If Social Security Had Been In Private Accounts The Stock Market Drop Could Have Been A Disaster

[nat4900]

Yes, Chile's Private Pension Model Works, Big Time

"Pensions: In Chile, a major study shows the nation's private retirement accounts provide workers pensions worth 87% of their salaries, 73% of that from profits on savings. So much for the canard about the perils of markets."

Chile: using free enterprise. If only we were as open to free enterprise as Chile

If Only

From a NYT article regarding Chile's private pension plan.......

Many young people, who should be enrolling in the system early to accrue maximum benefit, are staying out or paying in very little. Some cannot afford to contribute beyond the obligatory minimum payment, which is 10 percent of wages, while others are either self-employed or have been hired by companies as low-paid independent contract workers and thus do not have to contribute at all.
"The bottom line is that this system does not work with this labor market," said Andras Uthoff, an economist who is director of the social development division of the UN Economic Commission for Latin America here. If current trends continue, he added, "only a small percentage of people are going to be able to finance meaningful pensions. What happens then to the rest?"
As a result of such doubts, attacking the pension system and especially the perceived excesses of the funds has become a surefire source of votes. One of the big winners in the first round of the election last month, for example, was Guido Girardi, a senator-elect and Bachelet supporter who has taken upon himself the role of scourge of the private management funds.
"I am going to do away with these thieves in jackets and ties," Girardi said. "We are going to defend the citizenry from these funds that rob people of their pensions."

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/01/10/world/americas/10iht-chile.html?_r=0

 

[nat4900]

Yes, Chile's Private Pension Model Works, Big Time

"Pensions: In Chile, a major study shows the nation's private retirement accounts provide workers pensions worth 87% of their salaries, 73% of that from profits on savings. So much for the canard about the perils of markets."

Chile: using free enterprise. If only we were as open to free enterprise as Chile

If Only

Wait for Dad2three to be all over you with a bunch of bullshit propaganda claiming the Chilean system is worse than Social Security.

I wonder if right wingers on here would be happy with (based on the Chilean pension plan) they were MANDATED by the government to put in TEN PERCENT of their salary......LOL

 

[David_42]

Global Health Observatory Data Repository
Up to date.

Here's a source from 2011:

And mines from 2015.

So where does the United States rank in your data?

Yeah, that's right, you can't tell us.

What the fuck? I sent you the data, look at it, moron. I'm not going to spoon feed you, you'll claim its propaganda.

If you can't post a graph like the one above, then go fuck yourself. You can't even tell us what position the U.S. is in based on your data. The data in my graph is sufficiently recent enough for the purpose of this discussion, and it shows your claim is dead wrong.

What the?.. I'm sending you up to date data from one of the most relevant organizations, Wikipedia compiles a list from this data if you want it:

List of countries by life expectancy - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[bripat9643]

According to the chart below, the United States ranks 18th in terms of life expectancy. The 34th ranking you refer to is a bogus statistic published by the WHO that ranks healthcare systems largely by irrelevant criteria like how socialist they are.

1997? healthsentinel.com? LOL.

I knew you were going to attack the source.

Provide your own statistics.

Global Health Observatory Data Repository
Up to date.

Right.... and now levelize that data for fatal injuries.... and we'll talk.

All you did was post raw data, that doesn't account for the differences in culture and life style that we were talking about.

Keep attempting to justify the millions of lives ruined due to healthcare debt. Oh, so fatal injuries mean nothing? Other countries obviously do something right.

Why would I have to justify something that isn't my fault? That's like asking me to justify a hurricane or an Earthquake. Bad things happen to people. That's a fact of life.

Furthermore, most of the bankruptcies you attribute to medical expenses were actually the result of something else.

 

[bripat9643]

Yes, Chile's Private Pension Model Works, Big Time

"Pensions: In Chile, a major study shows the nation's private retirement accounts provide workers pensions worth 87% of their salaries, 73% of that from profits on savings. So much for the canard about the perils of markets."

Chile: using free enterprise. If only we were as open to free enterprise as Chile

If Only

Wait for Dad2three to be all over you with a bunch of bullshit propaganda claiming the Chilean system is worse than Social Security.

I wonder if right wingers on here would be happy with (based on the Chilean pension plan) they were MANDATED by the government to put in TEN PERCENT of their salary......LOL

We're already mandated to put in 14% of our salaries to the world's biggest Ponzi scheme.

 

[bripat9643]

Here's a source from 2011:

And mines from 2015.

So where does the United States rank in your data?

Yeah, that's right, you can't tell us.

What the fuck? I sent you the data, look at it, moron. I'm not going to spoon feed you, you'll claim its propaganda.

