Is Bush A Racist?

[rtwngAvngr]

not as funny as the things that spew into yours.

 

[OCA]

Originally posted by rtwngAvngr
I find it hard to believe you're a conservative.

Anybody who doesn't agree with RWA is a liberal. Your act grows old here. From earlier posts of yours in months past I find it hard to believe that you are not racist. Actually I really don't know what most of your TRUE positions are as you are all over the lot with your views and your threads about liberalism and communism, jeez give All In The Family and the Limbaugh show a rest for a while, will ya?

 

[rtwngAvngr]

Originally posted by OCA
Anybody who doesn't agree with RWA is a liberal. Your act grows old here. From earlier posts of yours in months past I find it hard to believe that you are not racist. Actually I really don't know what most of your TRUE positions are as you are all over the lot with your views and your threads about liberalism and communism, jeez give All In The Family and the Limbaugh show a rest for a while, will ya?

You said it, not me. Where you're wrong is that my act is a s fresh as a brand new can of tennis balls. But thanks for playing!

 

[OCA]

Also, do you deny the obvious and are going to tell me that yes America is ready to go without any sort of hiring practice laws. Are you going to tell me that EVERYBODY is mature enough not to discriminate in hiring practices? If you are you are a hinderance to the Republican party and it neither needs or solicits your participation. Were you a big huge backer of Strom Thurmond?

 

[rtwngAvngr]

Originally posted by OCA
Also, do you deny the obvious and are going to tell me that yes America is ready to go without any sort of hiring practice laws. Are you going to tell me that EVERYBODY is mature enough not to discriminate in hiring practices? If you are you are a hinderance to the Republican party and it neither needs or solicits your participation. Were you a big huge backer of Strom Thurmond?

Yep. Racism is on the decline, and it's not due to aa.

It's not the place of government to dictate the racial composition of society in any arena.

Hey here's an idea. Let's just kill all the extra whites. That would make society more numerically equal, racially. What's wrong with that? Doesn't diversity trump all other notions of morality?

 

[OCA]

Originally posted by rtwngAvngr
You said it, not me. Where you're wrong is that my act is a s fresh as a brand new can of tennis balls. But thanks for playing!

Lol i'm pretty sure you know you are being intellectually dishonest and just spouting the position of the right wing of the Republican like a hack on this subject. To borrow a line from your liberal friends your feelings and intentions are in the right place but in practice they will have a huge detrimental effect on race relations in this country if enacted right now. This country needs to mature first, it will take time.

Please site some stats on the "decline of racism", my evidence as to it being prevalent are in a few different threads here.

 

[rtwngAvngr]

Originally posted by OCA
Lol i'm pretty sure you know you are being intellectually dishonest and just spouting the position of the right wing of the Republican like a hack on this subject. To borrow a line from your liberal friends your feelings and intentions are in the right place but in practice they will have a huge detrimental effect on race relations in this country if enacted right now. This country needs to mature first, it will take time.

Please site some stats on the "decline of racism", my evidence as to it being prevalent are in a few different threads here.

Hey, if you're sure. Whatever. Yes I know my attitudes against race based preference are harming the cause of eliminating race based preferences from society. I guess I'm just dumber than you.

Well, blacks no longer have to enter through separate entrances. They can sit anywhere on the bus, nowadays. But seriously. Are you saying race relations havent gotten steadily better in this country? I would like to know. I'm not going to go get research if you're not even denying the assertion. You must officially deny the assertion. I'm not your little performing chimp. In fact, unbeknownst to you, you're mine!

 

[William Joyce]

LoneVoice, I must beg to differ with your name. You're not actually a "lone voice." Actually, millions upon millions of liberals say the same thing you do. On this board, "colorblind conservatives" agree with some of what you say --- or at least your core beliefs, i.e., races are equal. The Congress, the courts, the President, the local governments, the schools, the corporations, God KNOWS the company I work for, much of my family, most of my neighbors (except the WWII veteran next door --- a voice of sanity), and ESPECIALLY the media speak with you.

