If You Wonder Why The Country Is Divided

[Concerned American]

Why should I pay for your college education? I pay state taxes to subsidize the state universities and shouldn't that be enough? Why should I have to foot the bill to pay for your worthless degree that you can't earn enough money to pay back your loans?

Maybe if you weren't such a sorry ass individual you would have earned a degree that had a good enough payback to pay off your loans. Like the STEM degrees.

Who could have anticipated that the bottom would fall out of the underwater basket weaving market?

 

[Flash]

Who could have anticipated that the bottom would fall out of the underwater basket weaving market?

Or that you couldn't get a six figure salary majoring in Negrology?

 

[Marener]

Median income for people with college degrees is twice that for people with high school diplomas.

That means they pay far more taxes, for those of you who don’t understand income tax.

 

[Concerned American]

Median income for people with college degrees is twice that for people with high school diplomas.

That means they pay far more taxes, for those of you who don’t understand income tax.

Ironic, do they default on their taxes the same way they default on their promises to repay debts that they owe?

 

[Couchpotato]

It doesn't matter who did it. It was done.

Means matter.

 

[Couchpotato]

Median income for people with college degrees is twice that for people with high school diplomas.

That means they pay far more taxes, for those of you who don’t understand income tax.

And should be able to pay back the debt contract they voluntarily entered into.

 

[Marener]

And should be able to pay back the debt contract they voluntarily entered into.

Debt gets renegotiated all the time. Nothing wrong with that.

Now they have more money to spend on other things in the economy and we stimulate demand.

 

[candycorn]

So, you can't articulate what exactly your vision is for "going forward",

Sure I can.

I’m one to believe that there should be one day to vote, in person.

Not weeks, not mail or harvesting, one day.

You’re the definition of going backwards.... Main in voting has been proven to be secure and popular.

but you want to brow beat everyone into believing that you have the answers? GTFOH.

JUst pointing out why we’re divided. All the answers? No. But it’s clear--today--that the only thing that is respected by all parties is the constitution. This is why:

• we have Miranda,
• you can plead the fifth;
• the press is able to report the crazy things that you believe.

It clearly states that the

• accused,
• those who are called to testify,
• the Gatewaypundshit

have rights. We need to have a lot more things codified that effect article 1 and article 2. Currently, the constitution, to those in power, serves as a roadmap to where the loopholes are. We need to close those. The Senate Majority leader has the power to stop any piece of legislation from getting voted on or if nominees get a hearing. Nobody in their right mind believes that this is the intent of the founders. Theoretically, we can get to the point to where we have no federal judges if there are Senate Majority leader(s) who simply refuse to have hearings. At no point in the Constitution gives this body-appointed officer that authority to be a human roadblock. Whatever powers this person has needs to be codified and limited.

Again...this is an example of how you want to go backwards and I (and others) see that we need to further perfect the document and through it; the nation. We need to pass an amendment to get rid of the presidential pardon. Candidates for president are now dangling pardons as part of campaign promises. Should this be part of an election campaign--that convicted or potentially convicted people will get a pardon?

These are just two examples of moving forward.


The issue though is that we can’t have the conversation. You believe in fantasies of voter fraud, deep state, swamps, etc...

 

[BrokeLoser]

Median income for people with college degrees is twice that for people with high school diplomas.

That means they pay far more taxes, for those of you who don’t understand income tax.

Something doesn’t add up here…
Aren’t you always telling us MAGA Republicans aren’t educated?
Aren’t you always telling us that MAGA Republicans are takers and not earners?

 

[forkup]

And what exactly does it mean to you to be an American....And not platitudes, but your vision of what it means....

Democrats have made 'zero sum' their driving goal since as long as I've been aware of politics...In fact right now, the radicals that have taken over the liberals, and moderates, would like to see your fellow American's jailed for the sin of voting for Trump....The attack on Business, Freedom, and Wealth in this country is under attack from the Democrats now in control of the party...And American's are fed up with this 'new breed's' dictates....

And what exactly does it mean to you to be an American....And not platitudes, but your vision of what it means....

A place were you can come as an immigrant, become a citizen, and be completely accepted as an American after that. The thing it says on the statue of liberty.

