If Trump wants to end investigation chatter, he just has to say "we are leaving NAFTA, NOW!"

[shockedcanadian]

You would then see the media and his detractors scrambling, outrage from many who have been shipping jobs to Mexico and Canada. Such a decision, which he almost made before deciding to negotiate for now; would force the end of this agreement in six months. Not only would it be immensely popular with his supporters and most independents, but it would also draw a number of Bernie supporters who are fully against NAFTA.

He could then say "put that in your pipe and smoke it. We will no longer be talking at all about Russia, if there are charges coming forward they will be answered in court. Otherwise, it's time to generate business in America for American workers". There would be such a focus on the end of NAFTA that the media wouldn't be able to go off track. Knowing the Canadian centralized government with it's many patsies and operatives, I always felt this strong approach was best to force other countries to be more democratic, free, fair and honest.

That's it. It is so simple. Since he cannot control the media narrative and those out to derail him, he has to use all legal means at his disposal to force the hands of others and to control the direction of the country, not let others attempt to manipulate. A simple "we are leaving NAFTA" as he simply left TPP without a second thought, would be a massive move. It would force bi-lateral negotiations, which really is what is best for American workers and what he supported. He should then work for similar negotiations with Japan and other Westernized economies.

 

[iceberg]

if he can't control the media how would doing ANYTHING stop the "Chatter"?

 

[AntonToo]

You would then see the media and his detractors scrambling, outrage from many who have been shipping jobs to Mexico and Canada. Such a decision, which he almost made before deciding to negotiate for now; would force the end of this agreement in six months. Not only would it be immensely popular with his supporters and most independents, but it would also draw a number of Bernie supporters who are fully against NAFTA.

He could then say "put that in your pipe and smoke it. We will no longer be talking at all about Russia, if there are charges coming forward they will be answered in court. Otherwise, it's time to generate business in America for American workers". There would be such a focus on the end of NAFTA that the media wouldn't be able to go off track. Knowing the Canadian centralized government with it's many patsies and operatives, I always felt this strong approach was best to force other countries to be more democratic, free, fair and honest.

That's it. It is so simple. Since he cannot control the media narrative and those out to derail him, he has to use all legal means at his disposal to force the hands of others and to control the direction of the country, not let others attempt to manipulate. A simple "we are leaving NAFTA" as he simply left TPP without a second thought, would be a massive move. It would force bi-lateral negotiations, which really is what is best for American workers and what he supported. He should then work for similar negotiations with Japan and other Westernized economies.

Trump didn't leave TPP as there wasn't TPP. What he abandoned was the ADOPTION of TPP.

I know it seems like a simple thing from the comfort of your couch but abrupt quitting of very much implemented and integrated NAFTA would be a HUGE near-to-medium term economic disruption and wreck a lot of companies. It would be a political disaster for Trump on both domestic and foreign policy fronts.

Also, Trump himself most likely CAN'T quit NAFTA as it was passed by Congress (via Implementation Act)

 

[Indeependent]

You would then see the media and his detractors scrambling, outrage from many who have been shipping jobs to Mexico and Canada. Such a decision, which he almost made before deciding to negotiate for now; would force the end of this agreement in six months. Not only would it be immensely popular with his supporters and most independents, but it would also draw a number of Bernie supporters who are fully against NAFTA.

He could then say "put that in your pipe and smoke it. We will no longer be talking at all about Russia, if there are charges coming forward they will be answered in court. Otherwise, it's time to generate business in America for American workers". There would be such a focus on the end of NAFTA that the media wouldn't be able to go off track. Knowing the Canadian centralized government with it's many patsies and operatives, I always felt this strong approach was best to force other countries to be more democratic, free, fair and honest.

That's it. It is so simple. Since he cannot control the media narrative and those out to derail him, he has to use all legal means at his disposal to force the hands of others and to control the direction of the country, not let others attempt to manipulate. A simple "we are leaving NAFTA" as he simply left TPP without a second thought, would be a massive move. It would force bi-lateral negotiations, which really is what is best for American workers and what he supported. He should then work for similar negotiations with Japan and other Westernized economies.

Trump didn't leave TPP as there wasn't TPP. What he abandoned was the ADOPTION of TPP.

I know it seems like a simple thing from the comfort of your couch but abrupt quitting of very much implemented and integrated NAFTA would be a HUGE near-to-medium term economic disruption and wreck a lot of companies. It would be a political disaster for Trump on both domestic and foreign policy fronts.

It's always OK to destroy American jobs and careers and make investors wealthy in a short period of time but God forbid we stop worrying about investors and increase employment opportunities.

 

[midcan5]

Americans don't support America, do any of you buy American? Japan and others put together a few cars here - not made - and the Americans buy. Add to that the status cars, Lexus is the new Cadillac. Kinda funny really. Mirrors are missing on this topic.

