Is it moral for God to punish us?

[GreatestIam]

Is it moral for God to punish us?

Is it moral for an all-knowing and all-powerful God to set in motion a history that he designs and then condemns others for?

We live in a history that God has set up and is fully responsible for. God, punishing man, who can do nothing but follow God’s plan and the nature God has put in us, is having innocent people suffer for the wrongs God himself has pre-destined and which cannot be altered.

For example.

God chose to have Jesus sacrificed. God, in his planning book would also have decided who would kill Jesus. There would be no way for that man to not kill Jesus or God’s plan would fall off the rails and in this case, we would not have a messiah or scapegoat to ride into heaven.

Some will say we have free will but as shown in the example above, Jesus’ killer could not refrain from killing Jesus without derailing God’s plan. Further, to pre-destine any one action or condition within a history changes all other conditions and pre-destines all conditions within the plan. Think the butterfly effect.

Having said the above and having shown that we have no free will if anything is pre-destined, I think it would be quite immoral for God to judge or punish us for being and doing exactly what he pre-ordained for us in his plan. We have no choice and to punish us is immoral.

Do you agree?

If not, why not?

Regards
DL

 

[Asclepias]

Disagree. God sets the standards so only god can say what he/she does is immoral.

 

[Moonglow]

Is it wrong to punish yourself before God gets around to it?

 

[Meriweather]

Do you agree?

If not, why not?

People who start with the premise that God's plan is to punish, is going to end with a conclusion that is not even on the same page as those who begin with the premise that God loves us and has a plan.

 

[aris2chat]

Is it moral for God to punish us?

Is it moral for an all-knowing and all-powerful God to set in motion a history that he designs and then condemns others for?

We live in a history that God has set up and is fully responsible for. God, punishing man, who can do nothing but follow God’s plan and the nature God has put in us, is having innocent people suffer for the wrongs God himself has pre-destined and which cannot be altered.

For example.

God chose to have Jesus sacrificed. God, in his planning book would also have decided who would kill Jesus. There would be no way for that man to not kill Jesus or God’s plan would fall off the rails and in this case, we would not have a messiah or scapegoat to ride into heaven.

Some will say we have free will but as shown in the example above, Jesus’ killer could not refrain from killing Jesus without derailing God’s plan. Further, to pre-destine any one action or condition within a history changes all other conditions and pre-destines all conditions within the plan. Think the butterfly effect.

Having said the above and having shown that we have no free will if anything is pre-destined, I think it would be quite immoral for God to judge or punish us for being and doing exactly what he pre-ordained for us in his plan. We have no choice and to punish us is immoral.

Do you agree?

If not, why not?

Regards
DL

If a god knows human nature before hand what our actions will be and does not take action to prevent, it has not right to punish after the fact.

 

[IsaacNewton]

Is it moral for God to punish us?

Is it moral for an all-knowing and all-powerful God to set in motion a history that he designs and then condemns others for?

We live in a history that God has set up and is fully responsible for. God, punishing man, who can do nothing but follow God’s plan and the nature God has put in us, is having innocent people suffer for the wrongs God himself has pre-destined and which cannot be altered.

For example.

God chose to have Jesus sacrificed. God, in his planning book would also have decided who would kill Jesus. There would be no way for that man to not kill Jesus or God’s plan would fall off the rails and in this case, we would not have a messiah or scapegoat to ride into heaven.

Some will say we have free will but as shown in the example above, Jesus’ killer could not refrain from killing Jesus without derailing God’s plan. Further, to pre-destine any one action or condition within a history changes all other conditions and pre-destines all conditions within the plan. Think the butterfly effect.

Having said the above and having shown that we have no free will if anything is pre-destined, I think it would be quite immoral for God to judge or punish us for being and doing exactly what he pre-ordained for us in his plan. We have no choice and to punish us is immoral.

Do you agree?

If not, why not?

Regards
DL

"A god that creates you sick and then commands you to get well or be tortured forever" "Who demands utter obedience under penalty of eternal pain and suffering, but commands you to love him". - Christopher Hitchens -

 

[Bonzi]

Is it wrong to punish yourself before God gets around to it?

God is sovereign. Can't be done.

 

[Bonzi]

God had a perfect plan for us.
We rejected it.

 

[GreatestIam]

Disagree. God sets the standards so only god can say what he/she does is immoral.

You cannot judge what is immoral! Wow.

But you have chosen to believe God to be moral which contradicts what you said.

