Is homosexuality a choice, a mental illness or something simply inherent?

[Quantum Windbag]

The APA lists no known causes for homosexual, thoughthere are some hypotheses. What do you think and why?

The APA is not a scientific organization, despite their claims, why do you use them as a source in the first place.

Studies on monozygotic twins have shown a correlation in sexual preference, but the fact that it is not 100% conclusively proves that it is not genetic. Since we know it is not genetic, and no actual evidence exists to prove that we are controlled by evil aliens from Planet X, I chose to believe that it is a choice. The fact that there are actually people out there who have stated that they have made that choice is also evidence that supports my opinion. The people that reject that we make that choice are, essentially, calling everyone who states they made a choice liars based on nothing other than their own prejudices.

They are the ones that have to live with their bigotry, I prefer to believe people unless the evidence contradicts them.

So other than the word of a few people what evidence contradicts the "born that way" crowd?
The fact that there are actually people out there who have stated that they were born that way" is also evidence that goes against your opinion. Anecdotal evidence isn't very strong.

And just because it isn't genetic doesn't mean you aren't born that way. Dexterity isn't genetic.

What evidence do you have to back up your claims about the APA?

Do you have some reason to think the people that say they made a choice are lying? Delusional? Something else? Maybe you think it is a coordinated conspiracy.

The problem in rejecting anecdotal evidence is that you still have to deal with the fact that people actually believe what they are saying. It might not be scientific, but I don't base my opinion in anecdotal evidence alone. I base it on the actual scientific evidence that free will exists, and that there are no genetic, or any other type of marker, including different brain development, of homosexuality that doesn't also occur in the heterosexual population. That, in my opinion, places the burden on the people who insist that we do not have a choice.

By the way, you are right that dexterity isn't genetic, it is a learned behavior. The proof of that is that, if you lose your dominant hand, even temporarily, you can learn to use the other just as well.

As for the APA, you should read this.

Two Who Resigned From DSM-5 Explain Why | Psychology Today

If they reject science in their most important publication, how can you claim that the organization is scientific?

 

[Howey]

I want to commend [MENTION=49586]Inevitable[/MENTION] for being so respectful and civil throughout this thread and in other threads. While others have been nasty and rude to Inevitable, he has chosen to take the high road.

Good for you.

I very much appreciate that.

I have no need to be disrespectful or anything but civil while questioning others beliefs.

I really appreciate you noticing.

You really are an intelligent and welcome voice on this forum.


Since me, of course.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

The APA lists no known causes for homosexual, thoughthere are some hypotheses. What do you think and why?

Of course Homosexuality isn't a choice anymore than being Heterosexual is a choice. One is born of those sexual orientations as many health and scientific professionals have brought out and agreed on time and time and again. There are reported differences between Straight men and Gay men having to do with their Hypothalamus gland. Other reports also explain things farther in this regard. Therefore, it is simply inherent.

Study finds genes on X chromosome linked to male homosexuality

Former Love In Action Director John Smid: Homosexuality Is Not a Choice and Can?t Be Changed | Truth Wins Out

Geneticist Dean Hamer Testifies In Hawai?i On The Biological Origins Of Homosexuality | Truth Wins Out

And there is also another very good discussion on this site started by Howey entitled "Can Homophobia Be Cured?" Here!

Posting debunked studies is a sure sign of ignorance.

There is no gay gene, unless, of course, you think psychologists know more about biology than actual biologists.

Homosexuality as a Consequence of Epigenetically Canalized Sexual Development

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Of course Homosexuality isn't a choice anymore than being Heterosexual is a choice. One is born of those sexual orientations as many health and scientific professionals have brought out and agreed on time and time and again. There are reported differences between Straight men and Gay men having to do with their Hypothalamus gland. Other reports also explain things farther in this regard.

Study finds genes on X chromosome linked to male homosexuality

Former Love In Action Director John Smid: Homosexuality Is Not a Choice and Can?t Be Changed | Truth Wins Out

Geneticist Dean Hamer Testifies In Hawai?i On The Biological Origins Of Homosexuality | Truth Wins Out

And there is also another very good discussion on this site started by Howey entitled "Can Homophobia Be Cured?" Here!

drunks say the same!!!ROFLMAO!!! DRUG USERS AND 500 LB FAT SLOBS SAY IT THEIR GENES!!!