If there are lonely voices, they are the ones advocating racial separatism, not the ones advocating integration.

 

[kcmcdonald]

AA is engraned in our society, but it is only engraned in our society because the issue of Raceism can not die in our society. I would arguee that in a sence raceism is dead in america. Know there is discrimination, but not out right raceism. Now there are exceptions in all races but the majority of americans are collor blind. Now AA policies only pander to the minority of populations. THe turly racesit individuals, not just white people, but blacks, mexicans, asains, women, homosexuals... I mean you name a group and they feal discriminated against. yet in turn these groups discriminate in kind to other groups. It is this minority who is truly hateful, not in public but in practice, that the AA laws are affecting. I would agree that this is a good cause for the minority. For that is what our country is founded upon, protection of the minority from the majority. However, in this case we are talking about the discrimination of a minority by a minority. That is all, for a majority of Americans are collor blind. This notion that all white people hate Blcaks or someother minority is not true. However this notion is pushed by the media and the radical left minorities. So in esscence I still say that Raceism as a whole in America no longer exsits. There is discrimination, but that is not by defintion Raceism. But as I said before it is a small minority, in all groups, that practice this behavior. Now to get to the whole picture, AA punishes a majority for the behavior of the minority. Which under our system and by basic understanding of civil liberaty is unfair. It is not just white people who are affected by theses kinds of Policies, policies where because of the behavior of a minority of the population that behavior is juxtaposed on the majority. Not all people are racists and not all racists are white. What we need to do is realise that no matter how you word or aplly AA is is raceists. It just depends on the group you apply it to wether it is against the majority or the minority. No ammount of legislation will change some Americans minds on race, hell look at Will, but that does not mean that you ahve to force a majority to comply with a belief they all ready hold, that jobs and postitions should be awarded on merit, not race and not quatas. The simple fact that some feal our society is not ready to abolish race keeps this argument going. WE are a society of multi-races and there will always be tension between the races, there is no getting around that, still we let the law of the land determine descrimination and raceism, not AA.

 

[OCA]

Originally posted by rtwngAvngr
Hey, if you're sure. Whatever. Yes I know my attitudes against race based preference are harming the cause of eliminating race based preferences from society. I guess I'm just dumber than you.

Well, blacks no longer have to enter through separate entrances. They can sit anywhere on the bus, nowadays. But seriously. Are you saying race relations havent gotten steadily better in this country? I would like to know. I'm not going to go get research if you're not even denying the assertion. You must officially deny the assertion. I'm not your little performing chimp. In fact, unbeknownst to you, you're mine!

Uh we're talking about race relations in the workplace, if you call letting minorities sit at the lunch counter or ride up front on the bus as significant life changing progress then we've a problem. While I acknowledge the in your face racism is not as prevalent I still deny your assertion that race relations are getting steadily better. The racism is now covert, under the surface as in running home and talking about all the bad blacks at work around the dinner table or the business owner who has all whites in the corporate office but all blacks working the warehouse doing the grunt work because dammit he's not having any of em in his office no matter who they are, that type of racism is prevalent. Now there isn't much you can do about the private sector but if it exists there what does that tell you about the public sector?

Now run and get those stats while I turn my organ grinder.

 

[LoneVoice]

