Zone1 is the church built upon Peter? HELL NO

[zaangalewa]

no.

Aha. The problem: Then her decision to become the mother of god was not able to be her own totally free decision. Sin makes unfree.

Question: Do you believe in the triune god?

 

[Meriweather]

Why do they call their prayers “Hail Mary’s” if they aren’t praying to Mary.

Luke 1:28

Catholics are praying and meditating on the Gospels. Mary enters the Gospel story when the angel Gabriel comes to her with these words: "Hail Mary, full of grace, the Lord is with you." And so the Gospel prayer begins.

Perhaps it is only Catholics who can see a prayer introducing not only Mary, but grace and the Lord being with us. We, like Mary, can accept God's grace and give birth to Jesus in our own lives. The prayer goes on to address the sin/short-comings in human lives, thus the need for God's grace, his forgiveness, and Jesus' presence in our own lives throughout the day.

One simple prayer addresses how it all begins: With God's grace, with the birth of Jesus into our lives, with the forgiveness of sins. All of this...yet all non-Catholics can see and yammer about is Mary-Mary-Mary and yelp that Catholics are worshiping Mary. They do not see grace. They do not see the birth of Jesus into human lives. They do not see the forgiveness of sins. It is like they don't even know the Gospel. They are too focused on Mary.

 

[hadit]

Mary isn't a member of the Body of Christ in your faith?

What has escaped you is what I am constantly repeating. Mary asked us to join in her prayers for peace and forgiveness. If Mary doesn't hear my prayers for peace and forgiveness you think I should be shattered? Mary didn't promise me anything. She asked for our prayers. Say, 'Nope' if you wish, and say because Mary can't hear you praying for peace and forgiveness you refuse to join her in praying for peace and forgiveness.

When you pray, do you tell God that you're praying with Mary, or do you ask her to pray with you?

As far as people requesting Mary to join in their prayers, what is it to you? So you don't believe the Holy Spirit can handle all the prayers--and so what.

The Holy Spirit certainly can, but millions of you are asking a dead ancestor to pray with you, all at the same time. Answer truthfully, DO YOU BELIEVE MARY IS LISTENING TO THE MILLIONS OF PEOPLE PRAYING AT THE SAME TIME? Or, to put it another way, do you think she hears you when you ask her to pray with you, and what makes your prayer special that she hears it above all the others?

You are certainly not the first to believe prayers go unheard.

I have not said that, at least be honest about what I've written. Prayers to God are always heard but may not be answered the way we want. I'm saying that Mary is not listening to the millions of Catholics all beseeching her to pray with them and get God to do things for them.

You are the first to explain heaven is a chaotic place always being bombarded with prayers. That's not my view of either prayer or heaven.

Again with the misstating of what I said. I didn't say heaven was always being bombarded with prayer, that's something you said. God IS, OTOH, constantly being bombarded with prayer, whether He hears them in heaven or in your heart before you utter a word. And He can handle it. In fact, He told us to pray all the time. Now, if you think heaven is a quiet bunch of people floating around on clouds strumming harps all day long, you haven't read the Scriptures. It's very noisy and busy. So noisy and busy that it was worth noting by John when it went silent for half an hour.

 

[hadit]

You judge people are praying selfishly, and even seem to be condemning them. Remember, when people ask another for prayers, those prayers are to God. It's almost as if you are saying, "It is no fair for Catholics to ask others to pray to God with them!"

Bogus. We ask people to pray with us all the time. Living, breathing people. Again you are fixated on the thought that I oppose corporate prayer when I clearly do not, so stop it.

If you are content in your prayers of you and God alone, why does it disturb you so much that sometimes some of us approach God together? It's not as if we are ganging up on you or even disturbing your alone time with God. We have our alone time as well.

See above, and stop it.

Ever hear the story of the little boy who got scared one night when a thunderstorm awakened him? He called for his mom, and of course she came and comforted him. She also reminded her son that he could always call on God when he was scared. "I know," the little boy responded snuggling closer after another clap of thunder. "But tonight I need God to have skin."

Bingo, exactly what we do. The little boy didn't ask for a dead ancestor to make him feel better, he wanted a living, breathing person to do it. Likewise, we ask fellow Christians to pray for and with us. Why would I expect a dead ancestor who is totally overwhelmed in the presence of Christ to be paying attention to what I'm asking of God?

 

[Cougarbear]

The prayer is a death prayer because mother Mary knew what will happen with her son - and she was there when he died. No one wishes any mother to have to suffer like her.

Concrete: I do not know how many soldiers in the Ukraine are praying this prayer today and how many of them will see the day after tomorrow. But what I am absolutelly not able to understand is how it can happen that the tyrant Putin steals the children of Russian mothers for to send them into his senseless, stupid and cruel war and lets them bring home dead as destroyed fighting machines. Always when I have to think about such themes breaks my heart - specially because it can happen I have to kill such people on my own - but for sure I have to support the Ukrainians who defend themselves and who have not any other chance than to kill and to be killed. What for heavens sake is wrong with us all - what's wrong with the whole mankind? Why do we do such an unbelievable bullshit?

