IMPORTANT - No need for new amendment to clarify meaning of 14th amendment

[ShootSpeeders]

14A is the famous "birthright citizenship" amendment that begins

"All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside"

No one knows what the phrase "subject to the jurisdiction thereof" really means and it's been suggested we need a new constitiutional amendment to tell us. But at the end of the 14A is the phrase

"The Congress shall have power to enforce, by appropriate legislation, the provisions of this article."

This means congress can simply pass a law saying children born to illegals are not citizens and there is no need to go thru the lengthy amending process. It can be done overnight!

 

[LilOlLady]

14A is the famous "birthright citizenship" amendment that begins

"All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside"

No one knows what the phrase "subject to the jurisdiction thereof" really means and it's been suggested we need a new constitiutional amendment to tell us. But at the end of the 14A is the phrase

"The Congress shall have power to enforce, by appropriate legislation, the provisions of this article."

This means congress can simply pass a law saying children born to illegals are not citizens and there is no need to go thru the lengthy amending process. It can be done overnight!

We will never get control of illegal immigration and enforcement until automatic birthright citizenship for children of illegal aliens is correctly interpreted and applied. The biggest incentive for amnesty.

 

[pinqy]

14A is the famous "birthright citizenship" amendment that begins

"All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside"

No one knows what the phrase "subject to the jurisdiction thereof" really means

Sure we do. It means that children born to those with diplomatic immunity are not citizens and it meant, in the 19th century, that Indians born on a Reservation and therefore subject to tribal law were not US citizens.

Resident or visiting aliens...legal or illegal...are subject to US law and under its jurisdiction.

 

[ShootSpeeders]

[

Resident or visiting aliens...legal or illegal...are subject to US law and under its jurisdiction.

HAHAHA. That's not the kind of jurisdiction the founding fathers meant, you nitwit. It's obvious everyone in america is subject to our laws.

When a kid is born in america to a mexican mother, the kid automatically gets the citizenship of the mother, mexico. In that sense the kid is not subject to the jurisdiction of america. Congress needs to make that point.

 

[pinqy]

[

Resident or visiting aliens...legal or illegal...are subject to US law and under its jurisdiction.

HAHAHA. That's not the kind of jurisdiction the founding fathers meant, you nitwit. It's obvious everyone in america is subject to our laws.

ummm no. Those with Diplomatic Immunity are NOT under the jurisdiction of the United States. And until the Indian Citizen Act of 1924, not all Indians were citizens of the US as they were under the jurisdiction of their Tribe.

And the founding fathers did not write the 14th ammendment as they were all dead by that time.

When a kid is born in america to a mexican mother, the kid automatically gets the citizenship of the mother, mexico. In that sense the kid is not subject to the jurisdiction of america. Congress needs to make that point.

Why is he not subject to the jurisdiction of the US? Show me that law.

 

[PoliticalChic]

14A is the famous "birthright citizenship" amendment that begins

"All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside"

No one knows what the phrase "subject to the jurisdiction thereof" really means and it's been suggested we need a new constitiutional amendment to tell us. But at the end of the 14A is the phrase

"The Congress shall have power to enforce, by appropriate legislation, the provisions of this article."

This means congress can simply pass a law saying children born to illegals are not citizens and there is no need to go thru the lengthy amending process. It can be done overnight!

The very author of the citizenship clause, Sen. Jacob Howard of Michigan, expressly said: "This will not, of course, include persons born in the United States who are foreigners, aliens, who belong to the families of ambassadors or foreign ministers."

There is only one case adding the caveat that children born to legal permanent residents of the U.S., gainfully employed, and who were not employed by a foreign government would also be deemed citizens under the 14th Amendment. (United States v. Wong Kim Ark, 1898.)

And then, out of the blue in 1982, Justice Brennan slipped a footnote into his 5-4 opinion in Plyler v. Doe, asserting that "no plausible distinction with respect to Fourteenth Amendment 'jurisdiction' can be drawn between resident aliens whose entry into the United States was lawful, and resident aliens whose entry was unlawful." (Other than the part about one being lawful and the other not.)

Brennan's authority for this lunatic statement was that it appeared in a 1912 book written by Clement L. Bouve.

So on one hand we have the history, the objective, the author's intent and 100 years of history of the 14th Amendment, which says that the 14th Amendment does not confer citizenship on children born to illegal immigrants.
Ann Coulter - Official Home Page

 

[PoliticalChic]

There is no Supreme Court decision squarely holding that children of illegal aliens are automatically citizens of the U.S.

 

[pinqy]

The very author of the citizenship clause, Sen. Jacob Howard of Michigan, expressly said: "This will not, of course, include persons born in the United States who are foreigners, aliens, who belong to the families of ambassadors or foreign ministers."

Right, and no one is claiming it does. But an illegal immigrant does not belong to the family of an ambassador or foreign minister.

There is only one case adding the caveat that children born to legal permanent residents of the U.S., gainfully employed, and who were not employed by a foreign government would also be deemed citizens under the 14th Amendment. (United States v. Wong Kim Ark, 1898.)

But they didn't explicitly exclude anyone, either.

