Is the left really against schools hiring students or is the issue Gingrich said it?

[JoeB131]

A plan for a disaster, yes.

Vouchers won't cover the entire cost of schools. Middle and upper class families will be able to provide the extra money for books, uniforms, transportation, and lunches. Poor families won't. Instead of school being a place where people from a wide variety of backgrounds learn and play together, it will become a place where poor students are something you've heard about, but never met close up.

Private schools don't have to take students with disabilities, so public schools will become where the poor and disabled go for their education. And our democracy will suffer.

Oh, no, lunches and uniforms? Really? I mean, yeah, that uniform really makes the difference, doesn't it?

Come on, get real. The rich and poor aren't mixing now, are they? The wealthy move to Posh suburbs or the put their kids in private schools. LIke all those Democratic politicos I went to school with. they love public education, but they love their kids more.

Heck, a voucher might give a kid a shot at a nice school, if he isn't a complete fuckup.

 

[SAT2]

Oh, no, lunches and uniforms? Really? I mean, yeah, that uniform really makes the difference, doesn't it?

Do you understand what a uniform is?

Come on, get real. The rich and poor aren't mixing now, are they? The wealthy move to Posh suburbs or the put their kids in private schools. LIke all those Democratic politicos I went to school with. they love public education, but they love their kids more.

Heck, a voucher might give a kid a shot at a nice school, if he isn't a complete fuckup.

No, but the poor and the middle class are. And we're the ones who get the work done anyway.

 

[JoeB131]

Oh, no, lunches and uniforms? Really? I mean, yeah, that uniform really makes the difference, doesn't it?

Do you understand what a uniform is?

Come on, get real. The rich and poor aren't mixing now, are they? The wealthy move to Posh suburbs or the put their kids in private schools. LIke all those Democratic politicos I went to school with. they love public education, but they love their kids more.

Heck, a voucher might give a kid a shot at a nice school, if he isn't a complete fuckup.

No, but the poor and the middle class are. And we're the ones who get the work done anyway.

Actually, the "middle class" stays as far away from "the poor" as they can.

The poor usually are the prime democrap voter who thinks the world owes them a living. And the Middle Class has had it up to here with that shit, in case you were asleep during 2010....

 

[SAT2]

Actually, the "middle class" stays as far away from "the poor" as they can.

The poor usually are the prime democrap voter who thinks the world owes them a living. And the Middle Class has had it up to here with that shit, in case you were asleep during 2010....

The poor and middle class kids are educated together in public schools. Poor kids and middle class kids, kids of various religious backgrounds and political ideologies. It's essential to a democracy-which is part of why the right is so anxious to dismantle it.

 

[kaz]

Actually, the "middle class" stays as far away from "the poor" as they can.

The poor usually are the prime democrap voter who thinks the world owes them a living. And the Middle Class has had it up to here with that shit, in case you were asleep during 2010....

The poor and middle class kids are educated together in public schools. Poor kids and middle class kids, kids of various religious backgrounds and political ideologies. It's essential to a democracy-which is part of why the right is so anxious to dismantle it.

As a middle class kid who was bused to a poor school, I can tell you as someone who knows that they are talking about that you're an ignorant bitch who has no clue what you're talking about. My experience consisted of learning zero and defending myself until my parents took me out and put me in private schools to get away from your liberal utopia.

 

[yidnar]

Aw geeze not this shit again!

The child labor laws will not be repealed. You see, there REALLY IS a Santa!

once again a liberal has resorted to vulgarity !!! what a surprise !!....Barney Frank is a FAGGOT!!

 

[rdean]

Arguments used against me by the left on this include:

- It's "forcing" students to work to pay them to do jobs around the school
- If students are to do jobs, we should force all students to do them, not pay some of them to do them
- It's depriving janitors of their livelihood.
- 10 year old will be forced to clean bathrooms
- Newt saying our child labor laws are stupid can only mean he wants to repeal all labor laws.

I have a hard time seeing in real life that if schools offered students work for chores around the school that the liberals would say or even think any of these things. I think they'd be OK with it. But you tell me, is that really the issue? Or is it a partisan attack against Gingrich?

I'd like you liberals to think about this and just be honest. Would you seriously make these arguments if your local school just did it? They offered kids money to perform chores around the school?

There's so many things wrong with right wing suppositions. They imagine one world but live in this one.

Why don't you try to tackle this one on your own? Try making a case against, one not colored by delusion.

 

[JoeB131]

Actually, the "middle class" stays as far away from "the poor" as they can.

The poor usually are the prime democrap voter who thinks the world owes them a living. And the Middle Class has had it up to here with that shit, in case you were asleep during 2010....

The poor and middle class kids are educated together in public schools. Poor kids and middle class kids, kids of various religious backgrounds and political ideologies. It's essential to a democracy-which is part of why the right is so anxious to dismantle it.

No, they aren't. The Middle class either moves to the Burbs or send their kids to parochial schools or private schools.

