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That's between the Church and its membership. Obama and Government have no place in this. He just needs to respect what the church stands for.
But if Obama wants to pick this fight, then he may do so at the risk of being reelected. We shall see.
btw... In full disclosure, if you haven't guessed I happen to be Catholic. I'm also pro-choice. But pro-Choice to me means just that. Everyone chooses for themselves without Government interference of any kind.
Well, I'm an ex-Catholic who hates the Church with a passion. Not Catholics themselves, most of my relatives are still practicing Catholics. So I don't mind seeing the church getting needled on this one.
Now, all of that said, the Church is probably on weak ground on this one, because there are already a lot of regulations on health care and what can and can't be covered. Also, the rank and file catholics probably don't want the Chruch dictating this sort of thing.
BUt Obama's going to be re-elected by Catholics because Romney is a horrible human being.
Real Simple... Catholic based Hospitals don't want to take part in the AHA? Fine... No Federal funds...saves the taxpayers money, I guess.
I agree. The choice to take federal funds for hospitals, even the use of state approved school texts and bus services was a mistake, IMO. That is where it's gotten to this point. It can be reversed simply by becoming Catholic services ONLY. If the urban poor wish to send their kids to Catholic schools, they can convert to the faith. Catholics in general then should make their primary charity giving Catholic based.
What a set-up.... As soon as the Catholic charities started turning away non-Catholics, you would be joining the band screaming "discrimmination"!
You have people that using charity treat people without discrimmination, the best ways they know. Some (soon to be all if Obamacare is not repealed) of those people are covered by gov't insurance. Your advice: don't take money for services rendered, because the gov't pays for other services you don't offer. This is like refusing to pay a transmission shop because they will not do body work and paint your car.
That's between the Church and its membership. Obama and Government have no place in this. He just needs to respect what the church stands for.
But if Obama wants to pick this fight, then he may do so at the risk of being reelected. We shall see.
btw... In full disclosure, if you haven't guessed I happen to be Catholic. I'm also pro-choice. But pro-Choice to me means just that. Everyone chooses for themselves without Government interference of any kind.
Well, I'm an ex-Catholic who hates the Church with a passion. Not Catholics themselves, most of my relatives are still practicing Catholics. So I don't mind seeing the church getting needled on this one.
Now, all of that said, the Church is probably on weak ground on this one, because there are already a lot of regulations on health care and what can and can't be covered. Also, the rank and file catholics probably don't want the Chruch dictating this sort of thing.
BUt Obama's going to be re-elected by Catholics because Romney is a horrible human being.
"catholics probably don't want the Chruch dictating this sort of thing."
So you would rather have the Government dictating this? I have a choice with the Church. I can choose to remain Catholic and just ignore it, or I can follow a different Faith. With the Government dictating such things I really have no choice, unless I want to get heavily fined or even imprisoned.
Why does Pro-Choice with Liberals never really seem to be just that, a "Choice".
This just proves that Liberals aren't interested in "choice". It's their way or the highway. Obama will never win this fight with the Catholic Church. Obama, Pelosi and Reid sre such a joke.
Oh... we're all about CHOICE... it's the Conservatives that have an issue with Choice...especially when it pertains to OTHER people's sins.
What is an x catholic? I attended a catholic school for the first 8 years learning that there probably isnt a more hypocritical outfit in the country.
As far as the flocks reaction, it will be the same as anywhere else in the country. Not many will care.
I must ask you the same question I asked a leftie yesterday. What method are you using to determine the victor?
The Crystal ball
The Eight ball or
Tarot cards/
Have you lined up a therapist to nurture you through the tough times if wrong?
I just read this, so if there is another thread on the topic, my apologies and would ask the mods to merge it. Also, if this is wrong, and any of the liberals / Dems want to refute it, please do so. Because, frankly, I find it stunning that this is true. I can't believe the Democrat party would do something this stupid. (Of course, the conservatives will replay "Why not?")
With gaffe-a-day-Romney and Barack Oncompetent the two candidates, it could be an interesting battle of two guys dueling to shoot themselves in the head faster than the other guy.
A Battle the President Can't Win - WSJ.com
So what's your problem with this. Why should ANY employer be dictate to an employee what his health care should be.
Most Catholics practice birth control, and a lot of employees of Catholic institutions are in fact not even Catholics.
Well, I'm an ex-Catholic who hates the Church with a passion. Not Catholics themselves, most of my relatives are still practicing Catholics. So I don't mind seeing the church getting needled on this one.
Now, all of that said, the Church is probably on weak ground on this one, because there are already a lot of regulations on health care and what can and can't be covered. Also, the rank and file catholics probably don't want the Chruch dictating this sort of thing.
BUt Obama's going to be re-elected by Catholics because Romney is a horrible human being.
