Is Public School Education Under-funded?

[mgh80]

Underfunded?

Hard to say

If you keep classroom sizes 20-25 you are probably adequately funded
30 and above and you are underfunded

25 or 30 is not that big a difference.

Actually it's a very big difference (at least in a core classroom).

 

[Unkotare]

Underfunded?

Hard to say

If you keep classroom sizes 20-25 you are probably adequately funded
30 and above and you are underfunded

25 or 30 is not that big a difference.

Actually it's a very big difference (at least in a core classroom).

Not really.

 

[rightwinger]

Underfunded?

Hard to say

If you keep classroom sizes 20-25 you are probably adequately funded
30 and above and you are underfunded

25 or 30 is not that big a difference.

Cutting corners on classroom size has a major impact on the quality of instruction

 

[rdean]

Is Public School Education Under-funded?

Depends on the state.

 

[Unkotare]

Underfunded?

Hard to say

If you keep classroom sizes 20-25 you are probably adequately funded
30 and above and you are underfunded

25 or 30 is not that big a difference.

Cutting corners on classroom size has a major impact on the quality of instruction

"Cutting corners"?

 

[Slyhunter]

There are a lot of great private schools. There are a lot of great public schools.

No argument. Care to give us a percentage of Public Schools that can compare favorably with private schools in their area and how much more money is spent per student than at the private school?

Care to give us a percentage of private schools with a mandate to educate every school-aged kid in the district?

The advantage of the private school is that it can shuffle all those test scores around much easier than public schools. Might read Diane Ravitch to see all the tricks that private schools use to raise test scores on paper but not in reality.





Here in Nevada, if the ACLU loses their lawsuit, the average student will be able to find out. Nevada enacted the most comprehensive school voucher program in the USA and that will make it possible for people to enjoy the benefits of a private school.

I simply look at the amount of kids going to private school in my area who go on to college. That number is over 95% and more to the point they go right into a 4 year college and usually with loads of scholarships. Further, the graduation rate is above 90% as well. They perform an order of magnitude better than the public schools in all areas save athletics. For less money spent per student.

Key, is they do it for less money per student.
Teachers are over payed.
They get 3 months vacation. Retire early. It's time they competed for their jobs like everyone else does.

 

[rightwinger]

Underfunded?

Hard to say

If you keep classroom sizes 20-25 you are probably adequately funded
30 and above and you are underfunded

25 or 30 is not that big a difference.

Cutting corners on classroom size has a major impact on the quality of instruction

"Cutting corners"?

Being obtuse?

 

[Unkotare]

Underfunded?

Hard to say

If you keep classroom sizes 20-25 you are probably adequately funded
30 and above and you are underfunded

25 or 30 is not that big a difference.

Cutting corners on classroom size has a major impact on the quality of instruction

"Cutting corners"?

Being obtuse?

Seeking clarification.

 

[regent]

No argument. Care to give us a percentage of Public Schools that can compare favorably with private schools in their area and how much more money is spent per student than at the private school?

Care to give us a percentage of private schools with a mandate to educate every school-aged kid in the district?

The advantage of the private school is that it can shuffle all those test scores around much easier than public schools. Might read Diane Ravitch to see all the tricks that private schools use to raise test scores on paper but not in reality.





Here in Nevada, if the ACLU loses their lawsuit, the average student will be able to find out. Nevada enacted the most comprehensive school voucher program in the USA and that will make it possible for people to enjoy the benefits of a private school.

I simply look at the amount of kids going to private school in my area who go on to college. That number is over 95% and more to the point they go right into a 4 year college and usually with loads of scholarships. Further, the graduation rate is above 90% as well. They perform an order of magnitude better than the public schools in all areas save athletics. For less money spent per student.

Key, is they do it for less money per student.
Teachers are over payed.
They get 3 months vacation. Retire early. It's time they competed for their jobs like everyone else does.

So if a person did not go into teaching they would have to be pretty stupid to pass up one of those cushy jobs? Even those that have trouble spelling would be grabbed up by a district.
Teachers are laid-off during the summer months and the competition to teach the few summer school jobs can be intense. If teaching was such a great job twenty percent would not quit after the first five years. Imagine putting all that time and money into preparation to teach and then discover it is not the plum one thought, and just leave.
I suspect all the propaganda both private and public school send out, if it were all true why would we be having educational problems?

 

[OnePercenter]

Care to provide a link to where any of the vouchers have been issued yet? Here in Nevada we are at least a year out.

Sure

• In 1989,the Wisconsin legislature passed the nation’s first modern school voucher program targeting students from low income households in the Milwaukee School District.
• In 2001, Florida enacted the John M. McKay Scholarships Program for Students with Disabilities becoming the first state to offer private school vouchers to students with disabilities.
• In 2004, the first federally funded and administered voucher program was enacted by Congress in Washington, D.C. It offered private school vouchers to low income students, giving priority to those attending low-performing public schools
• In 2007, the Utah legislature passed legislation creating the first statewide universal school voucher program, meaning it was available to any student in state with no limitations on student eligibility. A petition effort successfully placed the legislation on the state ballot for voter approval. In November 2007, the ballot measure was voted down and the new voucher program was never implemented. Utah’s existing special needs voucher program was not affected by the vote.
• In 2011, Indiana created the nation’s first state-wide school voucher program for low income students

http://www.ncsl.org/research/education/school-choice-vouchers.aspx

 

[westwall]

Care to provide a link to where any of the vouchers have been issued yet? Here in Nevada we are at least a year out.