Hail Mary, full of grace,
The Lord is with thee.
Blessed art thou amongst women,
And blessed is the fruit of thy womb, Jesus.
Holy Mary, Mother of God,
Pray for us sinners,
Now and at the hour of our death. Amen.



Ave Maria! Jungfrau mild,
Erhöre einer Jungfrau Flehen,
Aus diesem Felsen starr und wild
Soll mein Gebet zu dir hinwehen.
Wir schlafen sicher bis zum Morgen,
Ob Menschen noch so grausam sind.
O Jungfrau, sieh der Jungfrau Sorgen,
O Mutter, hör ein bittend Kind!
Ave Maria!

Ave Maria! Unbefleckt!
Wenn wir auf diesen Fels hinsinken
Zum Schlaf, und uns dein Schutz bedeckt,
Wird weich der harte Fels uns dünken.
Du lächelst, Rosendüfte wehen
In dieser dumpfen Felsenkluft.
O Mutter, höre Kindes Flehen,
O Jungfrau, eine Jungfrau ruft!
Ave Maria!

Ave Maria! Reine Magd!
Der Erde und der Luft Dämonen,
Von deines Auges Huld verjagt,
Sie können hier nicht bei uns wohnen.
Wir woll'n uns still dem Schicksal beugen,
Da uns dein heil'ger Trost anweht;
Der Jungfrau wolle hold dich neigen,
Dem Kind, das für den Vater fleht.
Ave Maria!


Translation:

Hail Mary! Virgin mild,
Hear a virgin's plea,
From this rock rigid and wild
Let my prayer blow to thee.
We'll sleep safely till morning,
However cruel men may be.
O Virgin, see the Virgin's sorrows,
O Mother, hear a pleading child!
Hail Mary!

Hail Mary! Immaculate!
When we sink down on this rock
To sleep, and your protection covers us,
The hard rock will seem soft to us.
You smile, the scent of roses wafts
In this dull cleft of rock.
O mother, hear the child's plea,
O Virgin, a virgin is calling!
Hail Mary!

Hail Mary! Pure handmaiden!
Demons of earth and air,
Chased away by your grace,
They cannot dwell here with us.
We will bow quietly to fate,
As your holy consolation blows upon us;
To the maiden let us bow,
To the child who pleads for the Father.
Hail Mary!

Translated with DeepL.com (free version)

The Son, Jesus Christ is the only mediator that can make intercession between us and our Father in Heaven. No one else. What does Satan want to do? Separate us from Father in Heaven. Stop communicating with Father through Jesus Christ. That’s Satan’s Plan.

Now, you may say, why then do we ask others living to pray for us or others that need help? Why is that okay but we can’t ask Mary to do the same thing? Again, if you are using your beads and saying your hail Mary’s asking Mary to go to the Father then you are not connected to the Father. You remain separated from Father. Jesus said pray to the Father in the name of the Son. It’s called faith in Christ. It’s called belief in Christ’s atonement. Not hope that Mary will be successful.

 

[Cougarbear]

Luke 1:28

Catholics are praying and meditating on the Gospels. Mary enters the Gospel story when the angel Gabriel comes to her with these words: "Hail Mary, full of grace, the Lord is with you." And so the Gospel prayer begins.

Perhaps it is only Catholics who can see a prayer introducing not only Mary, but grace and the Lord being with us. We, like Mary, can accept God's grace and give birth to Jesus in our own lives. The prayer goes on to address the sin/short-comings in human lives, thus the need for God's grace, his forgiveness, and Jesus' presence in our own lives throughout the day.

One simple prayer addresses how it all begins: With God's grace, with the birth of Jesus into our lives, with the forgiveness of sins. All of this...yet all non-Catholics can see and yammer about is Mary-Mary-Mary and yelp that Catholics are worshiping Mary. They do not see grace. They do not see the birth of Jesus into human lives. They do not see the forgiveness of sins. It is like they don't even know the Gospel. They are too focused on Mary.

“For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus” (1 Timothy 2:5).

Satan works tirelessly attempting to separate us from our Father in Heaven. It was Father in Heaven who cast Lucifer (Satan) out with his devils, a third of the spirits of Heaven. If we need to repent or ask Father in Heaven assistance for ourselves or for other, then we are instructed in this and other scriptures that we speak directly with Father in Heaven and do this in the name of Jesus Christ, the only mediator who will hear our prayers. Can we ask others to pray for ourselves or others? Of course. But, we don't pray to them. Prayer is a communication to our Father in Heaven only. Satan wants us to bypass Father in Heaven and give no praise or authority to His Son, Jesus Christ. Divide and conquer our souls.

 

[Meriweather]

“For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus” (1 Timothy 2:5).

