Is there any sound argument for God's existence?

[hobelim]

Your thread asserting that historical superstitious religious lunacy was proof of spiritual reality was refuted a long time ago, by just about everyone.

Get over it.

So now you've simply decided to lie about my argument and claim I have made the opposite argument? I never claimed human spirituality was manifested by irrational superstitious religious beliefs, I claimed the opposite. That 'irrational superstitious religious beliefs' were manifested by human spirituality..

And what is human spirituality exactly? You claim it is the need to connect to something greater than themselves which I have shown is not anything more deep or mysterious than pack animal behavior. And what do you offer as evidence of human spirituality? Irrational and superstitious beliefs and practices many of which are hardly indistinguishable from mental illness.

...are proof of spiritual reality whatever that is... .

Again, I have corrected you once on this already.... Never did I claim there was PROOF of anything. I made a "sound argument" for something, that does not mean or indicate I proved it. Sound arguments can be made for any number of things it doesn't mean they are proven. Proof of a spiritual entity can only happen if you accept spiritual evidence, which you don't. So there is no way to "prove" anything to you. I keep on telling you this and you just keep coming back claiming I have claimed to have "proven" something to you. Get it through that thick head, I can't "prove" anything to you, your mind is made up about spiritual evidence. ..

Stop with the bullshit already. You made a so called sound argument by which you think that you have proven something, if one accepts your 'spiritual evidence' (whatever that is).

isn't simply just a function of the mind struggling to make sense of what is beyond its understanding...

And I've demonstrated how that can't possibly be the case unless it defies everything theorized by Darwin's Natural Selection. If the human species was so weak that it needed to "struggle to make sense" of something, the other upper primates would have eliminated humans long ago. Survival of the fittest. The species with the least hindrance to development always wins. We see no evidence of any of the other upper primates "struggling to make sense" of something, they don't seem to be aware of anything else but physical existence. ..

Again, stop with the bullshit already. Darwin and survival of the fittest has nothing whatever to do with anything that you have claimed about human superstitions. And what weakness do you perceive in the human quest to comprehend? What strength do you perceive in primates lack of intellectual development?

Obviously you realize how absurd what you claim is so you drag, Einstein, Darwin, newton into the argument in a pathetic appeal to authority, to try to make it seem like they agree with your silliness. Perhaps you should be so weak as to struggle to make sense.




[

Whenever the topic of God comes up or someone asks you to define God you say you have no such belief..

I have never said I didn't believe in God. Again, you lie. Why are you lying so much about things I've said? It's not like people can't search out the truth and see that you are lying. I've said numerous times, my personal belief in God doesn't conform to any mainstream religious dogma. I believe in God because I know God exists, I don't have faith, I don't need faith. I talk to God daily, and God is with me daily. So I have no need to prove God to myself. I'm merely responding to a question asked about any "sound argument" for God's existence. I think I've made one, and you've failed to refute it. That first prompted you to tell me I wasn't ever going to be a great thinker. Now you've resorted to outright lying about things I've argued and dreaming up past thread posts that never happened. You really are a sad clown.

I once directly asked you to define God to which you responded that you have no belief in any traditional view of God and left it at that. So now I took another look and see that you have a belief in God as some sort of cosmic energy that you talk to on a daily basis......

I hate to break the news to you, but you haven't made a sound argument. You have made unsubstantiated claims and have attempted and failed to lend credibility to your own delusional fantasies by claiming that human spirituality defined by you as a need to connect to something greater than self, which I have shown is simply a function of the mind shared by many species, would have died out long ago if it was not indicative of any reality essential to survival.

Yeah I said you will never be a great thinker because you lack the fundamental discipline of humility and honesty foundational to life and comprehension.

You say I am an intellectual coward, outright liar, and sad clown.


Great debating skills you have there.....

