Is America A Christian Nation?

[sealybobo]

Religion and Faith are mutually exclusive , in fact the institutionalization of religion is the single most destructive element faith has ,or will ,ever endure

absolutely hands down a lie

If these fascist fundies are so bent on infiltrating governance, let them pay their 'effin way , tax the sh*t outta them

~S~

Are you sure you have done a proper accounting of religion?

He's just as sure as you are. And I'm just as sure as both of you. LOL

If that were the case you’d debate me in the bull ring over it and so would he.

No. If this debate could be won then it'd already be won by smarter men than me. The fact is you are wrong but when you doubt the scientists of the world who specialize in this and believe the global corporate polluters position on this, what can I say that will convince you? You're the slickest idiot I know ding.

Because I understand science?

Has anyone ever told you that you are overly emotional?

Pro science people all around the world can’t believe so many Americans deny the science

 

[sealybobo]

As a lifelong Christian I do feel we are based on Christian values. However greed and corporatism has made it ok to twist Christian values to meet greedy natratives. Jesus wasn't about the wealthy. Jesus taught about helping the least among us...almost solely. Yet here we are today...a nation that is first and foremost about garnering the most money.

And it's the richest among us who are cutting foodstamps, welfare, medicare, social security, etc. All the social programs that help the masses. All so they can make a little more.

And why? It's their money! They don't realize they became rich in a much different society. One that made college affordable for example. But they don't care because they have theirs now. It's literally like climbing a ladder someone provided you and then lifting up the ladder once you've climbed it so no one else can climb it.

Would you like to be a communist state?

No. Next stupid question

 

[ding]

Are you sure you have done a proper accounting of religion?

He's just as sure as you are. And I'm just as sure as both of you. LOL

If that were the case you’d debate me in the bull ring over it and so would he.

No. If this debate could be won then it'd already be won by smarter men than me. The fact is you are wrong but when you doubt the scientists of the world who specialize in this and believe the global corporate polluters position on this, what can I say that will convince you? You're the slickest idiot I know ding.

Because I understand science?

Has anyone ever told you that you are overly emotional?

Pro science people all around the world can’t believe so many Americans deny the science

What science? Models aren’t science. Especially models that can’t history match.

Tell you what show me one climate change in the past 55 million years that was caused by CO2.

 

[ding]

As a lifelong Christian I do feel we are based on Christian values. However greed and corporatism has made it ok to twist Christian values to meet greedy natratives. Jesus wasn't about the wealthy. Jesus taught about helping the least among us...almost solely. Yet here we are today...a nation that is first and foremost about garnering the most money.

And it's the richest among us who are cutting foodstamps, welfare, medicare, social security, etc. All the social programs that help the masses. All so they can make a little more.

And why? It's their money! They don't realize they became rich in a much different society. One that made college affordable for example. But they don't care because they have theirs now. It's literally like climbing a ladder someone provided you and then lifting up the ladder once you've climbed it so no one else can climb it.

Would you like to be a communist state?

No. Next stupid question

You sound like a communist. All you do is complain about rich people.

 

[ding]

As a lifelong Christian I do feel we are based on Christian values. However greed and corporatism has made it ok to twist Christian values to meet greedy natratives. Jesus wasn't about the wealthy. Jesus taught about helping the least among us...almost solely. Yet here we are today...a nation that is first and foremost about garnering the most money.

And it's the richest among us who are cutting foodstamps, welfare, medicare, social security, etc. All the social programs that help the masses. All so they can make a little more.

And why? It's their money! They don't realize they became rich in a much different society. One that made college affordable for example. But they don't care because they have theirs now. It's literally like climbing a ladder someone provided you and then lifting up the ladder once you've climbed it so no one else can climb it.

Would you like to be a communist state?

No. Next stupid question

Which IPCC projection do you believe is correct and why?

 

[Hollie]

It depends on how you define 'Christian Nation'.

Exactly.

There may be no official state religion but there is little doubt IMHO that America is a Christian nation to some degree.