Writing Unions Out of the Story on Fighting Poverty
A World Without Work?
Galloping Over The Minimum Wage Myth

"There is no need to sally forth, for it remains true that those things which make us human are, curiously enough, always close at hand. Resolve, then, that on this very ground, with small flags waving and tiny blasts of tiny trumpets, we shall meet the enemy, and not only may he be ours, he may be us." Pogo

"I hear all this, oh this is class warfare, no! There is nobody in this country who got rich on his own. Nobody. You built a factory out there — good for you. But I want to be clear. You moved your goods to market on the roads the rest of us paid for. You hired workers the rest of us paid to educate. You were safe in your factory because of police forces and fire forces that the rest of us paid for. You didn’t have to worry that marauding bands would come and seize everything at your factory… Now look. You built a factory and it turned into something terrific or a great idea — God Bless! Keep a big hunk of it. But part of the underlying social contract is you take a hunk of that and pay forward for the next kid who comes along." Elizabeth Warren

 

[shockedcanadian]

You would then see the media and his detractors scrambling, outrage from many who have been shipping jobs to Mexico and Canada. Such a decision, which he almost made before deciding to negotiate for now; would force the end of this agreement in six months. Not only would it be immensely popular with his supporters and most independents, but it would also draw a number of Bernie supporters who are fully against NAFTA.

He could then say "put that in your pipe and smoke it. We will no longer be talking at all about Russia, if there are charges coming forward they will be answered in court. Otherwise, it's time to generate business in America for American workers". There would be such a focus on the end of NAFTA that the media wouldn't be able to go off track. Knowing the Canadian centralized government with it's many patsies and operatives, I always felt this strong approach was best to force other countries to be more democratic, free, fair and honest.

That's it. It is so simple. Since he cannot control the media narrative and those out to derail him, he has to use all legal means at his disposal to force the hands of others and to control the direction of the country, not let others attempt to manipulate. A simple "we are leaving NAFTA" as he simply left TPP without a second thought, would be a massive move. It would force bi-lateral negotiations, which really is what is best for American workers and what he supported. He should then work for similar negotiations with Japan and other Westernized economies.

Trump didn't leave TPP as there wasn't TPP. What he abandoned was the ADOPTION of TPP.

I know it seems like a simple thing from the comfort of your couch but abrupt quitting of very much implemented and integrated NAFTA would be a HUGE near-to-medium term economic disruption and wreck a lot of companies. It would be a political disaster for Trump on both domestic and foreign policy fronts.

Also, Trump himself most likely CAN'T quit NAFTA as it was passed by Congress (via Implementation Act)

Free Trade must now be altered to Fair Trade. America is being fleeced, Canada has been laughing at the U.S for some time, "imagine, another country just GIVES us their jobs. Massive corporations in Toronto for no other reason than to employ the needy of Canada. Where do I sign up!?" It's not as if these jobs couldn't be done in America and these corporate leaders know this.

Canadian and provincial officials give money, cash, into the hands of corporations in order to come to Canada and take your tax base from you. No innovation from Canada needed, hell, we don't even have our own domestic auto industry. When I was having a discussion about this topic with a Canadian lady she told me "what are you talking about we have GM, they are a big presence in Ontario". I told her, "yes, GM was founded and began in America, they are an American company". She was so lost and argumentative on this point, "no they are Canadian". This poor soul doesn't even realize how lost she is.

If there is a strong dispute mechanism that allows whistleblowers to expose abuses, it would go a long way to defending trade. The world would learn just how protectionist Canada is, we pretend to be a free market, capitalist system, but we are really a neo-communist, socialist system in the shape of a Bernie or Warren.

For Canada, Free Trade is great, as we can use our centralized government and it's patsies to enter your businesses, steal your technology (sell it to other nations I'm sure), control your workforce, reward the government loyalists and undermine your business operations. Please, send us MORE of your jobs, we can't get enough of them! You might as well have a free trade agreement with Russia or North Korea, at least then you would EXPECT them to enter your corporation and interference with your business and personal pursuits.

What does Canada do to contribute to this ecosystem? Nothing, we just let you spend the money on R&D, innovation and capitalism, and we will leech all we can while sending you oil, lumber, and dairy, the last two industries heavily controlled and sponsored by the government (you don't expect us to subject our industries to free market competition do you?!). CSIS the RCMP and their cowardly surrogates, all willing enemies of capitalism and the Right to Self Determination of U.S businesses. While your tax base shrinks and dependents grow.

NAFTA for the sake of America's future and Western liberty, has to be drastically reformed or outright withdrawn from, replaced with bilateral agreements. Furthermore, any agreement requires strong dispute mechanisms and punishments. I've expressed a great amount of detail for American politicians to be aware of, it's up to them to defend their economy and sovereignty at this point.

 

[AntonToo]

You would then see the media and his detractors scrambling, outrage from many who have been shipping jobs to Mexico and Canada. Such a decision, which he almost made before deciding to negotiate for now; would force the end of this agreement in six months. Not only would it be immensely popular with his supporters and most independents, but it would also draw a number of Bernie supporters who are fully against NAFTA.

He could then say "put that in your pipe and smoke it. We will no longer be talking at all about Russia, if there are charges coming forward they will be answered in court. Otherwise, it's time to generate business in America for American workers". There would be such a focus on the end of NAFTA that the media wouldn't be able to go off track. Knowing the Canadian centralized government with it's many patsies and operatives, I always felt this strong approach was best to force other countries to be more democratic, free, fair and honest.