"catholics probably don't want the Chruch dictating this sort of thing."
So you would rather have the Government dictating this? I have a choice with the Church. I can choose to remain Catholic and just ignore it, or I can follow a different Faith. With the Government dictating such things I really have no choice, unless I want to get heavily fined or even imprisoned.
Why does Pro-Choice with Liberals never really seem to be just that, a "Choice".
"In reality, the rule, part of the Affordable Care Act, exempts houses of worship and other religious nonprofits that primarily employ and serve people of the same faith. "
I just read this, so if there is another thread on the topic, my apologies and would ask the mods to merge it. Also, if this is wrong, and any of the liberals / Dems want to refute it, please do so. Because, frankly, I find it stunning that this is true. I can't believe the Democrat party would do something this stupid. (Of course, the conservatives will replay "Why not?")
With gaffe-a-day-Romney and Barack Oncompetent the two candidates, it could be an interesting battle of two guys dueling to shoot themselves in the head faster than the other guy.
A Battle the President Can't Win - WSJ.com
So what's your problem with this. Why should ANY employer be dictate to an employee what his health care should be.
Most Catholics practice birth control, and a lot of employees of Catholic institutions are in fact not even Catholics.
Dictating is the essence of both Obama and ObamaCare.
Thus, he is the prefect candidate for the Left.
But that is exactly the problem. The Catholic Church does not 'primarily employ and serve people of the same faith'. For example, the Church funds Hospitals. Those hospitals treat anyone, regardless of race, color, creed or sexual orientation. We turn no one away... and those who are uninsured - that cost is met by the Church - not by taxpayers.... If this stands, our hospitals will be forced to withdraw those vital, life saving services to others.
No, you've got it wrong. The acceptance of Medicare/Medicaid, the acceptance of state provided texts, government funding to help provide charitable meals, clinics, etc., has given the government the right to coerce participation in providing a low-cost product that the institution, if not all the members, find morally reprehensible.
The administration drew the lines clearly: If the service is staffed by members of the religion and services are provided to those of the religion; they do not need to provide that particular coverage. The answer is simple, stop providing the services and employing those not in that group.
I meant if they did stop serving and hiring non-catholics, and stop taking federal funding.
As I said, that's the entire debate. Is it really a "Catholic [whatever]" if it's not of, for, and by Catholics? Or is "Catholic" just a brand?
Catholic means universal. By not serving non Catholics would turn from being Catholic to just being a brand.
Not true about 'serving non-Catholics.' Universal means 'welcoming all' not what you are implying. That is part of the 'social justice' branch of Catholic Church, truly socialist at best, communist at heart.
But that is exactly the problem. The Catholic Church does not 'primarily employ and serve people of the same faith'. For example, the Church funds Hospitals. Those hospitals treat anyone, regardless of race, color, creed or sexual orientation. We turn no one away... and those who are uninsured - that cost is met by the Church - not by taxpayers.... If this stands, our hospitals will be forced to withdraw those vital, life saving services to others.
Or they can just say, "Wow, Our fucking beliefs are stupid, and not even supported by ONE VERSE in the bible. And 98% of our own members who are affected by the policy- which is women with working uteri, are totally blowing us off on this anyway. Whatever were we thinking?"
But this is the same Catholic church that looks at rows of empty pews every Sunday and wondering why no one gives a crap anymore.
and they are more than free to practice them. They just can't impose them on other people.
im pretty sure this thread is about Obama imposing something on them.....
Well, I'm sure that's what Boro wants you to believe, but nope. It's about them complying with the law, just like everyone else has to.
The law says you have to provide the option of family planning if you are offering a health plan. That seems pretty reasonable and pretty fair to me, to be honest. Saving the preaching and the moralizing for the pulpit, where I have the option of ignoring you.
What is an x catholic? I attended a catholic school for the first 8 years learning that there probably isnt a more hypocritical outfit in the country.
As far as the flocks reaction, it will be the same as anywhere else in the country. Not many will care.
I must ask you the same question I asked a leftie yesterday. What method are you using to determine the victor?
The Crystal ball
The Eight ball or
Tarot cards/
Have you lined up a therapist to nurture you through the tough times if wrong?
I'm not worried about being wrong. I'm worried about how much damage Romney is going to do on the way down. It's not just losing to Obama, but it's how many house and senate seats the GOP should win that they won't because they have this moron on the top of the ticket.
Here's why I know Romney is a loser-
1) Most Republicans don't like him. He hasn't topped 50% in a primary or caucus yet.
2) Primary/Caucus participation is DOWN from 2008. Not something you see in an election where there is massive enthusaism for change.
3) Romney main argument is that the economy sucks. But the economy doesn't suck as bad as it did two years ago.
4) The only reason he's besting truly awful opponents is because he's outspending them something like 5-1. He'll be outspent by Obama by about 2-1.
