Is Teaching a respected Profession in This country?

[WorldWatcher]

I say no...it is not. And the last few days certainly has helped prove my point.

Obviously teaching is a respected profession in this country. However, I believe there is more to your post than meets the eye.

Please forgive me if I am wrong, but I don't believe you can separate teaching and a teacher being a member of a union. They are obviously two completely different things. As I've mentioned before, I know dozens of private school teachers that are fantastic teachers and none of them are part of a union. If a teacher wants to be a member of a union, no problem, but not at the expense of doing their primary job. (For example, taking sick days and using students for their own gain is irresponsible IMO.) I'm still unsure as to why teacher unions are so important. Do teachers really have it that bad that they need to pay union dues for representation that they cannot get themselves?

I have great respect for the teaching profession. I've had a number of family members in the profession who are now retired. You ask if teachers really have it that bad. Look at my link below and you tell me. In Oklahoma, a teacher with 25+ years who has a PhD makes a whopping minimum of $46,000 per year. They only make that much because of their union bargaining for them. Unfortunately, since school funding is usually so low, these teachers have to dig into their own pocket for supplies for their classes.

Teacher Salary

Actually just a technical correction KWC, that link does not show the maximum a teacher in Oklahoma can make, what it says is...

"State Minimum Teacher Salary Schedule
Beginning 2010-2011
70 O.S. § 18-114.12
Beginning with the 2010-2011 school year, teachers in the public schools of Oklahoma shall receive in salary and/or fringe benefits not less than the amount specified in the following schedule. When determining minimum salary, “fringe benefits” shall mean only the employee's share of retirement, if paid by the district. "​

That sets the minimum that a teacher can make under those conditions, not the maximum.

For example here is the salary schedule for Oklahoma City Public Schools with higher compensation then what you link to especially since retirements, medical, and insurance is provided in addition to the salary stated.



>>>>

 

[Wicked Jester]

And what is your excuse for coming out so uneducated?

Christ Butch, all your stupid ass can come up with is lame snarky lil' comments about other peoples educations...........Projecting is what you do best. Lord knows you don't have the ability to research for yourself. Don't have the ability to debate beyond one line snarky lil' comments. Must really suck for you to be such a miserable dolt all the time.

You must be picking your ass again, to be so full of shit. If you are so uneducated you cannot debate the topic, why don't you go drool down in the romper room?

Don't blame him....blame his teachers.

LMAO!

Thanks for further proving my point......Fact is, i'd bury in you on an IQ test.....But you keep projecting. It only further shows your glaring weaknesses.

 

[Dr.Drock]

Those that can, Do. Those that can't, Teach.

One of the dumbest assumptions that's out there as a normal perspective (no offense).


Most of my business professors in college were retired successful businessmen who taught because they wanted to. They could've stayed in the private sector and made more money or been on a golf course.

I'm sure this is the same for many teaching areas and levels of teaching.

 

[bodecea]

Do you have any idea how many threats and bogus accusations high school teachers have to deal with? Without a union, any punk who claims "she touched my privates" could have a teacher fired immediately. We had a teacher charged with simple assault for accidently hitting a kid while gesturing the kids to ¤ove during a fire drill. It was dropped - after a fucking year. We had a female teacher accused of groping a girls crotch when she grabbed a fallen paper on her lap. I was accused of making PRANK PHONE CALLS to a kid I hardly knew. That's why we pay union dues. It has little to do with our "outrageous salaries" (cough cough) and everything to do with job protection.

When was the last time someone at your workplace said "I know where you live"?

Yep it comes with the territory. But walk a week in someone else's shoes, and I guarantee teachers will no longer be referred to as "Public Enemy #1"

I hear you Chanel...I've already shared my aunt's horror story. Without the union INSISTING on a mediator, her 20+ year career as a teacher would have been over because the district was willing to roll over for that boy's parents.

 

[Jarhead]

Are teachers on average overpaid?

Here on Long Island NY....

Work year....... 180 days
Mandatory hours to be on school premises.....8AM-4PM
Mandatory schedule.......42 minute lunch break.....42 mninute administrative break (can be used to grade exams or sit in teachers lounge)
Permission by contract.....after 4PM a teacher may private tutor at any cost and do so with students in their class or any student from any school
Going Rate per hour for tutoring.....$60
Salary for teacher with 15 years tenure (usually age 37).....90K
Medical coverage....100% paid family plan including dental and optical
Pension....100% contribution by the town

Overpaid?