Satan works tirelessly attempting to separate us from our Father in Heaven. It was Father in Heaven who cast Lucifer (Satan) out with his devils, a third of the spirits of Heaven. If we need to repent or ask Father in Heaven assistance for ourselves or for other, then we are instructed in this and other scriptures that we speak directly with Father in Heaven and do this in the name of Jesus Christ, the only mediator who will hear our prayers. Can we ask others to pray for ourselves or others? Of course. But, we don't pray to them. Prayer is a communication to our Father in Heaven only. Satan wants us to bypass Father in Heaven and give no praise or authority to His Son, Jesus Christ. Divide and conquer our souls.

Give.me.a.break. When you ask other to join you in prayer, it is not praying to them, but when Catholics ask others to join in prayer, it is praying to them.

Only non-Catholics call Mary a mediator. Catholics think non-Catholics should know better.

 

[Meriweather]

When you pray, do you tell God that you're praying with Mary, or do you ask her to pray with you?

When people are joined in prayer to God, you actually doubt God can identify everyone in the group or partnership who are praying to him together?

 

[Meriweather]

The Holy Spirit certainly can, but millions of you are asking a dead ancestor to pray with you, all at the same time. Answer truthfully, DO YOU BELIEVE MARY IS LISTENING TO THE MILLIONS OF PEOPLE PRAYING AT THE SAME TIME? Or, to put it another way, do you think she hears you when you ask her to pray with you, and what makes your prayer special that she hears it above all the others?

I haven't a clue as to what you are talking about. Obviously you believe prayer is a chaotic undertaking.

 

[Meriweather]

I'm saying that Mary is not listening to the millions of Catholics all beseeching her to pray with them and get God to do things for them.

I hear you. You seem to think prayer is all about getting God to do things for you. Some don't see prayer in quite that light. How about truly praying God's will be done?

 

[Meriweather]

See above, and stop it.

You don't get that you are starting it? You can start something but you want me to sit back and take it? Very well then.

 

[hadit]

When people are joined in prayer to God, you actually doubt God can identify everyone in the group or partnership who are praying to him together?

Okay, why are you conflating Mary with God? Are you ignoring what I've written?

 

[hadit]

I haven't a clue as to what you are talking about. Obviously you believe prayer is a chaotic undertaking.

Do you seriously want us to believe that millions of people praying all at the same time for different things is not chaotic? You are clearly and deliberately ignoring what I've said on the subject.

 

[hadit]

I hear you. You seem to think prayer is all about getting God to do things for you. Some don't see prayer in quite that light. How about truly praying God's will be done?

Are you saying that she only pays attention when people pray that God's will be done and she ignores all the others?

 

[hadit]

You don't get that you are starting it? You can start something but you want me to sit back and take it? Very well then.

I'm certainly not "starting" saying that I oppose corporate prayer, which is where you always end up and what you need to stop. For the record, I don't, never have.

 

[Meriweather]

Okay, why are you conflating Mary with God? Are you ignoring what I've written?

I'm not. Mary is Mary. God is God. You are the one who seems to think Catholics see her as divine. We don't. Like the rest of us, Mary is a member of the Body of Christ. Period. Not every non-Catholic Christian shouting, Catholics think Mary is divine makes that so. Mary.is.not.divine. I don't know how I can state that more clearly. Perhaps you can stop with the accusation?

 

[Meriweather]

Do you seriously want us to believe that millions of people praying all at the same time for different things is not chaotic? You are clearly and deliberately ignoring what I've said on the subject.

I do not see prayer as chaotic. You seem to equate it with millions of people shouting on earth. Prayer is not shouting and heaven is not earth.

 

[Meriweather]

Are you saying that she only pays attention when people pray that God's will be done and she ignores all the others?

You're asking me to speak for Mary? I am merely telling you how I respond to Mary's request for prayers for peace and God's forgiveness. She hasn't asked to consult with me. It seems to me it is you who wants to get up in her business. I heard her ask for prayers (to God). So I pray (to God). But yes, I do believe the Body of Christ is made up of the living, meaning those who live in this world and those who have passed on. Mary is one of these. She is not alone asking for prayers.

 

[Meriweather]

I'm certainly not "starting" saying that I oppose corporate prayer, which is where you always end up and what you need to stop. For the record, I don't, never have.

Think about it. I don't need to stop unless you finally get it or at least stop talking about it. Sometimes I wonder if Protestants keep a list of things they don't have to do.

 

[hadit]

I'm not. Mary is Mary. God is God. You are the one who seems to think Catholics see her as divine. We don't. Like the rest of us, Mary is a member of the Body of Christ. Period. Not every non-Catholic Christian shouting, Catholics think Mary is divine makes that so. Mary.is.not.divine. I don't know how I can state that more clearly. Perhaps you can stop with the accusation?

When I say Mary can't differentiate between millions of people praying, you say God can. That's fine, but then how does she know you're praying so she can join you, then 5 seconds later, a congregation 10 miles away, an 3 seconds after that, another one 100 miles away?