 

[hobelim]

If we take an objective and open minded step back, we see that human behavior has always maintained a strong spiritual connection to something greater than self. If it wasn't needed or required by the species, we would have discarded the attribute long ago. If it was an attribute we developed out of necessity or fear, there would be evidence of similar attributes in other living organisms. Since we have never found this to be the case, and since humans have consistently practiced spirituality, we can conclude that there is some real connection humans are making to something greater than self.

The question is answered.

Now heres your chance to take an objective and opened minded step back.

There has always been a fear based need for people to amass in groups united by a belief in something greater than themselves, , just like in other species, for instance, schooling fish in an ocean full of predators or herding animals for very the same reason.. With so many warring tribes competing for resources, not to mention wild animals from every species, joining with one collective or another has always been essential to survival, but that in itself does not validate or prove the existence of any greater reality of those who believe that they, as a group, united under one bizarre belief, tradition, hair style, fashion or whatever, are number one. Historically the most violent and irrational groups of all have dominated the human landscape like some degenerate wild beast from the bowels of hell roaming the earth and devouring the gullible..

So yes, people connect to something greater than themselves but, historically, what they connect to is a self negating multiplicity that has absolutely no real existence other than in the confused minds of those who have exchanged their own real individual identity for the imaginary one provided by the collective under threat of real and imaginary violence and specious promises of salvation, safety, protection and life.

 

[Boss]

And what is human spirituality exactly? You claim it is the need to connect to something greater than themselves which I have shown is not anything more deep or mysterious than pack animal behavior. And what do you offer as evidence of human spirituality? Irrational and superstitious beliefs and practices many of which are hardly indistinguishable from mental illness.

I've never seen a pack of animals or school of fish worshiping. The lack of evidence in any other living organism exhibiting this behavior, means the behavior is unique to humans. We've been over the "irrational and superstitious" thing before, human spirituality is neither irrational or superstitious. Again, science bears this out. 95% of our species isn't exhibiting an irrational behavior and is not mentally ill. You can keep on repeating that but it hasn't refuted my argument and it makes you sound like a fool.

Stop with the bullshit already. You made a so called sound argument by which you think that you have proven something, if one accepts your 'spiritual evidence' (whatever that is).

No bullshit, I never claimed to have "proven" anything. I did make a sound argument for something. Proof is a highly subjective word, what you and I consider proof may differ depending on what we accept as valid evidence. It is not possible for me to prove God to someone who refuses to accept spiritual evidence because God is spiritual in nature.

Again, stop with the bullshit already. Darwin and survival of the fittest has nothing whatever to do with anything that you have claimed about human superstitions. And what weakness do you perceive in the human quest to comprehend? What strength do you perceive in primates lack of intellectual development?

Well if humans were mentally ill and trying to comprehend something that was imaginary and didn't exist, then the other upper primates would have killed humans off as they would not be hindered by the distraction. We've covered "superstitions" already. A superstition is something that has no tangible benefit for belief in. If human spirituality were superstition, other upper primates would have surpassed us, as they wouldn't be restricted by obedience to worship, time devoted to rituals, and superficial nonsense conjured up by imagination. Humans would have realized no tangible benefit from their superstitious beliefs and discarded them in favor of survival. But that is not what our history shows.

Obviously you realize how absurd what you claim is so you drag, Einstein, Darwin, newton into the argument in a pathetic appeal to authority, to try to make it seem like they agree with your silliness. Perhaps you should be so weak as to struggle to make sense.

I've not made an absurd claim, you keep saying I have but you're trying to argue that human spirituality is mental illness and superstition. I introduce Darwin, Newton and Einstein when they are relevant to the discussion. I'm not struggling to make sense, in fact, I am making too much sense, that's why you've resorted to personally attacking my intellect.

I once directly asked you to define God to which you responded that you have no belief in any traditional view of God and left it at that. So now I took another look and see that you have a belief in God as some sort of cosmic energy that you talk to on a daily basis......

