al Qu'eda to do its bidding, then they will get hit. They can't replace one terrorist group with another, do nothing about it and say 'oops, it wasn't us'. which may or may not be true anyway.

3. I figure the settlement expansion is probably in response to demands for East Jerusalem. It makes a point, yes? The pals, unfortunately, can't be trusted with allowing access to the holy sites there.

 

[Marc39]

Hamas is currently the only faction in the region that has even the faintest hope of being powerful enough to police the smaller groups that actually are attacking your country.

Er, Hamas has fired 8,000+ rockets into Israel since taking over. That's viewed as an attack to most normal people.

 

[Kalam]

1. I'm American. I love Israel but *my* country is America...which doesn't mean I don't support my family and friends there.

Excuse my mistake.

2. Al Qu'aeda represents a bigger threat to me where I live. I watched them hit my old ofice with a plane. I figure that's a pretty nasty threat. But in response to your post, if Hamas is allowing Al Qu'eda to do its bidding, then they will get hit. They can't replace one terrorist group with another, do nothing about it and say 'oops, it wasn't us'. which may or may not be true anyway.

Al-Qa'idah would regard cooperation with Hamas as a betrayal of its cause.

"Hamas has abandoned jihad for politics. It has betrayed its youths. Its main activity is politics. Since its decision to go down the path of politics, Hamas has begun to descend on a downhill slope. They betrayed the dreams of their young fighters and they stabbed them in the back... al-Qaeda leaders tried to advise Hamas about its policy and told Hamas leaders that they are not going in right direction. But Hamas has been firm in maintaining that its path is different from that of al-Qaeda... Hamas told al-Qaeda they don't need al-Qaeda's advice... Hamas is a part of the conspiracy against the Palestinians... Anyone who takes this path is bound to descend to hell because they are moving away from the true nature of their religion." - Abu Yahya al-Libi, al-Qa'idah statement.​

In the past, Hamas has killed those who express solidarity with al-Qa'idah. I see no reason to believe that they're colluding now.

Hamas destroys al-Qaida group in violent Gaza battle | World news | The Observer

3. I figure the settlement expansion is probably in response to demands for East Jerusalem. It makes a point, yes? The pals, unfortunately, can't be trusted with allowing access to the holy sites there.

The settlements will only cause tensions to increase. If you're interested in a two-state solution, know that settlement expansion will only impede progress toward that goal.

 

[Kalam]

Er, Hamas has fired 8,000+ rockets into Israel since taking over. That's viewed as an attack to most normal people.

They haven't lobbed many over recently. Plus, that figure includes all rocket attacks since 2001, not only those of Hamas.

 

[jillian]

Er, Hamas has fired 8,000+ rockets into Israel since taking over. That's viewed as an attack to most normal people.

They haven't lobbed many over recently. Plus, that figure includes all rocket attacks since 2001, not only those of Hamas.

yeah, what's a few bombs among friends, right?

and NOTHING is happening in Gaza without the consent of Hamas.

 

[Marc39]

Er, Hamas has fired 8,000+ rockets into Israel since taking over. That's viewed as an attack to most normal people.

They haven't lobbed many over recently. Plus, that figure includes all rocket attacks since 2001, not only those of Hamas.

Incorrect. Israel continues to be shelled by Hamas on a regular basis. Israel has been showing unbelievable restraint in refraining from destroying those little cockroaches, so, the shelling goes unnoticed.

8,000+ rockets into Israel since 2005
12,000+ rockets into Israel since 2000.

 

[jillian]

In the past, Hamas has killed those who express solidarity with al-Qa'idah. I see no reason to believe that they're colluding now.

Except that IF AQ is in Gaza, and that's an IF... then it can only be with Hamas consent. Politics has made stranger bedfellows.

The settlements will only cause tensions to increase. If you're interested in a two-state solution, know that settlement expansion will only impede progress toward that goal.

I don't agree with settlement expansion. But giving them Gaza didn't help. Offering them most of what they wanted didn't help. Maybe Netanyahu has the right idea. Put up more bargaining chips. As I just told a friend of mine, I did a divorce negotiation once for a client that went that way... my client made a great offer. His wife hired a jerk who told her to reject it. So my client reduced his offer. She rejected it again. A year later she fired the jerk and took half of what she was offered in the first place.

maybe it's time for the pals to negotiate in good faith?

