I'd love to have cons give me their definition of conservative

[Conservative65]

Not talking about nature you dumb piece of shit. Nature in the sense you use it and natural in the sense of rights aren't the same thing.

Natural rights are those that come without and aren't contingent upon statutory laws, customs, beliefs of any culture or government, etc.

There is no such thing...

Perhaps you should tell that to Thomas Jefferson. He knows far more about it than you.

 

[PaintMyHouse]

Conservatism discards Prescription, shrinks from Principle, disavows Progress; having rejected all respect for antiquity, it offers no redress for the present, and makes no preparation for the future.
- Benjamin Disraeli

I don't have a problem with progress. I have made plenty of it. Progress is as much how you got there as where you are if not more. Someone on food stamps may have the food they need but they didn't get there for something they did but because of someone else doing it for them. That's not progress.

People not starving is progress. It's also a quarter-step if that is a handout.

People earning their way is progress. People being given something when they won't earn it isn't despite the results.

The poor will always be with you. The Bible, not me. I'm for as few as possible, that make their own way, and bread.

 

[PaintMyHouse]

Not talking about nature you dumb piece of shit. Nature in the sense you use it and natural in the sense of rights aren't the same thing.

Natural rights are those that come without and aren't contingent upon statutory laws, customs, beliefs of any culture or government, etc.

There is no such thing...

Perhaps you should tell that to Thomas Jefferson. He knows far more about it than you.

He's dead, and was wrong. Your fallacy is noted.

 

[PaintMyHouse]

Seems like we are discussing everything EXCEPT what conservatism is (the original topic of the thread).

Back to the subject:
What is conservatism? It's the idea that government should do as little as possible, and should confine its influence to areas where private people and groups cannot do what is needed.

Not just areas where the govt thinks it can do "better" than private people or groups. But areas where private people and groups can't do it at all.

Such as foreign relations, national defense, setting national standards, running courts, dispassionately prosecuting lawbreakers, etc.

In a word, protecting people's rights.

And conservatives know that not everything we want, even necessary things like food and health care, is a "right". Govt should keep its hands off most things. People should do nearly everything for themselves, helping each other where needed, failing and trying again (a good way to learn), etc.

Conservatives hold that govt's job is to keep other people from interfering as you try to live your own life, except where you invited them to participate. Either people outside the country (foreign attack or invasion), or people inside the country (criminals, fraud artists, and govt itself). Otherwise govt should keep its hands off and stay out of they way.

Utopian, and not reality.

Utopian is thinking someone that won't get off his ass and earn it should have the same thing as someone that already did.

Utopian is thinking that a person making a choice they say is no one else's business should have the results of that choice funded when the chooser can't do so.

That's what Liberal think and it's far from reality.

You have no clue what liberals think, and with taxes you get civilization.

 

[Conservative65]

Conservatism discards Prescription, shrinks from Principle, disavows Progress; having rejected all respect for antiquity, it offers no redress for the present, and makes no preparation for the future.
- Benjamin Disraeli

I don't have a problem with progress. I have made plenty of it. Progress is as much how you got there as where you are if not more. Someone on food stamps may have the food they need but they didn't get there for something they did but because of someone else doing it for them. That's not progress.

People not starving is progress. It's also a quarter-step if that is a handout.

People earning their way is progress. People being given something when they won't earn it isn't despite the results.

The poor will always be with you. The Bible, not me. I'm for as few as possible, that make their own way, and bread.

I agree that they will always be with us. What I don't agree with is what Liberals say about the role of government and how it fits the teachings of Jesus when it comes to the poor. Liberals tell us that Jesus taught to help the poor through compassion and that mandating taxes to do that is compassion. Seems they don't understand that compassion can't be mandated. Compassion comes from the person doing the giving not a mandate by the one doing the taking. So much for what Liberals think.

I'm for as few poor as possible but disagree when Liberals me that people should be forced to support them.

 

[Conservative65]

Not talking about nature you dumb piece of shit. Nature in the sense you use it and natural in the sense of rights aren't the same thing.

Natural rights are those that come without and aren't contingent upon statutory laws, customs, beliefs of any culture or government, etc.

