Import Certificates Vs. Tariffs

[Supposn]

Import Certificates Vs. Tariffs:

I’m a proponent of USA could adopt an Import Tariff policy as described in the Wikipedia article entitled “Import Certificates”.
Refer to:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Import_certificates

The subject of tariffs often arises within discussions of Import Certificates.

Comparisons between tariffs and import certificate policies:

Both tariffs and import certificate proposals would require importers of goods surrender something’s of value to the U.S. government before their goods are enabled to enter the USA. Tariffs can as the Import Certificate policy is to be drafted in a manner to be no greater than self-funding; (i.e. providing government with no net revenue).
Within both trade policies the values of what importers are surrendering (and thus the additional expense to the importers) are proportionally related to approximate values of their shipments being brought into the USA and those additional expenses are passed on to the eventual purchasers of imported goods.


Within an Import Certificate policy an exporter of USA goods is entitled, (i.e. not required) to choose to pay the federal fees that enable them to acquire transferable Import Certificates with face values equal to the assessed values of their USA export shipments. If they do not pay the fee, their shipments are not assessed and no certificates are issued.

Certificates with face values sufficient to cover the assessed values of goods imported into the USA must be surrendered before import shipments are permitted to enter our nation. Surrendered certificates are cancelled. This policy is an indirect but effective subsidy of USA’s exported goods.


Regardless of the transferable import certificates price rates within global markets, (i.e. even if the additional costs for importers to bring their shipment into the USA would be only a penny, USA’s annual trade deficits of goods would be entirely or almost entirely eliminated.

No tariff policy could provide such an assurance with any certainty but any tariff policy that could feasibly attempt it would have to be of the most extremely high tariff rates to be passed on to USA purchasers of imported goods. Such drastically high rates would almost entirely eliminate imported goods from USA’s domestic markets.


Because the Import Certificate policy is substantially market driven, if within the USA there exists an effective demand for any foreign item (that’s legally importable), that market demand will be satisfied.


Respectfully. Supposn

 

[Grandma]

I think a lot of jobs would come back here if there were a bill passed that would force outsourcing businesses to pay workers in whatever country they're in the highest US state minimum wage, with overtime as applicable.

That's all that Congress has to do.

 

[midcan5]

Whenever bureaucracy enters the picture people and countries cheat abuse or ignore, never works. Americans can could but will not fix their own nation's weak economic areas as often it is in their interest to cheat abuse or ignore. Wanna fix it. Buy American, buy from American companies who design develop manufacturer in the US of A. Kinda simple.

One Example of American Workers Growing Despair; We Need OUR Jobs to Stay Here!
So now that republicans have full control, HOW will they address the following issues?
What About The Unions?

[repost] When Japan and China manipulate their monetary system to provide lower prices, then you have problems. In terms of work, I'll link two sites below that give a sense of auto work and how much your car benefits your nation's workers. (pass them on) After housing, automobiles are big sale and profit items. People also forget or miss automation and technology advances. When I started work, technology was mechanical, today it is often automated. Where fifty people once worked to provide a service, now only a few do the same work. Americans need to copy Japan's keiretsu, a system in which they collaborate rather than pretend some imaginary market god is in control. It's kinda funny that Americans buy cars made in German, Korea, and Japanese unions and then castigate their own. Shows you how much corporate propaganda controls the American mind.

Support America: 2015

http://www.levelfieldinstitute.org

Pass it on buy American made in America.

 

[Syriusly]

How much extra are you personally willing to pay in order to create jobs for other people?

This is not a flippant question.

What you are proposing might well work, and would certainly enrich exporters, and would benefit those directly- and indirectly employed in export industries- but it would cost all Americans more in terms of what we pay for articles. If you are a farmer, an oil worker or a company that exports tractors- you will probably come out ahead. If you are a motel worker in Los Angeles, you will probably end up paying more for most of what you buy.

In my particular case, I would end up personally paying more, and my company(a net importer) would suffer- perhaps even go out of business. There would be winners and losers.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

“Import Certificates”.

Bad idea.

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

I’m a proponent of USA could adopt an Import Tariff policy

typical liberal wants to tax Americans more to violently force them to buy American made products that would then cost far more than imported products and be of lower quality. And this is just one 1000 soviet interventions the typical liberals wants.

 

[Supposn]

I’m a proponent of USA could adopt an Import Tariff policy

typical liberal wants to tax Americans more to violently force them to buy American made products that would then cost far more than imported products and be of lower quality. And this is just one 1000 soviet interventions the typical liberals wants.

Edward Baiamonte, your post at best is typical extremist hyperbolizing; your writing reveals deliberate ignorance if you haven’t read and considered Wikipedia’s description of an Import Certificate policy or an inability to comprehend what’s written.
The “violence” or the “forcing” persons to behave contrary to their own wills that you perceive to be integral to proposed Import Certificate policy for USA’s global trade is entirely due to your imagination.