That's it. It is so simple. Since he cannot control the media narrative and those out to derail him, he has to use all legal means at his disposal to force the hands of others and to control the direction of the country, not let others attempt to manipulate. A simple "we are leaving NAFTA" as he simply left TPP without a second thought, would be a massive move. It would force bi-lateral negotiations, which really is what is best for American workers and what he supported. He should then work for similar negotiations with Japan and other Westernized economies.

Trump didn't leave TPP as there wasn't TPP. What he abandoned was the ADOPTION of TPP.

I know it seems like a simple thing from the comfort of your couch but abrupt quitting of very much implemented and integrated NAFTA would be a HUGE near-to-medium term economic disruption and wreck a lot of companies. It would be a political disaster for Trump on both domestic and foreign policy fronts.

Also, Trump himself most likely CAN'T quit NAFTA as it was passed by Congress (via Implementation Act)

Free Trade must now be altered to Fair Trade. America is being fleeced, Canada has been laughing at the U.S for some time, "imagine, another country just GIVES us their jobs. Massive corporations in Toronto for no other reason than to employ the needy of Canada. Where do I sign up!?" It's not as if these jobs couldn't be done in America and these corporate leaders know this.

Canadian and provincial officials give money, cash, into the hands of corporations in order to come to Canada and take your tax base from you. No innovation from Canada needed, hell, we don't even have our own domestic auto industry. When I was having a discussion about this topic with a Canadian lady she told me "what are you talking about we have GM, they are a big presence in Ontario". I told her, "yes, GM was founded and began in America, they are an American company". She was so lost and argumentative on this point, "no they are Canadian". This poor soul doesn't even realize how lost she is.

If there is a strong dispute mechanism that allows whistleblowers to expose abuses, it would go a long way to defending trade. The world would learn just how protectionist Canada is, we pretend to be a free market, capitalist system, but we are really a neo-communist, socialist system in the shape of a Bernie or Warren.

For Canada, Free Trade is great, as we can use our centralized government and it's patsies to enter your businesses, steal your technology (sell it to other nations I'm sure), control your workforce, reward the government loyalists and undermine your business operations. Please, send us MORE of your jobs, we can't get enough of them! You might as well have a free trade agreement with Russia or North Korea, at least then you would EXPECT them to enter your corporation and interference with your business and personal pursuits.

What does Canada do to contribute to this ecosystem? Nothing, we just let you spend the money on R&D, innovation and capitalism, and we will leech all we can while sending you oil, lumber, and dairy, the last two industries heavily controlled and sponsored by the government (you don't expect us to subject our industries to free market competition do you?!). CSIS the RCMP and their cowardly surrogates, all willing enemies of capitalism and the Right to Self Determination of U.S businesses. While your tax base shrinks and dependents grow.

NAFTA for the sake of America's future and Western liberty, has to be drastically reformed or outright withdrawn from, replaced with bilateral agreements. Furthermore, any agreement requires strong dispute mechanisms and punishments. I've expressed a great amount of detail for American politicians to be aware of, it's up to them to defend their economy and sovereignty at this point.

I'm trying to make sense of this - why does a Canadian complain about policy that by your own argument greatly benefits Canada? It's like an American complaining that NAFTA is too generous to America.

Some fun facts about what we are talking about here:

Currently Canada and America trade about 550 billion worth of goods with only about 2% trade surplus for Canada (12 billion).

You are proposing a huge disruption to this 550 billion trade (thats without even taking into account the Mexican side of this) just by unilateral decision by Trump. To me that seems like a totally insane idea.

We can look at some particular aspects of NAFTA, we can look to rework some parts of the agreement but simply pulling out will do serious harm.

 

[shockedcanadian]

You would then see the media and his detractors scrambling, outrage from many who have been shipping jobs to Mexico and Canada. Such a decision, which he almost made before deciding to negotiate for now; would force the end of this agreement in six months. Not only would it be immensely popular with his supporters and most independents, but it would also draw a number of Bernie supporters who are fully against NAFTA.

He could then say "put that in your pipe and smoke it. We will no longer be talking at all about Russia, if there are charges coming forward they will be answered in court. Otherwise, it's time to generate business in America for American workers". There would be such a focus on the end of NAFTA that the media wouldn't be able to go off track. Knowing the Canadian centralized government with it's many patsies and operatives, I always felt this strong approach was best to force other countries to be more democratic, free, fair and honest.

That's it. It is so simple. Since he cannot control the media narrative and those out to derail him, he has to use all legal means at his disposal to force the hands of others and to control the direction of the country, not let others attempt to manipulate. A simple "we are leaving NAFTA" as he simply left TPP without a second thought, would be a massive move. It would force bi-lateral negotiations, which really is what is best for American workers and what he supported. He should then work for similar negotiations with Japan and other Westernized economies.

Trump didn't leave TPP as there wasn't TPP. What he abandoned was the ADOPTION of TPP.

I know it seems like a simple thing from the comfort of your couch but abrupt quitting of very much implemented and integrated NAFTA would be a HUGE near-to-medium term economic disruption and wreck a lot of companies. It would be a political disaster for Trump on both domestic and foreign policy fronts.

