Immigration & Politics

[Freewill]

[

Do you approve of nafta?

No, I think it's a horrible treaty. But it was one that Republicans pushed, negotiated, lobbied for and got Bill Clinton to sign.

Oh..it's the republicans fault that clinton signed it.

Interesting, joe...did they hold him at gunpoint? Did they kidnap his daughter until he signed?

Did they ask him to push for it harder then anything else during his term?

 

[Freewill]

One able bodied person on welfare is never good for a country.

I agree. But I always find it amazing the Right wingers are okay with "Middle class" welfare like Unemployment Insurance, Social Security and MediCare, but are damned upset with poor people welfare like Food Stamps.

Actually you are just repeating the left wing mantra. What most on the right don't like is abuse of systems set up to help people. Thus welfare that is paid to feed people used to buy booze and drugs is abuse. THAT is what the right doesn't like about welfare. But as soon as the issue is raised the left brings in race even though most receiving welfare are not black.

 

[Rotagilla]

[

Do you approve of nafta?

No, I think it's a horrible treaty. But it was one that Republicans pushed, negotiated, lobbied for and got Bill Clinton to sign.

Oh..it's the republicans fault that clinton signed it.

Interesting, joe...did they hold him at gunpoint? Did they kidnap his daughter until he signed?

Did they ask him to push for it harder then anything else during his term?

Who cares?
Are you also saying it's the republican's fault that clinton signed it?

Nice trick there, if you could get away with it...no one is fooled, though

 

[JoeB131]

[

Do you approve of nafta?

No, I think it's a horrible treaty. But it was one that Republicans pushed, negotiated, lobbied for and got Bill Clinton to sign.

Oh..it's the republicans fault that clinton signed it.

Interesting, joe...did they hold him at gunpoint? Did they kidnap his daughter until he signed?

Did they imply they were willing to work with him on other legislative items and then play backsies when he went along.

Cleetus, you know very well your party is the party of Free Trade. Why don't you own it and embrace it.

 

[JoeB131]

Actually you are just repeating the left wing mantra. What most on the right don't like is abuse of systems set up to help people. Thus welfare that is paid to feed people used to buy booze and drugs is abuse. THAT is what the right doesn't like about welfare. But as soon as the issue is raised the left brings in race even though most receiving welfare are not black.

I didn't mention race this time, and the "booze and drugs" argument is a red herring.

Of course, if we treated substance abuse like a medical problem, we could probably fix that. Rich people go to Betty Ford and poor people are just lazy welfare drunks.

Now, I'd have no problem with replacing welfare with workfare.

 

[Rotagilla]

[

Do you approve of nafta?

No, I think it's a horrible treaty. But it was one that Republicans pushed, negotiated, lobbied for and got Bill Clinton to sign.

Oh..it's the republicans fault that clinton signed it.

Interesting, joe...did they hold him at gunpoint? Did they kidnap his daughter until he signed?

Did they imply they were willing to work with him on other legislative items and then play backsies when he went along.

So, he knowingly signed a bad law...but it's not his fault..
Ok, joe...

Cleetus, you know very well your party is the party of Free Trade. Why don't you own it and embrace it.

I'm an anarchist, joe. I haven't had a party for years.

I saw the handwriting on the wall as an impartial, non partisan observer many years ago and know that neither party works for the good of the citizens.

You hyperpartisans can't accept that fact and chatter and chirp about how bad the "other" party is.
Useful idiots is what the communists call people like you.

 

[LoneLaugher]

.

And while I'm thinking of it, here's another thing.

Why do I never see a conversation about demand? Why is no one talking about the root of this problem, the fact that so many people want to escape the shit hole down south and come here? Willing to risk their lives and the lives of their children to escape?

Seems to me that it would be in our best interest to examine that and develop a policy of working with our southern neighbors to improve conditions there.

.

Are you fucking kidding me. We signed NAFTA and there really was a sucking sound as millions of jobs went down to Mexico and it's still an overpopulated shithole.

That is why I say Clinton is the worse president in my lifetime.

bad.....worse.....worst

 

[deltex1]

What people want is a well managed immigration program that supports the needs of the country.

Too much to ask for?

 

[zeke]

.

And while I'm thinking of it, here's another thing.