The right is anxious to dismantle public education because it just plain doesn't work. When 20% of HS Grads can't read their own diplomas, that's epic fail.

 

[JoeB131]

Actually, the "middle class" stays as far away from "the poor" as they can.

The poor usually are the prime democrap voter who thinks the world owes them a living. And the Middle Class has had it up to here with that shit, in case you were asleep during 2010....

The poor and middle class kids are educated together in public schools. Poor kids and middle class kids, kids of various religious backgrounds and political ideologies. It's essential to a democracy-which is part of why the right is so anxious to dismantle it.

As a middle class kid who was bused to a poor school, I can tell you as someone who knows that they are talking about that you're an ignorant bitch who has no clue what you're talking about. My experience consisted of learning zero and defending myself until my parents took me out and put me in private schools to get away from your liberal utopia.

Now, Kaz, don't you realize that your parents were completely missing the point. Exposing you to gangbangers and lazy government union teachers waiting for their pensions was part of the "Democratizing" process.

Of course, as I have pointed out to SAT a bunch of times, and he(she?) keeps ignoring, the Democratic politicians themselves don't expose their kids to this bullshit. They put their kids in nice private schools.

 

[Sallow]

Isn't it great how nutters pepper their rants with misinformation.......and it just slides by because taking them to task on every misrepresentation of the facts would kill any hope for even inane discussion?

Examples scattered in this thread:

"with the high taxes we pay......."
"unions have too much power...."
"labor is a type of education"

Please consider this question. Where in this world will you find the most effective, responsible and productive adults?

Answer that, and then examine the child labor laws and child-rearing traditions in that country. Learn from them.

That is all.

Man..so many pages of nonsense..and so few posts that really hit it on the head.

In any case..this isn't about instilling responsibility into kids..this is about racism. It's a dog whistle. It's code talking.

Newt isn't talking about sending kids to work as executives in offices, as technicians in computer labs, as doctors, as lawyers..or any other viable profession that would lift a kid out of poverty. He's talking about busting up Unions of the working poor and making their lot even more miserable. He's talking about letting the son or the daughter of a janitor, take his or her job. And typically, these people are minorities.

Newt's a real piece of work.

 

[JoeB131]

Man..so many pages of nonsense..and so few posts that really hit it on the head.

In any case..this isn't about instilling responsibility into kids..this is about racism. It's a dog whistle. It's code talking.

Newt isn't talking about sending kids to work as executives in offices, as technicians in computer labs, as doctors, as lawyers..or any other viable profession that would lift a kid out of poverty. He's talking about busting up Unions of the working poor and making their lot even more miserable. He's talking about letting the son or the daughter of a janitor, take his or her job. And typically, these people are minorities.

Newt's a real piece of work.

There are Janitors who make more than the teachers in the Public School system, these aren't the "working poor". These are union thugs who've managed to shake down cowardly management.

 

[SAT2]

As a middle class kid who was bused to a poor school, I can tell you as someone who knows that they are talking about that you're an ignorant bitch who has no clue what you're talking about. My experience consisted of learning zero and defending myself until my parents took me out and put me in private schools to get away from your liberal utopia.

I do know exactly what I'm talking about, and I also know exactly what you're talking about. I wouldn't want anybody exposed to that kind of abuse, and I'm glad your parents got you out of a mismanaged, under-performing school where teachers and administrators let students be bullies. NO parent should have their kid in such a situation. Ever.

That does not change the reality that schools are a democratizing force in society.

My kids went to a middle school that had a fair number of fights and bullying, but the administration was hard core about intervention and discipline, and my kids felt physically safe. If they hadn't felt safe, I would have gotten them out of there.

Of course, as I have pointed out to SAT a bunch of times, and he(she?) keeps ignoring, the Democratic politicians themselves don't expose their kids to this bullshit. They put their kids in nice private schools.

Joe being a serial liar, he says I've ignored this. Of course, I haven't, and I'll give him the answer AGAIN.

I have books that I bought in my home. That doesn't mean I'm against the public library.

I have a car. That doesn't mean I'm against public transportation.

You can support public education, and support your tax dollars going to public education, and still opt for private school for your kids.

 

[SAT2]

Man..so many pages of nonsense..and so few posts that really hit it on the head.

In any case..this isn't about instilling responsibility into kids..this is about racism. It's a dog whistle. It's code talking.

Newt isn't talking about sending kids to work as executives in offices, as technicians in computer labs, as doctors, as lawyers..or any other viable profession that would lift a kid out of poverty. He's talking about busting up Unions of the working poor and making their lot even more miserable. He's talking about letting the son or the daughter of a janitor, take his or her job. And typically, these people are minorities.

Newt's a real piece of work.

There are Janitors who make more than the teachers in the Public School system, these aren't the "working poor". These are union thugs who've managed to shake down cowardly management.

How many of them are there, Joe? How many?