No, I told you that God did not need to be defined in order to prove God spiritually exists. God is the spiritual entity greater than self which humans are spiritually connected to. Some have developed an incarnation of God through a religion. Some understand God as nature itself. Some are like me and realize a God which is more of an energy force, Karma or Ying-Yang. And curiously enough, some humans have adopted the belief in themselves as God.

I hate to break the news to you, but you haven't made a sound argument.

That's your opinion.

So yes, people connect to something greater than themselves...

Thanks... you've just confirmed your belief in God.

 

[daws101]

And what is human spirituality exactly? You claim it is the need to connect to something greater than themselves which I have shown is not anything more deep or mysterious than pack animal behavior. And what do you offer as evidence of human spirituality? Irrational and superstitious beliefs and practices many of which are hardly indistinguishable from mental illness.

I've never seen a pack of animals or school of fish worshiping. The lack of evidence in any other living organism exhibiting this behavior, means the behavior is unique to humans. We've been over the "irrational and superstitious" thing before, human spirituality is neither irrational or superstitious. Again, science bears this out. 95% of our species isn't exhibiting an irrational behavior and is not mentally ill. You can keep on repeating that but it hasn't refuted my argument and it makes you sound like a fool.

Stop with the bullshit already. You made a so called sound argument by which you think that you have proven something, if one accepts your 'spiritual evidence' (whatever that is).

No bullshit, I never claimed to have "proven" anything. I did make a sound argument for something. Proof is a highly subjective word, what you and I consider proof may differ depending on what we accept as valid evidence. It is not possible for me to prove God to someone who refuses to accept spiritual evidence because God is spiritual in nature.



Well if humans were mentally ill and trying to comprehend something that was imaginary and didn't exist, then the other upper primates would have killed humans off as they would not be hindered by the distraction. We've covered "superstitions" already. A superstition is something that has no tangible benefit for belief in. If human spirituality were superstition, other upper primates would have surpassed us, as they wouldn't be restricted by obedience to worship, time devoted to rituals, and superficial nonsense conjured up by imagination. Humans would have realized no tangible benefit from their superstitious beliefs and discarded them in favor of survival. But that is not what our history shows.



I've not made an absurd claim, you keep saying I have but you're trying to argue that human spirituality is mental illness and superstition. I introduce Darwin, Newton and Einstein when they are relevant to the discussion. I'm not struggling to make sense, in fact, I am making too much sense, that's why you've resorted to personally attacking my intellect.



No, I told you that God did not need to be defined in order to prove God spiritually exists. God is the spiritual entity greater than self which humans are spiritually connected to. Some have developed an incarnation of God through a religion. Some understand God as nature itself. Some are like me and realize a God which is more of an energy force, Karma or Ying-Yang. And curiously enough, some humans have adopted the belief in themselves as God.

I hate to break the news to you, but you haven't made a sound argument.

That's your opinion.

So yes, people connect to something greater than themselves...

Thanks... you've just confirmed your belief in God.

false! your assuming that some thing greater then yourselves is a god..not just that you further assume there is only one god...
nice job of intentional misinterpretation.

 

[GreenBean]

please remove all the specious speculation...

Shut up or contribute to the conversation.

I do contribute immensely, I take a complex idea and explain it with accuracy and brevity, skills you don't possess...or you're in love with the sound of your keyboard keys.

Actually - you don't contribute at all - lol

You take a complex idea and turn into a convoluted shit sandwich. You cannabis-cultivating freak of nature, don't let your mind wander—it's far too little to be let out on its own.

 

[GreenBean]

And what is human spirituality exactly? You claim it is the need to connect to something greater than themselves which I have shown is not anything more deep or mysterious than pack animal behavior. And what do you offer as evidence of human spirituality? Irrational and superstitious beliefs and practices many of which are hardly indistinguishable from mental illness.

