Is Rick Perry Dumb?

[Sallow]

It costs us by sacrificing the rule of law and basic principles of equal protections. It turns government into a favor-factory - ready, willing and able to offer quid pro quo 'special offers' to companies that respond in kind. It's government via horse-trading and connections rather than principle and law.

It just baffles the crap out of me that it's so hard to see what the problem is in this country. Pure and simple it's the concentration of wealth.

i'm not sure what leap you're trying to make. This is about government colluding with business. That might produce concentration of wealth, it might not. Either way it's wrong. I guess you're trying to push this in to the 'redistribute the wealth' rubric, but it really doesn't fit. In fact, setting government up to be in charge of distributing wealth is what creates the problem in the first place.

It does and it doesn't.

No known sucessful human civilization exists without government. And government is the means we use to collectively distribute goods and services. It's something primordial to our fabric. We figured out long ago the concept of many hands making light work.

Right now, we've been veering from a more sensible distribution of wealth to a less sensible distribution of wealth That's something this country initially fought. The idea that leadership was a mandate from god. And wealth was defined by providence and birthright.

We've had a rocky road until the New Deal which really created the American Middle Class. None existed before. The the same mindset opposed to independence from England has been working overtime to create the same conditions that existed in England in our country.

The idea that leadership is a mandate from god and that wealth is defined by providence and birthright.

 

[Sallow]

It costs us by sacrificing the rule of law and basic principles of equal protections. It turns government into a favor-factory - ready, willing and able to offer quid pro quo 'special offers' to companies that respond in kind. It's government via horse-trading and connections rather than principle and law.

It just baffles the crap out of me that it's so hard to see what the problem is in this country. Pure and simple it's the concentration of wealth.

We haven't had any major calamities in terms of things that generate wealth, like agriculture, mining, or manufacturing. What we have had is a small number of people extracting a good deal of wealth from the economy while moving some of what generates our wealth and prosperity to other nations.

THAT..has got to stop.

you very well may be correct.

However, the only way to stop it is to have government control it...and that will mean having government control all businesses....and that is not the direction we should go.
We, the people should stop it. You dont like Microsoft shipping jobs overseas? dont buy from Microsoft. You dont like GE shipping jobs overseas? Dont buy GE.

Sorry...I dont believe in all should be punished due to the actions of a few.

But that's the way it's always been.

 

[Sallow]

Interestingly enough..one of the reasons Marxism ultimately is a failure..is because it seeks the elimination of government.

 

[Jarhead]

It just baffles the crap out of me that it's so hard to see what the problem is in this country. Pure and simple it's the concentration of wealth.

We haven't had any major calamities in terms of things that generate wealth, like agriculture, mining, or manufacturing. What we have had is a small number of people extracting a good deal of wealth from the economy while moving some of what generates our wealth and prosperity to other nations.

THAT..has got to stop.

you very well may be correct.

However, the only way to stop it is to have government control it...and that will mean having government control all businesses....and that is not the direction we should go.
We, the people should stop it. You dont like Microsoft shipping jobs overseas? dont buy from Microsoft. You dont like GE shipping jobs overseas? Dont buy GE.

Sorry...I dont believe in all should be punished due to the actions of a few.

But that's the way it's always been.

No sir. I disagree.

No one made anyone sign for a mortgage they couldnt afford. That was the signees decision.

No one made anyone siogn for an ARM without looking at all possibilities. The signee made that decision

No one made anyone sign a credit card agreement without reading the fine print. That was the signees decision.

No one forced anyone to invest in the market. That was a decision made by the investor who wanted his/her money to make easy money for him/her.

I am sorry. I dont agree with all of that "the big boys hurt the little people". They cant hurt you if you dont let them.

So if you are a victim of the actions of a few, it is becuase you allowed yourself to be one.

 

[Sallow]

you very well may be correct.

However, the only way to stop it is to have government control it...and that will mean having government control all businesses....and that is not the direction we should go.
We, the people should stop it. You dont like Microsoft shipping jobs overseas? dont buy from Microsoft. You dont like GE shipping jobs overseas? Dont buy GE.

Sorry...I dont believe in all should be punished due to the actions of a few.

But that's the way it's always been.

No sir. I disagree.

No one made anyone sign for a mortgage they couldnt afford. That was the signees decision.

No one made anyone siogn for an ARM without looking at all possibilities. The signee made that decision

No one made anyone sign a credit card agreement without reading the fine print. That was the signees decision.

No one forced anyone to invest in the market. That was a decision made by the investor who wanted his/her money to make easy money for him/her.