 

[Kalam]

Incorrect. Israel continues to be shelled by Hamas on a regular basis. Israel has been showing unbelievable restraint in refraining from destroying those little cockroaches, so, the shelling goes unnoticed.

8,000+ rockets into Israel since 2005
12,000+ rockets into Israel since 2000.

I'm afraid not.

Since 2001, when the rockets were first fired, more than 8,600 have hit southern Israel, nearly 6,000 of them since Israel withdrew from Gaza in August 2005.

BBC NEWS | Middle East | Q&A: Gaza conflict

Unless you have evidence of several thousand rockets being fired in the last year, the numbers you provided have to be rejected as inaccurate. It doesn't hurt to link to your source, by the way.

 

[Marc39]

maybe it's time for the pals to negotiate in good faith?

Qur'an 9:3...

Allah and His Messenger dissolve obligations.

 

[Kalam]

Except that IF AQ is in Gaza, and that's an IF... then it can only be with Hamas consent. Politics has made stranger bedfellows.

That's not true at all. AQ was in the United States without American consent. Las FARC are in Colombia without Colombian consent. The Chechen mujahideen are in Chechnya, thank God, without Kadyrov's consent.

AQ doesn't do politics.

I don't agree with settlement expansion. But giving them Gaza didn't help. Offering them most of what they wanted didn't help. Maybe Netanyahu has the right idea. Put up more bargaining chips. As I just told a friend of mine, I did a divorce negotiation once for a client that went that way... my client made a great offer. His wife hired a jerk who told her to reject it. So my client reduced his offer. She rejected it again. A year later she fired the jerk and took half of what she was offered in the first place.

maybe it's time for the pals to negotiate in good faith?

As it stands, I would find it difficult to accept a two-state solution even with control over East Jerusalem and the territories. There are many people who favor fewer concessions and less restraint than I do, and reducing the offer will only ferment unrest among them. Imagine a divorce settlement in which both parties are armed and willing to kill each other.

 

[jillian]

As it stands, I would find it difficult to accept a two-state solution even with control over East Jerusalem and the territories. There are many people who favor fewer concessions and less restraint than I do, and reducing the offer will only ferment unrest among them. Imagine a divorce settlement in which both parties are armed and willing to kill each other.

luckily, YOU aren't the arbiter... if you were, with that attitude, I can assre you there will NEVER be a palestinian state. Israel will NEVER live subjugated to pals... and will never be killed off by them.

Luckily, most pals seem more rational than you:

The vast majority of Israelis and Palestinians are willing to live alongside each other peacefully in separate states, according to an independent poll released on Wednesday.

Results of the poll, commissioned by the grass-roots OneVoice Movement, indicate that 74 percent of Palestinians and 78 percent of Israelis are willing to accept a two-state solution.

Poll: Most Palestinians, Israelis want two-state solution - Haaretz - Israel News

 

[P F Tinmore]

Hamas is currently the only faction in the region that has even the faintest hope of being powerful enough to police the smaller groups that actually are attacking your country.

Er, Hamas has fired 8,000+ rockets into Israel since taking over. That's viewed as an attack to most normal people.

Gaza has been under a blockade since 2005. By international law that is an act of war against the Palestinians.

 

[Marc39]

Hamas is currently the only faction in the region that has even the faintest hope of being powerful enough to police the smaller groups that actually are attacking your country.

Er, Hamas has fired 8,000+ rockets into Israel since taking over. That's viewed as an attack to most normal people.

Gaza has been under a blockade since 2005. By international law that is an act of war against the Palestinians.

This blockade?
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You've never even been in the Middle East, dumb dumb. As for international law, you get your information from comic books. Israel is entirely compliant with the law.

 

[Kalam]

maybe it's time for the pals to negotiate in good faith?

Qur'an 9:3...

Allah and His Messenger dissolve obligations.

Stick to what you know.

Except those of the idolaters with whom you made an agreement, then they have not failed you in anything and have not backed up any one against you; so fulfill their agreement to the end of their term. Surely Allah loves those who keep their duty. - 9:4​

 

[Marc39]

As it stands, I would find it difficult to accept a two-state solution even with control over East Jerusalem and the territories. There are many people who favor fewer concessions and less restraint than I do, and reducing the offer will only ferment unrest among them. Imagine a divorce settlement in which both parties are armed and willing to kill each other.

luckily, YOU aren't the arbiter... if you were, with that attitude, I can assre you there will NEVER be a palestinian state. Israel will NEVER live subjugated to pals... and will never be killed off by them.