Sure

• In 1989,the Wisconsin legislature passed the nation’s first modern school voucher program targeting students from low income households in the Milwaukee School District.
• In 2001, Florida enacted the John M. McKay Scholarships Program for Students with Disabilities becoming the first state to offer private school vouchers to students with disabilities.
• In 2004, the first federally funded and administered voucher program was enacted by Congress in Washington, D.C. It offered private school vouchers to low income students, giving priority to those attending low-performing public schools
• In 2007, the Utah legislature passed legislation creating the first statewide universal school voucher program, meaning it was available to any student in state with no limitations on student eligibility. A petition effort successfully placed the legislation on the state ballot for voter approval. In November 2007, the ballot measure was voted down and the new voucher program was never implemented. Utah’s existing special needs voucher program was not affected by the vote.
• In 2011, Indiana created the nation’s first state-wide school voucher program for low income students

http://www.ncsl.org/research/education/school-choice-vouchers.aspx

Did you pay attention to this part of your link?

"though some gains have been found among low income and minority students who receive vouchers.

Other research has found voucher recipients are more likely to graduate from higher school than their public school counterparts"

 

[regent]

Care to provide a link to where any of the vouchers have been issued yet? Here in Nevada we are at least a year out.

Sure

• In 1989,the Wisconsin legislature passed the nation’s first modern school voucher program targeting students from low income households in the Milwaukee School District.
• In 2001, Florida enacted the John M. McKay Scholarships Program for Students with Disabilities becoming the first state to offer private school vouchers to students with disabilities.
• In 2004, the first federally funded and administered voucher program was enacted by Congress in Washington, D.C. It offered private school vouchers to low income students, giving priority to those attending low-performing public schools
• In 2007, the Utah legislature passed legislation creating the first statewide universal school voucher program, meaning it was available to any student in state with no limitations on student eligibility. A petition effort successfully placed the legislation on the state ballot for voter approval. In November 2007, the ballot measure was voted down and the new voucher program was never implemented. Utah’s existing special needs voucher program was not affected by the vote.
• In 2011, Indiana created the nation’s first state-wide school voucher program for low income students

http://www.ncsl.org/research/education/school-choice-vouchers.aspx

Did you pay attention to this part of your link?

"though some gains have been found among low income and minority students who receive vouchers.

Other research has found voucher recipients are more likely to graduate from higher school than their public school counterparts"

Now why do you suppose that might be?

 

[OnePercenter]

Care to provide a link to where any of the vouchers have been issued yet? Here in Nevada we are at least a year out.

Sure

• In 1989,the Wisconsin legislature passed the nation’s first modern school voucher program targeting students from low income households in the Milwaukee School District.
• In 2001, Florida enacted the John M. McKay Scholarships Program for Students with Disabilities becoming the first state to offer private school vouchers to students with disabilities.
• In 2004, the first federally funded and administered voucher program was enacted by Congress in Washington, D.C. It offered private school vouchers to low income students, giving priority to those attending low-performing public schools
• In 2007, the Utah legislature passed legislation creating the first statewide universal school voucher program, meaning it was available to any student in state with no limitations on student eligibility. A petition effort successfully placed the legislation on the state ballot for voter approval. In November 2007, the ballot measure was voted down and the new voucher program was never implemented. Utah’s existing special needs voucher program was not affected by the vote.
• In 2011, Indiana created the nation’s first state-wide school voucher program for low income students

http://www.ncsl.org/research/education/school-choice-vouchers.aspx

Did you pay attention to this part of your link?

"though some gains have been found among low income and minority students who receive vouchers.

Other research has found voucher recipients are more likely to graduate from higher school than their public school counterparts"

Now why do you suppose that might be?

Parents interest.

Being a numbers guy I get suspicious when 'some' and 'more likely' replace numbers.

 

[westwall]

Care to provide a link to where any of the vouchers have been issued yet? Here in Nevada we are at least a year out.

Sure

• In 1989,the Wisconsin legislature passed the nation’s first modern school voucher program targeting students from low income households in the Milwaukee School District.
• In 2001, Florida enacted the John M. McKay Scholarships Program for Students with Disabilities becoming the first state to offer private school vouchers to students with disabilities.
• In 2004, the first federally funded and administered voucher program was enacted by Congress in Washington, D.C. It offered private school vouchers to low income students, giving priority to those attending low-performing public schools
• In 2007, the Utah legislature passed legislation creating the first statewide universal school voucher program, meaning it was available to any student in state with no limitations on student eligibility. A petition effort successfully placed the legislation on the state ballot for voter approval. In November 2007, the ballot measure was voted down and the new voucher program was never implemented. Utah’s existing special needs voucher program was not affected by the vote.
• In 2011, Indiana created the nation’s first state-wide school voucher program for low income students

http://www.ncsl.org/research/education/school-choice-vouchers.aspx

Did you pay attention to this part of your link?