I am sorry. I dont agree with all of that "the big boys hurt the little people". They cant hurt you if you dont let them.

So if you are a victim of the actions of a few, it is becuase you allowed yourself to be one.

Oh gosh..

Each and every one of your examples brings up some very unfair and unscrupulous practices by business agents.

For example..loan agents that lied about potential client's salaries, and signing for the clients to take mortgage insurance without the client knowning.

Read up on Daniel Sadek.

 

[rightwinger]

It costs us by sacrificing the rule of law and basic principles of equal protections. It turns government into a favor-factory - ready, willing and able to offer quid pro quo 'special offers' to companies that respond in kind. It's government via horse-trading and connections rather than principle and law.

It just baffles the crap out of me that it's so hard to see what the problem is in this country. Pure and simple it's the concentration of wealth.

i'm not sure what leap you're trying to make. This is about government colluding with business. That might produce concentration of wealth, it might not. Either way it's wrong. I guess you're trying to push this in to the 'redistribute the wealth' rubric, but it really doesn't fit. In fact, setting government up to be in charge of distributing wealth is what creates the problem in the first place.

The government does not redistribute wealth from the standpoint of taking money from one and giving it to another

The government acts more like a basketball referee. A good referee ensures a level playing field and gives both sides an equal opportunity to score. If the referee is calling the game in favor of one side.......you have a lopsided score

And boy do we have a lopsided score

 

[LibocalypseNow]

He a Racist too!! Oh and he be a Terrorist!!...Blah Blah Blah. Same old smears used on anyone who runs against the Hopey Changey One. The Left/Democrats sound dumb these days. I think most Americans agree with me on that. See ya in 2012.

 

[Jarhead]

But that's the way it's always been.

No sir. I disagree.

No one made anyone sign for a mortgage they couldnt afford. That was the signees decision.

No one made anyone siogn for an ARM without looking at all possibilities. The signee made that decision

No one made anyone sign a credit card agreement without reading the fine print. That was the signees decision.

No one forced anyone to invest in the market. That was a decision made by the investor who wanted his/her money to make easy money for him/her.

I am sorry. I dont agree with all of that "the big boys hurt the little people". They cant hurt you if you dont let them.

So if you are a victim of the actions of a few, it is becuase you allowed yourself to be one.

Oh gosh..

Each and every one of your examples brings up some very unfair and unscrupulous practices by business agents.

For example..loan agents that lied about potential client's salaries, and signing for the clients to take mortgage insurance without the client knowning.

Read up on Daniel Sadek.

Jeez...

read up on....pahleese

Only the borrower can lie about his/her salary on the application (which is an affidavit once signed)

The unscrupulous loan agent cant do anything with that loan without the borrower FIRST lying and signing.

Once you do something unethical, such as lie on a loan application, you open yourself up to the lack of ethics of others.

 

[Sallow]

It just baffles the crap out of me that it's so hard to see what the problem is in this country. Pure and simple it's the concentration of wealth.

i'm not sure what leap you're trying to make. This is about government colluding with business. That might produce concentration of wealth, it might not. Either way it's wrong. I guess you're trying to push this in to the 'redistribute the wealth' rubric, but it really doesn't fit. In fact, setting government up to be in charge of distributing wealth is what creates the problem in the first place.

The government does not redistribute wealth from the standpoint of taking money from one and giving it to another

The government acts more like a basketball referee. A good referee ensures a level playing field and gives both sides an equal opportunity to score. If the referee is calling the game in favor of one side.......you have a lopsided score

And boy do we have a lopsided score

Exactly.

 

[Sallow]

No sir. I disagree.

No one made anyone sign for a mortgage they couldnt afford. That was the signees decision.

No one made anyone siogn for an ARM without looking at all possibilities. The signee made that decision

No one made anyone sign a credit card agreement without reading the fine print. That was the signees decision.

No one forced anyone to invest in the market. That was a decision made by the investor who wanted his/her money to make easy money for him/her.

I am sorry. I dont agree with all of that "the big boys hurt the little people". They cant hurt you if you dont let them.

So if you are a victim of the actions of a few, it is becuase you allowed yourself to be one.

Oh gosh..

Each and every one of your examples brings up some very unfair and unscrupulous practices by business agents.

For example..loan agents that lied about potential client's salaries, and signing for the clients to take mortgage insurance without the client knowning.

Read up on Daniel Sadek.

Jeez...

read up on....pahleese

Only the borrower can lie about his/her salary on the application (which is an affidavit once signed)

The unscrupulous loan agent cant do anything with that loan without the borrower FIRST lying and signing.

Once you do something unethical, such as lie on a loan application, you open yourself up to the lack of ethics of others.