 

[SAT2]

Man..so many pages of nonsense..and so few posts that really hit it on the head.

In any case..this isn't about instilling responsibility into kids..this is about racism. It's a dog whistle. It's code talking.

Newt isn't talking about sending kids to work as executives in offices, as technicians in computer labs, as doctors, as lawyers..or any other viable profession that would lift a kid out of poverty. He's talking about busting up Unions of the working poor and making their lot even more miserable. He's talking about letting the son or the daughter of a janitor, take his or her job. And typically, these people are minorities.

Newt's a real piece of work.

 

[JoeB131]

How many of them are there, Joe? How many?

If it's ONE, it's too many.

 

[JoeB131]

Of course, as I have pointed out to SAT a bunch of times, and he(she?) keeps ignoring, the Democratic politicians themselves don't expose their kids to this bullshit. They put their kids in nice private schools.

Joe being a serial liar, he says I've ignored this. Of course, I haven't, and I'll give him the answer AGAIN.

I have books that I bought in my home. That doesn't mean I'm against the public library.

I have a car. That doesn't mean I'm against public transportation.

You can support public education, and support your tax dollars going to public education, and still opt for private school for your kids.

That's a complete cop out and you know it. I'm amazed you are even trying to get away with it.

If you blocked people from having access to book stores and car dealerships, while taking advantage of them yourself, then your comparisons would be apt.

When you state that you are not going to allow ANY school choice, oppose magnet schools and charter schools and voucher and school choice of any kind, but DAMMIT, I'm sending my kid to a nice Catholic School while I INSIST on busing your kid into the Ghetto for the purpose of "democratizing" him. That isn't choice, that's coercion.

Further, if you ignore the wishes of the people who are like, paying for this stuff, by insisting on teaching evolution only when some of them want intelligent design taught, or forcing birth control and sex education on them when they feel that is something that should be taught in the home, then we aren't really talking about "choices" anymore, are we.

 

[NYcarbineer]

You have yet to show us one liberal who ever supported firing janitors and replacing them with schoolchildren.

Since you cannot, the answer to your question has been provided:

NO, liberals are not opposing this just because Gingrich supports this.

Hmm...I'm thinking this "logic" wouldn't work as a rebuttal to a liberal argument for you...

I am patiently waiting for any evidence whatsoever from you of any liberal EVER flip flopping on this issue simply because Gingrich came out in support of it.

That is your claim. Give us ONE shred of evidence to support it.

 

[initforme]

1) State and federal testing needs to be changed so that only the test is taught. If we are going to hold schools accountable via tests then I want to make darn sure that my kids teachers have every single test question in their hands so they know the exact concepts to be taught. Nothing else. The system today is very comparable to taking a course in auto mechanics but being tested on baking. It makes no sense.
2) I dont have a problem with kids working in their school. Just pay them $15 per hour. Then there is alot of competition for the job. Hence you get the best workers. Kinda like the real world works. If you think the price is too high then you are a strong proponent of slavery. This is the way capitalism works. Pay a very high wage and get the best workers. Pay a lower wage you cannot and should not and have no right to expect top notch work.
3) Put all control to the locals. let them work with their teachers to create their own tests, not the states.
4) Create merit pay and pay those high performing teachers a huge bonus (I'm thinking like a $10,000 dollar bonus at the end of the year minimal). A stipend so to speak. Get rid of the lower performing ones.

I have just fixed all problems. Except for the vast majority of american parents who are inept. I'd say about 80 percent do a poor job. Thats a conservative estimate.

 

[NYcarbineer]

Isn't it great how nutters pepper their rants with misinformation.......and it just slides by because taking them to task on every misrepresentation of the facts would kill any hope for even inane discussion?

Examples scattered in this thread:

"with the high taxes we pay......."
"unions have too much power...."
"labor is a type of education"

Please consider this question. Where in this world will you find the most effective, responsible and productive adults?

Answer that, and then examine the child labor laws and child-rearing traditions in that country. Learn from them.

That is all.

Man..so many pages of nonsense..and so few posts that really hit it on the head.

In any case..this isn't about instilling responsibility into kids..this is about racism. It's a dog whistle. It's code talking.

Newt isn't talking about sending kids to work as executives in offices, as technicians in computer labs, as doctors, as lawyers..or any other viable profession that would lift a kid out of poverty. He's talking about busting up Unions of the working poor and making their lot even more miserable. He's talking about letting the son or the daughter of a janitor, take his or her job. And typically, these people are minorities.

Newt's a real piece of work.

Newt's problem is that he himself is the most zealous believer and perpetuator of the widely held myth that Newt Gingrich is a deep thinker.

 

[NYcarbineer]

Those of you who really think, or think you think, that learning to work and learning the value of work in terms of the income it generates is of the highest priority,

how about this? Eliminate ALL sports programs and use the money you save to fund work-in-school programs. Eliminate playing games for free and replace them with doing work for money.

Kind of loses its charm in that context, doesn't it?