Illegal Immigration - The next great national debate?

[☭proletarian☭]

I meant all illegal immigrants, sorry.

They should not all be treated as potential terrorists because crossing the border (even illegally) is not a sign that they're terrorists. It's that simple.

Also I want a source that most people in prison in border states are illegals.

Why?

Who claimed that?

You're proving yourself a lying sack of shit again.

Try reading other people's posts

The irony...

What we are talking about here is illegal immigration. Illegal immigrants, by definition, are illegal. They are thumbing their noses at our laws, and a disproportionate percentage of prisoners in our prisons, especially in the border states, are illegals that committed worse crimes than crossing the border illegally.

So it's technically not most as in >50% but close enough.

I get the distinct impression that you're illiterate as well as stupid.

 

[Founder]

HERE IS THE SOLUTION...

1. Increase our birthrate of the Best and Brightest among us, and stop subsidizing the birthrate of our worst and dumbest which we do in hundreds of ways, and surely STOP subsidizing the birthrate of the worst and dumbest in loser nations.

2. Provide sufficient punishment for illegal entry that no one would even think of it. I would suggest 5 years at hard labor, for the first offense, 10 years for the second offense, and 20 years for the third offense. These people come here for money, so making them work their butts off for nothing for 5 years will be sufficient to deter them from ever setting foot here illegally.

With those kinds of penalties in place we could dismantle all our vast expensive border force and expensive check points. By hard labor, I'm talking about chained ankles and non-stop work 12 hours a day, 7 days a week, 365 days a year.

THEN when we release them you wouldn't even have to deport them. They would run for the border and dive across on their own. They would generously be given 20 days to get across some border, and if they were caught here after that they would be arrested and get the next highest sentence and so on. That deterrence alone will totally cure anyone from coming here illegally.

3. Then, if we need them, bring in people who must have very high job skills that we clearly need, and that have at least a BA and the money to take care of any of their needs, and/or 5 to 10 million dollars to add to our economy.

4. Meanwhile, while this is working itself out, NO services of any sort for any reason, even emergency medical care for any other than citizens. All green carders and such would have 3 months to qualify to become citizens, or out they go. Everyone here must qualify to be a citizen or out they go.

5. Make it very hard to marry foreigners, and if anyone does marry one, they can never bring in any relatives of the spouse.

6. Five years in prison for anyone who aids and abets any illegal immigration of any sort.

7. No flying or showing any flag of any nation other than our own on our soil. One year at hard labor for doing this.

8. No public speaking in any language other than English, UNLESS the person in question can show they are proficient in English by testing. One year of hard labor for this.

9. NO rights of citizenship of any sort for anyone who is not an adult American citizen. No trial by jury, or any other right.

10. No rights of citizenship for any convicted felon. Such people would be encouraged to leave the country to wherever will accept them. They are not welcome here.

This is not a perfect list and can be improved upon, but it is a beginning. It would be a good start on our problems in this area.

I like a lot of your suggestions here, but some seem a bit on the extreme side. Are there any you would moderate in any way or would you be prepared to defend each point?

These are just my initial proposals. Anything is negotiable. I'm just trying to get us headed more toward self-interest AS A NATION, and away from the direction that Democrats always take us toward sacrificing American blood, principles and treasure to serve the national interests of other nations and peoples, not to speak of our own parasitical bums and criminals at all levels of society, (mostly all card carrying Democrats.)

 

[Angelhair]

ICE leads nationwide operation to disrupt transnational gangs

Project Big Freeze focused on hotbeds of gang activity in 83 cities around the country in the largest U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE)-led enforcement operation targeting transnational gangs with ties to drug trafficking organizations.

From Jan. 17-24, after two months of intelligence- and information-gathering, ICE, together with more than 115 other federal, state and local law enforcement partners, identified, located and put behind bars 447 gang members and seized 45 firearms. An additional 65 individuals were arrested on federal and/or state criminal violations, including administrative immigration violations.