I'm with you. The Framers of the Constitution clearly did not want a State religion. However, the majority of the people in the US have always been Christian.

Doesn't matter that the majority were christians.

One of the key questions is why did George Washington refuse to take communion for most of his adult life? For the serious Christian, such refusal is an act of self-excommunication.

More important, defenders have to explain why George Washington occupied the rank of Grand Master in the Masonic lodge. Each promotion in the Masonic lodge requires taking an anti-Christian oath?

In spite of right-wing Christian attempts to rewrite history to make Jefferson into a Christian, little about his philosophy resembles that of Christianity. Although Jefferson in the Declaration of Independence wrote of the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God, there exists nothing in the Declaration about Christianity.

Jefferson created his own New Testament that removed all supernatural acts of Christ.

The Book of Revelations warns that taking away from or adding to scripture is a highly blasphemous act with extreme punishment. Thomas Jefferson doesn't sound like a God fearing man at all.

There are alternate history books that paint our forefathers as faithful Christians. If the United States ever was a Christian theocracy then it was for a brief period in the 1950's. There was a lot of rewriting of history during the 1950s. A lot of the leaders of that time were promoting these types of lies. That's why we hear it so much today. The indoctrinated children of the 1950s are currently at the age that is ripe for government service. They firmly believe the United States is a Christian nation. They grew up in an environment where that premise was never challenged.

Yes I saw that story about this era where Christians really pushed to make us a Christian nation.

They even put in god we trust on the dollar

In the U.S., we are by definition a secular nation -- there was considerable debate among the Founding Fathers about the entire god issue-- and the constitution is quite secular.

One can argue far better that having come from theocracies themselves the Founding Fathers were very much aware of the dangers of blending religion and government. Even if they personally believed -- they purposely ratified a constitution that was totally secular in nature (and intent). They clearly did not wish to eradicate religion which is why they enacted a muzzle on government to keep religious expression free. However, the result of this by definition means the gov't cannot exalt one religion over another. Keep Christianity in culture, whether or not Christianity is dominant or not, but do not allow the government to assert it or any other religion over the other. The only way to do that is to be neutral on the issue of religion at all. As the country does become more diversified and embraces more religious beliefs (including none) the Constitution is designed to evolve to include those concerns. The Founding Fathers would, I believe, note their legal design has worked quite well.

 

[sealybobo]

Exactly.

There may be no official state religion but there is little doubt IMHO that America is a Christian nation to some degree.

I'm with you. The Framers of the Constitution clearly did not want a State religion. However, the majority of the people in the US have always been Christian.

Doesn't matter that the majority were christians.

One of the key questions is why did George Washington refuse to take communion for most of his adult life? For the serious Christian, such refusal is an act of self-excommunication.

More important, defenders have to explain why George Washington occupied the rank of Grand Master in the Masonic lodge. Each promotion in the Masonic lodge requires taking an anti-Christian oath?

In spite of right-wing Christian attempts to rewrite history to make Jefferson into a Christian, little about his philosophy resembles that of Christianity. Although Jefferson in the Declaration of Independence wrote of the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God, there exists nothing in the Declaration about Christianity.

Jefferson created his own New Testament that removed all supernatural acts of Christ.

The Book of Revelations warns that taking away from or adding to scripture is a highly blasphemous act with extreme punishment. Thomas Jefferson doesn't sound like a God fearing man at all.

There are alternate history books that paint our forefathers as faithful Christians. If the United States ever was a Christian theocracy then it was for a brief period in the 1950's. There was a lot of rewriting of history during the 1950s. A lot of the leaders of that time were promoting these types of lies. That's why we hear it so much today. The indoctrinated children of the 1950s are currently at the age that is ripe for government service. They firmly believe the United States is a Christian nation. They grew up in an environment where that premise was never challenged.

Yes I saw that story about this era where Christians really pushed to make us a Christian nation.

They even put in god we trust on the dollar

In the U.S., we are by definition a secular nation -- there was considerable debate among the Founding Fathers about the entire god issue-- and the constitution is quite secular.