Luckily, most pals seem more rational than you:

The vast majority of Israelis and Palestinians are willing to live alongside each other peacefully in separate states, according to an independent poll released on Wednesday.

Results of the poll, commissioned by the grass-roots OneVoice Movement, indicate that 74 percent of Palestinians and 78 percent of Israelis are willing to accept a two-state solution.

Poll: Most Palestinians, Israelis want two-state solution - Haaretz - Israel News

Haaretz is not reliable. Pallies will never accept Israel.

 

[Kalam]

luckily, YOU aren't the arbiter... if you were, with that attitude, I can assre you there will NEVER be a palestinian state. Israel will NEVER live subjugated to pals... and will never be killed off by them.

The belief that equality is tantamount to subjugation remains an endless source of puzzlement for me. I haven't advocated subjugating or killing off any civilians.

Luckily, most pals seem more rational than you:

The vast majority of Israelis and Palestinians are willing to live alongside each other peacefully in separate states, according to an independent poll released on Wednesday.

You assume that the concessions potentially offered by Israel would be allow for the creation of a viable state. I'm skeptical of that belief.

 

[Marc39]

luckily, YOU aren't the arbiter... if you were, with that attitude, I can assre you there will NEVER be a palestinian state. Israel will NEVER live subjugated to pals... and will never be killed off by them.

The belief that equality is tantamount to subjugation remains an endless source of puzzlement for me. I haven't advocated subjugating or killing off any civilians.

Luckily, most pals seem more rational than you:

The vast majority of Israelis and Palestinians are willing to live alongside each other peacefully in separate states, according to an independent poll released on Wednesday.

You assume that the concessions potentially offered by Israel would be allow for the creation of a viable state. I'm skeptical of that belief.

Tell us of even one concession ever made by the sand rats. There is none.

 

[mdn2000]

Israel and Apartheid, big deal, its time for people to grow up, Sunnis are not going to make peace with Jews or other Moslems, that is the truth, they have proved that throughout history.

The USA plays both sides of the fence and that is the problem, its time to just take the Middle Eastern oil as we see fit and tell Sunnis and Shias to take a hike.

There is no Moslem god, there is only one god, the god of the Bible.

If there is a Moslem god why does he not make Moslems strong instead of cowards, Moslems as in those who chose to use children as bombs.

Crush those who rape the children and Israel can live in peace, after all that is the only Middle Eastern country where all people have Liberty.

 

[Marc39]

Israel and Apartheid, big deal, its time for people to grow up, Sunnis are not going to make peace with Jews or other Moslems, that is the truth, they have proved that throughout history.

The USA plays both sides of the fence and that is the problem, its time to just take the Middle Eastern oil as we see fit and tell Sunnis and Shias to take a hike.

There is no Moslem god, there is only one god, the god of the Bible.

If there is a Moslem god why does he not make Moslems strong instead of cowards, Moslems as in those who chose to use children as bombs.

Crush those who rape the children and Israel can live in peace, after all that is the only Middle Eastern country where all people have Liberty.

Islam is a scam. Even the Meccans and the Medinese Jews knew it, which is why they laughed at Muhammad. They asked him to perform even one miracle if he was a prophet and he could not. He made up excuses for why he could not. Too funny.

 

[P F Tinmore]

Israel and Apartheid, big deal, its time for people to grow up, Sunnis are not going to make peace with Jews or other Moslems, that is the truth, they have proved that throughout history.

The USA plays both sides of the fence and that is the problem, its time to just take the Middle Eastern oil as we see fit and tell Sunnis and Shias to take a hike.

There is no Moslem god, there is only one god, the god of the Bible.

If there is a Moslem god why does he not make Moslems strong instead of cowards, Moslems as in those who chose to use children as bombs.

Crush those who rape the children and Israel can live in peace, after all that is the only Middle Eastern country where all people have Liberty.

If there is a Jewish G-d, why has Israel (one of the best equipped armies in the world) been fighting a civilian population protected be a few militias armed with small arms and bottle rockets for over 60 years and they have not won yet?