A place that thinks of itself as the "leader of the free world" and as such supports Democracy propagation and opposes authoritarians. Putin, Xi Ping, and Kim Jung aren't, "strong brilliant men" they are violent thugs.

A place were when a guy running for office says this. Will Saletan: A Rogue Presidency - The Bulwark Podcast - The Bulwark
At 21 minutes.
He's got no support.

As for this.

Democrats have made 'zero sum' their driving goal since as long as I've been aware of politics...In fact right now, the radicals that have taken over the liberals, and moderates, would like to see your fellow American's jailed for the sin of voting for Trump....The attack on Business, Freedom, and Wealth in this country is under attack from the Democrats now in control of the party...And American's are fed up with this 'new breed's' dictates.

For someone who doesn't like platitudes you sure use them a lot.

So be specific. What attacks and what specific policy? And who's advocating for jailing Trump supporters. Unless of course you mean Jan 6th. And last time I checked Republicans agreed with the concept of prosecuting people who attack cops.

 

[Couchpotato]

Debt gets renegotiated all the time. Nothing wrong with that.

Now they have more money to spend on other things in the economy and we stimulate demand.

This isn't a renegotiation it's a transfer of debt from one entity to another without the consent of the entity taking on the debt. By your logic why doesn't the government just relieve mortgage debt or credit card debt? And if it does so why should anyone be smart with the debt they take out? We should all just spend to the gills on credit and then just have the government magically erase it, and by erase it I mean transfer the debt to the taxpayer which is what you want to do.

 

[Lastamender]

We are divided because the right gave up the American dream.

Projection.

 

[j-mac]

Sure I can.




You’re the definition of going backwards.... Main in voting has been proven to be secure and popular.

JUst pointing out why we’re divided. All the answers? No. But it’s clear--today--that the only thing that is respected by all parties is the constitution. This is why:

• we have Miranda,
• you can plead the fifth;
• the press is able to report the crazy things that you believe.

It clearly states that the

• accused,
• those who are called to testify,
• the Gatewaypundshit

have rights. We need to have a lot more things codified that effect article 1 and article 2. Currently, the constitution, to those in power, serves as a roadmap to where the loopholes are. We need to close those. The Senate Majority leader has the power to stop any piece of legislation from getting voted on or if nominees get a hearing. Nobody in their right mind believes that this is the intent of the founders. Theoretically, we can get to the point to where we have no federal judges if there are Senate Majority leader(s) who simply refuse to have hearings. At no point in the Constitution gives this body-appointed officer that authority to be a human roadblock. Whatever powers this person has needs to be codified and limited.

Again...this is an example of how you want to go backwards and I (and others) see that we need to further perfect the document and through it; the nation. We need to pass an amendment to get rid of the presidential pardon. Candidates for president are now dangling pardons as part of campaign promises. Should this be part of an election campaign--that convicted or potentially convicted people will get a pardon?

These are just two examples of moving forward.


The issue though is that we can’t have the conversation. You believe in fantasies of voter fraud, deep state, swamps, etc...

Let’s see how you feel come November, then we’ll talk about who believes what…

 

[John Edgar Slow Horses]

This isn't a renegotiation it's a transfer of debt from one entity to another without the consent of the entity taking on the debt. By your logic why doesn't the government just relieve mortgage debt or credit card debt? And if it does so why should anyone be smart with the debt they take out? We should all just spend to the gills on credit and then just have the government magically erase it, and by erase it I mean transfer the debt to the taxpayer which is what you want to do.

Some good points. Taking on responsibility requires a majority not an absolute.

 

[j-mac]

A place were you can come as an immigrant, become a citizen, and be completely accepted as an American after that. The thing it says on the statue of liberty.

A place that thinks of itself as the "leader of the free world" and as such supports Democracy propagation and opposes authoritarians. Putin, Xi Ping, and Kim Jung aren't, "strong brilliant men" they are violent thugs.

The Statue of Liberty poem is fine, but when they come, they must come legally, and assimilate…Trying to erase our borders with floods of illegal entries, with little to no background checks is a recipe for catastrophe…

A place were when a guy running for office says this. Will Saletan: A Rogue Presidency - The Bulwark Podcast - The Bulwark
At 21 minutes.
He's got no support.