Originally posted by kcmcdonald
AA is engraned in our society, but it is only engraned in our society because the issue of Raceism can not die in our society. I would arguee that in a sence raceism is dead in america. Know there is discrimination, but not out right raceism. Now there are exceptions in all races but the majority of americans are collor blind. Now AA policies only pander to the minority of populations. THe turly racesit individuals, not just white people, but blacks, mexicans, asains, women, homosexuals... I mean you name a group and they feal discriminated against. yet in turn these groups discriminate in kind to other groups. It is this minority who is truly hateful, not in public but in practice, that the AA laws are affecting. I would agree that this is a good cause for the minority. For that is what our country is founded upon, protection of the minority from the majority. However, in this case we are talking about the discrimination of a minority by a minority. That is all, for a majority of Americans are collor blind. This notion that all white people hate Blcaks or someother minority is not true. However this notion is pushed by the media and the radical left minorities. So in esscence I still say that Raceism as a whole in America no longer exsits. There is discrimination, but that is not by defintion Raceism. But as I said before it is a small minority, in all groups, that practice this behavior. Now to get to the whole picture, AA punishes a majority for the behavior of the minority. Which under our system and by basic understanding of civil liberaty is unfair. It is not just white people who are affected by theses kinds of Policies, policies where because of the behavior of a minority of the population that behavior is juxtaposed on the majority. Not all people are racists and not all racists are white. What we need to do is realise that no matter how you word or aplly AA is is raceists. It just depends on the group you apply it to wether it is against the majority or the minority. No ammount of legislation will change some Americans minds on race, hell look at Will, but that does not mean that you ahve to force a majority to comply with a belief they all ready hold, that jobs and postitions should be awarded on merit, not race and not quatas. The simple fact that some feal our society is not ready to abolish race keeps this argument going. WE are a society of multi-races and there will always be tension between the races, there is no getting around that, still we let the law of the land determine descrimination and raceism, not AA.

Let's extend your argument further. You're saying that on the whole currently white's are not racist nor discriminatory. There may be a minority of cases where they are discriminatory. Sure... I'll agree with that. And you don't like AA because it applies to the majority, when there are only a minority that discriminate.

Well, you'd have to also agree that on the whole a majority of the times AA just assists qualified minorities in getting in the door. There may be a minority of cases where a minority is taken over a more qualified white, but on the whole that's not the case. There may be a few minor discriminations, but on the whole that's not the intention. So, let's keep AA, because a majority of the time it's more helpful than harmful.

 

[rtwngAvngr]

Originally posted by OCA
Uh we're talking about race relations in the workplace, if you call letting minorities sit at the lunch counter or ride up front on the bus as significant life changing progress then we've a problem. While I acknowledge the in your face racism is not as prevalent I still deny your assertion that race relations are getting steadily better. The racism is now covert, under the surface as in running home and talking about all the bad blacks at work around the dinner table or the business owner who has all whites in the corporate office but all blacks working the warehouse doing the grunt work because dammit he's not having any of em in his office no matter who they are, that type of racism is prevalent. Now there isn't much you can do about the private sector but if it exists there what does that tell you about the public sector?

Now run and get those stats while I turn my organ grinder.

Actually it is a vast improvement. Any idiot can see that. It's markedly better by any measure.

Oooh.. covert racism. Hey, there's a black helicopter.

 

[rtwngAvngr]

Originally posted by LoneVoice
Let's extend your argument further. You're saying that on the whole currently white's are not racist nor discriminatory. There may be a minority of cases where they are discriminatory. Sure... I'll agree with that. And you don't like AA because it applies to the majority, when there are only a minority that discriminate.

Well, you'd have to also agree that on the whole a majority of the times AA just assists qualified minorities in getting in the door. There may be a minority of cases where a minority is taken over a more qualified white, but on the whole that's not the case. There may be a few minor discriminations, but on the whole that's not the intention. So, let's keep AA, because a majority of the time it's more helpful than harmful.

You're a racist, plain and simple. It's not noble. It
s not fair. It's not englightened. It's just as backward as slavery ever was. I truly feel you're warped beyond salvage.

 

[kcmcdonald]

Originally posted by LoneVoice
Let's extend your argument further. You're saying that on the whole currently white's are not racist nor discriminatory. There may be a minority of cases where they are discriminatory. Sure... I'll agree with that. And you don't like AA because it applies to the majority, when there are only a minority that discriminate.