Also, Trump himself most likely CAN'T quit NAFTA as it was passed by Congress (via Implementation Act)

Free Trade must now be altered to Fair Trade. America is being fleeced, Canada has been laughing at the U.S for some time, "imagine, another country just GIVES us their jobs. Massive corporations in Toronto for no other reason than to employ the needy of Canada. Where do I sign up!?" It's not as if these jobs couldn't be done in America and these corporate leaders know this.

Canadian and provincial officials give money, cash, into the hands of corporations in order to come to Canada and take your tax base from you. No innovation from Canada needed, hell, we don't even have our own domestic auto industry. When I was having a discussion about this topic with a Canadian lady she told me "what are you talking about we have GM, they are a big presence in Ontario". I told her, "yes, GM was founded and began in America, they are an American company". She was so lost and argumentative on this point, "no they are Canadian". This poor soul doesn't even realize how lost she is.

If there is a strong dispute mechanism that allows whistleblowers to expose abuses, it would go a long way to defending trade. The world would learn just how protectionist Canada is, we pretend to be a free market, capitalist system, but we are really a neo-communist, socialist system in the shape of a Bernie or Warren.

For Canada, Free Trade is great, as we can use our centralized government and it's patsies to enter your businesses, steal your technology (sell it to other nations I'm sure), control your workforce, reward the government loyalists and undermine your business operations. Please, send us MORE of your jobs, we can't get enough of them! You might as well have a free trade agreement with Russia or North Korea, at least then you would EXPECT them to enter your corporation and interference with your business and personal pursuits.

What does Canada do to contribute to this ecosystem? Nothing, we just let you spend the money on R&D, innovation and capitalism, and we will leech all we can while sending you oil, lumber, and dairy, the last two industries heavily controlled and sponsored by the government (you don't expect us to subject our industries to free market competition do you?!). CSIS the RCMP and their cowardly surrogates, all willing enemies of capitalism and the Right to Self Determination of U.S businesses. While your tax base shrinks and dependents grow.

NAFTA for the sake of America's future and Western liberty, has to be drastically reformed or outright withdrawn from, replaced with bilateral agreements. Furthermore, any agreement requires strong dispute mechanisms and punishments. I've expressed a great amount of detail for American politicians to be aware of, it's up to them to defend their economy and sovereignty at this point.

I'm trying to make sense of this - why does a Canadian complain about policy that by your own argument greatly benefits Canada? It's like an American complaining that NAFTA is too generous to America.

Some fun facts about what we are talking about here:

Currently Canada and America trade about 550 billion worth of goods with only about 2% trade surplus for Canada (12 billion).

You are proposing a huge disruption to this 550 billion trade (thats without even taking into account the Mexican side of this) just by unilateral decision by Trump. To me that seems like a totally insane idea.

We can look at some particular aspects of NAFTA, we can look to rework some parts of the agreement but simply pulling out will do serious harm.

Put it this way, Canada is stabbing you in the back. You might not know it, you probably don't believe it, but they are. NAFTA has made it much easier for Canada to exploit the U.S economy and they have been so arrogant about this fact that even when I made them aware a decade ago that if they didn't act on what I knew then I would start educating American politicians, they simply ruined my and my wifes life. The election of Trump sent a strong message that the party could be over and my guess is the genie will not be put back in the bottle from this day forward, even after this administration leaves.

I complain because I know Canada is NOT a leader in capitalism and individual liberty, only America can protect and broaden these vital principles. A nation like Canada cannot preach what it does not practice.

 

[AntonToo]

You would then see the media and his detractors scrambling, outrage from many who have been shipping jobs to Mexico and Canada. Such a decision, which he almost made before deciding to negotiate for now; would force the end of this agreement in six months. Not only would it be immensely popular with his supporters and most independents, but it would also draw a number of Bernie supporters who are fully against NAFTA.

He could then say "put that in your pipe and smoke it. We will no longer be talking at all about Russia, if there are charges coming forward they will be answered in court. Otherwise, it's time to generate business in America for American workers". There would be such a focus on the end of NAFTA that the media wouldn't be able to go off track. Knowing the Canadian centralized government with it's many patsies and operatives, I always felt this strong approach was best to force other countries to be more democratic, free, fair and honest.

That's it. It is so simple. Since he cannot control the media narrative and those out to derail him, he has to use all legal means at his disposal to force the hands of others and to control the direction of the country, not let others attempt to manipulate. A simple "we are leaving NAFTA" as he simply left TPP without a second thought, would be a massive move. It would force bi-lateral negotiations, which really is what is best for American workers and what he supported. He should then work for similar negotiations with Japan and other Westernized economies.

Trump didn't leave TPP as there wasn't TPP. What he abandoned was the ADOPTION of TPP.

I know it seems like a simple thing from the comfort of your couch but abrupt quitting of very much implemented and integrated NAFTA would be a HUGE near-to-medium term economic disruption and wreck a lot of companies. It would be a political disaster for Trump on both domestic and foreign policy fronts.