If you can't post a graph like the one above, then go fuck yourself. You can't even tell us what position the U.S. is in based on your data. The data in my graph is sufficiently recent enough for the purpose of this discussion, and it shows your claim is dead wrong.

What the?.. I'm sending you up to date data from one of the most relevant organizations, Wikipedia compiles a list from this data if you want it:

List of countries by life expectancy - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

If you don't have something in easily digestible form, then quit wasting our time.

You still haven't told us what the ranking of the U.S. is based on your data. That's because it would take half a day to produce that information.

Produce something digestible or go fuck yourself.

 

[Andylusion]

Yes, Chile's Private Pension Model Works, Big Time

"Pensions: In Chile, a major study shows the nation's private retirement accounts provide workers pensions worth 87% of their salaries, 73% of that from profits on savings. So much for the canard about the perils of markets."

Chile: using free enterprise. If only we were as open to free enterprise as Chile

If Only

Wait for Dad2three to be all over you with a bunch of bullshit propaganda claiming the Chilean system is worse than Social Security.

I wonder if right wingers on here would be happy with (based on the Chilean pension plan) they were MANDATED by the government to put in TEN PERCENT of their salary......LOL

Huh? Do you not realize that right now, you already put in 12.4%?

Um... yes... I would greatly prefer 10% over 12.4%.

But moreover, I would prefer the money placed into an account of my own, rather than given to government to blow, and spend on Solyndra and whatever.

Now you are correct that if all things were options... I'd rather have the ability to opt-out completely. But without that option, yes I would greatly prefer my own account, over the government politicians getting my money.

I'd prefer the Chilean system, if the tax was 15%, over 12.4% going to politicians.

 

[Andylusion]

According to the chart below, the United States ranks 18th in terms of life expectancy. The 34th ranking you refer to is a bogus statistic published by the WHO that ranks healthcare systems largely by irrelevant criteria like how socialist they are.

1997? healthsentinel.com? LOL.

I knew you were going to attack the source.

Provide your own statistics.

Global Health Observatory Data Repository
Up to date.

Right.... and now levelize that data for fatal injuries.... and we'll talk.

All you did was post raw data, that doesn't account for the differences in culture and life style that we were talking about.

Keep attempting to justify the millions of lives ruined due to healthcare debt. Oh, so fatal injuries mean nothing? Other countries obviously do something right.

Again, if you are going to demand others justify stuff.... then that applies to you.

Ok, justify it! Your turn to justify people following your ideology and ruining their entire country.

JUSTIFY IT

 

[Andylusion]

Yes, Chile's Private Pension Model Works, Big Time

"Pensions: In Chile, a major study shows the nation's private retirement accounts provide workers pensions worth 87% of their salaries, 73% of that from profits on savings. So much for the canard about the perils of markets."

Chile: using free enterprise. If only we were as open to free enterprise as Chile

If Only

From a NYT article regarding Chile's private pension plan.......

Many young people, who should be enrolling in the system early to accrue maximum benefit, are staying out or paying in very little. Some cannot afford to contribute beyond the obligatory minimum payment, which is 10 percent of wages, while others are either self-employed or have been hired by companies as low-paid independent contract workers and thus do not have to contribute at all.
"The bottom line is that this system does not work with this labor market," said Andras Uthoff, an economist who is director of the social development division of the UN Economic Commission for Latin America here. If current trends continue, he added, "only a small percentage of people are going to be able to finance meaningful pensions. What happens then to the rest?"
As a result of such doubts, attacking the pension system and especially the perceived excesses of the funds has become a surefire source of votes. One of the big winners in the first round of the election last month, for example, was Guido Girardi, a senator-elect and Bachelet supporter who has taken upon himself the role of scourge of the private management funds.
"I am going to do away with these thieves in jackets and ties," Girardi said. "We are going to defend the citizenry from these funds that rob people of their pensions."

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/01/10/world/americas/10iht-chile.html?_r=0

Here's the problem...... right now Chili has a state funded pension safety net. If someone does not have enough money in retirement, so that they run out of money.... the state picks up with a minimum monthly pension.

That system is no different in any way, than our current system. That's Social Security right there.

The key difference is, so few people run out of retirement, that the state has almost no pension payouts at all.

The system is working so well, that no one is using the State funded system.

So all that crap you just pasted on here, without fact checking it... doesn't matter. It's wrong. Sorry, the story is wrong.

 

[David_42]

1997? healthsentinel.com? LOL.

I knew you were going to attack the source.

Provide your own statistics.

Global Health Observatory Data Repository
Up to date.

Right.... and now levelize that data for fatal injuries.... and we'll talk.