There is no such thing...

Perhaps you should tell that to Thomas Jefferson. He knows far more about it than you.

He's dead, and was wrong. Your fallacy is noted.

Even dead he's smarter than you.

 

[PaintMyHouse]

Liberals are engaged in one of the most common things they do in order to push their ideology; that is redefine terms to fit their agenda. Selfish doesn't involve someone doing with what is their in a way other than what you think they should do. One cannot be selfish because they don't do it your way. However, Liberals do promote selfishness by telling freeloaders that they deserve someone else's money they didn't earn.

Liberals deal in reality, which means poor people have needs, and being selfish is what most so-called conservatives live for. It comes down to, I got mine, fuck everyone else in everything else. Hardly helpful, and nothing like moral.

It comes down to I EARNED mine so fuck you if you think I owe you something you're unwilling to earn. Nothing immoral or selfish about expecting someone else to get what they get the same way you did. If I expect someone to earn it, it's because I already have.

Self-made man eh? There is no such thing...

 

[Conservative65]

Seems like we are discussing everything EXCEPT what conservatism is (the original topic of the thread).

Back to the subject:
What is conservatism? It's the idea that government should do as little as possible, and should confine its influence to areas where private people and groups cannot do what is needed.

Not just areas where the govt thinks it can do "better" than private people or groups. But areas where private people and groups can't do it at all.

Such as foreign relations, national defense, setting national standards, running courts, dispassionately prosecuting lawbreakers, etc.

In a word, protecting people's rights.

And conservatives know that not everything we want, even necessary things like food and health care, is a "right". Govt should keep its hands off most things. People should do nearly everything for themselves, helping each other where needed, failing and trying again (a good way to learn), etc.

Conservatives hold that govt's job is to keep other people from interfering as you try to live your own life, except where you invited them to participate. Either people outside the country (foreign attack or invasion), or people inside the country (criminals, fraud artists, and govt itself). Otherwise govt should keep its hands off and stay out of they way.

Utopian, and not reality.

Utopian is thinking someone that won't get off his ass and earn it should have the same thing as someone that already did.

Utopian is thinking that a person making a choice they say is no one else's business should have the results of that choice funded when the chooser can't do so.

That's what Liberal think and it's far from reality.

You have no clue what liberals think, and with taxes you get civilization.

I know what Liberals say.

Then everyone in the civilization should be paying the same taxes. They don't. So much for your argument.

 

[PaintMyHouse]

Not talking about nature you dumb piece of shit. Nature in the sense you use it and natural in the sense of rights aren't the same thing.

Natural rights are those that come without and aren't contingent upon statutory laws, customs, beliefs of any culture or government, etc.

There is no such thing...

Perhaps you should tell that to Thomas Jefferson. He knows far more about it than you.

He's dead, and was wrong. Your fallacy is noted.

Even dead he's smarter than you.

Another fallacy...

 

[Conservative65]

Liberals are engaged in one of the most common things they do in order to push their ideology; that is redefine terms to fit their agenda. Selfish doesn't involve someone doing with what is their in a way other than what you think they should do. One cannot be selfish because they don't do it your way. However, Liberals do promote selfishness by telling freeloaders that they deserve someone else's money they didn't earn.

Liberals deal in reality, which means poor people have needs, and being selfish is what most so-called conservatives live for. It comes down to, I got mine, fuck everyone else in everything else. Hardly helpful, and nothing like moral.

It comes down to I EARNED mine so fuck you if you think I owe you something you're unwilling to earn. Nothing immoral or selfish about expecting someone else to get what they get the same way you did. If I expect someone to earn it, it's because I already have.

Self-made man eh? There is no such thing...

That's what your ****** President said. He would be wrong.

 

[Conservative65]

Not talking about nature you dumb piece of shit. Nature in the sense you use it and natural in the sense of rights aren't the same thing.

Natural rights are those that come without and aren't contingent upon statutory laws, customs, beliefs of any culture or government, etc.

There is no such thing...

Perhaps you should tell that to Thomas Jefferson. He knows far more about it than you.

He's dead, and was wrong. Your fallacy is noted.

Even dead he's smarter than you.