One can argue far better that having come from theocracies themselves the Founding Fathers were very much aware of the dangers of blending religion and government. Even if they personally believed -- they purposely ratified a constitution that was totally secular in nature (and intent). They clearly did not wish to eradicate religion which is why they enacted a muzzle on government to keep religious expression free. However, the result of this by definition means the gov't cannot exalt one religion over another. Keep Christianity in culture, whether or not Christianity is dominant or not, but do not allow the government to assert it or any other religion over the other. The only way to do that is to be neutral on the issue of religion at all. As the country does become more diversified and embraces more religious beliefs (including none) the Constitution is designed to evolve to include those concerns. The Founding Fathers would, I believe, note their legal design has worked quite well.

Republicans knew they could use religion to win elections. I used to think that shit only happened in baptist or American churches but even my Greek Orthodox church has been politicized. My nephews tell me things the priest says he’s a total republican and he flat out tells people to vote republican.

He’s anti Muslim, gays and abortion.

 

[Hollie]

I'm with you. The Framers of the Constitution clearly did not want a State religion. However, the majority of the people in the US have always been Christian.

Doesn't matter that the majority were christians.

One of the key questions is why did George Washington refuse to take communion for most of his adult life? For the serious Christian, such refusal is an act of self-excommunication.

More important, defenders have to explain why George Washington occupied the rank of Grand Master in the Masonic lodge. Each promotion in the Masonic lodge requires taking an anti-Christian oath?

In spite of right-wing Christian attempts to rewrite history to make Jefferson into a Christian, little about his philosophy resembles that of Christianity. Although Jefferson in the Declaration of Independence wrote of the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God, there exists nothing in the Declaration about Christianity.

Jefferson created his own New Testament that removed all supernatural acts of Christ.

The Book of Revelations warns that taking away from or adding to scripture is a highly blasphemous act with extreme punishment. Thomas Jefferson doesn't sound like a God fearing man at all.

There are alternate history books that paint our forefathers as faithful Christians. If the United States ever was a Christian theocracy then it was for a brief period in the 1950's. There was a lot of rewriting of history during the 1950s. A lot of the leaders of that time were promoting these types of lies. That's why we hear it so much today. The indoctrinated children of the 1950s are currently at the age that is ripe for government service. They firmly believe the United States is a Christian nation. They grew up in an environment where that premise was never challenged.

Yes I saw that story about this era where Christians really pushed to make us a Christian nation.

They even put in god we trust on the dollar

In the U.S., we are by definition a secular nation -- there was considerable debate among the Founding Fathers about the entire god issue-- and the constitution is quite secular.

One can argue far better that having come from theocracies themselves the Founding Fathers were very much aware of the dangers of blending religion and government. Even if they personally believed -- they purposely ratified a constitution that was totally secular in nature (and intent). They clearly did not wish to eradicate religion which is why they enacted a muzzle on government to keep religious expression free. However, the result of this by definition means the gov't cannot exalt one religion over another. Keep Christianity in culture, whether or not Christianity is dominant or not, but do not allow the government to assert it or any other religion over the other. The only way to do that is to be neutral on the issue of religion at all. As the country does become more diversified and embraces more religious beliefs (including none) the Constitution is designed to evolve to include those concerns. The Founding Fathers would, I believe, note their legal design has worked quite well.

Republicans knew they could use religion to win elections. I used to think that shit only happened in baptist or American churches but even my Greek Orthodox church has been politicized. My nephews tell me things the priest says he’s a total republican and he flat out tells people to vote republican.

He’s anti Muslim, gays and abortion.

I can’t say I’m surprised as the fundamentalist Christians on the far right and left have gotten progressively more toxic and militant.

 

[Pilot1]

Yes, the U.S. is still 75% - 80% Christian.

 

[presonorek]

Yes, the U.S. is still 75% - 80% Christian.

Everybody has a different definition of Christian.

