If God made the universe, who made God?

[Two Thumbs]

Thanks for posting your 'I hate god and religion' thread after Easter.

most of you dickbags like to do it during, so it shows you have a modicum of humanity

Where do you see this "hate"?

Other than your own post I mean.

leftist dickbags hate on god and religion everyday

I thanked him for waiting until after easter


and really, this is an old question. I first heard it in the 70's?

 

[Bruce_T_Laney]

The abstract notion of God and Lord were created by "The One Without End" because the creation was not created with the ability to know the true essence of the Creator.

Chaos is God and the people of that day adapted many religions from Sumerian, Babylonian, and Greek, and even Egyptian...

The stories are guidelines to teach us from right from wrong and are not literal and if anyone believe these stories are true is living prof why I support abortion!

You are correct concerning guideline.
When I meet an original Sumerian, Babylonian, Greek, or even Egyptian, I'll ask them.

When you build that time machine let me go back to 1907 to bet on the fact the Cubs will not win another world series after 1908!

Come on Rabbi give me a harder time will ya!

 

[Indeependent]

It's a question, people say the universe is so complex it couldn't just have made itself, it must have been made by someone or something.

But then if God is complex enough to make the universe, then he himself must be extremely complex and therefore, under the same logic, he must have been made by someone or something that was also extremely complex (probably more complex than the god that was made, you'd think).

So who made God?

Dear frigidweirdo
If something made God then you take that thing to be the supreme and reset the
definition of God at that point.
If something made that God, then you reset the definition of God to be at the higher level
if by definition you are using God to mean the supreme absolute that encompasses all other things.

If you keep doing this, ad infinitum, that is where the definition/meaning of God
comes from that God is "infinite" with "no beginning and no end."

The whole universe, all of creation and the processes can be counted and called God.

Whatever your ultimate source is for your frame of reference, the highest point is called God.
And in someone else's system, their highest point or whatever is in absolute control is God in their system.

(And then you just align these different systems, and let each person use their own in harmony with everyone else's system for how they label and divide the world from individual to collective levels.)

I understand what you're saying.

However the point I'm making is that the universe could just exist, and those who say that God must exist to have created the universe, are at the same time saying that God just exists.

So, the idea that someone created God is the same as the idea that someone created the universe.

You can't separate these two ideas from each other. They're the same reasoning. The acceptance that something could just exist without having been created.

So if God could exist without being created, then the universe also could have existed without being created.

That's the reason the Torah starts with the phrase, "In the beginning".
You think God did not for see the Aristotelians?

God is Anu in Sumerian !

The Sumerian are GoNe!

 

[Bruce_T_Laney]

So what?

Can you write in Sumerian or speak it?

Some Aramaic, which is what the Talmud is written in.
Some of the names in the Torah of Sumerian origin.
What does this have to do with Dog?

Egypt and Moses!

You are saying the Creator of Existence is not capable of influencing nature?

I am saying we are the creature of the story!

Come on Rabbi make it harder for me, and call me what you want to call me!

Oh, I harbor no bad feelings.
You just know nothing about the issue you are discussing.
It's like today's headlines...200 newspaper will report the same event 200 ways.
The same with the descendants of Noah...they each wrote their own history.
Except none of them are around anymore except for the Jews.

Ummm, No!

You need to do better than that!

 

[Indeependent]

The abstract notion of God and Lord were created by "The One Without End" because the creation was not created with the ability to know the true essence of the Creator.

Chaos is God and the people of that day adapted many religions from Sumerian, Babylonian, and Greek, and even Egyptian...

The stories are guidelines to teach us from right from wrong and are not literal and if anyone believe these stories are true is living prof why I support abortion!

You are correct concerning guideline.
When I meet an original Sumerian, Babylonian, Greek, or even Egyptian, I'll ask them.

When you build that time machine let me go back to 1907 to bet on the fact the Cubs will not win another world series after 1908!

Come on Rabbi give me a harder time will ya!

You just ignored the fact that all of these "religions" are gone.
They all contained tainted ideals not expressed by God and are gone.
Of course you will continue to ignore this fact.