Another fallacy...

That you're smarter than Jefferson? Yes that's a fallacy.

 

[PaintMyHouse]

Seems like we are discussing everything EXCEPT what conservatism is (the original topic of the thread).

Back to the subject:
What is conservatism? It's the idea that government should do as little as possible, and should confine its influence to areas where private people and groups cannot do what is needed.

Not just areas where the govt thinks it can do "better" than private people or groups. But areas where private people and groups can't do it at all.

Such as foreign relations, national defense, setting national standards, running courts, dispassionately prosecuting lawbreakers, etc.

In a word, protecting people's rights.

And conservatives know that not everything we want, even necessary things like food and health care, is a "right". Govt should keep its hands off most things. People should do nearly everything for themselves, helping each other where needed, failing and trying again (a good way to learn), etc.

Conservatives hold that govt's job is to keep other people from interfering as you try to live your own life, except where you invited them to participate. Either people outside the country (foreign attack or invasion), or people inside the country (criminals, fraud artists, and govt itself). Otherwise govt should keep its hands off and stay out of they way.

Utopian, and not reality.

Utopian is thinking someone that won't get off his ass and earn it should have the same thing as someone that already did.

Utopian is thinking that a person making a choice they say is no one else's business should have the results of that choice funded when the chooser can't do so.

That's what Liberal think and it's far from reality.

You have no clue what liberals think, and with taxes you get civilization.

I know what Liberals say.

Then everyone in the civilization should be paying the same taxes. They don't. So much for your argument.

You are clueless. I'm a liberal and I never say what you think I will. As for tax rates, see Adam Smith, who wasn't opposed to the rich paying more since they got more and had more.

 

[PaintMyHouse]

There is no such thing...

Perhaps you should tell that to Thomas Jefferson. He knows far more about it than you.

He's dead, and was wrong. Your fallacy is noted.

Even dead he's smarter than you.

Another fallacy...

That you're smarter than Jefferson? Yes that's a fallacy.

He lived in the Dark Ages by comparison.

 

[PaintMyHouse]

Liberals are engaged in one of the most common things they do in order to push their ideology; that is redefine terms to fit their agenda. Selfish doesn't involve someone doing with what is their in a way other than what you think they should do. One cannot be selfish because they don't do it your way. However, Liberals do promote selfishness by telling freeloaders that they deserve someone else's money they didn't earn.

Liberals deal in reality, which means poor people have needs, and being selfish is what most so-called conservatives live for. It comes down to, I got mine, fuck everyone else in everything else. Hardly helpful, and nothing like moral.

It comes down to I EARNED mine so fuck you if you think I owe you something you're unwilling to earn. Nothing immoral or selfish about expecting someone else to get what they get the same way you did. If I expect someone to earn it, it's because I already have.

Self-made man eh? There is no such thing...

That's what your ****** President said. He would be wrong.

There is no such thing, and he's the President, not my President.

 

[Conservative65]

Seems like we are discussing everything EXCEPT what conservatism is (the original topic of the thread).

Back to the subject:
What is conservatism? It's the idea that government should do as little as possible, and should confine its influence to areas where private people and groups cannot do what is needed.

Not just areas where the govt thinks it can do "better" than private people or groups. But areas where private people and groups can't do it at all.

Such as foreign relations, national defense, setting national standards, running courts, dispassionately prosecuting lawbreakers, etc.

In a word, protecting people's rights.

And conservatives know that not everything we want, even necessary things like food and health care, is a "right". Govt should keep its hands off most things. People should do nearly everything for themselves, helping each other where needed, failing and trying again (a good way to learn), etc.

Conservatives hold that govt's job is to keep other people from interfering as you try to live your own life, except where you invited them to participate. Either people outside the country (foreign attack or invasion), or people inside the country (criminals, fraud artists, and govt itself). Otherwise govt should keep its hands off and stay out of they way.

Utopian, and not reality.

Utopian is thinking someone that won't get off his ass and earn it should have the same thing as someone that already did.

Utopian is thinking that a person making a choice they say is no one else's business should have the results of that choice funded when the chooser can't do so.

That's what Liberal think and it's far from reality.