 

[ding]

Exactly.

There may be no official state religion but there is little doubt IMHO that America is a Christian nation to some degree.

I'm with you. The Framers of the Constitution clearly did not want a State religion. However, the majority of the people in the US have always been Christian.

Doesn't matter that the majority were christians.

One of the key questions is why did George Washington refuse to take communion for most of his adult life? For the serious Christian, such refusal is an act of self-excommunication.

More important, defenders have to explain why George Washington occupied the rank of Grand Master in the Masonic lodge. Each promotion in the Masonic lodge requires taking an anti-Christian oath?

In spite of right-wing Christian attempts to rewrite history to make Jefferson into a Christian, little about his philosophy resembles that of Christianity. Although Jefferson in the Declaration of Independence wrote of the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God, there exists nothing in the Declaration about Christianity.

Jefferson created his own New Testament that removed all supernatural acts of Christ.

The Book of Revelations warns that taking away from or adding to scripture is a highly blasphemous act with extreme punishment. Thomas Jefferson doesn't sound like a God fearing man at all.

There are alternate history books that paint our forefathers as faithful Christians. If the United States ever was a Christian theocracy then it was for a brief period in the 1950's. There was a lot of rewriting of history during the 1950s. A lot of the leaders of that time were promoting these types of lies. That's why we hear it so much today. The indoctrinated children of the 1950s are currently at the age that is ripe for government service. They firmly believe the United States is a Christian nation. They grew up in an environment where that premise was never challenged.

Yes I saw that story about this era where Christians really pushed to make us a Christian nation.

They even put in god we trust on the dollar

In the U.S., we are by definition a secular nation -- there was considerable debate among the Founding Fathers about the entire god issue-- and the constitution is quite secular.

One can argue far better that having come from theocracies themselves the Founding Fathers were very much aware of the dangers of blending religion and government. Even if they personally believed -- they purposely ratified a constitution that was totally secular in nature (and intent). They clearly did not wish to eradicate religion which is why they enacted a muzzle on government to keep religious expression free. However, the result of this by definition means the gov't cannot exalt one religion over another. Keep Christianity in culture, whether or not Christianity is dominant or not, but do not allow the government to assert it or any other religion over the other. The only way to do that is to be neutral on the issue of religion at all. As the country does become more diversified and embraces more religious beliefs (including none) the Constitution is designed to evolve to include those concerns. The Founding Fathers would, I believe, note their legal design has worked quite well.

The founding fathers believed that religion and virtue were pillars of liberty and freedom. They believed that absent virtue and religion that liberty and freedom could not be maintained.

 

[Hollie]

Yes, the U.S. is still 75% - 80% Christian.

Everybody has a different definition of Christian.

There are something like 35 denominations of Christianity in the US, alone. Many of them antagonistic to one-another.

 

[Hollie]

I'm with you. The Framers of the Constitution clearly did not want a State religion. However, the majority of the people in the US have always been Christian.

Doesn't matter that the majority were christians.

One of the key questions is why did George Washington refuse to take communion for most of his adult life? For the serious Christian, such refusal is an act of self-excommunication.

More important, defenders have to explain why George Washington occupied the rank of Grand Master in the Masonic lodge. Each promotion in the Masonic lodge requires taking an anti-Christian oath?

In spite of right-wing Christian attempts to rewrite history to make Jefferson into a Christian, little about his philosophy resembles that of Christianity. Although Jefferson in the Declaration of Independence wrote of the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God, there exists nothing in the Declaration about Christianity.

Jefferson created his own New Testament that removed all supernatural acts of Christ.

The Book of Revelations warns that taking away from or adding to scripture is a highly blasphemous act with extreme punishment. Thomas Jefferson doesn't sound like a God fearing man at all.

There are alternate history books that paint our forefathers as faithful Christians. If the United States ever was a Christian theocracy then it was for a brief period in the 1950's. There was a lot of rewriting of history during the 1950s. A lot of the leaders of that time were promoting these types of lies. That's why we hear it so much today. The indoctrinated children of the 1950s are currently at the age that is ripe for government service. They firmly believe the United States is a Christian nation. They grew up in an environment where that premise was never challenged.