Why do I never see a conversation about demand? Why is no one talking about the root of this problem, the fact that so many people want to escape the shit hole down south and come here? Willing to risk their lives and the lives of their children to escape?

Seems to me that it would be in our best interest to examine that and develop a policy of working with our southern neighbors to improve conditions there.

.

Are you fucking kidding me. We signed NAFTA and there really was a sucking sound as millions of jobs went down to Mexico and it's still an overpopulated shithole.

That is why I say Clinton is the worse president in my lifetime.

bad.....worse.....worst[/QUOTE]





Crack me up. What happened to most worstist?

 

[Moonglow]

The Tyson's plant in our town has people from Africa, Asia, Mexico, Central and South America, Europe that work in this plant in a town of 1,500. Do you think they get here by a flying carpet, no, they get here from recruiters in their country along with bulletins on the internet, newspapers and employment agencies..
Why? When there are already many folks out of work in the USA?
And why do they get a tax break to employ these people, and why do the US citizens have to pay for their move and a settlement period..???
Corporate fascism is alive and well in the USA, their silent socialism approach is parasitic in nature to their operation and their profits....It is not just Oblama but Bush, Clinton, Reagan that were the founding fathers of this travesty..Just so a few of the rich could become richer...and break the high labor costs in the US. To make her citizens pay for being to wealthy and marginalizing the elite...

wow...good post.

By now it seems obvious, except to the most rabid hyperpartisans, that all three branches of government are irredeemably corrupt, dysfunctional and infiltrated by "special" interests.

Collapse, partitioning and reconstruction.

I've been singing this song since Reagan took over and it was very obvious the corporate elite were going to make the govt. and the people pay for FDR and their expulsion from the fascist state they created in thelate 18th and early 19th century, by turning traditional thrifty Americans into the nightmare of mass consumerism...

People that disagree on this issue are not working toward the betterment of the masses but to the few and powerful...

 

[JoeB131]

I'm an anarchist, joe. I haven't had a party for years.

I saw the handwriting on the wall as an impartial, non partisan observer many years ago and know that neither party works for the good of the citizens.

You hyperpartisans can't accept that fact and chatter and chirp about how bad the "other" party is.
Useful idiots is what the communists call people like you.

Well, you are an anarchist.

thing was, I was a republican for a very long time. The GOP went wrong when they stopped being a party of good government and started pandering to gun toting, bible thumping nuts like you.

 

[Seawytch]

That has nothing to do with it. You get yet another A+ for missing the point entirely.

Congrats, Job.

I've finally determined that the intellectual capacity just isn't there.

Not one moment of thought given to wage structure.

.

If you support capitalism you support the rich to exploit the poorer against the poor...

Your perception of capitalism.

I know how much you folks dislike it, I get it.

.

Since I am an entrepreneur/self employed business owner, you don't know shit from shinola....I am the one doing the hiring and the last person I would hire is an illegal.

As a business owner with +/- 80 business owner clients - with whom I work very closely on their finances - I do happen to know shit from shinola.

And these five million are no longer going to be illegal.

That's the whole point.

.

Neither will they be full US citizens. They will, however, start paying more taxes instead of working "under the table".

So Mac, do you support the enforcement of immigration laws?

Yes, once the dust has settled.

If what Obama is doing is simply granting legal, work permit status on these people, I don't think there is a better option.

If this is a political move, and the Democrats are merely doing this to change the rules again and make these people voters, not so much. And since I assign politicians and partisan ideologues exactly zero trust or credibility, I'm not thrilled with any of this.

Yes, I think any country should have complete control of its borders. And once these people are given work permit status, we need to make it clear that we are re-booting the laws and will begin to enforce them like any other sovereign country.

.

I, too, believe we should have control of our borders and I strongly support immigration reform to deal with the millions of people already here. I find it interesting that you support some laws and not others, but like to call others out on their lack of support for immigration laws....very interesting indeed.

 

[Mac1958]

I, too, believe we should have control of our borders and I strongly support immigration reform to deal with the millions of people already here. I find it interesting that you support some laws and not others, but like to call others out on their lack of support for immigration laws....very interesting indeed.

Like what?

.

 

[Moonglow]

[

Do you approve of nafta?