Law enforcement officials targeted members from 28 transnational street gangs, many of whom not only traffic in drugs and firearms but also commit murder, rape, robbery and a host of other crimes in perpetuating and furthering their criminal enterprises. ICE conducted the bold sweep to "rid our streets not only of drug dealers, but the violence associated with the drug trade," said ICE Assistant Secretary John Morton.

In a press conference held at ICE's Potomac Center North headquarters building on Jan. 27, Assistant Secretary Morton said, "The significance of this operation is not just its size. It also reflects how powerful cooperation between federal and local law enforcement can be."

Dallas Police Department's Assistant Chief Charles M. Cato also spoke to conference attendees. He credited the reduced number of homicides in Dallas in the past five years (248 in 2004 compared to 166 in 2009) to law enforcement programs, such as ICE's Operation Community Shield (OCS), which was initiated in 2005. Through OCS, ICE, in collaboration with our federal, state, local, tribal and foreign law enforcement partners, combats transnational criminal street gangs using ICE's unique administrative and statutory authorities, expert investigative techniques and technological resources.

Morton expounded on Chief Cato's correlation between the drop in crime and law enforcement activity explaining how targeting gang members and gang organizations lowers rates of recidivism.

"Members of these gangs are institutionally involved in crime and so are their organizations." Morton said. "The beauty of ICE's authority is that it is a powerful tool to bring these criminals to prosecution and then remove them from the United States."

A case in point is that of the 447 individuals arrested as a result of Project Big Freeze, 366 are foreign nationals who face deportation after their criminal prosecutions are complete.

Richfield, Minn. Police Chief Barry Fritz, whose agency also participated in the nationwide gang operation, praised ICE personnel, saying "they were wonderful and accommodating." Project Big Freeze was a force multiplier with ICE providing the resources, personnel and technology and ability to cross jurisdictions from state to state, as well as charge subjects federally.

"It's a two-way street," said Fritz. Local law enforcement help federal officials in that, "We know our city and where the people are."

See the ICE press release on Project Big Freeze for further information.

Visit the ICE image gallery for more photos from Project Big Freeze.


-- ICE --

 

[Immanuel]

He never mentioned 20 years in the video. Also, if you'd have actually paid attention to all of his comments, instead of just hacking up a single small clip, he's said that he'd prefer a single-payer system if he was starting from scratch.

There were two videos... check out the second one in which he does mention 20 years.

Here is the link to the second one again:

Obama in '07: Health Care Goal Is to Ultimately Eliminate Private Insurance | PoliJAM Blog

He says at the one minute mark that he can envision this a decade out, or fifteen to twenty years out.

Immie

 

[Foxfyre]

I meant all illegal immigrants, sorry.

They should not all be treated as potential terrorists because crossing the border (even illegally) is not a sign that they're terrorists. It's that simple.

Also I want a source that most people in prison in border states are illegals.

Why?

Who claimed that?

You're proving yourself a lying sack of shit again.

Try reading other people's posts

What we are talking about here is illegal immigration. Illegal immigrants, by definition, are illegal. They are thumbing their noses at our laws, and a disproportionate percentage of prisoners in our prisons, especially in the border states, are illegals that committed worse crimes than crossing the border illegally.

So it's technically not most as in >50% but close enough.

I am serously considering offering a remedial reading and/or reading comprehension program for a select few of USMB members.

We'll start with a discussion that 'some', even in liberal speak, doesn't not mean 'all'.
One person does not mean all persons.
'Probably' does not mean 'absolutely'.
'Somewhat' does not mean 'definitely'.
And 'disproportionate percentage' does not mean 'most' or even '50%'.

 

[Father Time]

Why?

Who claimed that?

You're proving yourself a lying sack of shit again.

Try reading other people's posts

What we are talking about here is illegal immigration. Illegal immigrants, by definition, are illegal. They are thumbing their noses at our laws, and a disproportionate percentage of prisoners in our prisons, especially in the border states, are illegals that committed worse crimes than crossing the border illegally.

So it's technically not most as in >50% but close enough.

I am serously considering offering a remedial reading and/or reading comprehension program for a select few of USMB members.