That's untrue.

 

[Jarhead]

Oh gosh..

Each and every one of your examples brings up some very unfair and unscrupulous practices by business agents.

For example..loan agents that lied about potential client's salaries, and signing for the clients to take mortgage insurance without the client knowning.

Read up on Daniel Sadek.

Jeez...

read up on....pahleese

Only the borrower can lie about his/her salary on the application (which is an affidavit once signed)

The unscrupulous loan agent cant do anything with that loan without the borrower FIRST lying and signing.

Once you do something unethical, such as lie on a loan application, you open yourself up to the lack of ethics of others.

That's untrue.

anyone can forge a signature...and if the signature is a forgery, it is easy to prove and one goes to jail and the other is not liable for the losses.

But that is not what is the issue here.

Applicants for mortgages were told that there was leniency as it pertained to income and job checks...so they were told by the unscrupulous loan agents to stretch the truth about their incomes as they would not get caught...and if they did not stretch the truth about their incomes, they would likely not get the loan.

So they stretched the truth...lied in effect...and then signed the application which had the disclaimer that siad "I attest to the following as true to the best of my knowledge"

Now...the only way those people got hurt was by intentionally lying on an affidavit. Yes, they were pooorly advised...but they made the conscious decision to lie.

 

[Sallow]

anyone can forge a signature...and if the signature is a forgery, it is easy to prove and one goes to jail and the other is not liable for the losses.

But that is not what is the issue here.

Applicants for mortgages were told that there was leniency as it pertained to income and job checks...so they were told by the unscrupulous loan agents to stretch the truth about their incomes as they would not get caught...and if they did not stretch the truth about their incomes, they would likely not get the loan.

So they stretched the truth...lied in effect...and then signed the application which had the disclaimer that siad "I attest to the following as true to the best of my knowledge"

Now...the only way those people got hurt was by intentionally lying on an affidavit. Yes, they were pooorly advised...but they made the conscious decision to lie.

It's not even a matter of forgery. Buying a home is extremely complicated. I don't ever do it without hiring a lawyer.

Some people can't afford to do that. And they sign things they don't understand.

It's why I asked you to read up on Daniel Sadek..a predatory lender. For all the bashing you guys do of Freddie and Fannie..they use to do background checks on loans.

That changed once they were out of the equation and financial institutions were doing the guaranteeing. It was all about volume. And they were having pizza delivery guys doing loan agreements. No licensing required. They were told to get quantity not quality. Which is what they did.

And that was the tip of a very big iceberg.

 

[Jarhead]

anyone can forge a signature...and if the signature is a forgery, it is easy to prove and one goes to jail and the other is not liable for the losses.

But that is not what is the issue here.

Applicants for mortgages were told that there was leniency as it pertained to income and job checks...so they were told by the unscrupulous loan agents to stretch the truth about their incomes as they would not get caught...and if they did not stretch the truth about their incomes, they would likely not get the loan.

So they stretched the truth...lied in effect...and then signed the application which had the disclaimer that siad "I attest to the following as true to the best of my knowledge"

Now...the only way those people got hurt was by intentionally lying on an affidavit. Yes, they were pooorly advised...but they made the conscious decision to lie.

It's not even a matter of forgery. Buying a home is extremely complicated. I don't ever do it without hiring a lawyer.

Some people can't afford to do that. And they sign things they don't understand.

It's why I asked you to read up on Daniel Sadek..a predatory lender. For all the bashing you guys do of Freddie and Fannie..they use to do background checks on loans.

That changed once they were out of the equation and financial institutions were doing the guaranteeing. It was all about volume. And they were having pizza delivery guys doing loan agreements. No licensing required. They were told to get quantity not quality. Which is what they did.

And that was the tip of a very big iceberg.

there is my point...

"Some people can't afford to do that. And they sign things they don't understand"

First of all, if you can not afford to hire an attorney, then you most certainly not able to afford to buy a home. The cost of an attorney is part of your costs affiliated with home ownership.

Yes, the financial institutions were having a field day...I agree...but if the borrower DID NOT LIE, they would not have gotten the loan.

What you may not be familair with (and many arent...I am becuase my wife is a settlemernt attorney...she represents the lenders)....is the underwriting process.

An underwriter is independent from the bank and uses the information offered by the application and the information offered by the appraiser to determine whether or not a loan is viable....the underwriter does not do the background check..the bank does..or it doesnt...but whatever the bank gives to the underwriterr, the underwriter uses....

So the only way the underwirter will approve a loan is if the income stated is worthy of the loan...and if the borrower lied, then the underwriter is working with a lie.