Also, Trump himself most likely CAN'T quit NAFTA as it was passed by Congress (via Implementation Act)

Free Trade must now be altered to Fair Trade. America is being fleeced, Canada has been laughing at the U.S for some time, "imagine, another country just GIVES us their jobs. Massive corporations in Toronto for no other reason than to employ the needy of Canada. Where do I sign up!?" It's not as if these jobs couldn't be done in America and these corporate leaders know this.

Canadian and provincial officials give money, cash, into the hands of corporations in order to come to Canada and take your tax base from you. No innovation from Canada needed, hell, we don't even have our own domestic auto industry. When I was having a discussion about this topic with a Canadian lady she told me "what are you talking about we have GM, they are a big presence in Ontario". I told her, "yes, GM was founded and began in America, they are an American company". She was so lost and argumentative on this point, "no they are Canadian". This poor soul doesn't even realize how lost she is.

If there is a strong dispute mechanism that allows whistleblowers to expose abuses, it would go a long way to defending trade. The world would learn just how protectionist Canada is, we pretend to be a free market, capitalist system, but we are really a neo-communist, socialist system in the shape of a Bernie or Warren.

For Canada, Free Trade is great, as we can use our centralized government and it's patsies to enter your businesses, steal your technology (sell it to other nations I'm sure), control your workforce, reward the government loyalists and undermine your business operations. Please, send us MORE of your jobs, we can't get enough of them! You might as well have a free trade agreement with Russia or North Korea, at least then you would EXPECT them to enter your corporation and interference with your business and personal pursuits.

What does Canada do to contribute to this ecosystem? Nothing, we just let you spend the money on R&D, innovation and capitalism, and we will leech all we can while sending you oil, lumber, and dairy, the last two industries heavily controlled and sponsored by the government (you don't expect us to subject our industries to free market competition do you?!). CSIS the RCMP and their cowardly surrogates, all willing enemies of capitalism and the Right to Self Determination of U.S businesses. While your tax base shrinks and dependents grow.

NAFTA for the sake of America's future and Western liberty, has to be drastically reformed or outright withdrawn from, replaced with bilateral agreements. Furthermore, any agreement requires strong dispute mechanisms and punishments. I've expressed a great amount of detail for American politicians to be aware of, it's up to them to defend their economy and sovereignty at this point.

I'm trying to make sense of this - why does a Canadian complain about policy that by your own argument greatly benefits Canada? It's like an American complaining that NAFTA is too generous to America.

Some fun facts about what we are talking about here:

Currently Canada and America trade about 550 billion worth of goods with only about 2% trade surplus for Canada (12 billion).

You are proposing a huge disruption to this 550 billion trade (thats without even taking into account the Mexican side of this) just by unilateral decision by Trump. To me that seems like a totally insane idea.

We can look at some particular aspects of NAFTA, we can look to rework some parts of the agreement but simply pulling out will do serious harm.

Put it this way, Canada is stabbing you in the back. You might not know it, you probably don't believe it, but they are. NAFTA has made it much easier for Canada to exploit the U.S economy and they have been so arrogant about this fact that even when I made them aware a decade ago that if they didn't act on what I knew then I would start educating American politicians, they simply ruined my and my wifes life. The election of Trump sent a strong message that the party could be over and my guess is the genie will not be put back in the bottle from this day forward, even after this administration leaves.

I complain because I know Canada is NOT a leader in capitalism and individual liberty, only America can protect and broaden these vital principles. A nation like Canada cannot preach what it does not practice.

As to the cost of big disruption of 550 billion dollar trade between Canada and America you say...what exactly?

 

[shockedcanadian]

You would then see the media and his detractors scrambling, outrage from many who have been shipping jobs to Mexico and Canada. Such a decision, which he almost made before deciding to negotiate for now; would force the end of this agreement in six months. Not only would it be immensely popular with his supporters and most independents, but it would also draw a number of Bernie supporters who are fully against NAFTA.

He could then say "put that in your pipe and smoke it. We will no longer be talking at all about Russia, if there are charges coming forward they will be answered in court. Otherwise, it's time to generate business in America for American workers". There would be such a focus on the end of NAFTA that the media wouldn't be able to go off track. Knowing the Canadian centralized government with it's many patsies and operatives, I always felt this strong approach was best to force other countries to be more democratic, free, fair and honest.

That's it. It is so simple. Since he cannot control the media narrative and those out to derail him, he has to use all legal means at his disposal to force the hands of others and to control the direction of the country, not let others attempt to manipulate. A simple "we are leaving NAFTA" as he simply left TPP without a second thought, would be a massive move. It would force bi-lateral negotiations, which really is what is best for American workers and what he supported. He should then work for similar negotiations with Japan and other Westernized economies.

Trump didn't leave TPP as there wasn't TPP. What he abandoned was the ADOPTION of TPP.

I know it seems like a simple thing from the comfort of your couch but abrupt quitting of very much implemented and integrated NAFTA would be a HUGE near-to-medium term economic disruption and wreck a lot of companies. It would be a political disaster for Trump on both domestic and foreign policy fronts.

Also, Trump himself most likely CAN'T quit NAFTA as it was passed by Congress (via Implementation Act)

Free Trade must now be altered to Fair Trade. America is being fleeced, Canada has been laughing at the U.S for some time, "imagine, another country just GIVES us their jobs. Massive corporations in Toronto for no other reason than to employ the needy of Canada. Where do I sign up!?" It's not as if these jobs couldn't be done in America and these corporate leaders know this.