No, I think it's a horrible treaty. But it was one that Republicans pushed, negotiated, lobbied for and got Bill Clinton to sign.

Oh..it's the republicans fault that clinton signed it.

Interesting, joe...did they hold him at gunpoint? Did they kidnap his daughter until he signed?

Did they ask him to push for it harder then anything else during his term?

No, it was an issue that politicians knew would not go well with labor unions and workers in genera,so it had to be slowly introduced and kept on the stove for years before it was ready to cook...NAFTA took over a decade from the introduction from Reagan to the signing by Clinton...
Do you think that what a politician or even a business man states in public is really his true intentions, or is it a mask to fool those listening?

 

[Moonglow]

I, too, believe we should have control of our borders and I strongly support immigration reform to deal with the millions of people already here. I find it interesting that you support some laws and not others, but like to call others out on their lack of support for immigration laws....very interesting indeed.

Like what?

.

Death Ray-guns for trespassers...

 

[Rotagilla]

.

And while I'm thinking of it, here's another thing.

Why do I never see a conversation about demand? Why is no one talking about the root of this problem, the fact that so many people want to escape the shit hole down south and come here? Willing to risk their lives and the lives of their children to escape?

Seems to me that it would be in our best interest to examine that and develop a policy of working with our southern neighbors to improve conditions there.

.

Are you fucking kidding me. We signed NAFTA and there really was a sucking sound as millions of jobs went down to Mexico and it's still an overpopulated shithole.

That is why I say Clinton is the worse president in my lifetime.

bad.....worse.....worst[/QUOTE]





Crack me up. What happened to most worstist?

I'm an anarchist, joe. I haven't had a party for years.

I saw the handwriting on the wall as an impartial, non partisan observer many years ago and know that neither party works for the good of the citizens.

You hyperpartisans can't accept that fact and chatter and chirp about how bad the "other" party is.
Useful idiots is what the communists call people like you.

Well, you are an anarchist.

thing was, I was a republican for a very long time. The GOP went wrong when they stopped being a party of good government and started pandering to gun toting, bible thumping nuts like you.

sure joe..whatever you say..slip some more ad homs in and dodge the topic...how original, joe.

You forgot to call me "cletus", joe.

 

[LoneLaugher]

I, too, believe we should have control of our borders and I strongly support immigration reform to deal with the millions of people already here. I find it interesting that you support some laws and not others, but like to call others out on their lack of support for immigration laws....very interesting indeed.

Like what?

.

Uh oh! He's got you now!! You won't find any evidence of Mac not supporting certain laws.

Mac doesn't make declarative statements. He just nuzzles up to freaks and idiots on here so he can be a shadow of his true self.....but never gave to answer for it.

He's clean as a whistle.

 

[Rotagilla]

I, too, believe we should have control of our borders and I strongly support immigration reform to deal with the millions of people already here. I find it interesting that you support some laws and not others, but like to call others out on their lack of support for immigration laws....very interesting indeed.

Like what?

.

Uh oh! He's got you now!! You won't find any evidence of Mac not supporting certain laws.

Mac doesn't make declarative statements. He just nuzzles up to freaks and idiots on here so he can be a shadow of his true self.....but never gave to answer for it.

He's clean as a whistle.

evasion and ad homs

Well, that's it then. You win the debate with that wily tactic.

 

[Freewill]

.

And while I'm thinking of it, here's another thing.

Why do I never see a conversation about demand? Why is no one talking about the root of this problem, the fact that so many people want to escape the shit hole down south and come here? Willing to risk their lives and the lives of their children to escape?

Seems to me that it would be in our best interest to examine that and develop a policy of working with our southern neighbors to improve conditions there.

.

Are you fucking kidding me. We signed NAFTA and there really was a sucking sound as millions of jobs went down to Mexico and it's still an overpopulated shithole.

That is why I say Clinton is the worse president in my lifetime.

bad.....worse.....worst[/QUOTE]





Crack me up. What happened to most worstist?

Ah, if that is the worst thing I ever post I am pretty lucky.

 

[JoeB131]

sure joe..whatever you say..slip some more ad homs in and dodge the topic...how original, joe.

You forgot to call me "cletus", joe.

I think it goes without saying at this point, Cleetus.