I've never seen a pack of animals or school of fish worshiping. The lack of evidence in any other living organism exhibiting this behavior, means the behavior is unique to humans. We've been over the "irrational and superstitious" thing before, human spirituality is neither irrational or superstitious. Again, science bears this out. 95% of our species isn't exhibiting an irrational behavior and is not mentally ill. You can keep on repeating that but it hasn't refuted my argument and it makes you sound like a fool.

Stop with the bullshit already. You made a so called sound argument by which you think that you have proven something, if one accepts your 'spiritual evidence' (whatever that is).

No bullshit, I never claimed to have "proven" anything. I did make a sound argument for something. Proof is a highly subjective word, what you and I consider proof may differ depending on what we accept as valid evidence. It is not possible for me to prove God to someone who refuses to accept spiritual evidence because God is spiritual in nature.



Well if humans were mentally ill and trying to comprehend something that was imaginary and didn't exist, then the other upper primates would have killed humans off as they would not be hindered by the distraction. We've covered "superstitions" already. A superstition is something that has no tangible benefit for belief in. If human spirituality were superstition, other upper primates would have surpassed us, as they wouldn't be restricted by obedience to worship, time devoted to rituals, and superficial nonsense conjured up by imagination. Humans would have realized no tangible benefit from their superstitious beliefs and discarded them in favor of survival. But that is not what our history shows.



I've not made an absurd claim, you keep saying I have but you're trying to argue that human spirituality is mental illness and superstition. I introduce Darwin, Newton and Einstein when they are relevant to the discussion. I'm not struggling to make sense, in fact, I am making too much sense, that's why you've resorted to personally attacking my intellect.



No, I told you that God did not need to be defined in order to prove God spiritually exists. God is the spiritual entity greater than self which humans are spiritually connected to. Some have developed an incarnation of God through a religion. Some understand God as nature itself. Some are like me and realize a God which is more of an energy force, Karma or Ying-Yang. And curiously enough, some humans have adopted the belief in themselves as God.

I hate to break the news to you, but you haven't made a sound argument.

That's your opinion.

So yes, people connect to something greater than themselves...

Thanks... you've just confirmed your belief in God.

God is relative to Time. I am an immature avatar of God as are all of us- to be infinitely intelligent , God must have infinite experiences - infinity can only be achieved outside of the realm of Time .

I've never seen a pack of animals or school of fish worshiping.

Never seen them using fire or the wheel either ....

 

[daws101]

Shut up or contribute to the conversation.

I do contribute immensely, I take a complex idea and explain it with accuracy and brevity, skills you don't possess...or you're in love with the sound of your keyboard keys.

Actually - you don't contribute at all - lol

You take a complex idea and turn into a convoluted shit sandwich. You cannabis-cultivating freak of nature, don't let your mind wander—it's far too little to be let out on its own.

is making false and erroneous statements genetic with you or do you have to practice..?

 

[daws101]

And what is human spirituality exactly? You claim it is the need to connect to something greater than themselves which I have shown is not anything more deep or mysterious than pack animal behavior. And what do you offer as evidence of human spirituality? Irrational and superstitious beliefs and practices many of which are hardly indistinguishable from mental illness.

I've never seen a pack of animals or school of fish worshiping. The lack of evidence in any other living organism exhibiting this behavior, means the behavior is unique to humans. We've been over the "irrational and superstitious" thing before, human spirituality is neither irrational or superstitious. Again, science bears this out. 95% of our species isn't exhibiting an irrational behavior and is not mentally ill. You can keep on repeating that but it hasn't refuted my argument and it makes you sound like a fool.



No bullshit, I never claimed to have "proven" anything. I did make a sound argument for something. Proof is a highly subjective word, what you and I consider proof may differ depending on what we accept as valid evidence. It is not possible for me to prove God to someone who refuses to accept spiritual evidence because God is spiritual in nature.