 

[Indeependent]

Some Aramaic, which is what the Talmud is written in.
Some of the names in the Torah of Sumerian origin.
What does this have to do with Dog?

Egypt and Moses!

You are saying the Creator of Existence is not capable of influencing nature?

I am saying we are the creature of the story!

Come on Rabbi make it harder for me, and call me what you want to call me!

Oh, I harbor no bad feelings.
You just know nothing about the issue you are discussing.
It's like today's headlines...200 newspaper will report the same event 200 ways.
The same with the descendants of Noah...they each wrote their own history.
Except none of them are around anymore except for the Jews.

Ummm, No!

You need to do better than that!

Nothing speaks louder than failure and these "religions" failed.
You'll have to try harder to convince me of their veracity.

 

[Bruce_T_Laney]

It's a question, people say the universe is so complex it couldn't just have made itself, it must have been made by someone or something.

But then if God is complex enough to make the universe, then he himself must be extremely complex and therefore, under the same logic, he must have been made by someone or something that was also extremely complex (probably more complex than the god that was made, you'd think).

So who made God?

Dear frigidweirdo
If something made God then you take that thing to be the supreme and reset the
definition of God at that point.
If something made that God, then you reset the definition of God to be at the higher level
if by definition you are using God to mean the supreme absolute that encompasses all other things.

If you keep doing this, ad infinitum, that is where the definition/meaning of God
comes from that God is "infinite" with "no beginning and no end."

The whole universe, all of creation and the processes can be counted and called God.

Whatever your ultimate source is for your frame of reference, the highest point is called God.
And in someone else's system, their highest point or whatever is in absolute control is God in their system.

(And then you just align these different systems, and let each person use their own in harmony with everyone else's system for how they label and divide the world from individual to collective levels.)

I understand what you're saying.

However the point I'm making is that the universe could just exist, and those who say that God must exist to have created the universe, are at the same time saying that God just exists.

So, the idea that someone created God is the same as the idea that someone created the universe.

You can't separate these two ideas from each other. They're the same reasoning. The acceptance that something could just exist without having been created.

So if God could exist without being created, then the universe also could have existed without being created.

That's the reason the Torah starts with the phrase, "In the beginning".
You think God did not for see the Aristotelians?

God is Anu in Sumerian !

The Sumerian are GoNe!

When You build that time machine ask Jacob Wives and tell me if it was Ishmael or Issac at the top of that damn mountain so I will know if God favor the Jews or Muslims!

Come on Rabbi do better!

 

[Indeependent]

Dear frigidweirdo
If something made God then you take that thing to be the supreme and reset the
definition of God at that point.
If something made that God, then you reset the definition of God to be at the higher level
if by definition you are using God to mean the supreme absolute that encompasses all other things.

If you keep doing this, ad infinitum, that is where the definition/meaning of God
comes from that God is "infinite" with "no beginning and no end."

The whole universe, all of creation and the processes can be counted and called God.

Whatever your ultimate source is for your frame of reference, the highest point is called God.
And in someone else's system, their highest point or whatever is in absolute control is God in their system.

(And then you just align these different systems, and let each person use their own in harmony with everyone else's system for how they label and divide the world from individual to collective levels.)

I understand what you're saying.

However the point I'm making is that the universe could just exist, and those who say that God must exist to have created the universe, are at the same time saying that God just exists.

So, the idea that someone created God is the same as the idea that someone created the universe.

You can't separate these two ideas from each other. They're the same reasoning. The acceptance that something could just exist without having been created.

So if God could exist without being created, then the universe also could have existed without being created.

That's the reason the Torah starts with the phrase, "In the beginning".
You think God did not for see the Aristotelians?

God is Anu in Sumerian !

The Sumerian are GoNe!

When You build that time machine ask Jacob Wives and tell me if it was Ishmael or Issac at the top of that damn mountain so I will know if God favor the Jews or Muslims!

Come on Rabbi do better!

