Is it immoral to vote for a politician who calls Islam a religion of peace?

[skye]

Who is not a muslim?

Hussein Obama?

Rubbish!

Of course he is a Muslim!

 

[Statistikhengst]

Who is not a muslim?

Hussein Obama?

Rubbish!

Of course he is a Muslim!

No, he is not.

Thank you for playing!

 

[skye]

Who is not a muslim?

Hussein Obama?

Rubbish!

Of course he is a Muslim!

No, he is not.

Thank you for playing!

Yes he is!

You are welcome.

 

[NYcarbineer]

There was a time when the Catholic church killed people for heresy, blasphemy, and,

on a larger scale, just for not being Catholic.

Would the world be a better place if back then the forces opposed to Catholicism had managed to eradicate that religion?

 

[ABikerSailor]

I think it's immoral to vote for a politician without knowing what their policies are, which is why the Republicans got a majority this time around.

We still have yet to hear what the Republican policies are regarding how this country is going to be run.

 

[deltex1]

Bush concentrated on killing the evil doers. Obabble wants to kiss their ass. Big difference.

 

[ABikerSailor]

Bush concentrated on killing the evil doers. Obabble wants to kiss their ass. Big difference.

Really? Jr. concentrated on trying to fix the mistakes made by his father when he originally let Saddam go. Saddam had ZERO to do with the attacks on 9/11, and yet, only a year and a half after the attacks on the WTC, Jr. said that he was no longer concerned with Bin Laden, who remained free for the remainder of Jr.'s term.

Obama was the one who has been concentrating on killing the bad guys.

 

[NYcarbineer]

Bush concentrated on killing the evil doers. Obabble wants to kiss their ass. Big difference.

Far fewer Americans are dying for no good reason. That's the difference.

 

[JoeB131]

Your point is face value one at best. I've read plenty of Quran passages. These so-called radicals are living what their book tells them to do. And this is why such a high percent of Muslims actually support all the suicide bombing and view Westerners as inherent enemies. The Quran is clear that the infidels (all non-muslims) are deserving of dieing at the hands of their so-called great allah. That is not a religion of peace, dude.

They consider westerners to be enemies because we keep attacking them.

You want to whine about 9/11, but the fact is, we've killed a hundred times more than that between our two wars in Iraq.

But it's not like you're marching down to a recruiting station to sign up.

 

[Political Junky]

Didn't Bush call Islam a religion of peace?

 

[JoeB131]

Much as you'd like to chalk this up to relgious bigotry, that's just a reach. A dude writes a murder manual, I'm not going to support it. SImple as that. I don't have go to church to have that moral stance.

Well, if you did go to church, you'd realize that the Bible is more of a Murder Manual than the Koran is.

"Happy is he who dashes thy little ones' heads against the Stones"- Psalm 137:9.

BTW, we are dealing with blood thirsty hoards. What do you think ISIS is?

ISIS is a group of thugs that managed to gain power because Bush destabilized a country that never attacked us over weapons that didn't exist.

 

[deltex1]

You LIBTARDS have to get your stories straight.

 

[JoeB131]

You LIBTARDS have to get your stories straight.

No, you conservatives have to give us a compelling reason why we need to bankrupt ourselves trying to play hall monitor in that part of the world.

Because you want cheap Gas for your SUV and because you need Israel so Jesus can come back aren't compelling reasons.

 

[Where_r_my_Keys]

This thread inspired by the insight of former GBII adviser Elliot Abrams and the audacious rhetoric of Mr. Mohamad Mukadam.

Abrams states:

What is authentic Islam? Is ISIS an authentic form of Islam, or is it not? I think it's very important that the United States government shut-up about that question...

It used to annoy me enormously when President [George W.] Bush, for whom I was working, would say, 'Islam is a religion of peace...

For American government officials to be telling Muslims, 'I know real Islam' ... is ridiculous. It would be an outrage about Judaism and Christianity as well. ... For government officials who are 99 percent Christians to be trying to find what is authentic in Islam seems to me to be a fool's errand...

The average American thinks this (that Islam is a religion of peace) is crap...

The only people doing the beheadings are Muslims, so don't tell me it's all wonderful...

Is there something in Islam that has led some Muslims to behave in a way we consider to be terrible? And what's the debate within Islam?... That's a real description of a real problem... saying 'Islam is a religion of peace' isn't [realistic].

When asked about if Muslims kill apostates, this was Mr. Mohamad Mukadam's response:

"If it's an Islamic country, the Sharia is very clear. Apostasy is dealt with the death penalty."

Knowing that Islam is a great evil in this world, is it thusly immoral to vote for a politician who calls Islam a religion of peace?