We'll start with a discussion that 'some', even in liberal speak, doesn't not mean 'all'.

Sorry I'd rather not take lessons from someone who thinks 'some' means 'all'. (Hey if you get to harp on one mistake so do I).

 

[Meister]

So far both your links come out of the same conservative think tank, interesting.

So far you've yet to point out any flaw in either one.

Interesting...

The one Angel hair quoted for instance all they have is their word, no other sources, and I'm not going to trust a think tank on their word alone.

You can believe what you want, but the numbers no matter what they are, are expensive to the tax payers of this great nation.

In Los Angeles, over 95% of arrest warrants issued for the crime of murder are for illegal aliens. At least 83% of arrest warrants for murder in Phoenix are for illegal aliens. The number climbs to 86% for Albuquerque. The most wanted lists for each of these cities is comprised of at least 75% illegal aliens.

The problem of prison overcrowding in California has been in the media many times over the past few months. Governor Schwarzenegger has attempted to gain relief from the overcrowding problem by shipping inmates to facilities in other states. Nearly 25% of the California prison population is comprised of illegal aliens. In Arizona, illegal aliens make up over 40% of the prison population and in New Mexico, the number is nearly 50%.

Illegal aliens account for nearly 30% of prison populations nationwide. This includes both state and federal prisons. The cost to house these illegal aliens is more than $1.6 billion dollars each year.

Statistics from 2005 indicate that over 75% of automobile thefts that occurred in Arizona, Nevada, California, Texas, and New Mexico were either stolen by illegal aliens or used to transport illegal aliens. Almost half of the drivers stopped in California for traffic violations have no driver's license, insurance, or registration. 92% of those are illegal aliens. In Arizona, 63% of those stopped have no license, registration or insurance and 97% of those people are illegal aliens. New Mexico's percentages are 66% stopped with no license, insurance and registration and 98% of those are illegal aliens.
Statistics: Crimes Commited by Illegal Aliens - Associated Content - associatedcontent.com

 

[Sheldon]

So far you've yet to point out any flaw in either one.

Interesting...

The one Angel hair quoted for instance all they have is their word, no other sources, and I'm not going to trust a think tank on their word alone.

You can believe what you want, but the numbers no matter what they are, are expensive to the tax payers of this great nation.

In Los Angeles, over 95% of arrest warrants issued for the crime of murder are for illegal aliens. At least 83% of arrest warrants for murder in Phoenix are for illegal aliens. The number climbs to 86% for Albuquerque. The most wanted lists for each of these cities is comprised of at least 75% illegal aliens.

The problem of prison overcrowding in California has been in the media many times over the past few months. Governor Schwarzenegger has attempted to gain relief from the overcrowding problem by shipping inmates to facilities in other states. Nearly 25% of the California prison population is comprised of illegal aliens. In Arizona, illegal aliens make up over 40% of the prison population and in New Mexico, the number is nearly 50%.

Illegal aliens account for nearly 30% of prison populations nationwide. This includes both state and federal prisons. The cost to house these illegal aliens is more than $1.6 billion dollars each year.

Statistics from 2005 indicate that over 75% of automobile thefts that occurred in Arizona, Nevada, California, Texas, and New Mexico were either stolen by illegal aliens or used to transport illegal aliens. Almost half of the drivers stopped in California for traffic violations have no driver's license, insurance, or registration. 92% of those are illegal aliens. In Arizona, 63% of those stopped have no license, registration or insurance and 97% of those people are illegal aliens. New Mexico's percentages are 66% stopped with no license, insurance and registration and 98% of those are illegal aliens.
Statistics: Crimes Commited by Illegal Aliens - Associated Content - associatedcontent.com

That study--or "study"--has been circulating the innerwebs for a few years, but can't be sourced to either the FBI or the INS. From what I can tell, it started as email spam from the CAII. Here's the snope.com link that dissects some of it:
snopes.com: Just One State - Cost of Illegals in Los Angeles

Also, your link is from a content mill--where people get paid based on the volume of content they write. This can mean it's not a valid source of information because the content is verified, only counted. The linked article doesn't source the information, although I know what she's referring to:
New FBI Statistics on Crimes Committed by Illegal Aliens

That study--or "study"--should be taken with a massive grain of salt--aka skepticism.