So yes, the bank is at fault.....but the borrower is at a greater fault...for if the borrower didnt lie, the bank couldnt do ITS unscrupulous stuff.

 

[Care4all]

fyi

[What is a NINJA Loan? A NINJA loan is a description of mortgage loan that originated without the important documentation to prove that the applicant can reasonably adhere to the loan terms. It stands for “No Income, No Job or Assets.”
Many of these loans were based on unsubstantiated lies from either the applicant, the mortgage broker or both. The lender that ultimately approved the loan did so without exercising due diligence to ensure that the applicant could afford the mortgage.
Additionally, many of these loans were packaged and sold to other lenders. Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac may have bought some of these loans. Additionally, many of these loans packages ended up in investors hands as Collateralized Debt Obligations (CDOs).


CDOs were previously viewed as relatively safe investments, since they were secured by real property. However, with many of these properties now worth less than the loan balance and record numbers of homeowners losing their homes to foreclosure, many CDOs were subject to heavy losses that would be incurred by investorsThe root of all of these problems is the NINJA loan. The greed that caused most investors and related companies to turn a blind eye to the potential risks put our entire financial system at risk. All of this occurred because of the weakness of mortgage regulations that allowed for these “stated income” loans to occur in the first place....

As long as financial institutions accept poorly documented loan applications and investors still purchase the loan portfolios, there will always be a much higher risk to our financial system.

read the full article here: NINJA Loans to Blame for Financial Crisis | Vision Credit Education, Inc.

 

[Jarhead]

fyi

[What is a NINJA Loan? A NINJA loan is a description of mortgage loan that originated without the important documentation to prove that the applicant can reasonably adhere to the loan terms. It stands for “No Income, No Job or Assets.”
Many of these loans were based on unsubstantiated lies from either the applicant, the mortgage broker or both. The lender that ultimately approved the loan did so without exercising due diligence to ensure that the applicant could afford the mortgage.
Additionally, many of these loans were packaged and sold to other lenders. Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac may have bought some of these loans. Additionally, many of these loans packages ended up in investors hands as Collateralized Debt Obligations (CDOs).


CDOs were previously viewed as relatively safe investments, since they were secured by real property. However, with many of these properties now worth less than the loan balance and record numbers of homeowners losing their homes to foreclosure, many CDOs were subject to heavy losses that would be incurred by investorsThe root of all of these problems is the NINJA loan. The greed that caused most investors and related companies to turn a blind eye to the potential risks put our entire financial system at risk. All of this occurred because of the weakness of mortgage regulations that allowed for these “stated income” loans to occur in the first place....

As long as financial institutions accept poorly documented loan applications and investors still purchase the loan portfolios, there will always be a much higher risk to our financial system.

read the full article here: NINJA Loans to Blame for Financial Crisis | Vision Credit Education, Inc.

yes...

But again, the borrower had to lie on the application. Whereas it sayss the borrower OR the broker.....it HAD to be the borrower as well....for if the broker al;tered the application without the borrowers consent, the broker would be held liable.

Fuirthermore, at the closing, you are also asked to review the documents...sign each of them...and this includes the application.

If it were altered, you woulkd know it.

In other words...yes, many capitalized on these ninja loans.....but they could only become issues if the borrower lied.

So...as was this debate...you can only get hurt by the big boys if you allow yourself to get hurt. In this case, if you didnt lie, you couldnt get hurt.

 

[dblack]

No known sucessful human civilization exists without government. And government is the means we use to collectively distribute goods and services.

That's the problem. The more government does that, the more people will seek to use government to 'distribute' wealth in their direction. That's the source of your skewed concentration of wealth, not the cure.

 

[dblack]

The government does not redistribute wealth from the standpoint of taking money from one and giving it to another

When government uses it's power, as Perry and most other politicians these days do, to manipulate people and business with ad hoc tax rates, tax credits, incentives, mandates, special regulatory exemptions, etc, etc, it is most certainly redistributing wealth.

 

[Fyght]

Rick Perry will be your new President. The man is sharp as a whip and turned Texas into an economic powerhouse.

 

[Care4all]

fyi

[What is a NINJA Loan? A NINJA loan is a description of mortgage loan that originated without the important documentation to prove that the applicant can reasonably adhere to the loan terms. It stands for “No Income, No Job or Assets.”
Many of these loans were based on unsubstantiated lies from either the applicant, the mortgage broker or both. The lender that ultimately approved the loan did so without exercising due diligence to ensure that the applicant could afford the mortgage.
Additionally, many of these loans were packaged and sold to other lenders. Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac may have bought some of these loans. Additionally, many of these loans packages ended up in investors hands as Collateralized Debt Obligations (CDOs).