5) Mormonism. Sorry. It'll still scare the straights.
But that is exactly the problem. The Catholic Church does not 'primarily employ and serve people of the same faith'. For example, the Church funds Hospitals. Those hospitals treat anyone, regardless of race, color, creed or sexual orientation. We turn no one away... and those who are uninsured - that cost is met by the Church - not by taxpayers.... If this stands, our hospitals will be forced to withdraw those vital, life saving services to others.
Or they can just say, "Wow, Our fucking beliefs are stupid, and not even supported by ONE VERSE in the bible. And 98% of our own members who are affected by the policy- which is women with working uteri, are totally blowing us off on this anyway. Whatever were we thinking?"
But this is the same Catholic church that looks at rows of empty pews every Sunday and wondering why no one gives a crap anymore.
Is Obama Really this Stupid?
Hmmmmm......... Trick Question, ..... Right???
Oh... we're all about CHOICE... it's the Conservatives that have an issue with Choice...especially when it pertains to OTHER people's sins.
Where is the "choice" in Obamacare?
The "choice" is the taxpayer shouldn't be stuck with the bill. You are mandated to buy car insurance. And the only reason for that it to protect others from your miserable choices. Same with health care. Ever notice how many Republicans are old and gienormous.
And don't say some stupid shit like, "Well then don't drive".
But that is exactly the problem. The Catholic Church does not 'primarily employ and serve people of the same faith'. For example, the Church funds Hospitals. Those hospitals treat anyone, regardless of race, color, creed or sexual orientation. We turn no one away... and those who are uninsured - that cost is met by the Church - not by taxpayers.... If this stands, our hospitals will be forced to withdraw those vital, life saving services to others.
Or they can just say, "Wow, Our fucking beliefs are stupid, and not even supported by ONE VERSE in the bible. And 98% of our own members who are affected by the policy- which is women with working uteri, are totally blowing us off on this anyway. Whatever were we thinking?"
But this is the same Catholic church that looks at rows of empty pews every Sunday and wondering why no one gives a crap anymore.
Over 77 million Catholics attend services in the US. It's the fourth largest denomination in the world. Over 35 million are registered voters. About 54% vote Democrat. I'd say we're doing just fine - despite your personal abandonment of your values. But, hey, thanks for the hysterical hyperbole. It's entertaining.
Today there are fewer parishes and fewer priests than in 1990 and fewer of the nation's 65 million Catholics in those pews. And there's no sign of return.
The Archdiocese of Boston, epicenter of the crisis, sold chancery property to cover $85 million in settlements last year, and this year will close 67 churches and recast 16 others as new parishes or worship sites without a full-time priest.
Archbishop Sean O'Malley has said the crisis and the reconfiguration plan are "in no way" related. He cites demographic shifts, the priest shortage and aging, crumbling buildings too costly to keep up.
Fargo, N.D., which spent $821,000 on the abuse crisis, will close 23 parishes, but it's because the diocese is short more than 50 priests for its 158 parishes, some with fewer than a dozen families attending Mass.
Or they can just say, "Wow, Our fucking beliefs are stupid, and not even supported by ONE VERSE in the bible. And 98% of our own members who are affected by the policy- which is women with working uteri, are totally blowing us off on this anyway. Whatever were we thinking?"
But this is the same Catholic church that looks at rows of empty pews every Sunday and wondering why no one gives a crap anymore.
Over 77 million Catholics attend services in the US. It's the fourth largest denomination in the world. Over 35 million are registered voters. About 54% vote Democrat. I'd say we're doing just fine - despite your personal abandonment of your values. But, hey, thanks for the hysterical hyperbole. It's entertaining.
Okay, you can keep telling yourself that.... of course, when I occassionally go to Catholic family things, I'm not impressed. The Catholic Church is so short on priests that Deacons are doing baptisms now. Not enough priests to go around.
Fact is, on this issue, most catholics support birth control and a slim plurality support abortion rights.
As for church attendence... too bad, so sad.
USATODAY.com - Church struggles with change
Today there are fewer parishes and fewer priests than in 1990 and fewer of the nation's 65 million Catholics in those pews. And there's no sign of return.
The Archdiocese of Boston, epicenter of the crisis, sold chancery property to cover $85 million in settlements last year, and this year will close 67 churches and recast 16 others as new parishes or worship sites without a full-time priest.
Archbishop Sean O'Malley has said the crisis and the reconfiguration plan are "in no way" related. He cites demographic shifts, the priest shortage and aging, crumbling buildings too costly to keep up.
Fargo, N.D., which spent $821,000 on the abuse crisis, will close 23 parishes, but it's because the diocese is short more than 50 priests for its 158 parishes, some with fewer than a dozen families attending Mass.
Superstition and ignorance just don't sell like they used to...