Of course it was Yitzchak and of course you know nothing about the context.
We COULD discuss it right here and NOW if you'd like.
Or do you prefer coming up with yet another "witticism"?

 

[Bruce_T_Laney]

Egypt and Moses!

You are saying the Creator of Existence is not capable of influencing nature?

I am saying we are the creature of the story!

Come on Rabbi make it harder for me, and call me what you want to call me!

Oh, I harbor no bad feelings.
You just know nothing about the issue you are discussing.
It's like today's headlines...200 newspaper will report the same event 200 ways.
The same with the descendants of Noah...they each wrote their own history.
Except none of them are around anymore except for the Jews.

Ummm, No!

You need to do better than that!

Nothing speaks louder than failure and these "religions" failed.
You'll have to try harder to convince me of their veracity.

The smallest Abrahamic Religion is the Children Israel, right Rabbi?

So with the Christian religion ( which is influenced by the roman empire ) and the Muslim ( which is influenced by, well do you know? ) being bigger which one will survive, and before you get cocky I was raised by Polish Jewish women, and damn it man they argued better than you!

 

[Bruce_T_Laney]

I understand what you're saying.

However the point I'm making is that the universe could just exist, and those who say that God must exist to have created the universe, are at the same time saying that God just exists.

So, the idea that someone created God is the same as the idea that someone created the universe.

You can't separate these two ideas from each other. They're the same reasoning. The acceptance that something could just exist without having been created.

So if God could exist without being created, then the universe also could have existed without being created.

That's the reason the Torah starts with the phrase, "In the beginning".
You think God did not for see the Aristotelians?

God is Anu in Sumerian !

The Sumerian are GoNe!

When You build that time machine ask Jacob Wives and tell me if it was Ishmael or Issac at the top of that damn mountain so I will know if God favor the Jews or Muslims!

Come on Rabbi do better!

Of course it was Yitzchak and of course you know nothing about the context.
We COULD discuss it right here and NOW if you'd like.
Or do you prefer coming up with yet another "witticism"?

You think I am witty, no...

I am being factual...

The Jewish religion is based on many religions and is not the oldest on the Earth...

You can write all you want about how you have the Tanakh to prove me wrong, but as I pointed out it has too much of mythology in it...

It does not take away the teachings of right from wrong, but do not be foolish to believe it is the word of God because it was written by man just like every holy book!

 

[Indeependent]

You are saying the Creator of Existence is not capable of influencing nature?

I am saying we are the creature of the story!

Come on Rabbi make it harder for me, and call me what you want to call me!

Oh, I harbor no bad feelings.
You just know nothing about the issue you are discussing.
It's like today's headlines...200 newspaper will report the same event 200 ways.
The same with the descendants of Noah...they each wrote their own history.
Except none of them are around anymore except for the Jews.

Ummm, No!

You need to do better than that!

Nothing speaks louder than failure and these "religions" failed.
You'll have to try harder to convince me of their veracity.

The smallest Abrahamic Religion is the Children Israel, right Rabbi?

So with the Christian religion ( which is influenced by the roman empire ) and the Muslim ( which is influenced by, well do you know? ) being bigger which one will survive, and before you get cocky I was raised by Polish Jewish women, and damn it man they argued better than you!

Your women obviously, and sadly, left you bereft of Biblical details.
I always enjoy it when self-hating, atheistic Jews tout their heritage.
I'm sure your great grandparents and other ancestors are kvelling over your abandonment of a belief they held and practiced for over 2,000 years, so that statement of yours falls flat on it's face.
You don't read your Torah so you don't even KNOW that God purposely made us very small in number because the majority of humanity could never live up to God's Gold Standard.

 

[Indeependent]

That's the reason the Torah starts with the phrase, "In the beginning".
You think God did not for see the Aristotelians?

God is Anu in Sumerian !

The Sumerian are GoNe!

When You build that time machine ask Jacob Wives and tell me if it was Ishmael or Issac at the top of that damn mountain so I will know if God favor the Jews or Muslims!

Come on Rabbi do better!

Of course it was Yitzchak and of course you know nothing about the context.
We COULD discuss it right here and NOW if you'd like.
Or do you prefer coming up with yet another "witticism"?

