Is Public School Education Under-funded?

[WorldWatcher]

The time that parents spend with their kids WHILE THEY'RE AWAKE is around 5 to 6 hours per day. The rest of the time it's sleepy time. Teachers spend at least 7 hours with the kids. So yes, my statement is correct.

Parents:
365 days * 5.5 hours per day = 2007.5 Hours

Teachers
180 Days * (7 - .5 lunch hour) = 1170 Hours


>>>>

 

[Conservative65]

While every state and every school district is different, I think my own state of Pennsylvania may be representative of the status quo, at least among the northern states. We spend upwards of $20k per year on every student, K-12, which is more than three times what was spent in 1960, even adjusted for inflation.

"Test scores" (however that is defined) have not improved; in fact, they have deteriorated by some measures. More kids go from 12th grade in public schools to college, but colleges have gone from a training ground for the elite to a dumping ground for anyone who wants to delay adulthood for a couple years and can scrounge up the money to do it. (Our astronomical student debt proves that point).

The culture has not helped educational outcomes. In fact, it fosters an attitude that is not conducive to hard work, studying, seeking out knowledge, or assuming responsibility for one's own success or the lack of it. In our schools, failure is excused and mediocrity is hailed as outstanding. Whole classes of students graduate with GPA's of 3-point-something, which means without any doubt that the grading system is phony - implemented to make the students feel good and the teachers feel like they have accomplished something.

Schools have gone from places where kids were taught "the Three R's" to institutions that provide sex education, political indoctrination, substance abuse counseling, breakfast and lunch, babysitting services, and extracurricular activities that are so extensive that they take the primary focus totally away from education for many of the "students."

Teacher compensation has gone from subsistence level (in the 60's) to be better than 90% of other degreed "professionals" in the Real World, when you consider salary, benefits, vacation, and early retirement. It has gone from a "vocation" involving sacrifice for the betterment of society, to a "dream job" that attracts thousands more applications every year than the system can even process (in the better school districts).

And yet, Democrat politicians continue to hammer at the theme that public education is not adequately funded, and that's why the "results" are do disappointing. Here in Pennsylvania, our Governor has staked his entire Governorship on a demand that the Republican legislature hit our natural gas industry with a heavy new tax, and give that money to the education establishment. We have gone 4 months without a state budget as a result of his drawing this line in the sand.

Having worked for 8 years in the public sector and since 1975 in the private sector, I have seen two diametrically opposed approaches to a perceived shortage of funding. In the private sector, Management eliminates headcount, cuts expenses, and demands that everyone remaining "do more with less." Six months later, we wonder what the gone people did for a living, because we've gotten along without them. In the Public Sector, the only conceivable reaction to a perceived shortage of funding (which is the state of existence basically ALL THE TIME), is a demand for more funding.

Is public education underfunded, or is it just a giant hole in the budget that absorbs everything thrown into it, and keeps demanding more? It should be obvious what I think.

In some areas yes. In most of them though the answer would be no. Public schools in most areas are over funded. Of course most of that money go's into the pockets of the administrators and not the teachers. That needs to be addressed.

Where I live, there are too many Chiefs and not enough Indians.

 

[Conservative65]

The parents are the ones who are to reinforce what the teachers are doing in class. Those parents who don't are failing in this area.

Yes, the parents can indeed undermine progress that has been made in school. No argument. However good teachers can overcome that to the largest extent. But the claim that teachers bear no responsibility for the abominable performance on their students is ridiculous. Private schools provide better education for less money than public schools. That is a fact. Teachers in public schools are nearly impossible to get rid of if they are bad. Teachers that are outstanding are reviled by the other teachers in their school because it makes them look bad.

Out in Dayton i think it was just a few years ago they had a outstanding teacher who was voted best in the state and he was let go instead of another teacher who had been there a little longer when they had an economic downturn. That is the madness that is our public school system.

So a teacher can overcome in 1 hour/day what thousands of hours from childhood didn't do? That's ridiculous.

Private schools perform better with less money because they can, unlike public schools, get rid of those who don't want to learn. The public school system has to keep them and coddle them thinking they will turn around.

The time that parents spend with their kids WHILE THEY'RE AWAKE is around 5 to 6 hours per day. The rest of the time it's sleepy time. Teachers spend at least 7 hours with the kids. So yes, my statement is correct.

Where do you get teachers spend 7 hours/day with A student?