CDOs were previously viewed as relatively safe investments, since they were secured by real property. However, with many of these properties now worth less than the loan balance and record numbers of homeowners losing their homes to foreclosure, many CDOs were subject to heavy losses that would be incurred by investorsThe root of all of these problems is the NINJA loan. The greed that caused most investors and related companies to turn a blind eye to the potential risks put our entire financial system at risk. All of this occurred because of the weakness of mortgage regulations that allowed for these “stated income” loans to occur in the first place....

As long as financial institutions accept poorly documented loan applications and investors still purchase the loan portfolios, there will always be a much higher risk to our financial system.

read the full article here: NINJA Loans to Blame for Financial Crisis | Vision Credit Education, Inc.

yes...

But again, the borrower had to lie on the application. Whereas it sayss the borrower OR the broker.....it HAD to be the borrower as well....for if the broker al;tered the application without the borrowers consent, the broker would be held liable.

Fuirthermore, at the closing, you are also asked to review the documents...sign each of them...and this includes the application.

If it were altered, you woulkd know it.

In other words...yes, many capitalized on these ninja loans.....but they could only become issues if the borrower lied.

So...as was this debate...you can only get hurt by the big boys if you allow yourself to get hurt. In this case, if you didnt lie, you couldnt get hurt.

Just think about this for a second or two Jarhead....

Ask yourself....

WHY WOULD the Banks create NINJA loans in the first place?

WHY did they want to offer loans to people without checking and verifying, who had no income, no jobs or assets?

Seriously...why?

BECAUSE they wanted people to LIE....they wanted the ability to give out more loans to people WHO DID NOT QUALIFY....because they ran out of good, qualified and verifiable people to give loans to....

the banks are at fault...bottom line, they were suppose to do due diligence in securing the loans, for their stockholders, who gave them their money to lend out to RESPONSIBLE customers.

they marketed these Ninja loans from here to high heaven towards those who they knew did NOT QUALIFY for a conventional or even the adjustable subprime loans. It was a set up.....for them to lie.

the banks and mortgage companies were negligent....to say the least.


that's how I see it....

 

[Jarhead]

fyi

read the full article here: NINJA Loans to Blame for Financial Crisis | Vision Credit Education, Inc.

yes...

But again, the borrower had to lie on the application. Whereas it sayss the borrower OR the broker.....it HAD to be the borrower as well....for if the broker al;tered the application without the borrowers consent, the broker would be held liable.

Fuirthermore, at the closing, you are also asked to review the documents...sign each of them...and this includes the application.

If it were altered, you woulkd know it.

In other words...yes, many capitalized on these ninja loans.....but they could only become issues if the borrower lied.

So...as was this debate...you can only get hurt by the big boys if you allow yourself to get hurt. In this case, if you didnt lie, you couldnt get hurt.

Just think about this for a second or two Jarhead....

Ask yourself....

WHY WOULD the Banks create NINJA loans in the first place?

WHY did they want to offer loans to people without checking and verifying, who had no income, no jobs or assets?

Seriously...why?

BECAUSE they wanted people to LIE....they wanted the ability to give out more loans to people WHO DID NOT QUALIFY....because they ran out of good, qualified and verifiable people to give loans to....

the banks are at fault...bottom line, they were suppose to do due diligence in securing the loans, for their stockholders, who gave them their money to lend out to RESPONSIBLE customers.

they marketed these Ninja loans from here to high heaven towards those who they knew did NOT QUALIFY for a conventional or even the adjustable subprime loans. It was a set up.....for them to lie.

the banks and mortgage companies were negligent....to say the least.


that's how I see it....

whoa...wait a minute.....
I thought you knew my philosophy.
I was in a debate about how the big guy can only hurt you if yiou let them.
I was not saying the big guy does not want to hurt you...he does....that is life...it is reality.

They not only expected you to lie...they hoped darn hard you would lie.

But thwe bottom line...if you didnt lie, you couldnt get hurt.

Now...this is the honest truth about my recent re-fi, (about 3 years ago)

The appraiser appriased my house at about 750....it was appariased at over 900 less than 2 years before.

I called the appraiser and asked why.....and he gave me some song and dance...and then said...anmd i swear this is true...."tell me what you want me to appraise it at"

I told him 750....why? Becuase if I had issues, I wanted it to all be legit.

Lie and you can get hurt. Live on a ghope, you can get hurt. Gamble and you can get hurt. Assume the best and not prepare for the worst and you can get hurt.