You think I am witty, no...

I am being factual...

The Jewish religion is based on many religions and is not the oldest on the Earth...

You can write all you want about how you have the Tanakh to prove me wrong, but as I pointed out it has too much of mythology in it...

It does not take away the teachings of right from wrong, but do not be foolish to believe it is the word of God because it was written by man just like every holy book!

Wit is a facet you need to develop.
You think trading witticism is the way to communicate knowledge?
Good, try opening a Medical School based on witticisms.

You must prove to me that the Torah was written by God...you have thus far failed because you don't even know what's in it.

 

[Indeependent]

That's the reason the Torah starts with the phrase, "In the beginning".
You think God did not for see the Aristotelians?

God is Anu in Sumerian !

The Sumerian are GoNe!

When You build that time machine ask Jacob Wives and tell me if it was Ishmael or Issac at the top of that damn mountain so I will know if God favor the Jews or Muslims!

Come on Rabbi do better!

Of course it was Yitzchak and of course you know nothing about the context.
We COULD discuss it right here and NOW if you'd like.
Or do you prefer coming up with yet another "witticism"?

You think I am witty, no...

I am being factual...

The Jewish religion is based on many religions and is not the oldest on the Earth...

You can write all you want about how you have the Tanakh to prove me wrong, but as I pointed out it has too much of mythology in it...

It does not take away the teachings of right from wrong, but do not be foolish to believe it is the word of God because it was written by man just like every holy book!

You are correct as man was worshipping God in many variant forms from the beginning.
Unfortunately, those religions required actualized child sacrifice and global torture and murder of anyone who refused to join their religion.
And those religions are gone.
We also see thousands of forms of Christianity; and I'm talking incompatible.
I won't even bother discussing the barbaric, "religion of peace", Islam.

 

[cnm]

Abstract ideas is not an Infinite living Universe.... full of Life and different beings ......who has always been and will always be.

I tell ya' insignificant human beings .....can not create that.

Nope.

But it's absolutely no trouble to them to create its creator.

 

[Bruce_T_Laney]

I am saying we are the creature of the story!

Come on Rabbi make it harder for me, and call me what you want to call me!

Oh, I harbor no bad feelings.
You just know nothing about the issue you are discussing.
It's like today's headlines...200 newspaper will report the same event 200 ways.
The same with the descendants of Noah...they each wrote their own history.
Except none of them are around anymore except for the Jews.

Ummm, No!

You need to do better than that!

Nothing speaks louder than failure and these "religions" failed.
You'll have to try harder to convince me of their veracity.

The smallest Abrahamic Religion is the Children Israel, right Rabbi?

So with the Christian religion ( which is influenced by the roman empire ) and the Muslim ( which is influenced by, well do you know? ) being bigger which one will survive, and before you get cocky I was raised by Polish Jewish women, and damn it man they argued better than you!

Your women obviously, and sadly, left you bereft of Biblical details.
I always enjoy it when self-hating, atheistic Jews tout their heritage.
I'm sure your great grandparents and other ancestors are kvelling over your abandonment of a belief they held and practiced for over 2,000 years, so that statement of yours falls flat on it's face.
You don't read your Torah so you don't even KNOW that God purposely made us very small in number because the majority of humanity could never live up to God's Gold Standard.

Do better mate!

Meek shall inherit the Earth, and I had a choice to get cut at thirteen or stay Christian, well I did not get cut...

God is Chaos which is Anu, and to argue I am wrong is like arguing with a bull while you hold a red cape in front of me, and you know you have the sword but sometimes the bull wins...

Again the stories are meant to teach us right from wrong, but the rest is mythology.

You believe in a Divine so be it, and I respect that but this does not mean I agree with you.

Humans have to believe in something and we need a God so we can believe there is a purpose in life but in the end I can ask you to produce the word of God written by it and you can not, so what does that tell us?

You will argue there is a God, and I will argue there is not, and you will grab your Tanakh, and I will grab my Tanakh, and then our Jewish Prayer Books, and so on, and where will that leave us?