Yes I saw that story about this era where Christians really pushed to make us a Christian nation.

They even put in god we trust on the dollar

In the U.S., we are by definition a secular nation -- there was considerable debate among the Founding Fathers about the entire god issue-- and the constitution is quite secular.

One can argue far better that having come from theocracies themselves the Founding Fathers were very much aware of the dangers of blending religion and government. Even if they personally believed -- they purposely ratified a constitution that was totally secular in nature (and intent). They clearly did not wish to eradicate religion which is why they enacted a muzzle on government to keep religious expression free. However, the result of this by definition means the gov't cannot exalt one religion over another. Keep Christianity in culture, whether or not Christianity is dominant or not, but do not allow the government to assert it or any other religion over the other. The only way to do that is to be neutral on the issue of religion at all. As the country does become more diversified and embraces more religious beliefs (including none) the Constitution is designed to evolve to include those concerns. The Founding Fathers would, I believe, note their legal design has worked quite well.

The founding fathers believed that religion and virtue were pillars of liberty and freedom. They believed that absent virtue and religion that liberty and freedom could not be maintained.

Another of your nonsense claims.

 

[ding]

Doesn't matter that the majority were christians.

One of the key questions is why did George Washington refuse to take communion for most of his adult life? For the serious Christian, such refusal is an act of self-excommunication.

More important, defenders have to explain why George Washington occupied the rank of Grand Master in the Masonic lodge. Each promotion in the Masonic lodge requires taking an anti-Christian oath?

In spite of right-wing Christian attempts to rewrite history to make Jefferson into a Christian, little about his philosophy resembles that of Christianity. Although Jefferson in the Declaration of Independence wrote of the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God, there exists nothing in the Declaration about Christianity.

Jefferson created his own New Testament that removed all supernatural acts of Christ.

The Book of Revelations warns that taking away from or adding to scripture is a highly blasphemous act with extreme punishment. Thomas Jefferson doesn't sound like a God fearing man at all.

There are alternate history books that paint our forefathers as faithful Christians. If the United States ever was a Christian theocracy then it was for a brief period in the 1950's. There was a lot of rewriting of history during the 1950s. A lot of the leaders of that time were promoting these types of lies. That's why we hear it so much today. The indoctrinated children of the 1950s are currently at the age that is ripe for government service. They firmly believe the United States is a Christian nation. They grew up in an environment where that premise was never challenged.

Yes I saw that story about this era where Christians really pushed to make us a Christian nation.

They even put in god we trust on the dollar

In the U.S., we are by definition a secular nation -- there was considerable debate among the Founding Fathers about the entire god issue-- and the constitution is quite secular.

One can argue far better that having come from theocracies themselves the Founding Fathers were very much aware of the dangers of blending religion and government. Even if they personally believed -- they purposely ratified a constitution that was totally secular in nature (and intent). They clearly did not wish to eradicate religion which is why they enacted a muzzle on government to keep religious expression free. However, the result of this by definition means the gov't cannot exalt one religion over another. Keep Christianity in culture, whether or not Christianity is dominant or not, but do not allow the government to assert it or any other religion over the other. The only way to do that is to be neutral on the issue of religion at all. As the country does become more diversified and embraces more religious beliefs (including none) the Constitution is designed to evolve to include those concerns. The Founding Fathers would, I believe, note their legal design has worked quite well.

The founding fathers believed that religion and virtue were pillars of liberty and freedom. They believed that absent virtue and religion that liberty and freedom could not be maintained.

Another of your nonsense claims.

George Washington
Farewell Address, Sept 17, 1796

“Of all the dispositions and habits which lead to political prosperity, religion and morality are indispensable supports...In vain would that man claim the tribute of patriotism who should labor to subvert these great pillars of human happiness, these firmest props of the duties of men and citizens...”