Those are addictions. sexual Orientation is not.

Drunks can stop drinking, homosexuals can't stop being attracted to the same sex.

Yet some do, and others chose to be attracted to the same sex.

Unless, that is, you have actual evidence they are lying.

 

[GISMYS]

drunks say the same!!!ROFLMAO!!! DRUG USERS AND 500 LB FAT SLOBS SAY IT THEIR GENES!!!

Those are addictions. sexual Orientation is not.

Drunks can stop drinking, homosexuals can't stop being attracted to the same sex.

Yet some do, and others chose to be attracted to the same sex.

Unless, that is, you have actual evidence they are lying.

PURE BS. SEXUAL PERVERSION IS DEMON INSPIRED CHOICE!!! WISE up!

 

[Inevitable]

Do you have some reason to think the people that say they made a choice are lying? Delusional? Something else? Maybe you think it is a coordinated conspiracy.

This is a strawman fallacy, I never once said any of the sortout even suggested it. Also: Do you have some reason to think the people that say they were born that way are lying? Delusional? Something else? Maybe you think it is a coordinated conspiracy.

The problem in rejecting anecdotal evidence is that you still have to deal with the fact that people actually believe what they are saying.

Another strawman fallacy. I didn't reject it I said it isn't, reliable. There is far more anecdotal evidence from people that claim they are born that way.

It might not be scientific, but I don't base my opinion in anecdotal evidence alone. I base it on the actual scientific evidence that free will exists, and that there are no genetic, or any other type of marker, including different brain development, of homosexuality that doesn't also occur in the heterosexual population.

No other types of makers? Couldn't that just mean we haven't found one yet? Prove there isn't different brain development.

That, in my opinion, places the burden on the people who insist that we do not have a choice.

You made a claim, I did not. The burden of proof is on youto support your claim as it would be on people that claim they are born that way. Shifting theburden of proof isa logical fallacy.

By the way, you are right that dexterity isn't genetic, it is a learned behavior. The proof of that is that, if you lose your dominant hand, even temporarily, you can learn to use the other just as well.

You can learn to use the other one, but who taught youto use yourstrong hand?

As for the APA, you should read this.

Two Who Resigned From DSM-5 Explain Why | Psychology Today

If they reject science in their most important publication, how can you claim that the organization is scientific?

I read the link, I sawthey were talking about personalitydisorders and they mentioned leaving something out but I am unclear what it was the claim was left out.

 

[Inevitable]

drunks say the same!!!ROFLMAO!!! DRUG USERS AND 500 LB FAT SLOBS SAY IT THEIR GENES!!!

Those are addictions. sexual Orientation is not.

Drunks can stop drinking, homosexuals can't stop being attracted to the same sex.

Yet some do, and others chose to be attracted to the same sex.

Prove it.

Unless, that is, you have actual evidence they are lying.

I never once claimed anybody was lying, enough with the strawman fallacy.

They may or may not be lying, why should I take their word as gospel truth when others claim that they are born that way? Are the ones claiming tobe born that way lying? If so prove it. If not, it's anecdotal and therefore unreliable.

 

[Inevitable]

Those are addictions. sexual Orientation is not.

Drunks can stop drinking, homosexuals can't stop being attracted to the same sex.

Yet some do, and others chose to be attracted to the same sex.

Unless, that is, you have actual evidence they are lying.

PURE BS. SEXUAL PERVERSION IS DEMON INSPIRED CHOICE!!! WISE up!

Prove it.

 

[Inevitable]

I want to commend [MENTION=49586]Inevitable[/MENTION] for being so respectful and civil throughout this thread and in other threads. While others have been nasty and rude to Inevitable, he has chosen to take the high road.

Good for you.

I very much appreciate that.

I have no need to be disrespectful or anything but civil while questioning others beliefs.

I really appreciate you noticing.

You really are an intelligent and welcome voice on this forum.


Since me, of course.

Thank you sir. I see you are hated here by a few rate belligerent posters. I take this to mean that you are as well an intelligent voice onthis forum.

 

[GISMYS]

These ARE the last days, and anyone who says they aren't is either very wishful, or ignorant of Scripture. It's not referring to religion. Our society calls abortion, homosexuality, and just about every activity frowned upon by Scripture "good". They also call those of us who take the Bible seriously "evil".