Canadian and provincial officials give money, cash, into the hands of corporations in order to come to Canada and take your tax base from you. No innovation from Canada needed, hell, we don't even have our own domestic auto industry. When I was having a discussion about this topic with a Canadian lady she told me "what are you talking about we have GM, they are a big presence in Ontario". I told her, "yes, GM was founded and began in America, they are an American company". She was so lost and argumentative on this point, "no they are Canadian". This poor soul doesn't even realize how lost she is.

If there is a strong dispute mechanism that allows whistleblowers to expose abuses, it would go a long way to defending trade. The world would learn just how protectionist Canada is, we pretend to be a free market, capitalist system, but we are really a neo-communist, socialist system in the shape of a Bernie or Warren.

For Canada, Free Trade is great, as we can use our centralized government and it's patsies to enter your businesses, steal your technology (sell it to other nations I'm sure), control your workforce, reward the government loyalists and undermine your business operations. Please, send us MORE of your jobs, we can't get enough of them! You might as well have a free trade agreement with Russia or North Korea, at least then you would EXPECT them to enter your corporation and interference with your business and personal pursuits.

What does Canada do to contribute to this ecosystem? Nothing, we just let you spend the money on R&D, innovation and capitalism, and we will leech all we can while sending you oil, lumber, and dairy, the last two industries heavily controlled and sponsored by the government (you don't expect us to subject our industries to free market competition do you?!). CSIS the RCMP and their cowardly surrogates, all willing enemies of capitalism and the Right to Self Determination of U.S businesses. While your tax base shrinks and dependents grow.

NAFTA for the sake of America's future and Western liberty, has to be drastically reformed or outright withdrawn from, replaced with bilateral agreements. Furthermore, any agreement requires strong dispute mechanisms and punishments. I've expressed a great amount of detail for American politicians to be aware of, it's up to them to defend their economy and sovereignty at this point.

I'm trying to make sense of this - why does a Canadian complain about policy that by your own argument greatly benefits Canada? It's like an American complaining that NAFTA is too generous to America.

Some fun facts about what we are talking about here:

Currently Canada and America trade about 550 billion worth of goods with only about 2% trade surplus for Canada (12 billion).

You are proposing a huge disruption to this 550 billion trade (thats without even taking into account the Mexican side of this) just by unilateral decision by Trump. To me that seems like a totally insane idea.

We can look at some particular aspects of NAFTA, we can look to rework some parts of the agreement but simply pulling out will do serious harm.

Put it this way, Canada is stabbing you in the back. You might not know it, you probably don't believe it, but they are. NAFTA has made it much easier for Canada to exploit the U.S economy and they have been so arrogant about this fact that even when I made them aware a decade ago that if they didn't act on what I knew then I would start educating American politicians, they simply ruined my and my wifes life. The election of Trump sent a strong message that the party could be over and my guess is the genie will not be put back in the bottle from this day forward, even after this administration leaves.

I complain because I know Canada is NOT a leader in capitalism and individual liberty, only America can protect and broaden these vital principles. A nation like Canada cannot preach what it does not practice.

As to the cost of big disruption of 550 billion dollar trade between Canada and America you say...what exactly?

I say, I'm a big believer in free and fair trade. It's one of the reasons I gave Canada the opportunity to right the wrong domestically before I communicated with America and the E.U (see CETA, I advised them as I would advise America to be weary of the grievance process).

In regards to what is happening with American workers and U.S businesses employing citizens from other countries with no strong business argument that I can see, I say you better focus a great deal on the "fair" in these deals. As of now, Canada is fleecing you, and entering your businesses, tampering with your HR and undermining your businesses. Full stop. It would be safe to assume that if they are engaging in such tactics against the most iconic U.S corporations that they are taking it a step further, to whatever extent they wish.

In short, I would be extremely caution before I opened up any technological development centres in Canada, as we saw recently by Ford in Ottawa where they were giving a couple of hundred million dollars by Canada to open up an engineering research and development center in Ottawa, this is literally walking into a hornets nest, the most policed and spied on city in Canada. Would anyone be surprised if any of these developed technologies find their way to another nation before production stage? Based on what I have personally experienced and know, I would not be surprised at all. The source of such leaks would be up for debate.

 

[AntonToo]

Trump didn't leave TPP as there wasn't TPP. What he abandoned was the ADOPTION of TPP.

I know it seems like a simple thing from the comfort of your couch but abrupt quitting of very much implemented and integrated NAFTA would be a HUGE near-to-medium term economic disruption and wreck a lot of companies. It would be a political disaster for Trump on both domestic and foreign policy fronts.

Also, Trump himself most likely CAN'T quit NAFTA as it was passed by Congress (via Implementation Act)

Free Trade must now be altered to Fair Trade. America is being fleeced, Canada has been laughing at the U.S for some time, "imagine, another country just GIVES us their jobs. Massive corporations in Toronto for no other reason than to employ the needy of Canada. Where do I sign up!?" It's not as if these jobs couldn't be done in America and these corporate leaders know this.