Source: Should Presidents Call Islam a Religion of Peace Two George W. Bush Officials Debate

Source: Mr. Mohamad Mukadam gives his take on death to apostates.

And for the sake of further clarity, George W Bush and Obama have both called Islam a religion of peace; and neither of them have reversed their positions on the matter.

Islam has always been a lot of things... but NEVER has Islam been a religion, or peaceful. Islam is a political organism.

Evil is multifaceted... it has a way to sucker the humanist, which is the Ideological Left and it has a way to sucker the Theists, which is Islam.

 

[hazlnut]

This thread inspired by the insight of former GBII adviser Elliot Abrams and the audacious rhetoric of Mr. Mohamad Mukadam.

Abrams states:

What is authentic Islam? Is ISIS an authentic form of Islam, or is it not? I think it's very important that the United States government shut-up about that question...

It used to annoy me enormously when President [George W.] Bush, for whom I was working, would say, 'Islam is a religion of peace...

For American government officials to be telling Muslims, 'I know real Islam' ... is ridiculous. It would be an outrage about Judaism and Christianity as well. ... For government officials who are 99 percent Christians to be trying to find what is authentic in Islam seems to me to be a fool's errand...

The average American thinks this (that Islam is a religion of peace) is crap...

The only people doing the beheadings are Muslims, so don't tell me it's all wonderful...

Is there something in Islam that has led some Muslims to behave in a way we consider to be terrible? And what's the debate within Islam?... That's a real description of a real problem... saying 'Islam is a religion of peace' isn't [realistic].

When asked about if Muslims kill apostates, this was Mr. Mohamad Mukadam's response:

"If it's an Islamic country, the Sharia is very clear. Apostasy is dealt with the death penalty."

Knowing that Islam is a great evil in this world, is it thusly immoral to vote for a politician who calls Islam a religion of peace?

Source: Should Presidents Call Islam a Religion of Peace Two George W. Bush Officials Debate

Source: Mr. Mohamad Mukadam gives his take on death to apostates.

And for the sake of further clarity, George W Bush and Obama have both called Islam a religion of peace; and neither of them have reversed their positions on the matter.

Another dopey race-baiting thread.

Go away bigot.

 

[Where_r_my_Keys]

You LIBTARDS have to get your stories straight.

No, you conservatives have to give us a compelling reason why we need to bankrupt ourselves trying to play hall monitor in that part of the world.

Because you want cheap Gas for your SUV and because you need Israel so Jesus can come back aren't compelling reasons.

LOL! "Hearts and Minds... PURELY a Progressive notion.

Had Americans been consulted on the US GWOT... we would have told Turkey to shove their Airspace refusal up their ass... and dared them to have something in the air when we came over... allowing the pincer which would have provided for the defeat of Iraqi military forces inside 96 hours. During which we would have eviscerated that military leaving virtually NONE alive to 'return to the home'. We would have gone through Iraq like Sherman and when we rounded up Saddam, shot his fat ass ON SITE. Then we would have left Iraq littered with MILLIONS of leaflets which informed them to choose their next government wisely, because if we have to return we would not be so nice about it. Come and Gone in 90 days...

Afganistan would have remained a straight up S.O. Campaign... inserting to take down key elements of the enemy. Extract, turn out the lights and let the roaches come out of the walls... then hit 'em again, with INTENSE air cover, the Wart Hogs so thick, it looks like a solar eclipse.

And all 'detainees' would be debriefed using the absolute LATEST in 'discomfort' techniques... fed on the bones of the Leftists caught so much as THINKING about protesting.

 

[Where_r_my_Keys]

Go away bigot.

WINNER WINNER CHICKEN DINNER!

What's the best way to spot a bigot?

.

.

.

The unsolicited use the word: 'Bigot'!

 

[Vigilante]

Damn, another question that is SO HARD to answer.....

 

[JFK_USA]

Yes I know, ISIS, Boko Haram, Al quada etc. are evil jihadi psychopaths who want to take over the world and install sharia law everywhere but they're still a small minority of all muslim believers no matter what the fearmongering MSM tells you.

Your point is face value one at best. I've read plenty of Quran passages. These so-called radicals are living what their book tells them to do. And this is why such a high percent of Muslims actually support all the suicide bombing and view Westerners as inherent enemies. The Quran is clear that the infidels (all non-muslims) are deserving of dieing at the hands of their so-called great allah. That is not a religion of peace, dude.

Also, the mainstream media is very sympathetic to Muslims. Don't give me that crap.

Besides that, you think it's more moral to vote for politicians who think it's ok to "torture some folk", bomb wedding parties and liberate oil fields, eh.. people with shock & awe all over the world?

This is a tangent; and I haven't made these points in this thread.