 

[Inevitable]

These ARE the last days, and anyone who says they aren't is either very wishful, or ignorant of Scripture.

You are ignorantof scripture, particularly Matthew 24:36 where Jesus said that nobody knows the day. "not the anglesinheaven or the son but only the father."

I know all you can do is insult people that disagree with you.

It's not referring to religion. Our society calls abortion, homosexuality, and just about every activity frowned upon by Scripture "good". They also call those of us who take the Bible seriously "evil".

Homosexuality isn't frowned upon by scripture, and I doubt you take the bible seriously.

 

[GISMYS]

These ARE the last days, and anyone who says they aren't is either very wishful, or ignorant of Scripture.

You are ignorantof scripture, particularly Matthew 24:36 where Jesus said that nobody knows the day. "not the anglesinheaven or the son but only the father."

I know all you can do is insult people that disagree with you.

It's not referring to religion. Our society calls abortion, homosexuality, and just about every activity frowned upon by Scripture "good". They also call those of us who take the Bible seriously "evil".

Homosexuality isn't frowned upon by scripture, and I doubt you take the bible seriously.

God's word condemns Homosexuality AS AN ABOMINATION!!!

 

[Mad_Cabbie]

BOTTOMLINE= THOSE THAT CHOOSE TO LIVE IN THE ABOMINATION OF SEXUAL PERVERSION DO SO BY THEIR OWN CHOICE. GOD'S WORD SAYS WE ARE TO RESIST EVIL AND IT WILL FLEE NOT LOVE IT!!! and you??

I kind of like abominations....

 

[Mad_Cabbie]

These ARE the last days, and anyone who says they aren't is either very wishful, or ignorant of Scripture.

You are ignorantof scripture, particularly Matthew 24:36 where Jesus said that nobody knows the day. "not the anglesinheaven or the son but only the father."

I know all you can do is insult people that disagree with you.

It's not referring to religion. Our society calls abortion, homosexuality, and just about every activity frowned upon by Scripture "good". They also call those of us who take the Bible seriously "evil".

Homosexuality isn't frowned upon by scripture, and I doubt you take the bible seriously.

God's word condemns Homosexuality AS AN ABOMINATION!!!

One of the 11 commandments, eh?

 

[Inevitable]

These ARE the last days, and anyone who says they aren't is either very wishful, or ignorant of Scripture.

You are ignorantof scripture, particularly Matthew 24:36 where Jesus said that nobody knows the day. "not the anglesinheaven or the son but only the father."

I know all you can do is insult people that disagree with you.

It's not referring to religion. Our society calls abortion, homosexuality, and just about every activity frowned upon by Scripture "good". They also call those of us who take the Bible seriously "evil".

Homosexuality isn't frowned upon by scripture, and I doubt you take the bible seriously.

God's word condemns Homosexuality AS AN ABOMINATION!!!

No it doesn't.

 

[GISMYS]

You are ignorantof scripture, particularly Matthew 24:36 where Jesus said that nobody knows the day. "not the anglesinheaven or the son but only the father."

I know all you can do is insult people that disagree with you.


Homosexuality isn't frowned upon by scripture, and I doubt you take the bible seriously.

God's word condemns Homosexuality AS AN ABOMINATION!!!

No it doesn't.

Don’t you know that those doing such things have no share in the Kingdom of God? Don’t fool yourselves. Those who live immoral lives, who are idol worshipers, adulterers or homosexuals—will have no share in his Kingdom. 1 Corinthians 6:9-10

 

[GISMYS]

God's word condemns Homosexuality AS AN ABOMINATION!!!

No it doesn't.

Don’t you know that those doing such things have no share in the Kingdom of God? Don’t fool yourselves. Those who live immoral lives, who are idol worshipers, adulterers or homosexuals—will have no share in his Kingdom. 1 Corinthians 6:9-10

So God let them go ahead into every sort of sex sin, and do whatever they wanted to—yes, vile and sinful things with each other’s bodies. 25 Instead of believing what they knew was the truth about God, they deliberately chose to believe lies. So they prayed to the things God made, but wouldn’t obey the blessed God who made these things.

26 That is why God let go of them and let them do all these evil things, so that even their women turned against God’s natural plan for them and indulged in sex sin with each other. 27 And the men, instead of having normal sex relationships with women, burned with lust for each other, men doing shameful things with other men and, as a result, getting paid within their own souls with the penalty they so richly deserved.
Romans 1:24-27 confess and repent!!!