"though some gains have been found among low income and minority students who receive vouchers.

Other research has found voucher recipients are more likely to graduate from higher school than their public school counterparts"

Now why do you suppose that might be?

Because vouchers add competition to the equation so the schools are forced to improve. ECON 101.

 

[WorldWatcher]

Now why do you suppose that might be?

Because vouchers add competition to the equation so the schools are forced to improve. ECON 101.

Or it could be that...

(a) Those that receive vouchers are attending Private Schools, if they were rejected by Private Schools the student remained in the Public School and didn't count as using a voucher.

(b) Private schools are free to reject students and expel students for behavioral or academic problems. Again those students are then returned to the Public Schools system.​

It's pretty easy to show improved graduation rates when (a) the school can pick and choose students, and (b) get rid of students. It's harder to improve scores and rates when you are mandated by law to accept all students, expend a great amount of effort to keep them in school, and be where it very difficult to expel students.

Common Sense 101.



>>>>

 

[regent]

As standards change so might the student body. This has been one of the problems of measuring schools, the student body changes; increase the school difficulty and kids drop or transfer to another school and bingo soon a failing school has improved over a period of time. So it is with schools labeled charter schools. At first blush they sound quite academic and rigorous but who knows what's down the pike.
I often thought a school should have two test-taking classes, one with the more able students, and one with the less able and it could have any results it wanted. Would the public be the wiser?

 

[bodecea]

No argument. Care to give us a percentage of Public Schools that can compare favorably with private schools in their area and how much more money is spent per student than at the private school?

Care to give us a percentage of private schools with a mandate to educate every school-aged kid in the district?

The advantage of the private school is that it can shuffle all those test scores around much easier than public schools. Might read Diane Ravitch to see all the tricks that private schools use to raise test scores on paper but not in reality.





Here in Nevada, if the ACLU loses their lawsuit, the average student will be able to find out. Nevada enacted the most comprehensive school voucher program in the USA and that will make it possible for people to enjoy the benefits of a private school.

I simply look at the amount of kids going to private school in my area who go on to college. That number is over 95% and more to the point they go right into a 4 year college and usually with loads of scholarships. Further, the graduation rate is above 90% as well. They perform an order of magnitude better than the public schools in all areas save athletics. For less money spent per student.

Key, is they do it for less money per student.
Teachers are over payed.
They get 3 months vacation. Retire early. It's time they competed for their jobs like everyone else does.

No...teachers do not get 3 months vacation.

 

[Slyhunter]

Care to give us a percentage of private schools with a mandate to educate every school-aged kid in the district?

The advantage of the private school is that it can shuffle all those test scores around much easier than public schools. Might read Diane Ravitch to see all the tricks that private schools use to raise test scores on paper but not in reality.





Here in Nevada, if the ACLU loses their lawsuit, the average student will be able to find out. Nevada enacted the most comprehensive school voucher program in the USA and that will make it possible for people to enjoy the benefits of a private school.

I simply look at the amount of kids going to private school in my area who go on to college. That number is over 95% and more to the point they go right into a 4 year college and usually with loads of scholarships. Further, the graduation rate is above 90% as well. They perform an order of magnitude better than the public schools in all areas save athletics. For less money spent per student.

Key, is they do it for less money per student.
Teachers are over payed.
They get 3 months vacation. Retire early. It's time they competed for their jobs like everyone else does.

No...teachers do not get 3 months vacation.

Do too.

 

[WorldWatcher]

No...teachers do not get 3 months vacation.

Do too.

Technically teachers don't get vacation.

Actually the teachers in my school division are contracted for 200 days and earn no vacation time. Non-teacher full time employment is 5*52 = 260 days. (250 workdays if you assume 2-weeks paid vacation.) Teachers are not paid for the summer either are regular workdays or as vacation days.


>>>>

 

[mgh80]

Underfunded?

Hard to say

If you keep classroom sizes 20-25 you are probably adequately funded
30 and above and you are underfunded

25 or 30 is not that big a difference.

Actually it's a very big difference (at least in a core classroom).

Not really.

It's much easier to teach a class of 25 students than it is a class of 30. That's 5 less students you have to worry about DIing for, 5 less kids likely to be troublemakers (which in some schools is rampant), and in classrooms it opens up your room so much and allows for more types of instructional methods and tools.

Could you imagine dealing with 30 snot-nosed, entitled, arrogant, hormone filled teenagers? It's not easy, I assure you of that.

I personally can handle 30 students on a discipline level, my rapport and respect in my classrooms are incredibly high. However many of my students need specific one-on-one attention following the instruction objectives, and honestly introducing an extra 5 kids takes away from everybody's education in the classroom. My concern isn't how easy my job is--it's how much the students will absorb from my class.