Regards
DL

 

[GreatestIam]

Is it wrong to punish yourself before God gets around to it?

Answer my question and I will be pleased to reciprocate.

Regards
DL

 

[GreatestIam]

Do you agree?

If not, why not?

People who start with the premise that God's plan is to punish, is going to end with a conclusion that is not even on the same page as those who begin with the premise that God loves us and has a plan.

That is what happens when you we see that God's plan is to destroy the vast majority of us while only saving the few.

And you respect that kind of a prick do you?

Regards
DL

 

[GreatestIam]

Is it moral for God to punish us?

Is it moral for an all-knowing and all-powerful God to set in motion a history that he designs and then condemns others for?

We live in a history that God has set up and is fully responsible for. God, punishing man, who can do nothing but follow God’s plan and the nature God has put in us, is having innocent people suffer for the wrongs God himself has pre-destined and which cannot be altered.

For example.

God chose to have Jesus sacrificed. God, in his planning book would also have decided who would kill Jesus. There would be no way for that man to not kill Jesus or God’s plan would fall off the rails and in this case, we would not have a messiah or scapegoat to ride into heaven.

Some will say we have free will but as shown in the example above, Jesus’ killer could not refrain from killing Jesus without derailing God’s plan. Further, to pre-destine any one action or condition within a history changes all other conditions and pre-destines all conditions within the plan. Think the butterfly effect.

Having said the above and having shown that we have no free will if anything is pre-destined, I think it would be quite immoral for God to judge or punish us for being and doing exactly what he pre-ordained for us in his plan. We have no choice and to punish us is immoral.

Do you agree?

If not, why not?

Regards
DL

If a god knows human nature before hand what our actions will be and does not take action to prevent, it has not right to punish after the fact.

He is said to create our natures. That would mean that he would have no right or claim to being superior in judgements than we are.

Seems we agree.

Regards
DL

 

[GreatestIam]

Is it wrong to punish yourself before God gets around to it?

God is sovereign. Can't be done.

Sovereign?

Did he not give Satan dominion over us?

Regards
DL

 

[GreatestIam]

God had a perfect plan for us.
We rejected it.

We rejected slavery.

look at what he did to A & E when they did their free will instead of God's will.

Freedom is good. Stop wanting to be a slave.

Regards
DL

 

[Bonzi]

God had a perfect plan for us.
We rejected it.

We rejected slavery.

look at what he did to A & E when they did their free will instead of God's will.

Freedom is good. Stop wanting to be a slave.

Regards
DL

You will always hold a special place for me on USBM. I believe you are one of the first I talked to on here... we'll never agree, but I appreciate your well thought out comments and posts....

 

[Meriweather]

That is what happens when you we see that God's plan is to destroy the vast majority of us while only saving the few.

Ah, but God's plan is not about destruction. God loves all of us.

 

[Bonzi]

God had a perfect plan for us.
We rejected it.

We rejected slavery.

look at what he did to A & E when they did their free will instead of God's will.

Freedom is good. Stop wanting to be a slave.

Regards
DL

The irony is freedom IS following God.
Otherwise, we are slaves to our own desires which are bad for us.

 

[Bonzi]

Is it wrong to punish yourself before God gets around to it?

God is sovereign. Can't be done.

Sovereign?

Did he not give Satan dominion over us?

Regards
DL

Are you questioning God?
What makes you think you are smarter than He is?

 

[Nosmo King]

Just for clarification, precisely how does God punish us? And for which infractions are we punished?

Are the suggestions about hurricanes disrupting tourist season in Florida being a result of Disney's stance on homosexual employees such an example? Does God send down His wrath in the form of natural disasters, or is it more subtle and personal as was the case with Job?

Where can we examine the wrath of God as punishment?

 

[aris2chat]

God has no problem destroying mankind or punishing men but he lets his creation, angel satan, create havoc but won't destroy or remove him from the lives of humans?

Just think, we might not be as sinful if satan had been destroyed when he first disobeyed.....in theory.

Satan was supposed to bow down to man not lead him into temptation or torment him.

According to the bible, we have been wiped out by floods, angels of death, disease, famines, war, and massacres, but satan is allowed to play games with mankind and steal our souls?

God should have foreseen all that as well before creating satan or giving him the position as advocate.
All seeing, he should have just never made that angel, or those that followed him. We might still be living in a garden.

If you believe in a god to begin with.

God goofed. No so all powerful or all knowing as the myths would make it to be.