 

[Meister]

The one Angel hair quoted for instance all they have is their word, no other sources, and I'm not going to trust a think tank on their word alone.

You can believe what you want, but the numbers no matter what they are, are expensive to the tax payers of this great nation.

In Los Angeles, over 95% of arrest warrants issued for the crime of murder are for illegal aliens. At least 83% of arrest warrants for murder in Phoenix are for illegal aliens. The number climbs to 86% for Albuquerque. The most wanted lists for each of these cities is comprised of at least 75% illegal aliens.

The problem of prison overcrowding in California has been in the media many times over the past few months. Governor Schwarzenegger has attempted to gain relief from the overcrowding problem by shipping inmates to facilities in other states. Nearly 25% of the California prison population is comprised of illegal aliens. In Arizona, illegal aliens make up over 40% of the prison population and in New Mexico, the number is nearly 50%.

Illegal aliens account for nearly 30% of prison populations nationwide. This includes both state and federal prisons. The cost to house these illegal aliens is more than $1.6 billion dollars each year.

Statistics from 2005 indicate that over 75% of automobile thefts that occurred in Arizona, Nevada, California, Texas, and New Mexico were either stolen by illegal aliens or used to transport illegal aliens. Almost half of the drivers stopped in California for traffic violations have no driver's license, insurance, or registration. 92% of those are illegal aliens. In Arizona, 63% of those stopped have no license, registration or insurance and 97% of those people are illegal aliens. New Mexico's percentages are 66% stopped with no license, insurance and registration and 98% of those are illegal aliens.
Statistics: Crimes Commited by Illegal Aliens - Associated Content - associatedcontent.com

That study--or "study"--has been circulating the innerwebs for a few years, but can't be sourced to either the FBI or the INS. From what I can tell, it started as email spam from the CAII. Here's the snope.com link that dissects some of it:
snopes.com: Just One State - Cost of Illegals in Los Angeles

Also, your link is from a content mill--where people get paid based on the volume of content they write. This can mean it's not a valid source of information because the content is verified, only counted. The linked article doesn't source the information, although I know what she's referring to:
New FBI Statistics on Crimes Committed by Illegal Aliens

That study--or "study"--should be taken with a massive grain of salt--aka skepticism.

perhaps you should read my first statement. It does cost the taxpayers a hell of a lot of money, no matter what the numbers are. just sayin... and undeniable

 

[Sheldon]

You can believe what you want, but the numbers no matter what they are, are expensive to the tax payers of this great nation.

In Los Angeles, over 95% of arrest warrants issued for the crime of murder are for illegal aliens. At least 83% of arrest warrants for murder in Phoenix are for illegal aliens. The number climbs to 86% for Albuquerque. The most wanted lists for each of these cities is comprised of at least 75% illegal aliens.

The problem of prison overcrowding in California has been in the media many times over the past few months. Governor Schwarzenegger has attempted to gain relief from the overcrowding problem by shipping inmates to facilities in other states. Nearly 25% of the California prison population is comprised of illegal aliens. In Arizona, illegal aliens make up over 40% of the prison population and in New Mexico, the number is nearly 50%.

Illegal aliens account for nearly 30% of prison populations nationwide. This includes both state and federal prisons. The cost to house these illegal aliens is more than $1.6 billion dollars each year.