USA’s adoption of the Import Certificate policy would effectively eliminate USA’s annual trade deficits of goods, and more than otherwise increase our GDP, numbers of jobs and median wage. Rather than being a net source of tax revenue, the policy behaves as an indirect but effective subsidy of prices to foreign purchasers of USA exported goods.

All the trade policy’s net direct costs are passed on to USA purchasers of imported goods. The substantially market (rather than entirely government) driven trade policy could not halt the importation of any item for which there’s an effective demand among USA consumers of goods.

Respectfully, Supposn

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

I’m a proponent of USA could adopt an Import Tariff policy

typical liberal wants to tax Americans more to violently force them to buy American made products that would then cost far more than imported products and be of lower quality. And this is just one 1000 soviet interventions the typical liberals wants.

Edward Baiamonte, your post at best is typical extremist hyperbolizing; your writing reveals deliberate ignorance if you haven’t read and considered Wikipedia’s description of an Import Certificate policy or an inability to comprehend what’s written.
The “violence” or the “forcing” persons to behave contrary to their own wills that you perceive to be integral to proposed Import Certificate policy for USA’s global trade is entirely due to your imagination.

USA’s adoption of the Import Certificate policy would effectively eliminate USA’s annual trade deficits of goods, and more than otherwise increase our GDP, numbers of jobs and median wage. Rather than being a net source of tax revenue, the policy behaves as an indirect but effective subsidy of prices to foreign purchasers of USA exported goods.

All the trade policy’s net direct costs are passed on to USA purchasers of imported goods. The substantially market (rather than entirely government) driven trade policy could not halt the importation of any item for which there’s an effective demand among USA consumers of goods.

Respectfully, Supposn

All the trade policy’s net direct costs are passed on to USA purchasers of imported goods.

Yes, reducing our standard of living, brilliant idea!!

 

[Supposn]

All the trade policy’s net direct costs are passed on to USA purchasers of imported goods.

Yes, reducing our standard of living, brilliant idea!!

ToddsterPatriot, we all benefit from cheaper imported goods but they do not compensate for USA’s chronic annual trade deficits net detriments to our annual gross domestic productions and our numbers of jobs; these in turn are net financially detrimental to USA’s aggregate employees and their dependents.

USA’s chronic trade deficits of goods are a substantially contributing cause of our median wage’s purchasing power’s malaise; (i.e. contributing cause of our less than otherwise standard of living).

Respectfully, Supposn

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

All the trade policy’s net direct costs are passed on to USA purchasers of imported goods.

Yes, reducing our standard of living, brilliant idea!!

ToddsterPatriot, we all benefit from cheaper imported goods but they do not compensate for USA’s chronic annual trade deficits net detriments to our annual gross domestic productions and our numbers of jobs; these in turn are net financially detrimental to USA’s aggregate employees and their dependents.

USA’s chronic trade deficits of goods are a substantially contributing cause of our median wage’s purchasing power’s malaise; (i.e. contributing cause of our less than otherwise standard of living).

Respectfully, Supposn

we all benefit from cheaper imported goods but they do not compensate for USA’s chronic annual trade deficits net detriments to our annual gross domestic productions

Those deficits come back as investments which are a net plus for our annual gross domestic productions.

 

[Supposn]

we all benefit from cheaper imported goods but they do not compensate for USA’s chronic annual trade deficits net detriments to our annual gross domestic productions

Those deficits come back as investments which are a net plus for our annual gross domestic productions.

ToddsterPatriot, we often encountered that rationalization to excuse trade deficits’ detriment to their nation’s GDPs.

It's not trade deficits but rather more robust economies that promote investment within individual nations. Investment from foreign sources are no more beneficial than those from domestic sources. USA’s trade deficits are net detrimental to our GDP, consequentially they’re net detrimental to the investment rate within our nation.

Respectfully, Supposn

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

we all benefit from cheaper imported goods but they do not compensate for USA’s chronic annual trade deficits net detriments to our annual gross domestic productions

Those deficits come back as investments which are a net plus for our annual gross domestic productions.

ToddsterPatriot, we often encountered that rationalization to excuse trade deficits’ detriment to their nation’s GDPs.

It's not trade deficits but rather more robust economies that promote investment within individual nations. Investment from foreign sources are no more beneficial than those from domestic sources. USA’s trade deficits are net detrimental to our GDP, consequentially they’re net detrimental to the investment rate within our nation.

Respectfully, Supposn

Investment from foreign sources are no more beneficial than those from domestic sources.

Investment from foreign sources are no less beneficial than those from domestic sources.

USA’s trade deficits are net detrimental to our GDP, consequentially they’re net detrimental to the investment rate within our nation.