Certainly not underpaid

Now, list the salaries of other professionals in Long Island with comparable educations (Professional degrees of 5 years plus)

Comnpare apples to apples.
Lets go the other way.....

Most people work 230 days.....50 days more
Most people in my area with 5 year plus degrees work 8-6.....2 hours more a day...10 hours a week....500 hours a year.....or about the equivalent of about another 45 days based on a teachers work day.

So the others work the equivalent to about 275 days compared to 180 days of teachers.

Now, putting aside the "toll" on those working 275 days compared to working 180 days....

180 days is to 90K a year is equal; to about 137K......which for an attorney who is not partenr is on target.....for an accountant...on target

And again....that is taking two things out of the formula...the toll of 275 days compared to 180 days.....and the fact that both teaqchers and accountants opt to choose their profession.

Teachers are not underpaid.

 

[Dot Com]

Notice how the far RW fringers are quick to attack and label their fellow American workers that are PEACEFULLY protesting their mistreatment as "using the threat of violence."

Yet, when RWers came to public rallies with rifles and assault weapons they called it excersizing their Rights.

Interesting how that works in the Far RW minds...isn't it?

Raygun musta told them that education was evil. No wonder they're always trying to de-fund the Dept of Education. Wonder how many of the RW-ranters on this thread were home schooled?

 

[bodecea]

Those that can, Do. Those that can't, Teach.

One of the dumbest assumptions that's out there as a normal perspective (no offense).


Most of my business professors in college were retired successful businessmen who taught because they wanted to. They could've stayed in the private sector and made more money or been on a golf course.

I'm sure this is the same for many teaching areas and levels of teaching.

Many are ex-military.

 

[bodecea]

Here on Long Island NY....

Work year....... 180 days
Mandatory hours to be on school premises.....8AM-4PM
Mandatory schedule.......42 minute lunch break.....42 mninute administrative break (can be used to grade exams or sit in teachers lounge)
Permission by contract.....after 4PM a teacher may private tutor at any cost and do so with students in their class or any student from any school
Going Rate per hour for tutoring.....$60
Salary for teacher with 15 years tenure (usually age 37).....90K
Medical coverage....100% paid family plan including dental and optical
Pension....100% contribution by the town

Overpaid?

Certainly not underpaid

Now, list the salaries of other professionals in Long Island with comparable educations (Professional degrees of 5 years plus)

Comnpare apples to apples.
Lets go the other way.....

Most people work 230 days.....50 days more
Most people in my area with 5 year plus degrees work 8-6.....2 hours more a day...10 hours a week....500 hours a year.....or about the equivalent of about another 45 days based on a teachers work day.

So the others work the equivalent to about 275 days compared to 180 days of teachers.

Now, putting aside the "toll" on those working 275 days compared to working 180 days....

180 days is to 90K a year is equal; to about 137K......which for an attorney who is not partenr is on target.....for an accountant...on target

And again....that is taking two things out of the formula...the toll of 275 days compared to 180 days.....and the fact that both teaqchers and accountants opt to choose their profession.

Teachers are not underpaid.

I notice that you did not provide those figures. That bad, eh?

 

[BenNatuf]

I say no...it is not. And the last few days certainly has helped prove my point.

It was before Unions got involved. Now its just another loud whinny group of malcontented entitlists.

 

[Dr.Drock]

Those that can, Do. Those that can't, Teach.

One of the dumbest assumptions that's out there as a normal perspective (no offense).


Most of my business professors in college were retired successful businessmen who taught because they wanted to. They could've stayed in the private sector and made more money or been on a golf course.

I'm sure this is the same for many teaching areas and levels of teaching.

Many are ex-military.

My history professor in college was like a 40 year military veteran who said "I'm going to teach until the doctor tells me I can't anymore." He was a GREAT teacher who I'll never forget.

But I'm sure he was only teaching because he got booted out of the military and couldn't find work elsewhere..........................

 

[California Girl]

How would you like it if all the doctors and nurses went on strike? Huh?