Statistics from 2005 indicate that over 75% of automobile thefts that occurred in Arizona, Nevada, California, Texas, and New Mexico were either stolen by illegal aliens or used to transport illegal aliens. Almost half of the drivers stopped in California for traffic violations have no driver's license, insurance, or registration. 92% of those are illegal aliens. In Arizona, 63% of those stopped have no license, registration or insurance and 97% of those people are illegal aliens. New Mexico's percentages are 66% stopped with no license, insurance and registration and 98% of those are illegal aliens.
Statistics: Crimes Commited by Illegal Aliens - Associated Content - associatedcontent.com

That study--or "study"--has been circulating the innerwebs for a few years, but can't be sourced to either the FBI or the INS. From what I can tell, it started as email spam from the CAII. Here's the snope.com link that dissects some of it:
snopes.com: Just One State - Cost of Illegals in Los Angeles

Also, your link is from a content mill--where people get paid based on the volume of content they write. This can mean it's not a valid source of information because the content is verified, only counted. The linked article doesn't source the information, although I know what she's referring to:
New FBI Statistics on Crimes Committed by Illegal Aliens

That study--or "study"--should be taken with a massive grain of salt--aka skepticism.

perhaps you should read my first statement. It does cost the taxpayers a hell of a lot of money, no matter what the numbers are. just sayin... and undeniable

I agree. It does cost tax dollars. I'd prefer our tax dollars in relation to illegal immigration be spent on enforcement, rather than providing social services or incarceration.

I can't wrap my head around why we imprison illegal immigrants instead of deporting them. I can see it for felony charges--but I think the numbers in the cited study are unreliable--but much of our prison population is for non-violent crimes and I have no reason to believe that ratio doesn't translate to the illegal immigrant population as well. Illegal immigrants arrested for non-violent crimes should be deported, not imprisoned. I think that would cost us less.

 

[antagon]

offer an annual renewable visa for $2500/year to residents w/o visas, and who could identify themselves. require that they file taxes and show proof of as much when they renew. there's some specifics with tax, which would make their status different, but that's the long version.

trust fund the revenues (up to a cap) for border protection and enforcement using double fences across the southern border (for starters). create an IRS taskforce to see about fiscal compliance with employers and individuals; create an FBI taskforce on the criminal compliance end.

strip visas from felons; deport all non-citizens who commit felonies or or who dont have a visa.

it is my personal impression that the us border patrol/border agency are slackers and their organization is set up wrong. dissolve.

empower the coasties to cover the border at sea and on land.

if there's money over the cap, add it to tax revenues.

this covers some of the gaps in the system as it stands. it will fund itself: a problem with lots of other ideas that ive read here, and makes few waves in the wider economy.

there's no stopping immigration to a place like the US. there are people who could pay for the privilege, and it is about time the government start earning its keep like the rest of us. its time immigrants start paying their dues like the rest of us.

 

[antagon]

HERE IS THE SOLUTION...

1. Increase our birthrate of the Best and Brightest among us, and stop subsidizing the birthrate of our worst and dumbest which we do in hundreds of ways, and surely STOP subsidizing the birthrate of the worst and dumbest in loser nations.

2. Provide sufficient punishment for illegal entry that no one would even think of it. I would suggest 5 years at hard labor, for the first offense, 10 years for the second offense, and 20 years for the third offense. These people come here for money, so making them work their butts off for nothing for 5 years will be sufficient to deter them from ever setting foot here illegally.

With those kinds of penalties in place we could dismantle all our vast expensive border force and expensive check points. By hard labor, I'm talking about chained ankles and non-stop work 12 hours a day, 7 days a week, 365 days a year.

THEN when we release them you wouldn't even have to deport them. They would run for the border and dive across on their own. They would generously be given 20 days to get across some border, and if they were caught here after that they would be arrested and get the next highest sentence and so on. That deterrence alone will totally cure anyone from coming here illegally.

3. Then, if we need them, bring in people who must have very high job skills that we clearly need, and that have at least a BA and the money to take care of any of their needs, and/or 5 to 10 million dollars to add to our economy.

4. Meanwhile, while this is working itself out, NO services of any sort for any reason, even emergency medical care for any other than citizens. All green carders and such would have 3 months to qualify to become citizens, or out they go. Everyone here must qualify to be a citizen or out they go.

5. Make it very hard to marry foreigners, and if anyone does marry one, they can never bring in any relatives of the spouse.