 

[Bruce_T_Laney]

God is Anu in Sumerian !

The Sumerian are GoNe!

When You build that time machine ask Jacob Wives and tell me if it was Ishmael or Issac at the top of that damn mountain so I will know if God favor the Jews or Muslims!

Come on Rabbi do better!

Of course it was Yitzchak and of course you know nothing about the context.
We COULD discuss it right here and NOW if you'd like.
Or do you prefer coming up with yet another "witticism"?

You think I am witty, no...

I am being factual...

The Jewish religion is based on many religions and is not the oldest on the Earth...

You can write all you want about how you have the Tanakh to prove me wrong, but as I pointed out it has too much of mythology in it...

It does not take away the teachings of right from wrong, but do not be foolish to believe it is the word of God because it was written by man just like every holy book!

You are correct as man was worshipping God in many variant forms from the beginning.
Unfortunately, those religions required actualized child sacrifice and global torture and murder of anyone who refused to join their religion.
And those religions are gone.
We also see thousands of forms of Christianity; and I'm talking incompatible.
I won't even bother discussing the barbaric, "religion of peace", Islam.

Tell me something and was it Isaac or Ishmael that God told Abraham to stop!?!

 

[Indeependent]

Oh, I harbor no bad feelings.
You just know nothing about the issue you are discussing.
It's like today's headlines...200 newspaper will report the same event 200 ways.
The same with the descendants of Noah...they each wrote their own history.
Except none of them are around anymore except for the Jews.

Ummm, No!

You need to do better than that!

Nothing speaks louder than failure and these "religions" failed.
You'll have to try harder to convince me of their veracity.

The smallest Abrahamic Religion is the Children Israel, right Rabbi?

So with the Christian religion ( which is influenced by the roman empire ) and the Muslim ( which is influenced by, well do you know? ) being bigger which one will survive, and before you get cocky I was raised by Polish Jewish women, and damn it man they argued better than you!

Your women obviously, and sadly, left you bereft of Biblical details.
I always enjoy it when self-hating, atheistic Jews tout their heritage.
I'm sure your great grandparents and other ancestors are kvelling over your abandonment of a belief they held and practiced for over 2,000 years, so that statement of yours falls flat on it's face.
You don't read your Torah so you don't even KNOW that God purposely made us very small in number because the majority of humanity could never live up to God's Gold Standard.

Do better mate!

Meek shall inherit the Earth, and I had a choice to get cut at thirteen or stay Christian, well I did not get cut...

God is Chaos which is Anu, and to argue I am wrong is like arguing with a bull while you hold a red cape in front of me, and you know you have the sword but sometimes the bull wins...

Again the stories are meant to teach us right from wrong, but the rest is mythology.

You believe in a Divine so be it, and I respect that but this does not mean I agree with you.

Humans have to believe in something and we need a God so we can believe there is a purpose in life but in the end I can ask you to produce the word of God written by it and you can not, so what does that tell us?

You will argue there is a God, and I will argue there is not, and you will grab your Tanakh, and I will grab my Tanakh, and then our Jewish Prayer Books, and so on, and where will that leave us?

I already explained the dispersion of Noah's children and you ignored the post.
The same thing has happened throughout the millennia so the reasoning is beyond refutation.

 

[Indeependent]

The Sumerian are GoNe!

When You build that time machine ask Jacob Wives and tell me if it was Ishmael or Issac at the top of that damn mountain so I will know if God favor the Jews or Muslims!

Come on Rabbi do better!

Of course it was Yitzchak and of course you know nothing about the context.
We COULD discuss it right here and NOW if you'd like.
Or do you prefer coming up with yet another "witticism"?

You think I am witty, no...

I am being factual...

The Jewish religion is based on many religions and is not the oldest on the Earth...

You can write all you want about how you have the Tanakh to prove me wrong, but as I pointed out it has too much of mythology in it...

It does not take away the teachings of right from wrong, but do not be foolish to believe it is the word of God because it was written by man just like every holy book!