 

[Unkotare]

The parents are the ones who are to reinforce what the teachers are doing in class. Those parents who don't are failing in this area.

Yes, the parents can indeed undermine progress that has been made in school. No argument. However good teachers can overcome that to the largest extent. But the claim that teachers bear no responsibility for the abominable performance on their students is ridiculous. Private schools provide better education for less money than public schools. That is a fact. Teachers in public schools are nearly impossible to get rid of if they are bad. Teachers that are outstanding are reviled by the other teachers in their school because it makes them look bad.

.

Um...NO.

 

[westwall]

The parents are the ones who are to reinforce what the teachers are doing in class. Those parents who don't are failing in this area.

Yes, the parents can indeed undermine progress that has been made in school. No argument. However good teachers can overcome that to the largest extent. But the claim that teachers bear no responsibility for the abominable performance on their students is ridiculous. Private schools provide better education for less money than public schools. That is a fact. Teachers in public schools are nearly impossible to get rid of if they are bad. Teachers that are outstanding are reviled by the other teachers in their school because it makes them look bad.

.

Um...NO.

Ummmmm... YEAH!

 

[Unkotare]

The parents are the ones who are to reinforce what the teachers are doing in class. Those parents who don't are failing in this area.

Yes, the parents can indeed undermine progress that has been made in school. No argument. However good teachers can overcome that to the largest extent. But the claim that teachers bear no responsibility for the abominable performance on their students is ridiculous. Private schools provide better education for less money than public schools. That is a fact. Teachers in public schools are nearly impossible to get rid of if they are bad. Teachers that are outstanding are reviled by the other teachers in their school because it makes them look bad.

.

Um...NO.

Ummmmm... YEAH!

No. Good teachers are not resented.

 

[Unkotare]

There are a lot of great private schools. There are a lot of great public schools.

 

[westwall]

The parents are the ones who are to reinforce what the teachers are doing in class. Those parents who don't are failing in this area.

Yes, the parents can indeed undermine progress that has been made in school. No argument. However good teachers can overcome that to the largest extent. But the claim that teachers bear no responsibility for the abominable performance on their students is ridiculous. Private schools provide better education for less money than public schools. That is a fact. Teachers in public schools are nearly impossible to get rid of if they are bad. Teachers that are outstanding are reviled by the other teachers in their school because it makes them look bad.

.

Um...NO.

Ummmmm... YEAH!

No. Good teachers are not resented.

By crap teachers they most certainly are.

 

[westwall]

There are a lot of great private schools. There are a lot of great public schools.

No argument. Care to give us a percentage of Public Schools that can compare favorably with private schools in their area and how much more money is spent per student than at the private school?

 

[Unkotare]

The parents are the ones who are to reinforce what the teachers are doing in class. Those parents who don't are failing in this area.

Yes, the parents can indeed undermine progress that has been made in school. No argument. However good teachers can overcome that to the largest extent. But the claim that teachers bear no responsibility for the abominable performance on their students is ridiculous. Private schools provide better education for less money than public schools. That is a fact. Teachers in public schools are nearly impossible to get rid of if they are bad. Teachers that are outstanding are reviled by the other teachers in their school because it makes them look bad.

.

Um...NO.

Ummmmm... YEAH!

No. Good teachers are not resented.

By crap teachers they most certainly are.

Nope

 

[Unkotare]

There are a lot of great private schools. There are a lot of great public schools.

No argument. Care to give us a percentage of Public Schools that can compare favorably with private schools in their area and how much more money is spent per student than at the private school?

Care to give us a percentage of private schools with a mandate to educate every school-aged kid in the district?

 

[rightwinger]

Underfunded?

Hard to say

If you keep classroom sizes 20-25 you are probably adequately funded
30 and above and you are underfunded

 

[Unkotare]

Underfunded?

Hard to say

If you keep classroom sizes 20-25 you are probably adequately funded
30 and above and you are underfunded

25 or 30 is not that big a difference.

 

[westwall]

There are a lot of great private schools. There are a lot of great public schools.

No argument. Care to give us a percentage of Public Schools that can compare favorably with private schools in their area and how much more money is spent per student than at the private school?

Care to give us a percentage of private schools with a mandate to educate every school-aged kid in the district?

Here in Nevada, if the ACLU loses their lawsuit, the average student will be able to find out. Nevada enacted the most comprehensive school voucher program in the USA and that will make it possible for people to enjoy the benefits of a private school.