6. Five years in prison for anyone who aids and abets any illegal immigration of any sort.

7. No flying or showing any flag of any nation other than our own on our soil. One year at hard labor for doing this.

8. No public speaking in any language other than English, UNLESS the person in question can show they are proficient in English by testing. One year of hard labor for this.

9. NO rights of citizenship of any sort for anyone who is not an adult American citizen. No trial by jury, or any other right.

10. No rights of citizenship for any convicted felon. Such people would be encouraged to leave the country to wherever will accept them. They are not welcome here.

This is not a perfect list and can be improved upon, but it is a beginning. It would be a good start on our problems in this area.

solutions of an imbecile, each and severally.

 

[Father Time]

HERE IS THE SOLUTION...

1. Increase our birthrate of the Best and Brightest among us, and stop subsidizing the birthrate of our worst and dumbest which we do in hundreds of ways, and surely STOP subsidizing the birthrate of the worst and dumbest in loser nations.

2. Provide sufficient punishment for illegal entry that no one would even think of it. I would suggest 5 years at hard labor, for the first offense, 10 years for the second offense, and 20 years for the third offense. These people come here for money, so making them work their butts off for nothing for 5 years will be sufficient to deter them from ever setting foot here illegally.

With those kinds of penalties in place we could dismantle all our vast expensive border force and expensive check points. By hard labor, I'm talking about chained ankles and non-stop work 12 hours a day, 7 days a week, 365 days a year.

THEN when we release them you wouldn't even have to deport them. They would run for the border and dive across on their own. They would generously be given 20 days to get across some border, and if they were caught here after that they would be arrested and get the next highest sentence and so on. That deterrence alone will totally cure anyone from coming here illegally.

3. Then, if we need them, bring in people who must have very high job skills that we clearly need, and that have at least a BA and the money to take care of any of their needs, and/or 5 to 10 million dollars to add to our economy.

4. Meanwhile, while this is working itself out, NO services of any sort for any reason, even emergency medical care for any other than citizens. All green carders and such would have 3 months to qualify to become citizens, or out they go. Everyone here must qualify to be a citizen or out they go.

5. Make it very hard to marry foreigners, and if anyone does marry one, they can never bring in any relatives of the spouse.

6. Five years in prison for anyone who aids and abets any illegal immigration of any sort.

7. No flying or showing any flag of any nation other than our own on our soil. One year at hard labor for doing this.

8. No public speaking in any language other than English, UNLESS the person in question can show they are proficient in English by testing. One year of hard labor for this.

9. NO rights of citizenship of any sort for anyone who is not an adult American citizen. No trial by jury, or any other right.

10. No rights of citizenship for any convicted felon. Such people would be encouraged to leave the country to wherever will accept them. They are not welcome here.

This is not a perfect list and can be improved upon, but it is a beginning. It would be a good start on our problems in this area.

solutions of an imbecile, each and severally.

Seriously hard labor should not even be considered a punishment for such things.

And what the hell does she mean by subsidizing the birthrate of other nations? Does she think we pay other nations to grow their populations. It sounds like eugenics.

 

[antagon]

This is not a perfect list and can be improved upon, but it is a beginning. It would be a good start on our problems in this area.

solutions of an imbecile, each and severally.

Seriously hard labor should not even be considered a punishment for such a crime.

And what the hell does she mean by subsidizing the birthrate of other nations? Does she think we pay other nations to grow their populations. It sounds like eugenics.

this is the kind of shit that cripples a democratic society's ability to deal with real issues.

 

[Father Time]

There will always be stupid suggestions and insane ideas. This is what happens when you have free speech and a large population (not that I'd change either one of those).

 

[Polk]

He never mentioned 20 years in the video. Also, if you'd have actually paid attention to all of his comments, instead of just hacking up a single small clip, he's said that he'd prefer a single-payer system if he was starting from scratch.

Polk I did hear Obama say he is in favor of a single payer plan and it may take 15-20 years to get it. I don't know why you can't be honest with that, if you are as informed as you claim to be.