“…And let us with caution indulge the supposition that morality can be maintained without religion...reason and experience both forbid us to expect that national morality can prevail in exclusion of religious principle.”

The Will of the People: Readings in American Democracy (Chicago: Great Books Foundation, 2001), 38.

 

[Hollie]

Jefferson created his own New Testament that removed all supernatural acts of Christ.

The Book of Revelations warns that taking away from or adding to scripture is a highly blasphemous act with extreme punishment. Thomas Jefferson doesn't sound like a God fearing man at all.

There are alternate history books that paint our forefathers as faithful Christians. If the United States ever was a Christian theocracy then it was for a brief period in the 1950's. There was a lot of rewriting of history during the 1950s. A lot of the leaders of that time were promoting these types of lies. That's why we hear it so much today. The indoctrinated children of the 1950s are currently at the age that is ripe for government service. They firmly believe the United States is a Christian nation. They grew up in an environment where that premise was never challenged.

Yes I saw that story about this era where Christians really pushed to make us a Christian nation.

They even put in god we trust on the dollar

In the U.S., we are by definition a secular nation -- there was considerable debate among the Founding Fathers about the entire god issue-- and the constitution is quite secular.

One can argue far better that having come from theocracies themselves the Founding Fathers were very much aware of the dangers of blending religion and government. Even if they personally believed -- they purposely ratified a constitution that was totally secular in nature (and intent). They clearly did not wish to eradicate religion which is why they enacted a muzzle on government to keep religious expression free. However, the result of this by definition means the gov't cannot exalt one religion over another. Keep Christianity in culture, whether or not Christianity is dominant or not, but do not allow the government to assert it or any other religion over the other. The only way to do that is to be neutral on the issue of religion at all. As the country does become more diversified and embraces more religious beliefs (including none) the Constitution is designed to evolve to include those concerns. The Founding Fathers would, I believe, note their legal design has worked quite well.

The founding fathers believed that religion and virtue were pillars of liberty and freedom. They believed that absent virtue and religion that liberty and freedom could not be maintained.

Another of your nonsense claims.

George Washington
Farewell Address, Sept 17, 1796

“Of all the dispositions and habits which lead to political prosperity, religion and morality are indispensable supports...In vain would that man claim the tribute of patriotism who should labor to subvert these great pillars of human happiness, these firmest props of the duties of men and citizens...”

“…And let us with caution indulge the supposition that morality can be maintained without religion...reason and experience both forbid us to expect that national morality can prevail in exclusion of religious principle.”

The Will of the People: Readings in American Democracy (Chicago: Great Books Foundation, 2001), 38.

And yet, the Constitution is a secular document.

 

[ding]

Yes I saw that story about this era where Christians really pushed to make us a Christian nation.

They even put in god we trust on the dollar

In the U.S., we are by definition a secular nation -- there was considerable debate among the Founding Fathers about the entire god issue-- and the constitution is quite secular.

One can argue far better that having come from theocracies themselves the Founding Fathers were very much aware of the dangers of blending religion and government. Even if they personally believed -- they purposely ratified a constitution that was totally secular in nature (and intent). They clearly did not wish to eradicate religion which is why they enacted a muzzle on government to keep religious expression free. However, the result of this by definition means the gov't cannot exalt one religion over another. Keep Christianity in culture, whether or not Christianity is dominant or not, but do not allow the government to assert it or any other religion over the other. The only way to do that is to be neutral on the issue of religion at all. As the country does become more diversified and embraces more religious beliefs (including none) the Constitution is designed to evolve to include those concerns. The Founding Fathers would, I believe, note their legal design has worked quite well.

The founding fathers believed that religion and virtue were pillars of liberty and freedom. They believed that absent virtue and religion that liberty and freedom could not be maintained.

Another of your nonsense claims.

George Washington
Farewell Address, Sept 17, 1796

“Of all the dispositions and habits which lead to political prosperity, religion and morality are indispensable supports...In vain would that man claim the tribute of patriotism who should labor to subvert these great pillars of human happiness, these firmest props of the duties of men and citizens...”