 

[regent]

There are a lot of great private schools. There are a lot of great public schools.

No argument. Care to give us a percentage of Public Schools that can compare favorably with private schools in their area and how much more money is spent per student than at the private school?

Care to give us a percentage of private schools with a mandate to educate every school-aged kid in the district?

The advantage of the private school is that it can shuffle all those test scores around much easier than public schools. Might read Diane Ravitch to see all the tricks that private schools use to raise test scores on paper but not in reality.





Here in Nevada, if the ACLU loses their lawsuit, the average student will be able to find out. Nevada enacted the most comprehensive school voucher program in the USA and that will make it possible for people to enjoy the benefits of a private school.

 

[westwall]

There are a lot of great private schools. There are a lot of great public schools.

No argument. Care to give us a percentage of Public Schools that can compare favorably with private schools in their area and how much more money is spent per student than at the private school?

Care to give us a percentage of private schools with a mandate to educate every school-aged kid in the district?

The advantage of the private school is that it can shuffle all those test scores around much easier than public schools. Might read Diane Ravitch to see all the tricks that private schools use to raise test scores on paper but not in reality.





Here in Nevada, if the ACLU loses their lawsuit, the average student will be able to find out. Nevada enacted the most comprehensive school voucher program in the USA and that will make it possible for people to enjoy the benefits of a private school.

I simply look at the amount of kids going to private school in my area who go on to college. That number is over 95% and more to the point they go right into a 4 year college and usually with loads of scholarships. Further, the graduation rate is above 90% as well. They perform an order of magnitude better than the public schools in all areas save athletics. For less money spent per student.

 

[regent]

There are a lot of great private schools. There are a lot of great public schools.

No argument. Care to give us a percentage of Public Schools that can compare favorably with private schools in their area and how much more money is spent per student than at the private school?

Care to give us a percentage of private schools with a mandate to educate every school-aged kid in the district?

The advantage of the private school is that it can shuffle all those test scores around much easier than public schools. Might read Diane Ravitch to see all the tricks that private schools use to raise test scores on paper but not in reality.





Here in Nevada, if the ACLU loses their lawsuit, the average student will be able to find out. Nevada enacted the most comprehensive school voucher program in the USA and that will make it possible for people to enjoy the benefits of a private school.

I simply look at the amount of kids going to private school in my area who go on to college. That number is over 95% and more to the point they go right into a 4 year college and usually with loads of scholarships. Further, the graduation rate is above 90% as well. They perform an order of magnitude better than the public schools in all areas save athletics. For less money spent per student.

Might want to read some of the large studies done on private schools and their success rate.

 

[westwall]

No argument. Care to give us a percentage of Public Schools that can compare favorably with private schools in their area and how much more money is spent per student than at the private school?

Care to give us a percentage of private schools with a mandate to educate every school-aged kid in the district?

The advantage of the private school is that it can shuffle all those test scores around much easier than public schools. Might read Diane Ravitch to see all the tricks that private schools use to raise test scores on paper but not in reality.





Here in Nevada, if the ACLU loses their lawsuit, the average student will be able to find out. Nevada enacted the most comprehensive school voucher program in the USA and that will make it possible for people to enjoy the benefits of a private school.

I simply look at the amount of kids going to private school in my area who go on to college. That number is over 95% and more to the point they go right into a 4 year college and usually with loads of scholarships. Further, the graduation rate is above 90% as well. They perform an order of magnitude better than the public schools in all areas save athletics. For less money spent per student.

Might want to read some of the large studies done on private schools and their success rate.

I have. My wife is a IO psychologist. She is very current on current teaching methods.

 

[OnePercenter]

When parents begin to, in droves, think of public school as a warehouse, a baby sitting service and they don't have to participate in any way....yeah, money's not gonna help at all.

I think most parents due to wage disparagement don't have the time since both have to work.

Funneling public education monies to private schools hasn't helped. Really, really, nice payback for Republican contributors.

 

[westwall]

When parents begin to, in droves, think of public school as a warehouse, a baby sitting service and they don't have to participate in any way....yeah, money's not gonna help at all.

I think most parents due to wage disparagement don't have the time since both have to work.

Funneling public education monies to private schools hasn't helped. Really, really, nice payback for Republican contributors.

Care to provide a link to where any of the vouchers have been issued yet? Here in Nevada we are at least a year out.