I'm sorry...you seem to be under the impression that that has not happened before. It does. I blame your teachers for not teaching you how to research an assertion before making it.

Not in Florida. We are a right to work state and Nurses cannot legally strike. Nurses care about their patients. Evidently teachers don't give a fuck about their kids otherwise they'd have their asses in the classroon teaching.

You're lumping individuals into a group. They aren't. There are many excellent teachers, there are many average teachers, there are a few shit teachers. And the majority care very much about their students. This is two separate issues - striking to protect your benefits - however, wrong - does not make anyone an uncaring or bad teacher.

 

[bodecea]

You must be picking your ass again, to be so full of shit. If you are so uneducated you cannot debate the topic, why don't you go drool down in the romper room?

Don't blame him....blame his teachers.

LMAO!

Thanks for further proving my point......Fact is, i'd bury in you on an IQ test.....But you keep projecting. It only further shows your glaring weaknesses.

See? If Wicked had had a decent education, he would know that IQ is an indicator of intelligence, not of one's education...that's why children are given IQ tests in 3rd grade....but, again. I blame his teachers. Not his fault. They didn't make it "fun" enough for him.

 

[bodecea]

One of the dumbest assumptions that's out there as a normal perspective (no offense).


Most of my business professors in college were retired successful businessmen who taught because they wanted to. They could've stayed in the private sector and made more money or been on a golf course.

I'm sure this is the same for many teaching areas and levels of teaching.

Many are ex-military.

My history professor in college was like a 40 year military veteran who said "I'm going to teach until the doctor tells me I can't anymore." He was a GREAT teacher who I'll never forget.

But I'm sure he was only teaching because he got booted out of the military and couldn't find work elsewhere..........................

And he hates kids, and he's only in it for the money..........

 

[Tech_Esq]

I have many teachers in my family, both of my Grandmothers were teachers and of my father's family 3 out of 4 were teachers and out of my generation, 6 out of 14 are teachers with another 3 being nurses...and 2 firefighters. And then 2 of us military. We have public service in our bloodline.

And it is amazing to watch how in the last 20 years how teaching has come to be so denigrated. Why do we wonder at how we compare with other countries and cultures that respect education and educators?

Could it possibly be that it's because in the last twenty years more students are failing at an alarming rate. That teachers are proving to be more inept at an alarming rate. That the unions fight tooth and nail to prevent lousy teachers from being shitcanned. That the more money from taxpayers being used to supplement union benefits is causing less money to go into the classrooms?

But I guess it's all the parents fault. at least that's what the teachers and their corrupt unions try to blame it all on. Surely they have nothing to do with it.

Fact is, Bad parenting is responsible. Lousy teachers are responsible. Unions protecting lousy teachers are responsible.

Teachers require MORE education than they did over 20 years ago. Teachers require MORE credentialling than they did over 20 years ago. Teachers require MORE inserving than they did 20 years ago.

What the students expected to do? Unfortunately, students today expect to be Entertained, NOT Educated. They are passive and don't take an active part in their own education...and their parents expect teachers to be babysitters. Parents who tell teachers that their kids are the schools' problem from 8-3. Parents who put schools on caller block. Parents who never show up for conferences. Parents who sue schools at the drop of a hat. Who do you think kids learn from MORE?

We all require more and more education. Teachers are not special in that regard. I'm 46 and just got done attending even more classes for my job. I've got two certifications that have continuing education requirements and that after obtaining a double major in college and a Juris Doctor degree. We all live in a new world. If you want to be a member of a profession, you better expect to keep learning all your life.

On your other note, I've seen the way that teachers routinely attempt to undermine parental authority. I've had kids in school for over 20 years now. I've seen it. And we have some of the best schools in the country.

 

[BenNatuf]

Are teachers on average overpaid?

Here on Long Island NY....

Work year....... 180 days
Mandatory hours to be on school premises.....8AM-4PM
Mandatory schedule.......42 minute lunch break.....42 mninute administrative break (can be used to grade exams or sit in teachers lounge)
Permission by contract.....after 4PM a teacher may private tutor at any cost and do so with students in their class or any student from any school
Going Rate per hour for tutoring.....$60
Salary for teacher with 15 years tenure (usually age 37).....90K
Medical coverage....100% paid family plan including dental and optical
Pension....100% contribution by the town

Overpaid?