“…And let us with caution indulge the supposition that morality can be maintained without religion...reason and experience both forbid us to expect that national morality can prevail in exclusion of religious principle.”

The Will of the People: Readings in American Democracy (Chicago: Great Books Foundation, 2001), 38.

And yet, the Constitution is a secular document.

And yet the establishment clause of the 1st Amendment was written to prevent the federal government from interfering with the established religions of the states of which half had at the time the constitution was ratified.

 

[ding]

John Adams in a speech to the military in 1798 warned his fellow countrymen stating, "We have no government armed with power capable of contending with human passions unbridled by morality and religion . . . Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other." John Adams is a signer of the Declaration of Independence, the Bill of Rights and our second President.

 

[Hollie]

In the U.S., we are by definition a secular nation -- there was considerable debate among the Founding Fathers about the entire god issue-- and the constitution is quite secular.

One can argue far better that having come from theocracies themselves the Founding Fathers were very much aware of the dangers of blending religion and government. Even if they personally believed -- they purposely ratified a constitution that was totally secular in nature (and intent). They clearly did not wish to eradicate religion which is why they enacted a muzzle on government to keep religious expression free. However, the result of this by definition means the gov't cannot exalt one religion over another. Keep Christianity in culture, whether or not Christianity is dominant or not, but do not allow the government to assert it or any other religion over the other. The only way to do that is to be neutral on the issue of religion at all. As the country does become more diversified and embraces more religious beliefs (including none) the Constitution is designed to evolve to include those concerns. The Founding Fathers would, I believe, note their legal design has worked quite well.

The founding fathers believed that religion and virtue were pillars of liberty and freedom. They believed that absent virtue and religion that liberty and freedom could not be maintained.

Another of your nonsense claims.

George Washington
Farewell Address, Sept 17, 1796

“Of all the dispositions and habits which lead to political prosperity, religion and morality are indispensable supports...In vain would that man claim the tribute of patriotism who should labor to subvert these great pillars of human happiness, these firmest props of the duties of men and citizens...”

“…And let us with caution indulge the supposition that morality can be maintained without religion...reason and experience both forbid us to expect that national morality can prevail in exclusion of religious principle.”

The Will of the People: Readings in American Democracy (Chicago: Great Books Foundation, 2001), 38.

And yet, the Constitution is a secular document.

And yet the establishment clause of the 1st Amendment was written to prevent the federal government from interfering with the established religions of the states of which half had at the time the constitution was ratified.

And yet the Constitution is a thoroughly secular document, no appeals to the jeebus.

 

[ding]

Benjamin Rush, Signer of the Declaration of Independence said. "[T]he only foundation for a useful education in a republic is to be aid in religion. Without this there can be no virtue, and without virtue there can be no liberty, and liberty is the object and life of all republican governments. Without religion, I believe that learning does real mischief to the morals and principles of mankind."

 

[ding]

The founding fathers believed that religion and virtue were pillars of liberty and freedom. They believed that absent virtue and religion that liberty and freedom could not be maintained.

Another of your nonsense claims.

George Washington
Farewell Address, Sept 17, 1796

“Of all the dispositions and habits which lead to political prosperity, religion and morality are indispensable supports...In vain would that man claim the tribute of patriotism who should labor to subvert these great pillars of human happiness, these firmest props of the duties of men and citizens...”

“…And let us with caution indulge the supposition that morality can be maintained without religion...reason and experience both forbid us to expect that national morality can prevail in exclusion of religious principle.”

The Will of the People: Readings in American Democracy (Chicago: Great Books Foundation, 2001), 38.

And yet, the Constitution is a secular document.

And yet the establishment clause of the 1st Amendment was written to prevent the federal government from interfering with the established religions of the states of which half had at the time the constitution was ratified.

And yet the Constitution is a thoroughly secular document, no appeals to the jeebus.

Which recognized the states rights to establish state religions.