Well if humans were mentally ill and trying to comprehend something that was imaginary and didn't exist, then the other upper primates would have killed humans off as they would not be hindered by the distraction. We've covered "superstitions" already. A superstition is something that has no tangible benefit for belief in. If human spirituality were superstition, other upper primates would have surpassed us, as they wouldn't be restricted by obedience to worship, time devoted to rituals, and superficial nonsense conjured up by imagination. Humans would have realized no tangible benefit from their superstitious beliefs and discarded them in favor of survival. But that is not what our history shows.



I've not made an absurd claim, you keep saying I have but you're trying to argue that human spirituality is mental illness and superstition. I introduce Darwin, Newton and Einstein when they are relevant to the discussion. I'm not struggling to make sense, in fact, I am making too much sense, that's why you've resorted to personally attacking my intellect.



No, I told you that God did not need to be defined in order to prove God spiritually exists. God is the spiritual entity greater than self which humans are spiritually connected to. Some have developed an incarnation of God through a religion. Some understand God as nature itself. Some are like me and realize a God which is more of an energy force, Karma or Ying-Yang. And curiously enough, some humans have adopted the belief in themselves as God.



That's your opinion.

So yes, people connect to something greater than themselves...

Thanks... you've just confirmed your belief in God.

God is relative to Time. I am an immature avatar of God as are all of us- to be infinitely intelligent , God must have infinite experiences - infinity can only be achieved outside of the realm of Time .

 

[Papawx3]

IMO there is not, or at least should not be, any argument or even debate as to the existence of God. Either you believe or you don't. If you don't, that's fine. I don't care what you do or don't believe and I won't tell you that you're wrong or even criticize you for expressing your opinion.
Otoh, I don't think you have the right to criticize me for believing that God does exist.
What's between my God and me is between us. Whatever is between you and your "whatever" is on you.
That's what I call "tolerance".

 

[daws101]

IMO there is not, or at least should not be, any argument or even debate as to the existence of God. Either you believe or you don't. If you don't, that's fine. I don't care what you do or don't believe and I won't tell you that you're wrong or even criticize you for expressing your opinion.
Otoh, I don't think you have the right to criticize me for believing that God does exist.
What's between my God and me is between us. Whatever is between you and your "whatever" is on you.
That's what I call "tolerance".

then you might want to clue other "Christians" in....

 

[Boss]

false! your assuming that some thing greater then yourselves is a god..not just that you further assume there is only one god...
nice job of intentional misinterpretation.

No, I clearly defined "God" as being that thing which is greater than self that 95% of humans have always connected with spiritually. If you have defined God some other way, that's not my problem. I've also certainly not dismissed the possibility of more than one "God" and would love to see what statement I've made that would lead you believe this.

I also disagree, it was a terrible job you did of intentional misinterpretation.

 

[GreenBean]

I do contribute immensely, I take a complex idea and explain it with accuracy and brevity, skills you don't possess...or you're in love with the sound of your keyboard keys.

Actually - you don't contribute at all - lol

You take a complex idea and turn into a convoluted shit sandwich. You cannabis-cultivating freak of nature, don't let your mind wander—it's far too little to be let out on its own.

is making false and erroneous statements genetic with you or do you have to practice..?

Daws - As a latte-drinking granolacrat, you are a clear and present danger to my sanity. Listen, you gun-hating idiot, I'd rather be a conservative nut job than a liberal with no nuts and no job.

 

[GreenBean]

then you might want to clue other "Christians" in....

You Antichrist-embracing parasite - why don't you for once post something that requires an IQ above 50 ?? As a America-destroying kumbayanik, it's nice to see you don't let facts get in the way of your opinions.

 

[hobelim]

false! your assuming that some thing greater then yourselves is a god..not just that you further assume there is only one god...
nice job of intentional misinterpretation.

thanks Daws for pointing out the obvious.

He claims that connecting to something greater than self is 'spirituality' and then equates spirituality with a god, any god, and then seems to think it is irrelevant if those beliefs are false, irrational or insane.