You have no clue what liberals think, and with taxes you get civilization.

I know what Liberals say.

Then everyone in the civilization should be paying the same taxes. They don't. So much for your argument.

You are clueless. I'm a liberal and I never say what you think I will. As for tax rates, see Adam Smith, who wasn't opposed to the rich paying more since they got more and had more.

Oh, you thought by same I meant amount? That's a stupid Liberal for you. Same can mean more than amount but I wouldn't expect you to know that.

You say exactly what I expect you'll say.

 

[Conservative65]

Liberals are engaged in one of the most common things they do in order to push their ideology; that is redefine terms to fit their agenda. Selfish doesn't involve someone doing with what is their in a way other than what you think they should do. One cannot be selfish because they don't do it your way. However, Liberals do promote selfishness by telling freeloaders that they deserve someone else's money they didn't earn.

Liberals deal in reality, which means poor people have needs, and being selfish is what most so-called conservatives live for. It comes down to, I got mine, fuck everyone else in everything else. Hardly helpful, and nothing like moral.

It comes down to I EARNED mine so fuck you if you think I owe you something you're unwilling to earn. Nothing immoral or selfish about expecting someone else to get what they get the same way you did. If I expect someone to earn it, it's because I already have.

Self-made man eh? There is no such thing...

That's what your ****** President said. He would be wrong.

There is no such thing, and he's the President, not my President.

Sorry, he's wrong.

I know you want to believe him because as hard as you may try, you won't ever amount to anything. He said that to make people like you feel good.

 

[Conservative65]

Perhaps you should tell that to Thomas Jefferson. He knows far more about it than you.

He's dead, and was wrong. Your fallacy is noted.

Even dead he's smarter than you.

Another fallacy...

That you're smarter than Jefferson? Yes that's a fallacy.

He lived in the Dark Ages by comparison.

The Dark Ages ended a few hundred years before he was born.

 

[PaintMyHouse]

Utopian, and not reality.

Utopian is thinking someone that won't get off his ass and earn it should have the same thing as someone that already did.

Utopian is thinking that a person making a choice they say is no one else's business should have the results of that choice funded when the chooser can't do so.

That's what Liberal think and it's far from reality.

You have no clue what liberals think, and with taxes you get civilization.

I know what Liberals say.

Then everyone in the civilization should be paying the same taxes. They don't. So much for your argument.

You are clueless. I'm a liberal and I never say what you think I will. As for tax rates, see Adam Smith, who wasn't opposed to the rich paying more since they got more and had more.

Oh, you thought by same I meant amount? That's a stupid Liberal for you. Same can mean more than amount but I wouldn't expect you to know that.

You say exactly what I expect you'll say.

Nope, that why I said "rate". Learn what that means, and why Smith wasn't concerned about different rates.

 

[Conservative65]

Utopian is thinking someone that won't get off his ass and earn it should have the same thing as someone that already did.

Utopian is thinking that a person making a choice they say is no one else's business should have the results of that choice funded when the chooser can't do so.

That's what Liberal think and it's far from reality.

You have no clue what liberals think, and with taxes you get civilization.

I know what Liberals say.

Then everyone in the civilization should be paying the same taxes. They don't. So much for your argument.

You are clueless. I'm a liberal and I never say what you think I will. As for tax rates, see Adam Smith, who wasn't opposed to the rich paying more since they got more and had more.

Oh, you thought by same I meant amount? That's a stupid Liberal for you. Same can mean more than amount but I wouldn't expect you to know that.

You say exactly what I expect you'll say.

Nope, that why I said "rate". Learn what that means, and why Smith wasn't concerned about different rates.

Oh, you thought by same I meant rate? Once again, a stupid Liberal. Keep trying. You may get it.

 

[PaintMyHouse]

He's dead, and was wrong. Your fallacy is noted.

Even dead he's smarter than you.

Another fallacy...

That you're smarter than Jefferson? Yes that's a fallacy.

He lived in the Dark Ages by comparison.

The Dark Ages ended a few hundred years before he was born.

Were he alive today, he'd know I was right. They knew jack-shit by comparison, but they did know don't live in the past, or for it...