 

[Inevitable]

God's word condemns Homosexuality AS AN ABOMINATION!!!

No it doesn't.

Don’t you know that those doing such things have no share in the Kingdom of God? Don’t fool yourselves. Those who live immoral lives, who are idol worshipers, adulterers or homosexuals—will have no share in his Kingdom. 1 Corinthians 6:9-10

Funny, the bible was written 1800 years before the word homosexual existed.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Do you have some reason to think the people that say they made a choice are lying? Delusional? Something else? Maybe you think it is a coordinated conspiracy.

This is a strawman fallacy, I never once said any of the sortout even suggested it. Also: Do you have some reason to think the people that say they were born that way are lying? Delusional? Something else? Maybe you think it is a coordinated conspiracy.

I never said you said it, did I? I responded to your assertion that people are "born that way." You have to deal with the people who actually say they made a choice, the same way I have to deal with the people that claim they were born that way. Unlike you, I don't dodge the issue, I have repeatedly stated that the fact that an individual does not remember making a choice is not evidence they did not make one.

So, once again, how does your belief system deal with the fact that there are actually people out there that make a claim that directly contradicts your position? What is your explanation for data that contradicts your assertions? Are you simply going to dismiss it because you prefer your beliefs to the facts?

The problem in rejecting anecdotal evidence is that you still have to deal with the fact that people actually believe what they are saying.

Another strawman fallacy. I didn't reject it I said it isn't, reliable. There is far more anecdotal evidence from people that claim they are born that way. No other types of makers? Couldn't that just mean we haven't found one yet? Prove there isn't different brain development.

You keep using the term straw man wrong.

Straw man - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I never once misrepresented anything you said, I am asking you to explain evidence that contradicts your claims. Dismissing questions as a straw man argument is a childish tactic. People might think you are nice because you never respond to insults with insults, but the fact that you are responding to me by misrepresenting what I am doing proves to me that you just have a different way of insulting people.

It won't work on me, I don't invest myself emotionally, but feel free to keep pretending you are better than the people, like me, who are willing to actually get into the gutter and fight.

You made a claim, I did not. The burden of proof is on youto support your claim as it would be on people that claim they are born that way. Shifting theburden of proof isa logical fallacy.

I did support my claim, which is why I am free to challenge yours.

You really need to learn how to debate, to bad they stopped teaching it in schools since I grew up.

By the way, you are right that dexterity isn't genetic, it is a learned behavior. The proof of that is that, if you lose your dominant hand, even temporarily, you can learn to use the other just as well.

You can learn to use the other one, but who taught youto use yourstrong hand?

Who taught you to think? Some things people learn without external aid, some things people need help to learn. Dexterity isn't one of the latter.

As for the APA, you should read this.

Two Who Resigned From DSM-5 Explain Why | Psychology Today

If they reject science in their most important publication, how can you claim that the organization is scientific?

I read the link, I sawthey were talking about personalitydisorders and they mentioned leaving something out but I am unclear what it was the claim was left out.

Do some research, you might learn something.

for some reason the board software didn't include your question about markers, I wouldn't want you to accuse me of dodging the question.

The only accurate study of living people showed a difference in the size of INAH3 between straight and gay men.

http://blogs.scientificamerican.com/guest-blog/2012/10/19/is-homosexuality-a-choice/

The problem is that the difference does not prove that someone is homosexual, it is entirely possible for a straight man to have a relatively small INAH3, and there is no real evidence that links that area of the brain to anything.

http://mith.umd.edu/WomensStudies/ReadingRoom/AcademicPapers/levay-critique

Since I never actually claimed that there isn't a difference in brain structure, I see no reason to respond to your challenge to prove that there is. What I claimed, and still do, is that there are no markers that exist solely in gay people. Feel free to prove otherwise.

 

[GISMYS]

No it doesn't.

Don’t you know that those doing such things have no share in the Kingdom of God? Don’t fool yourselves. Those who live immoral lives, who are idol worshipers, adulterers or homosexuals—will have no share in his Kingdom. 1 Corinthians 6:9-10

Funny, the bible was written 1800 years before the word homosexual existed.

LOL!!! SO YOU NEVER HEARD OF SODOM AND GOMORRAH??? YOU HAVE A LOT TO Learn!!!