Is it moral for God to punish us?

[GreatestIam]

Is it moral for God to punish us?

Is it moral for an all-knowing and all-powerful God to set in motion a history that he designs and then condemns others for?

We live in a history that God has set up and is fully responsible for. God, punishing man, who can do nothing but follow God’s plan and the nature God has put in us, is having innocent people suffer for the wrongs God himself has pre-destined and which cannot be altered.

For example.

God chose to have Jesus sacrificed. God, in his planning book would also have decided who would kill Jesus. There would be no way for that man to not kill Jesus or God’s plan would fall off the rails and in this case, we would not have a messiah or scapegoat to ride into heaven.

Some will say we have free will but as shown in the example above, Jesus’ killer could not refrain from killing Jesus without derailing God’s plan. Further, to pre-destine any one action or condition within a history changes all other conditions and pre-destines all conditions within the plan. Think the butterfly effect.

Having said the above and having shown that we have no free will if anything is pre-destined, I think it would be quite immoral for God to judge or punish us for being and doing exactly what he pre-ordained for us in his plan. We have no choice and to punish us is immoral.

Do you agree?

If not, why not?

Regards
DL

Greatestiam,
I hate to be the bearer of bad news. But there is no such thing as god.

Bad news? What bad news?

Regards
DL

 

[freemind]

greatestiam,
I told you. That there is no god.

 

[GreatestIam]

greatestiam,
I told you. That there is no god.

Yes. Repetition is not required.

Regards
DL

 

[Delta4Embassy]

Is it moral for God to punish us?

Is it moral for an all-knowing and all-powerful God to set in motion a history that he designs and then condemns others for?

We live in a history that God has set up and is fully responsible for. God, punishing man, who can do nothing but follow God’s plan and the nature God has put in us, is having innocent people suffer for the wrongs God himself has pre-destined and which cannot be altered.

For example.

God chose to have Jesus sacrificed. God, in his planning book would also have decided who would kill Jesus. There would be no way for that man to not kill Jesus or God’s plan would fall off the rails and in this case, we would not have a messiah or scapegoat to ride into heaven.

Some will say we have free will but as shown in the example above, Jesus’ killer could not refrain from killing Jesus without derailing God’s plan. Further, to pre-destine any one action or condition within a history changes all other conditions and pre-destines all conditions within the plan. Think the butterfly effect.

Having said the above and having shown that we have no free will if anything is pre-destined, I think it would be quite immoral for God to judge or punish us for being and doing exactly what he pre-ordained for us in his plan. We have no choice and to punish us is immoral.

Do you agree?

If not, why not?

Regards
DL

This question resulted in a long-time rabbi friend not talking to me for over a year.

Mine was about the Garden and punishing Adam and Eve for disobediance where I reasoned:

'why create a tree of knowledge of good and evil only to forbid people in the garden eating it? Isn't God just punishing them for something he forsaw occuring in the first place? In modern parlance that'd be akin to entrapment. You can't obtain a search warrant for someone on the ground they possess contraband if you just sold the contraband to them. Conversely, shouldn't be punishing your creations for disobeying you eating from the tree you put in their home, to say nothing of the serpent you also put in their home. And since the serpent was right and God lied about dying if they eat from it it just demonstrates pretty conclusively God was behaving very irrationally from the beginning.'

 

[Mudda]

Disagree. God sets the standards so only god can say what he/she does is immoral.

What standards did your invisible white guy set?

 

[Asclepias]

Disagree. God sets the standards so only god can say what he/she does is immoral.

What standards did your invisible white guy set?

I dont own any white guys visible or invisible. If you are looking for a blow up doll you are in the wrong thread.

 

[PostmodernProph]

Some will say we have free will but as shown in the example above, Jesus’ killer could not refrain from killing Jesus without derailing God’s plan.

false conclusion....God having knowledge and making use of our actions is not a compelling of our actions.......God's knowledge does not cause our act......our action causes his knowledge......

 

[PostmodernProph]

That is what happens when you we see that God's plan is to destroy the vast majority of us while only saving the few.

in the early days of computing we used to say garbage in, garbage out.....if you are starting with the assumption God's plan is to destroy the vast majority of us, you can't expect to come to any correct conclusions.....

 

[Mudda]

Disagree. God sets the standards so only god can say what he/she does is immoral.

What standards did your invisible white guy set?

I dont own any white guys visible or invisible. If you are looking for a blow up doll you are in the wrong thread.

So what moral standards did your god set?

 

[PostmodernProph]

What's this "we" shit? I was never asked.

oh....we can solve that right now.....will you believe in the existence of God and of your own free will, choose to obey him for eternity?

 

[Mudda]

That is what happens when you we see that God's plan is to destroy the vast majority of us while only saving the few.

in the early days of computing we used to say garbage in, garbage out.....if you are starting with the assumption God's plan is to destroy the vast majority of us, you can't expect to come to any correct conclusions.....

God kills everyone in the end.

 

[PostmodernProph]

Yet most are on the wide road to hell.

hint - stop and get off......

 

[PostmodernProph]

]
God kills everyone in the end.

foolish.....God kills no one.....

 

[Mudda]

]
God kills everyone in the end.

foolish.....God kills no one.....

And he subjects them to a long painful death quite often at that.

 

[PostmodernProph]

They became as Gods in the knowing of good and evil. So have I.

so you bought Satan's argument that the only difference between you and God was knowledge of good and evil?.......now that you know evil do you still think he was right or do you just want to fool us like Satan did with you?......

 

[Mudda]

God created pedophiles, he has no morals.

 

[PostmodernProph]

]
God kills everyone in the end.

foolish.....God kills no one.....

And he subjects them to a long painful death quite often at that.

more foolishness.....

 

[PostmodernProph]

God created pedophiles, he has no morals.

no.....he didn't......

 

[Mudda]

God created pedophiles, he has no morals.

no.....he didn't......

God created everything, including pedophiles. Or is the bible wrong?

 

[PostmodernProph]

Disagree. God sets the standards so only god can say what he/she does is immoral.

What standards did your invisible white guy set?

I dont own any white guys visible or invisible. If you are looking for a blow up doll you are in the wrong thread.

So what moral standards did your god set?

the moral standards of Christianity are outlined in the Ten Commandments.....