Higher prices for consumer goods are net detrimental to our GDP, consequentially they’re net detrimental to the investment rate within our nation.

 

[Supposn]

All the trade policy’s net direct costs are passed on to USA purchasers of imported goods.

Yes, reducing our standard of living, brilliant idea!!

ToddsterPatriot, we all benefit from cheaper imported goods but they do not compensate for USA’s chronic annual trade deficits net detriments to our annual gross domestic productions and our numbers of jobs; these in turn are net financially detrimental to USA’s aggregate employees and their dependents.

USA’s chronic trade deficits of goods are a substantially contributing cause of our median wage’s purchasing power’s malaise; (i.e. contributing cause of our less than otherwise standard of living).

Respectfully, Supposn

we all benefit from cheaper imported goods but they do not compensate for USA’s chronic annual trade deficits net detriments to our annual gross domestic productions

Those deficits come back as investments which are a net plus for our annual gross domestic productions.

 

[Supposn]

Higher prices for consumer goods are net detrimental to our GDP, consequentially they’re net detrimental to the investment rate within our nation.

 

[Supposn]

Higher prices for consumer goods are net detrimental to our GDP, consequentially they’re net detrimental to the investment rate within our nation.

ToddsterPatriot, USA’s adoption of the Import Certificate policy would effectively eliminate our chronic annual trade deficits of goods while increasing our GDP and numbers of jobs more than otherwise. To any extent that the increased prices of imports to USA purchasers exceeds our federal government’s direct expenditures due to the policy, it behaves as an indirect subsidy of USA’s exported goods. These are USA’s economic advantages due to this proposed trade policy.


there are no net direct federal expenditures due to this policy because all the policies net costs are passed on to USA purchasers of imported goods; certainly, the price increases of imported goods paid by USA purchasers would be detrimental to our economy.

But USA’s annual trade deficits cheaper import prices do not compensate for our trade deficits consequential effect upon our numbers of jobs which in turn are net financially detrimental upon USA’s aggregate employees and their families.

The economic values of the afore mentioned advantages due to the proposed trade policy far exceed the detrimental effects of higher import goods’ prices to USA purchasers. The policy would be of net economic advantage to our nation.


Respectfully, Supposn

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Higher prices for consumer goods are net detrimental to our GDP, consequentially they’re net detrimental to the investment rate within our nation.

ToddsterPatriot, USA’s adoption of the Import Certificate policy would effectively eliminate our chronic annual trade deficits of goods while increasing our GDP and numbers of jobs more than otherwise. To any extent that the increased prices of imports to USA purchasers exceeds our federal government’s direct expenditures due to the policy, it behaves as an indirect subsidy of USA’s exported goods. These are USA’s economic advantages due to this proposed trade policy.


there are no net direct federal expenditures due to this policy because all the policies net costs are passed on to USA purchasers of imported goods; certainly, the price increases of imported goods paid by USA purchasers would be detrimental to our economy.

But USA’s annual trade deficits cheaper import prices do not compensate for our trade deficits consequential effect upon our numbers of jobs which in turn are net financially detrimental upon USA’s aggregate employees and their families.

The economic values of the afore mentioned advantages due to the proposed trade policy far exceed the detrimental effects of higher import goods’ prices to USA purchasers. The policy would be of net economic advantage to our nation.


Respectfully, Supposn

ToddsterPatriot, USA’s adoption of the Import Certificate policy would effectively eliminate our chronic annual trade deficits of goods

And greatly increase the prices we pay for the things we buy.

while increasing our GDP and numbers of jobs more than otherwise.

I don't think you can prove that.

 

[Supposn]

ToddsterPatriot, USA’s adoption of the Import Certificate policy would effectively eliminate our chronic annual trade deficits of goods while increasing our GDP and numbers of jobs more than otherwise.

I don't think you can prove that.

Trade balances effects upon their nation's GDPs:
Exports directly contribute and imports directly reduce their nation's balance of trade (i.e. net exports). A trade surplus is positive net balance of trade, and a trade deficit is a negative net balance of trade. Due to balance of trade being explicitly added to the calculation of their nation's gross domestic product using the expenditure method of calculating gross domestic production (i.e. GDP), trade surpluses are contributions and trade deficits are "drags" upon their nation's GDP.

Refer to:
Balance of trade - Wikipedia
http://www.investopedia.com/terms/e/expenditure-method.asp
http://www.bea.gov/methodologies/index.htm#national_meth
http://www.britannica.com/topic/gross-domestic-product

ToddsterPatriot, are you contending that increasing USA’s GDP by eliminating our chronic trade deficits of goods would not increase USA jobs more than otherwise? (Otherwise being if we did not increase our GDP by enacting the Import certificate policy for our global trade).