Certainly not underpaid

Now, list the salaries of other professionals in Long Island with comparable educations (Professional degrees of 5 years plus)

has absolutely nothing to do with demand, which is the determinant of wages. If you spend 5 years and a bunch of money getting an education for the purpose of earning 30K, then you needed a little more than an education before you started (like a brain maybe).

If you did that because you're a dedicated teacher and love the profession, then stop whining about the pay you knew you'd get before you ever started.

 

[Stephanie]

Don't blame him....blame his teachers.

LMAO!

Thanks for further proving my point......Fact is, i'd bury in you on an IQ test.....But you keep projecting. It only further shows your glaring weaknesses.

See? If Wicked had had a decent education, he would know that IQ is an indicator of intelligence, not of one's education...that's why children are given IQ tests in 3rd grade....but, again. I blame his teachers. Not his fault. They didn't make it "fun" enough for him.

holy smokes, you haven't wore that one insult on others edumacations out yet?

 

[bucs90]

Don't blame him....blame his teachers.

LMAO!

Thanks for further proving my point......Fact is, i'd bury in you on an IQ test.....But you keep projecting. It only further shows your glaring weaknesses.

See? If Wicked had had a decent education, he would know that IQ is an indicator of intelligence, not of one's education...that's why children are given IQ tests in 3rd grade....but, again. I blame his teachers. Not his fault. They didn't make it "fun" enough for him.

How can YOU comment one someone else's low IQ?

You didn't know police background checks DQ'ed people for drug use and associations with terrorists.

And on this very thread, YOU were confused when I said taxes are taken by threat of violence.

You have no place to question another's IQ.

 

[kwc57]

Obviously teaching is a respected profession in this country. However, I believe there is more to your post than meets the eye.

Please forgive me if I am wrong, but I don't believe you can separate teaching and a teacher being a member of a union. They are obviously two completely different things. As I've mentioned before, I know dozens of private school teachers that are fantastic teachers and none of them are part of a union. If a teacher wants to be a member of a union, no problem, but not at the expense of doing their primary job. (For example, taking sick days and using students for their own gain is irresponsible IMO.) I'm still unsure as to why teacher unions are so important. Do teachers really have it that bad that they need to pay union dues for representation that they cannot get themselves?

I have great respect for the teaching profession. I've had a number of family members in the profession who are now retired. You ask if teachers really have it that bad. Look at my link below and you tell me. In Oklahoma, a teacher with 25+ years who has a PhD makes a whopping minimum of $46,000 per year. They only make that much because of their union bargaining for them. Unfortunately, since school funding is usually so low, these teachers have to dig into their own pocket for supplies for their classes.

Teacher Salary

Why the assumption that it'd be under $46,000 without the union?

Well, as I said, I had family in the teaching profession who were around before and after the union. The can compare apples to apples and pay......even as poor as it is now......is better than it was.

 

[Dr.Drock]

I have great respect for the teaching profession. I've had a number of family members in the profession who are now retired. You ask if teachers really have it that bad. Look at my link below and you tell me. In Oklahoma, a teacher with 25+ years who has a PhD makes a whopping minimum of $46,000 per year. They only make that much because of their union bargaining for them. Unfortunately, since school funding is usually so low, these teachers have to dig into their own pocket for supplies for their classes.

Teacher Salary

Why the assumption that it'd be under $46,000 without the union?

Well, as I said, I had family in the teaching profession who were around before and after the union. The can compare apples to apples and pay......even as poor as it is now......is better than it was.

Right but things change with time and modernization as well, doesn't have to be a result of a union.

I would think parents would want good teachers, as would administrators, as would students so that would cause good wages. If a good teacher feels he/she is underpaid they'll go somewhere that pays them appropriately because their skills are in demand.

 

[Harry Dresden]

(For example, taking sick days and using students for their own gain is irresponsible IMO.) I'm still unsure as to why teacher unions are so important. Do teachers really have it that bad that they need to pay union dues for representation that they cannot get themselves?

X....are you saying if said teacher has the flu they should come in anyway and infect the kids who then go home and infect their household?...just asking.....