Well, you'd have to also agree that on the whole a majority of the times AA just assists qualified minorities in getting in the door. There may be a minority of cases where a minority is taken over a more qualified white, but on the whole that's not the case. There may be a few minor discriminations, but on the whole that's not the intention. So, let's keep AA, because a majority of the time it's more helpful than harmful.

lone,
you could say that the arugment for AA exsists on your argument that it hurts few and helps more. I would agree with you on this point. However even if we sugarcoat this program we are still, if not in definition, praticeing reverce racesim. to not only whites but also asains because they in America are not considered a minority. and also against women for they are no longer an oppressed minority. America is a land of oppertunnity. While i agree that some people still discriminate against minorities. Don't you feel however that a person would feal much better at recieveing a job or pormotion based on the skills he has and the job he's done, rather than being given the job because of the color of his skin. I would arguee that AA is conterproductive. Not all but some minorities might feal entitiled to work or promotions becaue of thier race. and others might feal pressured to hire based on race becaue the office is getting a little to white. Even though race has nbothing to do with it, it's just that more qualfied workers who apllied happened to be white. It's a slippery slope on where we draw the line between helping people and forcing people.

 

[rtwngAvngr]

Originally posted by kcmcdonald

you could say that the arugment for AA exsists on your argument that it hurts few and helps more. I would agree with you on this point.

Just because some people benefit doesn't justify or validate the program in any way. Bank robbers benefit when they steal. Someone benefitting does not factor in to the ultimate morality of the policy. Think of it essentially as looting. Looters benefit. Is looting ok?

 

[kcmcdonald]

RWA,
hey man, I'm against AA, I'm just not gettting into shouting matches with the opposition. It brings the argument out, then bith sides can find agrements and discuse differences. It's called open discussion. I'm not trying to race bait anyone hear. This is a serious topic and it should be seriously discussed. That's all. I'm not saying that we should have an all out AA i'm just agreeing that AA hurts less and helps more. and if apllied that way it is a valid argument, if you kept reading i said....

However even if we sugarcoat this program we are still, if not in definition, praticeing reverce racesim. to not only whites but also asains because they in America are not considered a minority. and also against women for they are no longer an oppressed minority. America is a land of oppertunnity. While i agree that some people still discriminate against minorities. Don't you feel however that a person would feal much better at recieveing a job or pormotion based on the skills he has and the job he's done, rather than being given the job because of the color of his skin. I would arguee that AA is conterproductive. Not all but some minorities might feal entitiled to work or promotions becaue of thier race. and others might feal pressured to hire based on race becaue the office is getting a little to white. Even though race has nbothing to do with it, it's just that more qualfied workers who apllied happened to be white. It's a slippery slope on where we draw the line between helping people and forcing people.

 

[rtwngAvngr]

Originally posted by kcmcdonald
RWA,
hey man, I'm against AA, I'm just not gettting into shouting matches with the opposition. It brings the argument out, then bith sides can find agrements and discuse differences. It's called open discussion. I'm not trying to race bait anyone hear. This is a serious topic and it should be seriously discussed. That's all. I'm not saying that we should have an all out AA i'm just agreeing that AA hurts less and helps more. and if apllied that way it is a valid argument, if you kept reading i said....

NO it is not. Oppressing one group with discrimintory policy is wrong, regardless of how many are helped. They'd also be helped if we just kicked all white people out of their homes and let blacks have them. we don't do that because it's wrong, even though, yes, it would be helpful from the black point of view.

 

[DKSuddeth]

Unless we're going to continue this thread on topic I'm going to close it.

 

[rtwngAvngr]

Even having ideas of racial quotas that society should conform to is sick. Why don't we just forbid white people from reproducing until there's an equal number of blacks in the nation. That'd be fair.

 

[William Joyce]

They'd also be helped if we just kicked all white people out of their homes and let blacks have them. we don't do that

Actually, we did do that in the cities of the North beginning in the 1940s and ending in the 1970s. Aka "White Flight." Read E. Michael Jones' Slaughter of the Cities for the details. Whole white neighborhoods were condemned by government order and razed to make way for public housing. It was spurred in part by WASPs who, in Jones' view, wanted to prevent the newly-arrived whites from forming Catholic enclaves that would be resistant to World War II. The blacks were needed a source of cheap war labor.

George W. Bush is descended from these WASPs. So, maybe he's an anti-white racist.

There! On topic!