Respectfully, Supposn

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

ToddsterPatriot, USA’s adoption of the Import Certificate policy would effectively eliminate our chronic annual trade deficits of goods while increasing our GDP and numbers of jobs more than otherwise.

I don't think you can prove that.

Trade balances effects upon their nation's GDPs:
Exports directly contribute and imports directly reduce their nation's balance of trade (i.e. net exports). A trade surplus is positive net balance of trade, and a trade deficit is a negative net balance of trade. Due to balance of trade being explicitly added to the calculation of their nation's gross domestic product using the expenditure method of calculating gross domestic production (i.e. GDP), trade surpluses are contributions and trade deficits are "drags" upon their nation's GDP.

Refer to:
Balance of trade - Wikipedia
http://www.investopedia.com/terms/e/expenditure-method.asp
http://www.bea.gov/methodologies/index.htm#national_meth
http://www.britannica.com/topic/gross-domestic-product

ToddsterPatriot, are you contending that increasing USA’s GDP by eliminating our chronic trade deficits of goods would not increase USA jobs more than otherwise? (Otherwise being if we did not increase our GDP by enacting the Import certificate policy for our global trade).

Respectfully, Supposn

Exports directly contribute and imports directly reduce their nation's balance of trade

I know the damn GDP formula.

ToddsterPatriot, are you contending that increasing USA’s GDP by eliminating our chronic trade deficits of goods would not increase USA jobs more than otherwise?

That would depend. We could have a massive recession which would reduce the trade deficit.
Would that be a good idea?
If the only input into GDP (and jobs) was the level of our trade deficit/surplus, you'd have a point.
Simplistic thinking like that tends not to work when implemented in the real world.
Reduced availability of certain goods with higher (or much higher) prices as a result will clearly
reduce our living standards.
Less money available to buy other goods will clearly result in fewer jobs in some areas.

Certificate policy would effectively eliminate our chronic annual trade deficits of goods while increasing our GDP and numbers of jobs more than otherwise.

Allow me to repeat myself. I don't think you can prove that.

 

[Supposn]

Excerpted from this discussion thread’s 10:21 PM post of December 6, 2016: USA’s adoption of the Import Certificate policy would effectively eliminate USA’s annual trade deficits of goods, and more than otherwise increase our GDP, numbers of jobs and median wage. Rather than being a net source of tax revenue, the policy behaves as an indirect but effective subsidy of prices to foreign purchasers of USA exported goods

Exports directly contribute and imports directly reduce their nation's balance of trade

I know the damn GDP formula.

ToddsterPatriot, are you contending that increasing USA’s GDP by eliminating our chronic trade deficits of goods would not increase USA jobs more than otherwise?

That would depend. We could have a massive recession which would reduce the trade deficit.
Would that be a good idea?
If the only input into GDP (and jobs) was the level of our trade deficit/surplus, you'd have a point.
Simplistic thinking like that tends not to work when implemented in the real world. ...

ToddsterPatriot, no one has contended that a reduction of USA’s trade deficit without regard for the manner with which it’s reduced, would ALWAYS increase USA’s GDP and numbers of jobs.

I’ve stated (in this post, in others within other threads and often within other internet groups), “USA’s adoption of the Import Certificate policy would effectively eliminate USA’s annual trade deficits of goods, and more than otherwise increase our GDP, numbers of jobs and median wage”.

[I suppose that there are other methods to accomplish the same thing but I’m among the proponents of this Import Certificate proposal because I believe it to be the superior method to accomplish its purpose].

In the case of a nation that’s experiencing annual trade deficits trade deficits while also enjoying “full employment” there’s little that an Import Certificate policy could do to further improve its economy. I don’t believe USA has ever had an annual trade deficit and full employment within the same year. I suppose it may never had been the case for any nation.

The statement regarding increases of GDP, numbers of jobs and their median wage is qualified by the term “more than otherwise”; (otherwise being if the USA continues to seek “pure” free trade).
That means that due to USA adopting this Import Certificate policy, (regardless of the nation’s economic condition during any year), our GDP and numbers of jobs would be greater that year due to this trade policy we had adopted.

Your comments regarding the nation’s economic condition is some actual or hypothetical year is not applicable to this discussion. Other than at times of “full employment”, the Import Certificate policy would be of net economic benefit to our nation in all years.

Respectfully, Supposn

 

[Onyx]

ToddsterPatriot, we all benefit from cheaper imported goods but they do not compensate for USA’s chronic annual trade deficits net detriments to our annual gross domestic productions and our numbers of jobs; these in turn are net financially detrimental to USA’s aggregate employees and their dependents.

Trade deficits have no intrinsic bearing on GDP or employment. You can have a negative trade deficit and still be producing, since trade is conducted with the goal of making money, and not losing it.