All you did was post raw data, that doesn't account for the differences in culture and life style that we were talking about.

Keep attempting to justify the millions of lives ruined due to healthcare debt. Oh, so fatal injuries mean nothing? Other countries obviously do something right.

Why would I have to justify something that isn't my fault? That's like asking me to justify a hurricane or an Earthquake. Bad things happen to people. That's a fact of life.

Furthermore, most of the bankruptcies you attribute to medical expenses were actually the result of something else.

Bullshit.

 

[nat4900]

Yes, Chile's Private Pension Model Works, Big Time

"Pensions: In Chile, a major study shows the nation's private retirement accounts provide workers pensions worth 87% of their salaries, 73% of that from profits on savings. So much for the canard about the perils of markets."

Chile: using free enterprise. If only we were as open to free enterprise as Chile

If Only

Wait for Dad2three to be all over you with a bunch of bullshit propaganda claiming the Chilean system is worse than Social Security.

I wonder if right wingers on here would be happy with (based on the Chilean pension plan) they were MANDATED by the government to put in TEN PERCENT of their salary......LOL

We're already mandated to put in 14% of our salaries to the world's biggest Ponzi scheme.

The moron above pulls "facts" out of his ass.....Maximum contribution for SS is 6.2%.....and that is ONLY up to the first $117K.

(I am sure that right wing morons are pulling state, county and city taxes into the mix because.....well, because they're morons.)

 

[David_42]

1997? healthsentinel.com? LOL.

I knew you were going to attack the source.

Provide your own statistics.

Global Health Observatory Data Repository
Up to date.

Right.... and now levelize that data for fatal injuries.... and we'll talk.

All you did was post raw data, that doesn't account for the differences in culture and life style that we were talking about.

Keep attempting to justify the millions of lives ruined due to healthcare debt. Oh, so fatal injuries mean nothing? Other countries obviously do something right.

Again, if you are going to demand others justify stuff.... then that applies to you.

View attachment 49290 View attachment 49291 View attachment 49292 View attachment 49293 View attachment 49294 View attachment 49295

Ok, justify it! Your turn to justify people following your ideology and ruining their entire country.

JUSTIFY IT

Keep cherrypicking Greece and ignore context/the rest of the world.

 

[David_42]

And mines from 2015.

So where does the United States rank in your data?

Yeah, that's right, you can't tell us.

What the fuck? I sent you the data, look at it, moron. I'm not going to spoon feed you, you'll claim its propaganda.

If you can't post a graph like the one above, then go fuck yourself. You can't even tell us what position the U.S. is in based on your data. The data in my graph is sufficiently recent enough for the purpose of this discussion, and it shows your claim is dead wrong.

What the?.. I'm sending you up to date data from one of the most relevant organizations, Wikipedia compiles a list from this data if you want it:

List of countries by life expectancy - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

If you don't have something in easily digestible form, then quit wasting our time.

You still haven't told us what the ranking of the U.S. is based on your data. That's because it would take half a day to produce that information.

Produce something digestible or go fuck yourself.

It's right on the page idiot.

 

[SwimExpert]

If Social Security Had Been In Private Accounts The Stock Market Drop Could Have Been A Disaster

Only for the guy who put his money into the account right at the beginning of the drop, and took it out right after the drop.

Do you know anybody who did that with any of their investments (401K etc.)?

I didn't think so.

Thanks for the hysterical "THE SKY IS FALLING" analysis with no connection to the real world.

Hell, in this day and age, a decent investment firm will have sufficiently diversified funds you can invest in that pretty much never take a major hit, regardless of what the overall stock market is doing. And as long as you, yourself, keep your money in the correct types of funds, appropriate for your age and retirement plans, you're never going to have to worry about short term economic downturns. If 90% of your retirement fund is invested in stocks when you're 60 years old, you're a fucking idiot and deserve whatever bad comes to you.

 

[David_42]

If Social Security Had Been In Private Accounts The Stock Market Drop Could Have Been A Disaster

Only for the guy who put his money into the account right at the beginning of the drop, and took it out right after the drop.

Do you know anybody who did that with any of their investments (401K etc.)?

I didn't think so.

Thanks for the hysterical "THE SKY IS FALLING" analysis with no connection to the real world.

Hell, in this day and age, a decent investment firm will have sufficiently diversified funds you can invest in that pretty much never take a major hit, regardless of what the overall stock market is doing. And as long as you, yourself, keep your money in the correct types of funds, appropriate for your age and retirement plans, you're never going to have to worry about short term economic downturns. If 90% of your retirement fund is invested in stocks when you're 60 years old, you're a fucking idiot and deserve whatever bad comes to you.