Canadian and provincial officials give money, cash, into the hands of corporations in order to come to Canada and take your tax base from you. No innovation from Canada needed, hell, we don't even have our own domestic auto industry. When I was having a discussion about this topic with a Canadian lady she told me "what are you talking about we have GM, they are a big presence in Ontario". I told her, "yes, GM was founded and began in America, they are an American company". She was so lost and argumentative on this point, "no they are Canadian". This poor soul doesn't even realize how lost she is.

If there is a strong dispute mechanism that allows whistleblowers to expose abuses, it would go a long way to defending trade. The world would learn just how protectionist Canada is, we pretend to be a free market, capitalist system, but we are really a neo-communist, socialist system in the shape of a Bernie or Warren.

For Canada, Free Trade is great, as we can use our centralized government and it's patsies to enter your businesses, steal your technology (sell it to other nations I'm sure), control your workforce, reward the government loyalists and undermine your business operations. Please, send us MORE of your jobs, we can't get enough of them! You might as well have a free trade agreement with Russia or North Korea, at least then you would EXPECT them to enter your corporation and interference with your business and personal pursuits.

What does Canada do to contribute to this ecosystem? Nothing, we just let you spend the money on R&D, innovation and capitalism, and we will leech all we can while sending you oil, lumber, and dairy, the last two industries heavily controlled and sponsored by the government (you don't expect us to subject our industries to free market competition do you?!). CSIS the RCMP and their cowardly surrogates, all willing enemies of capitalism and the Right to Self Determination of U.S businesses. While your tax base shrinks and dependents grow.

NAFTA for the sake of America's future and Western liberty, has to be drastically reformed or outright withdrawn from, replaced with bilateral agreements. Furthermore, any agreement requires strong dispute mechanisms and punishments. I've expressed a great amount of detail for American politicians to be aware of, it's up to them to defend their economy and sovereignty at this point.

I'm trying to make sense of this - why does a Canadian complain about policy that by your own argument greatly benefits Canada? It's like an American complaining that NAFTA is too generous to America.

Some fun facts about what we are talking about here:

Currently Canada and America trade about 550 billion worth of goods with only about 2% trade surplus for Canada (12 billion).

You are proposing a huge disruption to this 550 billion trade (thats without even taking into account the Mexican side of this) just by unilateral decision by Trump. To me that seems like a totally insane idea.

We can look at some particular aspects of NAFTA, we can look to rework some parts of the agreement but simply pulling out will do serious harm.

Put it this way, Canada is stabbing you in the back. You might not know it, you probably don't believe it, but they are. NAFTA has made it much easier for Canada to exploit the U.S economy and they have been so arrogant about this fact that even when I made them aware a decade ago that if they didn't act on what I knew then I would start educating American politicians, they simply ruined my and my wifes life. The election of Trump sent a strong message that the party could be over and my guess is the genie will not be put back in the bottle from this day forward, even after this administration leaves.

I complain because I know Canada is NOT a leader in capitalism and individual liberty, only America can protect and broaden these vital principles. A nation like Canada cannot preach what it does not practice.

As to the cost of big disruption of 550 billion dollar trade between Canada and America you say...what exactly?

I say, I'm a big believer in free and fair trade. It's one of the reasons I gave Canada the opportunity to right the wrong domestically before I communicated with America and the E.U (see CETA, I advised them as I would advise America to be weary of the grievance process).

In regards to what is happening with American workers and U.S businesses employing citizens from other countries with no strong business argument that I can see, I say you better focus a great deal on the "fair" in these deals. As of now, Canada is fleecing you, and entering your businesses, tampering with your HR and undermining your businesses. Full stop. It would be safe to assume that if they are engaging in such tactics against the most iconic U.S corporations that they are taking it a step further, to whatever extent they wish.

In short, I would be extremely caution before I opened up any technological development centres in Canada, as we saw recently by Ford in Ottawa where they were giving a couple of hundred million dollars by Canada to open up an engineering research and development center in Ottawa, this is literally walking into a hornets nest, the most policed and spied on city in Canada. Would anyone be surprised if any of these developed technologies find their way to another nation before production stage? Based on what I have personally experienced and know, I would not be surprised at all. The source of such leaks would be up for debate.

I read what you are saying, but I still don't see a comment on the cost of abrupt withdrawal.

Canada buys from the United States $270 billion worth of goods, from American companies employing Americans. There ARE real upsides here and re-arrangement of many industries that would take place as tariffs get rolling will take a very long time to settle.

I don't have a problem at looking at specific issues of keeping a fair arrangement, but that hardly requires or warrants a withdrawal.

 

[shockedcanadian]

Free Trade must now be altered to Fair Trade. America is being fleeced, Canada has been laughing at the U.S for some time, "imagine, another country just GIVES us their jobs. Massive corporations in Toronto for no other reason than to employ the needy of Canada. Where do I sign up!?" It's not as if these jobs couldn't be done in America and these corporate leaders know this.

