The dark side of free trade with China ...

[CultureCitizen]

"Elements of China’s military, state, business, and academia have been interwoven over decades and organized around one goal: stealing secrets from the West. This regime of theft takes with impunity, powering China’s economy and high-tech military, while robbing the United States alone of trillions in value each year."

EXCLUSIVE: How Hacking and Espionage Fuel China's Growth

Addendum:

... While NAFTA was a mistake, at least I don't picture Canada or Mexico stealing technology from the US in such a massive scale.

If Trump really wants to "make America great again" addressing this issue should be his number one priority.

 

[william the wie]

The cost to the US would be minimal to break with China.

 

[waltky]

Granny says, "Dat's right...

... what dey gonna do `bout all our debt dey got...

... foreclose on us?"

 

[CultureCitizen]

The cost to the US would be minimal to break with China.

I'm not talking about breaking with China, but rather to halt flagrant piracy.

 

[william the wie]

It's too deeply embedded in the economy.

 

[CultureCitizen]

It's too deeply embedded in the economy.

Then maybe a little quid pro quo?

 

[william the wie]

What kind of Chinese secrets do we need?

 

[CultureCitizen]

What kind of Chinese secrets do we need?

Biotech and pharma mostly.

China: The next biotech superpower?

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

"Elements of China’s military, state, business, and academia have been interwoven over decades and organized around one goal: stealing secrets from the West. This regime of theft takes with impunity, powering China’s economy and high-tech military, while robbing the United States alone of trillions in value each year."

EXCLUSIVE: How Hacking and Espionage Fuel China's Growth

Addendum:

... While NAFTA was a mistake, at least I don't picture Canada or Mexico stealing technology from the US in such a massive scale.

If Trump really wants to "make America great again" addressing this issue should be his number one priority.

I doubt it.
1) China does not have one company that leads an industry. They are way behind South Korea Formosa Japan etc at similar points in their development.

2) Stealing secrets prevents you from developing your own so would cripple their economy

3) If something is worth having it is worth protecting .American companies are free to protect their secrets

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

The cost to the US would be minimal to break with China.

cost would be huge. Walmart alone saved Americans $350 billion in last 10 years.

 

[Treeshepherd]

Piracy is one aspect of the fact that we're already in a trade war with China.

We've already got a tit for tat tariff war over "dumped" Chinese steel. Obama put a 500+℅ tariff on some of their steel products.

I'm not opposed to tariffs, but they need to be more uniform and cohesive.

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

Piracy is one aspect of the fact that we're already in a trade war with China.

We've already got a tit for tat tariff war over "dumped" Chinese steel. Obama put a 500+℅ tariff on some of their steel products.

I'm not opposed to tariffs, but they need to be more uniform and cohesive.

consumers are opposed because they raise prices and thus lower living standards.

 

[Treeshepherd]

Piracy is one aspect of the fact that we're already in a trade war with China.

We've already got a tit for tat tariff war over "dumped" Chinese steel. Obama put a 500+℅ tariff on some of their steel products.

I'm not opposed to tariffs, but they need to be more uniform and cohesive.

consumers are opposed because they raise prices and thus lower living standards.

To a point. But when China is propping up steel to keep people busy, that puts our steel mills out of business. When Mexico puts nearly a 50℅ tax on a bottle of Jack Daniels, we need to look at their rate for exporting a sixer of Corona.

I don't think it's a trade war we'd ultimately lose. The Smoot-Hawley tariff act came in the 1930's when we had a huge trade surplus. Now the situation is the inverse.

Anyway this thread is supposed to be about piracy. Sorry if I detailed it.
Piracy is an affront to free trade and should have consequences

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

I don't think it's a trade war we'd ultimately lose.

we are worlds biggest market so the world needs our rich consumers very badly. Lets hope Trump gets some fairness without a trade war

 

[CultureCitizen]

"Elements of China’s military, state, business, and academia have been interwoven over decades and organized around one goal: stealing secrets from the West. This regime of theft takes with impunity, powering China’s economy and high-tech military, while robbing the United States alone of trillions in value each year."

EXCLUSIVE: How Hacking and Espionage Fuel China's Growth

Addendum:

... While NAFTA was a mistake, at least I don't picture Canada or Mexico stealing technology from the US in such a massive scale.

If Trump really wants to "make America great again" addressing this issue should be his number one priority.

I doubt it.
1) China does not have one company that leads an industry. They are way behind South Korea Formosa Japan etc at similar points in their development.

2) Stealing secrets prevents you from developing your own so would cripple their economy

3) If something is worth having it is worth protecting .American companies are free to protect their secrets

1) If you doubt it , then read the full article , there's quite an amount of evidence there.
2)No, stealing secrets , doesn't prevent you from developing your own ...at most it reduces the incentives. Stealing secrets doesn't cripple the economy, on the contrary, wars have been won by stealing secrets.

3) That's kind of hard when the chinese army is behind the hacking; it is unfair and reduces the incentives of american companies to innovate.

It is not that I want the chinese people or companies harmed. It is simply that this cynical piracy system has to come to an end. Piracy and free trade are VERY different concepts.

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

...at most it reduces the incentives..

when you are likely to fail anyway reducing the incentives to succeed is a very very bad idea.

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

; it is unfair and reduces the incentives of american companies to innovate.

liberals reduced incentives to point where 120 million slowly starved to death. Spying is something you can protect yourself from and something that mostly hurts the spy and his country.

In any case its a trivial subject because you are afraid to tell us if you are liberal or conservative and why.

 

[CultureCitizen]

; it is unfair and reduces the incentives of american companies to innovate.

liberals reduced incentives to point where 120 million slowly starved to death. Spying is something you can protect yourself from and something that mostly hurts the spy and his country.

In any case its a trivial subject because you are afraid to tell us if you are liberal or conservative and why.

This does make me think in which side you are on ? The chinese side maybe?
I thend to think myself as a citizen of the world, and while I feel a deep respect for the great achievments done by China, I can also see that these kind of practices are unfair and would be considered illegal in many other parts of the world.
Sure , piracy helps the chinese economy , but it hurts the US.

Finally the OP is about China and piracy, not about whether I am a liberal or a conservative. That would be a topic for another thread.

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

Sure , piracy helps the chinese economy , but it hurts the US.

1) piracy probably hurts them more since at best they are stealing the past while American Republicans invent the future

2) a company is free to protect its secrets if they are valuable.