There are plenty of passages in the bible that stoning is okay and that if a man rapes a young girl, he must pay the father money and then force the girl to marry him.

You can find evil shit in both books if you are looking for it and want to express it as that religion is bad and everyone who follows it is as well. But because this country is overwhelmingly Christian and has no understanding of Islam, they think they are evil despite having Muslims in prominent positions in society today including the U.S. Congress.

 

[TheGreatGatsby]

The OP makes a good, solid argument. I am actually very glad that TheGreatGatsby brought this up. Don't faint, Gatsby, sometimes we agree on stuff and you don't even know it.

The real "crux" (let's see who gets that one...) of this issue is how the word "Salaam" (usually translated from Arabic to English to mean "peace") is actually defined in Islam. I believe that many westerners assume quite erroneously that the word "peace" has the same meaning across the world. And that the word has no strings attached to it.

But in the Kuran, Salaam also means to 'subject one-self to Allah' - according to the dictates of Islam, of course, since Islam claims to be the one truth faith and all others are therefore false. In fact, a second dictionary definiton of "Salaam", even published in the western world is:

a very low bow or obeisance, especially with the palm of the right hand placed on the forehead.

So, sure, the word means "peace", but with strings attached. It means "peace" as long as one subjugates himself to "Allah" - of course, according to the dictates of Islam. Not very peaceful, if you are a non-muslim, perhaps...

It should also be noted that the word Salaam (Salaami) can also mean safety or security from blemishes or defects, because one of the descriptors for G-d in Arabic is "As-Salaam" , which means: ‘May you not be void of goodness and blessing, and may you be safe from detestable and harmful things.' Notice that the word "peace" is no where in there. Of course, some could say that that definition fullfills exactly their personal definition of peace.

Here an islamic source to back that up:

The Meaning of Salaat and Salaam on the Prophet Shaikh 8216 Abdul-Muhsin Hamad Al- 8216 Abbaad

So, the word "Salaam" can mean a lot of things. Just as the Arabic word for "innocents" (برئ ) - "vuriah" - has a number of meanings and also comes with strings attached. And yes, I mean "innocents" ("innocent", plural) and not "innocence".

Here is a book about this topic, from the Christian perspective, I believe:

WORLD Is Islam a religion of peace Darrow Miller Oct. 25 2014

So, no, I don't think it's immoral to vote for a politician who goes around saying that Islam is a religion of Peace, because he is either ignorant and has no idea of the different meanings of the actual word for "peace", of he knows EXACTLY what it means and is trying to get a point across.

It's how we respond as a unified, freedom-loving people to Islamic terrorism that counts much more to me than the words, probably the campaign trail words, of a politician.

-Stat

I would say this one issue demonstrates how Obama and Bush are cut from the same fabric.
Okay, I thanked your post for the perspective. But I'll say I'm always weary of academic this is what the word meant centuries ago type stuff. All too often, context gets to stripped. I've seen academia make false claims about Bible meanings with regularity for instance. Granted, I do believe that what you say may true.

However, you're trying to apply their meaning of peace with our meaning of peace; and that's where your logic falls apart. Our politicians aren't calling Islam a religion of peace based upon technical caveats. They are making a case that the religion itself is not a problem and even a great value; and that is clearly false.

Actually, it has as much to do with the present as the past. Words have meaning and not understanding their meaning can lead to catastrophe.

Islam claims that "Salaam" means "peace" - only, it defines very differently than westerners would.

And the two definitions are not reconcilable in any culture that values democracy.

"Peace" with a knive around your neck is not "peace".

I said that our politicians who say it either say it out of ignorance or perhaps because they know EXACTLY what the deal is. There are some, prolly, who say it just to be PC. And that is a shame.

I think you and I agree more on this than you realize.

Which type of politician in this regard is Obama? Does he say Islam is a religion of peace out of ignorance or does he know Exactly what the deal is?

I don't know. But either way, on this point, he is wrong. Since he is not a Muslim, I doubt he would like the other definition of SALAAM.

Your point is face value one at best. I've read plenty of Quran passages. These so-called radicals are living what their book tells them to do. And this is why such a high percent of Muslims actually support all the suicide bombing and view Westerners as inherent enemies. The Quran is clear that the infidels (all non-muslims) are deserving of dieing at the hands of their so-called great allah. That is not a religion of peace, dude.

They consider westerners to be enemies because we keep attacking them.

You want to whine about 9/11, but the fact is, we've killed a hundred times more than that between our two wars in Iraq.

But it's not like you're marching down to a recruiting station to sign up.

Wrong. They consider infidels (non muslims) to be the enemy outright. The Quran is quite explicit about it. It's funny how you like to spout Bible passages and then pretend that the Quran doesn't say what it says. Well, not funny; it's standard hypocrisy from you.