Canadian and provincial officials give money, cash, into the hands of corporations in order to come to Canada and take your tax base from you. No innovation from Canada needed, hell, we don't even have our own domestic auto industry. When I was having a discussion about this topic with a Canadian lady she told me "what are you talking about we have GM, they are a big presence in Ontario". I told her, "yes, GM was founded and began in America, they are an American company". She was so lost and argumentative on this point, "no they are Canadian". This poor soul doesn't even realize how lost she is.

If there is a strong dispute mechanism that allows whistleblowers to expose abuses, it would go a long way to defending trade. The world would learn just how protectionist Canada is, we pretend to be a free market, capitalist system, but we are really a neo-communist, socialist system in the shape of a Bernie or Warren.

For Canada, Free Trade is great, as we can use our centralized government and it's patsies to enter your businesses, steal your technology (sell it to other nations I'm sure), control your workforce, reward the government loyalists and undermine your business operations. Please, send us MORE of your jobs, we can't get enough of them! You might as well have a free trade agreement with Russia or North Korea, at least then you would EXPECT them to enter your corporation and interference with your business and personal pursuits.

What does Canada do to contribute to this ecosystem? Nothing, we just let you spend the money on R&D, innovation and capitalism, and we will leech all we can while sending you oil, lumber, and dairy, the last two industries heavily controlled and sponsored by the government (you don't expect us to subject our industries to free market competition do you?!). CSIS the RCMP and their cowardly surrogates, all willing enemies of capitalism and the Right to Self Determination of U.S businesses. While your tax base shrinks and dependents grow.

NAFTA for the sake of America's future and Western liberty, has to be drastically reformed or outright withdrawn from, replaced with bilateral agreements. Furthermore, any agreement requires strong dispute mechanisms and punishments. I've expressed a great amount of detail for American politicians to be aware of, it's up to them to defend their economy and sovereignty at this point.

I'm trying to make sense of this - why does a Canadian complain about policy that by your own argument greatly benefits Canada? It's like an American complaining that NAFTA is too generous to America.

Some fun facts about what we are talking about here:

Currently Canada and America trade about 550 billion worth of goods with only about 2% trade surplus for Canada (12 billion).

You are proposing a huge disruption to this 550 billion trade (thats without even taking into account the Mexican side of this) just by unilateral decision by Trump. To me that seems like a totally insane idea.

We can look at some particular aspects of NAFTA, we can look to rework some parts of the agreement but simply pulling out will do serious harm.

Put it this way, Canada is stabbing you in the back. You might not know it, you probably don't believe it, but they are. NAFTA has made it much easier for Canada to exploit the U.S economy and they have been so arrogant about this fact that even when I made them aware a decade ago that if they didn't act on what I knew then I would start educating American politicians, they simply ruined my and my wifes life. The election of Trump sent a strong message that the party could be over and my guess is the genie will not be put back in the bottle from this day forward, even after this administration leaves.

I complain because I know Canada is NOT a leader in capitalism and individual liberty, only America can protect and broaden these vital principles. A nation like Canada cannot preach what it does not practice.

As to the cost of big disruption of 550 billion dollar trade between Canada and America you say...what exactly?

I say, I'm a big believer in free and fair trade. It's one of the reasons I gave Canada the opportunity to right the wrong domestically before I communicated with America and the E.U (see CETA, I advised them as I would advise America to be weary of the grievance process).

In regards to what is happening with American workers and U.S businesses employing citizens from other countries with no strong business argument that I can see, I say you better focus a great deal on the "fair" in these deals. As of now, Canada is fleecing you, and entering your businesses, tampering with your HR and undermining your businesses. Full stop. It would be safe to assume that if they are engaging in such tactics against the most iconic U.S corporations that they are taking it a step further, to whatever extent they wish.

In short, I would be extremely caution before I opened up any technological development centres in Canada, as we saw recently by Ford in Ottawa where they were giving a couple of hundred million dollars by Canada to open up an engineering research and development center in Ottawa, this is literally walking into a hornets nest, the most policed and spied on city in Canada. Would anyone be surprised if any of these developed technologies find their way to another nation before production stage? Based on what I have personally experienced and know, I would not be surprised at all. The source of such leaks would be up for debate.

I read what you are saying, but I still don't see a comment on the cost of abrupt withdrawal.

Canada buys from the United States $270 billion worth of goods, from American companies employing Americans. There ARE real upsides here and re-arrangement of many industries that would take place as tariffs get rolling will take a very long time to settle.

I don't have a problem at looking at specific issues of keeping a fair arrangement, but that hardly requires or warrants a withdrawal.

Yes, trade based on shared values is vital, however, we don't share your values. Well, let me be more accurate, I share your values and there are many like me. Our security apparatus and the centralized government of all stripes which it supports, does not support your values.

So, when you are a nation a nation based on liberty, Right of Self Determination, Pursuit of Happiness, Due Process, Rule of Law and capitalism, how do you expect to have an equal trade deal with a nation that doesn't believe in these premises?

Even more specifically, if and when Canadian operatives enter American corporations interfere with your operation, undermine your competitiveness, stack your businesses with state agents, including at the HR level, push anti-Americanism and unions when there is no natural desire for such arrangements, what should be the consequences? You give MORE jobs and research exposure to such a nefarious nation?