We can't expect people to know how to do this, hell, con artists are everywhere..

 

[SwimExpert]

We can't expect people to know how to do this, hell, con artists are everywhere..

Why not? It's extremely simple. And if you need guidance, most investment firms will have resources to help educate you. You can start an account with as little as $100.

 

[nat4900]

Yes, Chile's Private Pension Model Works, Big Time

"Pensions: In Chile, a major study shows the nation's private retirement accounts provide workers pensions worth 87% of their salaries, 73% of that from profits on savings. So much for the canard about the perils of markets."

Chile: using free enterprise. If only we were as open to free enterprise as Chile

If Only

From a NYT article regarding Chile's private pension plan.......

Many young people, who should be enrolling in the system early to accrue maximum benefit, are staying out or paying in very little. Some cannot afford to contribute beyond the obligatory minimum payment, which is 10 percent of wages, while others are either self-employed or have been hired by companies as low-paid independent contract workers and thus do not have to contribute at all.
"The bottom line is that this system does not work with this labor market," said Andras Uthoff, an economist who is director of the social development division of the UN Economic Commission for Latin America here. If current trends continue, he added, "only a small percentage of people are going to be able to finance meaningful pensions. What happens then to the rest?"
As a result of such doubts, attacking the pension system and especially the perceived excesses of the funds has become a surefire source of votes. One of the big winners in the first round of the election last month, for example, was Guido Girardi, a senator-elect and Bachelet supporter who has taken upon himself the role of scourge of the private management funds.
"I am going to do away with these thieves in jackets and ties," Girardi said. "We are going to defend the citizenry from these funds that rob people of their pensions."

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/01/10/world/americas/10iht-chile.html?_r=0

Here's the problem...... right now Chili has a state funded pension safety net. If someone does not have enough money in retirement, so that they run out of money.... the state picks up with a minimum monthly pension.

That system is no different in any way, than our current system. That's Social Security right there.

The key difference is, so few people run out of retirement, that the state has almost no pension payouts at all.

The system is working so well, that no one is using the State funded system.

So all that crap you just pasted on here, without fact checking it... doesn't matter. It's wrong. Sorry, the story is wrong.

Read that damn article again....or ask a grown-up to explain it to you.
(I have a hard time dealing with idiots.)

 

[David_42]

We can't expect people to know how to do this, hell, con artists are everywhere..

Why not? It's extremely simple. And if you need guidance, most investment firms will have resources to help educate you. You can start an account with as little as $100.

It requires finding someone trusted to help you manage knowing what's happening in the market.. I'm fine with people doing it, but we need to keep SS.

 

[Kosh]

Yes, Chile's Private Pension Model Works, Big Time

"Pensions: In Chile, a major study shows the nation's private retirement accounts provide workers pensions worth 87% of their salaries, 73% of that from profits on savings. So much for the canard about the perils of markets."

Chile: using free enterprise. If only we were as open to free enterprise as Chile

If Only

Wait for Dad2three to be all over you with a bunch of bullshit propaganda claiming the Chilean system is worse than Social Security.

I wonder if right wingers on here would be happy with (based on the Chilean pension plan) they were MANDATED by the government to put in TEN PERCENT of their salary......LOL

We're already mandated to put in 14% of our salaries to the world's biggest Ponzi scheme.

The moron above pulls "facts" out of his ass.....Maximum contribution for SS is 6.2%.....and that is ONLY up to the first $117K.

(I am sure that right wing morons are pulling state, county and city taxes into the mix because.....well, because they're morons.)

Talk about pulling numbers out of thin air..

The OASDI tax rate for wages paid in 2015 is set by statute at 6.2 percent for employees and employers, each.The OASDI tax rate for self-employment income in 2015 is 12.4 percent.

For Medicare's Hospital Insurance (HI) program, the taxable maximum was the same as that for the OASDI program for 1966-1990. Separate HI taxable maximums of $125,000, $130,200, and $135,000 were applicable in 1991-93, respectively. After 1993, there has been no limitation on HI-taxable earnings. Tax rates under the HI program are 1.45 percent for employees and employers, each, and 2.90 percent for self-employed persons.

Contribution and Benefit Base

Silly far left drones..

 

[Kosh]

We can't expect people to know how to do this, hell, con artists are everywhere..

Why not? It's extremely simple. And if you need guidance, most investment firms will have resources to help educate you. You can start an account with as little as $100.

It requires finding someone trusted to help you manage knowing what's happening in the market.. I'm fine with people doing it, but we need to keep SS.

See how delusional the far left drones are?

So you want to keep al the IOU's that are in the trust fund?