I am being honest. He didn't say it. You can keep claiming it, but that's not going to make it true.

 

[Polk]

He never mentioned 20 years in the video. Also, if you'd have actually paid attention to all of his comments, instead of just hacking up a single small clip, he's said that he'd prefer a single-payer system if he was starting from scratch.

There were two videos... check out the second one in which he does mention 20 years.

Here is the link to the second one again:

Obama in '07: Health Care Goal Is to Ultimately Eliminate Private Insurance | PoliJAM Blog

He says at the one minute mark that he can envision this a decade out, or fifteen to twenty years out.

Immie

This is what happens when you take different video clips and splice them together. You completely lose the context. Look at the paragraph the 20 years comment is made in, according to your own source:

"But I don’t think we’re going to be able to eliminate employer coverage immediately. There’s going to be potentially some transition process. I can envision a decade out or fifteen years out or twenty years out."

That's not saying there is going to be single-payer in twenty years. That's saying there will not be employer-based coverage in twenty years.

 

[Immanuel]

He never mentioned 20 years in the video. Also, if you'd have actually paid attention to all of his comments, instead of just hacking up a single small clip, he's said that he'd prefer a single-payer system if he was starting from scratch.

There were two videos... check out the second one in which he does mention 20 years.

Here is the link to the second one again:

Obama in '07: Health Care Goal Is to Ultimately Eliminate Private Insurance | PoliJAM Blog

He says at the one minute mark that he can envision this a decade out, or fifteen to twenty years out.

Immie

This is what happens when you take different video clips and splice them together. You completely lose the context. Look at the paragraph the 20 years comment is made in, according to your own source:

"But I don’t think we’re going to be able to eliminate employer coverage immediately. There’s going to be potentially some transition process. I can envision a decade out or fifteen years out or twenty years out."

That's not saying there is going to be single-payer in twenty years. That's saying there will not be employer-based coverage in twenty years.

You are so full of shit. You of all people would stoop to lying in that manner?

Don't worry, anyone that cares to listen to that clip will hear it and your deception will be known.

Immie

 

[Polk]

There were two videos... check out the second one in which he does mention 20 years.

Here is the link to the second one again:

Obama in '07: Health Care Goal Is to Ultimately Eliminate Private Insurance | PoliJAM Blog

He says at the one minute mark that he can envision this a decade out, or fifteen to twenty years out.

Immie

This is what happens when you take different video clips and splice them together. You completely lose the context. Look at the paragraph the 20 years comment is made in, according to your own source:

"But I don’t think we’re going to be able to eliminate employer coverage immediately. There’s going to be potentially some transition process. I can envision a decade out or fifteen years out or twenty years out."

That's not saying there is going to be single-payer in twenty years. That's saying there will not be employer-based coverage in twenty years.

You are so full of shit. You of all people would stoop to lying in that manner?

Don't worry, anyone that cares to listen to that clip will hear it and your deception will be known.

Immie

I haven't attempted to deceive anyone. It's not my fault that you're ignorant enough to think that video is one continuous clip. The video is pretty clearly from two separate events and while he's talking about the same broader topic, he's referring to specific details in each. You (and the creator of the webpage you linked to) try to claim that he's talking about the same thing in both clips, but it's clear, even from the transcripts they posted, that he's not.

 

[Immanuel]

This is what happens when you take different video clips and splice them together. You completely lose the context. Look at the paragraph the 20 years comment is made in, according to your own source:

"But I don’t think we’re going to be able to eliminate employer coverage immediately. There’s going to be potentially some transition process. I can envision a decade out or fifteen years out or twenty years out."

That's not saying there is going to be single-payer in twenty years. That's saying there will not be employer-based coverage in twenty years.

You are so full of shit. You of all people would stoop to lying in that manner?

Don't worry, anyone that cares to listen to that clip will hear it and your deception will be known.

Immie

I haven't attempted to deceive anyone. It's not my fault that you're ignorant enough to think that video is one continuous clip.

One minute mark proves you are a liar. No one said it was a continuous clip. Liar.

Immie