Seeing the way he and his alter ego respond to you seems to contradict his claim of having an ability to connect with something greater than himself.

 

[hobelim]

I've never seen a pack of animals or school of fish worshiping.

Never seen them using fire or the wheel either ....

your ability to see is in question.

have you never seen dogs bark at the moon? Cocks crow at sunrise? Have you never seen chimps posturing out of fear?

What about a human stampede? people crawling on their bellies? teeming humans that go down on all fours? Those of lesser developement that do not ruminate?


The original comparison was to show that all species, like human beings, connect to or have an awareness of something greater than themselves, as in their connection to the pack, or herd, or flock or swarm; evolved fear based behavior essential to survival that is not evidence of any God or spiritual reality.

Yes, people have always practiced one religion or another, but why?

In the past religious worship was compulsory under penalty of torture and death. Even to this day people of certain faiths maintain such primitive and violent behavior and the religions who don't kill those who resist assimilation practice anathema, social and economic oppression. People got on their knees to worship statues of the king, or a bird, or a mythical being because if they didn't they were summarily executed in one way or another.

makes "spirituality" a little less mysterious, doesn't it?

 

[daws101]

false! your assuming that some thing greater then yourselves is a god..not just that you further assume there is only one god...
nice job of intentional misinterpretation.

No, I clearly defined "God" as being that thing which is greater than self that 95% of humans have always connected with spiritually. If you have defined God some other way, that's not my problem. I've also certainly not dismissed the possibility of more than one "God" and would love to see what statement I've made that would lead you believe this.

I also disagree, it was a terrible job you did of intentional misinterpretation.

false. by using the word god,you've muddied the waters.

 

[daws101]

Actually - you don't contribute at all - lol

You take a complex idea and turn into a convoluted shit sandwich. You cannabis-cultivating freak of nature, don't let your mind wander—it's far too little to be let out on its own.

is making false and erroneous statements genetic with you or do you have to practice..?

Daws - As a latte-drinking granolacrat, you are a clear and present danger to my sanity. Listen, you gun-hating idiot, I'd rather be a conservative nut job than a liberal with no nuts and no job.

is making false and erroneous statements genetic with you or do you have to practice..?

 

[daws101]

then you might want to clue other "Christians" in....

You Antichrist-embracing parasite - why don't you for once post something that requires an IQ above 50 ?? As a America-destroying kumbayanik, it's nice to see you don't let facts get in the way of your opinions.

is making false and erroneous statements genetic with you or do you have to practice..?

 

[daws101]

false! your assuming that some thing greater then yourselves is a god..not just that you further assume there is only one god...
nice job of intentional misinterpretation.

thanks Daws for pointing out the obvious.

He claims that connecting to something greater than self is 'spirituality' and then equates spirituality with a god, any god, and then seems to think it is irrelevant if those beliefs are false, irrational or insane.

Seeing the way he and his alter ego respond to you seems to contradict his claim of having an ability to connect with something greater than himself.

true! boss appears to be the kind of person that has to have the last word and truly believes what he is saying.
for whatever reason he has to see himself as the smartest kid in class.

 

[GreenBean]

I've never seen a pack of animals or school of fish worshiping.

Never seen them using fire or the wheel either ....

your ability to see is in question.

have you never seen dogs bark at the moon? Cocks crow at sunrise? Have you never seen chimps posturing out of fear?

1.Dogs and or wolves howl at the moon to signal position when hunting. Dogs also howl when left alone for long times and they are attempting to hint to their family members. Dog howls are also very contagious, since one dog's howl may set off a series of howls in ears range.

2. Cocks crow at sunrise? - My cock generally crows at night. Roosters however , according to science have an internal biological clock which is stimulated by external stimuli, something like my cock also.

3. Have you never seen chimps posturing out of fear? - No I Never have - But I've seen them ditching into the woods when five-0 shows up .