Is Obama gaming us?

[Trajan]

deserves repeating

Why? Because you cannot recognize that there is no tax cut either?good grief dude.

it's a tax cut "extension". That makes it even more of an existing tax cut.

The semantic games bore me.

then stop playing them. only one group/sect has anything to lose here, do you understand that? Only one group/sect whomever has something to gain......

 

[william the wie]

let's do a decision tree:

If the GOP let's the tax cuts expire because their compromise cannot make it through the Senate the Ds own any downturn in the coming two years?

If it does make it through the senate and gets signed into law then the D senate and president two-thirds own any and all bad effects?

If it gets through the lameduck session in any form all bad effects are owned by the Ds?

Does everyone know that the five year option ARMS are coming due? (1-2 years are required for foreclosure with mostly two year processes for the states with the biggest booms so the 2004 vintage mostly gets uncorked next year.) Option ARMs let the homeowner run up some seriously negative equity and makes the plain vanilla 2 year reset sub-primes look shockingly sane. 2011 is going to be just a tad rough with writedowns on mortgages and putbacks by tranche holders in the single digit Trillions if we are lucky. If we are not lucky the strategic foreclosure tsunami will hit.

The effect on property tax revenues in most states will be drastic. So the weighted average of outcomes where the GOP get blamed is 1/9. Obama gamed Obama.

 

[MikeK]

[...]Warning though...it's strong language. Guess it has to be though when the left starts eating their own.

Those Democrats in open rebellion against Obama's concession aren't "eating their own." They are doing what they think is right, which is something the Republicans who march in lock-step should do for a change.

ironically, I see it almost the exact opposite.

Seems many of the dems are sticking to their convictions and NOT doing what is right.

Unless you truly believe that Pelosi and the other dems see it as "right" to allow the lower and middle classes to suffer a loss of the tax breaks?

I truly believe that when one decides to fight rather than submit one should expect to be bruised, or worse.

If the underclass suffers it will be at the hands of the Republicans, not the Democrats, and you should get that straight in your mind. And if the Republicans get their way by extending the tax cut for the super-rich any benefit to the underclass will be temporary and relatively minor. The real screwing will happen down the line in the form of hundreds of billions of dollars more debt to be paid because of the tax shortfall.

If the tax cuts expire I will be hurt as much as anyone else in the underclass but I don't expect to walk away from a fight without shedding some blood. And my feeling is, win or lose, it's about time we stood up to the Republicans. I hope this will become a habit for the Democrats.

 

[loosecannon]

Why? Because you cannot recognize that there is no tax cut either?good grief dude.

The semantic games bore me.

then stop playing them. only one group/sect has anything to lose here, do you understand that? Only one group/sect whomever has something to gain......

sorry, but imo the semantic game is being played by those who resist acknowledging that the tax cuts are tax cuts, and that letting them expire isn't the same as raising taxes.

If you extend the existing cuts before they were legislated to expire then all you are doing is extending a cut that was about to expire. It's that simple.

 

[loosecannon]

Those Democrats in open rebellion against Obama's concession aren't "eating their own." They are doing what they think is right, which is something the Republicans who march in lock-step should do for a change.

ironically, I see it almost the exact opposite.

Seems many of the dems are sticking to their convictions and NOT doing what is right.

Unless you truly believe that Pelosi and the other dems see it as "right" to allow the lower and middle classes to suffer a loss of the tax breaks?

I truly believe that when one decides to fight rather than submit one should expect to be bruised, or worse.

If the underclass suffers it will be at the hands of the Republicans, not the Democrats, and you should get that straight in your mind. And if the Republicans get their way by extending the tax cut for the super-rich any benefit to the underclass will be temporary and relatively minor. The real screwing will happen down the line in the form of hundreds of billions of dollars more debt to be paid because of the tax shortfall.

If the tax cuts expire I will be hurt as much as anyone else in the underclass but I don't expect to walk away from a fight without shedding some blood. And my feeling is, win or lose, it's about time we stood up to the Republicans. I hope this will become a habit for the Democrats.

You brought up a good point. These cuts will have to be directly paid for by taxpayers. Later. It's another stimulus, only this time the GOP likes the stimulus.

 

[Trajan]

then stop playing them. only one group/sect has anything to lose here, do you understand that? Only one group/sect whomever has something to gain......

sorry, but imo the semantic game is being played by those who resist acknowledging that the tax cuts are tax cuts, and that letting them expire isn't the same as raising taxes.

If you extend the existing cuts before they were legislated to expire then all you are doing is extending a cut that was about to expire. It's that simple.

I see so you'll use legislative process to prop your argument then, turn around and ignore history to make your semantic posture look correct.

something that has not happened, is not reality, you can try and make it so, but, well good luck with that.

 

[loosecannon]

It was already legislated to expire with the very same action in which it was legislated to begin.

Spin it however it works for you Trajan, but the expiring tax breaks are not a tax increase.

No action whatsoever is required to allow the cuts to expire, it's a done deal.

Action is required to essentially legislate a new tax cut.

 

[boedicca]

What complete an utter nonsense.

Higher tax rates next year by whatever legislative slight of hand are an INCREASE.

Only an Orwellian Moonbat would claim otherwise.

 

[miller]

Since the Republicans can make a better deal in January why would they make a worse deal now?

Run up the debt as fast as possible and bust America. see:
Screwed Again: GO OBAMA ADD $1trillion DEBT

 

[loosecannon]

What complete an utter nonsense.

Higher tax rates next year by whatever legislative slight of hand are an INCREASE.

Only an Orwellian Moonbat would claim otherwise.

like you said nearly everything you post is complete and utter nonsense. You are a class war whore that way.

I might add that just because your taxes increase next year does not in any way mean that congress legislated a tax increase. If you had more income, for example, your taxes would increase. And if an existing tax cut expired your taxes would increase.

See how that works, class war whore?

 

[loosecannon]

Since the Republicans can make a better deal in January why would they make a worse deal now?

so they can blame the democrats for it's results?

Or is it because the GOP is a class war whore?

 

[william the wie]

Since the Republicans can make a better deal in January why would they make a worse deal now?

Run up the debt as fast as possible and bust America. see:
Screwed Again: GO OBAMA ADD $1trillion DEBT

How can they make a better deal for the goal of sticking it to the Dems?

 

[miller]

Obama is a clueless moron. Americans don't want to pay their debts and one day soon the Treasury bond market will crash and the lights will go out. The people getting foreclosed out of their homes took crazy loans. The $1trillion tax cut crap is a crazy loan.

Screwed Again: GO OBAMA ADD $1trillion DEBT