I’ll check it out at some point…

As for this.

For someone who doesn't like platitudes you sure use them a lot.

So be specific. What attacks and what specific policy? And who's advocating for jailing Trump supporters. Unless of course you mean Jan 6th. And last time I checked Republicans agreed with the concept of prosecuting people who attack cops.

This could be a thread in itself, maybe I’ll start one later…

 

[Marener]

This isn't a renegotiation it's a transfer of debt from one entity to another without the consent of the entity taking on the debt. By your logic why doesn't the government just relieve mortgage debt or credit card debt? And if it does so why should anyone be smart with the debt they take out? We should all just spend to the gills on credit and then just have the government magically erase it, and by erase it I mean transfer the debt to the taxpayer which is what you want to do.

You are confused. The student loan debt we are talking about always belonged to the government.

There is no transfer.

Like I said, debt gets reduced all the time.

 

[Couchpotato]

A place were you can come as an immigrant, become a citizen, and be completely accepted as an American after that. The thing it says on the statue of liberty.

The US has the most liberal immigration policies on the planet. No one accepts more immigrants than we do. There are over 50 million foreign born citizens living in the US, that's #1 in the world and more than 2-6 combined. Few people issue with LEGAL immigration is the ILLEGAL immigration that is the problem.

A place that thinks of itself as the "leader of the free world" and as such supports Democracy propagation and opposes authoritarians. Putin, Xi Ping, and Kim Jung aren't, "strong brilliant men" they are violent thugs.

The wall came down in the early 90's, and the USSR broke up soon after. Since then we have fostered an adversarial relationship with Russia. How has that worked out for us? Have they elected a liberal freedom loving President who has moved Russia into the world community or has the opposite happened? How about China? NK? Do you think saying more bad things about those leaders and further fostering the adversarial relationship is going to work? Have we just not chastised them enough? And who the fuck are we to tell another country how to govern themselves? Seriously. Why do you think the US should get to tell other people who to vote for?

A place were when a guy running for office says this. Will Saletan: A Rogue Presidency - The Bulwark Podcast - The Bulwark
At 21 minutes.
He's got no support.

As for this.

For someone who doesn't like platitudes you sure use them a lot.

So be specific. What attacks and what specific policy? And who's advocating for jailing Trump supporters. Unless of course you mean Jan 6th. And last time I checked Republicans agreed with the concept of prosecuting people who attack cops.

 

[Couchpotato]

You are confused. The student loan debt we are talking about always belonged to the government.

No it doesnt. It belongs to the people who took out the loan. The Government holds the ticket to collect the debt but the Government, read taxpayers, isn't liable for the debt. You want to transfer that debt from the people who voluntarily entered into that contracted debt, received the contracted services they purchased in exchange for that debt to people who didn't enter into the contract, and didn't receive anything in exchange. Why is it any different than a home loan or the loan I took out to go gambling in Vegas when I had a losing streak?

There is no transfer.

There's a transfer of who's on the hook to pay for it. You know the important part.

Like I said, debt gets reduced all the time.

It's not a reduction in debt. This isnt the Government saying hey we are going to take a loss on a contract, it's them just making someone else pay it. There is a chasm of difference.

 

[Marener]

It's not a reduction in debt. This isnt the Government saying hey we are going to take a loss on a contract, it's them just making someone else pay it. There is a chasm of difference.

Government is the lender for student loans, just like a bank is the lender for private loans.

When a debtor negotiates down their bank loan, the bank takes a loss.

When the debtor negotiates down their student loans, the government takes a loss.

By this analogy, the bank negotiating down debt is “transferring” the debt to their shareholders who were supposed to receive the benefits of that loan payback.

 

[Couchpotato]

Government is the lender for student loans, just like a bank is the lender for private loans.

When a debtor negotiates down their bank loan, the bank takes a loss.

When the debtor negotiates down their student loans, the government takes a loss.

By this analogy, the bank negotiating down debt is “transferring” the debt to their shareholders who were supposed to receive the benefits of that loan payback.

Right, The debt just disappears, like it never existed. You're either fantastically stupid or being intentionally dishonest about this. Either way if you're not willing to have a discussion of what's actually happening then there's no reason to discuss it.