You are correct as man was worshipping God in many variant forms from the beginning.
Unfortunately, those religions required actualized child sacrifice and global torture and murder of anyone who refused to join their religion.
And those religions are gone.
We also see thousands of forms of Christianity; and I'm talking incompatible.
I won't even bother discussing the barbaric, "religion of peace", Islam.

Tell me something and was it Isaac or Ishmael that God told Abraham to stop!?!

It was a Malach (Heavenly Messenger) as Avraham was in too stressed of a state to receive a statement directly from God.
Different levels of preparation lead to different levels of revelation.
Of course, Yitzchaz was 67 and Avraham was way over 100 and Yitzchak didn't kick his father's ass.

 

[Bruce_T_Laney]

Ummm, No!

You need to do better than that!

Nothing speaks louder than failure and these "religions" failed.
You'll have to try harder to convince me of their veracity.

The smallest Abrahamic Religion is the Children Israel, right Rabbi?

So with the Christian religion ( which is influenced by the roman empire ) and the Muslim ( which is influenced by, well do you know? ) being bigger which one will survive, and before you get cocky I was raised by Polish Jewish women, and damn it man they argued better than you!

Your women obviously, and sadly, left you bereft of Biblical details.
I always enjoy it when self-hating, atheistic Jews tout their heritage.
I'm sure your great grandparents and other ancestors are kvelling over your abandonment of a belief they held and practiced for over 2,000 years, so that statement of yours falls flat on it's face.
You don't read your Torah so you don't even KNOW that God purposely made us very small in number because the majority of humanity could never live up to God's Gold Standard.

Do better mate!

Meek shall inherit the Earth, and I had a choice to get cut at thirteen or stay Christian, well I did not get cut...

God is Chaos which is Anu, and to argue I am wrong is like arguing with a bull while you hold a red cape in front of me, and you know you have the sword but sometimes the bull wins...

Again the stories are meant to teach us right from wrong, but the rest is mythology.

You believe in a Divine so be it, and I respect that but this does not mean I agree with you.

Humans have to believe in something and we need a God so we can believe there is a purpose in life but in the end I can ask you to produce the word of God written by it and you can not, so what does that tell us?

You will argue there is a God, and I will argue there is not, and you will grab your Tanakh, and I will grab my Tanakh, and then our Jewish Prayer Books, and so on, and where will that leave us?

I already explained the dispersion of Noah's children and you ignored the post.
The same thing has happened throughout the millennia so the reasoning is beyond refutation.

You brought up child sacrifice and I ask which one was on the alter?

Was it Isaac or Ishmael?

Why?

Simple, the fact is God told Abraham to stop so which kid was there?

Jewish children will say Isaac and children of Islam will say Ishmael...

Now what does this have to do with the discussion?

Come on Rabbi and know I like you!

 

[Indeependent]

The Sumerian are GoNe!

When You build that time machine ask Jacob Wives and tell me if it was Ishmael or Issac at the top of that damn mountain so I will know if God favor the Jews or Muslims!

Come on Rabbi do better!

Of course it was Yitzchak and of course you know nothing about the context.
We COULD discuss it right here and NOW if you'd like.
Or do you prefer coming up with yet another "witticism"?

You think I am witty, no...

I am being factual...

The Jewish religion is based on many religions and is not the oldest on the Earth...

You can write all you want about how you have the Tanakh to prove me wrong, but as I pointed out it has too much of mythology in it...

It does not take away the teachings of right from wrong, but do not be foolish to believe it is the word of God because it was written by man just like every holy book!

You are correct as man was worshipping God in many variant forms from the beginning.
Unfortunately, those religions required actualized child sacrifice and global torture and murder of anyone who refused to join their religion.
And those religions are gone.
We also see thousands of forms of Christianity; and I'm talking incompatible.
I won't even bother discussing the barbaric, "religion of peace", Islam.

Tell me something and was it Isaac or Ishmael that God told Abraham to stop!?!

I just realized the wording of the question doesn't make sense.
Ishmael and Eliezer were left waiting with the donkey at a distance from the mountain.