 

[Againsheila]

14A is the famous "birthright citizenship" amendment that begins

"All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside"

No one knows what the phrase "subject to the jurisdiction thereof" really means

Sure we do. It means that children born to those with diplomatic immunity are not citizens and it meant, in the 19th century, that Indians born on a Reservation and therefore subject to tribal law were not US citizens.

Resident or visiting aliens...legal or illegal...are subject to US law and under its jurisdiction.

If that's true, why is it we are required to inform the Mexican embassy whenever we arrest a Mexican?

 

[pinqy]

There is no Supreme Court decision squarely holding that children of illegal aliens are automatically citizens of the U.S.

Shall we turn to author's intent? I note that you do not full quote Sen Howard. His full sentance was

This will not, of course, include persons born in the United States who are foreigners, aliens, who belong to the families of ambassadors or foreign ministers accredited to the Government of the United stase, but will include every other class of persons.

He did later clarify on the subject of Indians:

Indians born within the limits fo the United Staes, and who maintain their tribal relations, are not, in the sense of this ammendment, born subject to the jurisdiction of the United States. They are regarded, and always have been in our legislation and jurisprudence, as being quasi foreign nations.

But those are the only two exceptions I can find. It was explicitly stated that the children of Chinese nationals (and by implication all other immigrants excepting ambassadors and diplomats) would be born US citizens.

 

[pinqy]

14A is the famous "birthright citizenship" amendment that begins

"All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside"

No one knows what the phrase "subject to the jurisdiction thereof" really means

Sure we do. It means that children born to those with diplomatic immunity are not citizens and it meant, in the 19th century, that Indians born on a Reservation and therefore subject to tribal law were not US citizens.

Resident or visiting aliens...legal or illegal...are subject to US law and under its jurisdiction.

If that's true, why is it we are required to inform the Mexican embassy whenever we arrest a Mexican?

Because of the possibility of expelling them from the US. Informing a foreign government that one of its citizens has committed a crime does not mean that foreign citizen is not under US jurisdiction. Or are you claiming that a Canadian tourist cannot be prosecuted for a crime?

 

[jwoodie]

14A is the famous "birthright citizenship" amendment that begins

"All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside"

No one knows what the phrase "subject to the jurisdiction thereof" really means and it's been suggested we need a new constitiutional amendment to tell us. But at the end of the 14A is the phrase

"The Congress shall have power to enforce, by appropriate legislation, the provisions of this article."

This means congress can simply pass a law saying children born to illegals are not citizens and there is no need to go thru the lengthy amending process. It can be done overnight!

Correct, and Congress has previously exercised this power by legislating that children born to US military personnel overseas (e.g., John McCain) are natural born citizens.

 

[ShootSpeeders]

There is no Supreme Court decision squarely holding that children of illegal aliens are automatically citizens of the U.S.

Yes - it's just a stupid custom we have in america. And if the SC was to so rule, states should nullify the ruling. Time we stopped this tyranny of the unelected supreme court.

 

[JakeStarkey]

[

Resident or visiting aliens...legal or illegal...are subject to US law and under its jurisdiction.

HAHAHA. That's not the kind of jurisdiction the founding fathers meant, you nitwit. It's obvious everyone in america is subject to our laws.

When a kid is born in america to a mexican mother, the kid automatically gets the citizenship of the mother, mexico. In that sense the kid is not subject to the jurisdiction of america. Congress needs to make that point.

The Founders don't count on this. The 14th Amendment was ratified after the Civil War, long after the Founders were dead. The point has been made and Congress won't ever let such a proposal out of committee.

You want to alienate the Hispanic vote entirely and keep the GOP in the minority forever?

 

[ShootSpeeders]

Informing a foreign government that one of its citizens has committed a crime does not mean that foreign citizen is not under US jurisdiction. Or are you claiming that a Canadian tourist cannot be prosecuted for a crime?

That's a different kind of jurisdiction from the type mentioned in the 14A. How many times must we explain this to you.?

 

[JakeStarkey]

Because, Shoot Speeders, you don't understand the 14th or the consequences of your suggestion.

 

[ShootSpeeders]

[ The point has been made and Congress won't ever let such a proposal out of committee.

You want to alienate the Hispanic vote entirely and keep the GOP in the minority forever?

GOP is gonna lose the white vote if they don't stop birthright citizenship. I'm sick of hearing about how only the hispanic vote is important.

 

[ShootSpeeders]

Because, Shoot Speeders, you don't understand the 14th or the consequences of your suggestion.

HAHAHA. You call that an argument.? Thanks for admitting i'm right.

 

[JakeStarkey]

[ The point has been made and Congress won't ever let such a proposal out of committee.

You want to alienate the Hispanic vote entirely and keep the GOP in the minority forever?

GOP is gonna lose the white vote if they don't stop birthright citizenship. I'm sick of hearing about how only the hispanic vote is important.

The 42% of whites who voted Dem have no problem with the Hispanic vote. The Dem whites want ALL the Hispanic vote, and you are going to give it to them with this nonsense.

 

[JakeStarkey]

Because, Shoot Speeders, you don't understand the 14th or the consequences of your suggestion.

HAHAHA. You call that an argument.? Thanks for admitting i'm right.

You admitted you are wrong. You don't understand the consequences.

And the Founders' opinion have nothing to do with the 14th Amendment.