I would like to hear how teacher led prayer in public schools is constitutional

[Bill O'Olberman]

If an atheist/agnostic school principal expressed views that christianity/judaism/islam are nonsensical belief sets based on dogma, stupidity, ignorance, and an archaic desire to explain that which we currently cannot explain over the morning announcements they would most certainly catch the outrage of the religious parents.

As a government actor school teachers and administrators should maintain a nuetral role in regards to religion while at school. I dont care if Coach Bob from your schools routinely leads a prayer in your church but he should not do it while at school as an employee/actor of the government.

 

[Samson]

If an atheist/agnostic school principal expressed views that christianity/judaism/islam are nonsensical belief sets based on dogma, stupidity, ignorance, and an archaic desire to explain that which we currently cannot explain over the morning announcements they would most certainly catch the outrage of the religious parents.

As a government actor school teachers and administrators should maintain a nuetral role in regards to religion while at school. I dont care if Coach Bob from your schools routinely leads a prayer in your church but he should not do it while at school as an employee/actor of the government.

Yes, that is the decision of the Supreme Court.

The question is Why? Why should Coach Bob's Freedom to Practice Religion take a back seat to the Seperation of Church and State?

Is Coach Bob, by practicing his religion, coercing students to practice his religion?

 

[blu]

please explain this to me because it baffles my mind

I would like to know how adding time to the school day so that extra breaks can be given so Muslim children can pray is not a violation of Church and State when the argument has always been that even adding a MINUTE of silence was Unconstitutional?

WELL? I am waiting.

you need to post a link to a story or something. otherwise its hard to know what you are talking about

 

[blu]

For christssakes people....I'm so fucking glad I answer the question in the OP so that poking of a freakin' board moron can take precedence to the interesting debateable point:

Were the states coercing students into praying or Bible reading?

are you talking about in a particular case? if so, which?

in general though even praying in front of someone could be offensive. what if you had a satanist in the classroom as you prayed to jesus etc?

 

[LuckyDan]

If an atheist/agnostic school principal expressed views that christianity/judaism/islam are nonsensical belief sets based on dogma, stupidity, ignorance, and an archaic desire to explain that which we currently cannot explain over the morning announcements they would most certainly catch the outrage of the religious parents.

As a government actor school teachers and administrators should maintain a nuetral role in regards to religion while at school. I dont care if Coach Bob from your schools routinely leads a prayer in your church but he should not do it while at school as an employee/actor of the government.

Hell yes, he'd be called on it, and why shouldn't he? Bad analogy.

In moments of prayer, you can close your eyes and pray, or close your eyes and imagine what color panties Jenny's wearing. Who's gonna know?

An anti-religious diatribe, with no chance of rebuttal - and from an authority figure no less - makes simple captives of students who are forced to tolerate the opinion of a zealous bigot.

Try another one.

 

[Samson]

For christssakes people....I'm so fucking glad I answer the question in the OP so that poking of a freakin' board moron can take precedence to the interesting debateable point:

Were the states coercing students into praying or Bible reading?

are you talking about in a particular case? if so, which?

in general though even praying in front of someone could be offensive. what if you had a satanist in the classroom as you prayed to jesus etc?

Yes, I am talking about a specific case, but you're gonna hafta read your own fuckin' thread to find out which.

 

[Bill O'Olberman]

If an atheist/agnostic school principal expressed views that christianity/judaism/islam are nonsensical belief sets based on dogma, stupidity, ignorance, and an archaic desire to explain that which we currently cannot explain over the morning announcements they would most certainly catch the outrage of the religious parents.

As a government actor school teachers and administrators should maintain a nuetral role in regards to religion while at school. I dont care if Coach Bob from your schools routinely leads a prayer in your church but he should not do it while at school as an employee/actor of the government.

Yes, that is the decision of the Supreme Court.

The question is Why? Why should Coach Bob's Freedom to Practice Religion take a back seat to the Seperation of Church and State?

Is Coach Bob, by practicing his religion, coercing students to practice his religion?

I dont think restricting Coach Bob from leading a public prayer before all his classes in anyway prohibits Coach Bob from practcing his religion. Also, it does place students of other faiths or different beliefs in an uncomfortable situation which they should not have to confront while at school. As a person who is placed in a position of authority over other individuals (the students) I do believe that there is some level of coercion involved in this situation.

 

[blu]

For christssakes people....I'm so fucking glad I answer the question in the OP so that poking of a freakin' board moron can take precedence to the interesting debateable point:

Were the states coercing students into praying or Bible reading?

Murray v. Curlett legal definition of Murray v. Curlett. Murray v. Curlett synonyms by the Free Online Law Dictionary.

this link right?

The Schempp ruling involved two cases: its namesake and Murray v. Curlett, 228 Md. 239, 179 A. 2d 698 (Md. 1962). The Schempp case concerned a 1949 Pennsylvania law that forced public schools to start each day with a reading of ten Bible verses (24 Pa. Stat. § 15-1516). The law did not specify which version of the Bible should be used—for instance, it could be the Catholic Douay text or the Jewish version of the Old Testament. But local school officials only bought the Protestant King James Version. Teachers ordered students to rise and recite the verses reverently and in unison, or, as in the Abington School District, students in a broadcasting class read the verses over a public-address system. Teachers could be fired for refusing to participate, and pupils occasionally were segregated from others if they did not join in the daily reading.

in this case they were certainly forced into bible reading/reciting/etc and were forcefully segregated for not following along

did I read the wrong case?

 

[RetiredGySgt]

I would like to know how adding time to the school day so that extra breaks can be given so Muslim children can pray is not a violation of Church and State when the argument has always been that even adding a MINUTE of silence was Unconstitutional?

WELL? I am waiting.

Who says, "adding a MINUTE of silence was Unconstitutional?"

When School districts tried to do it in the past after having the pledge removed or a prayer, the ACLU and Atheists sued claiming the minute of silence was designed to allow prayer and so was not allowed. Yet we have school districts now ADDING time to school so that Muslims can pray IN SCHOOL. The article indicated that one California school district added breaks during the day and made Lunch longer so that Muslims could pray for an hour during lunch.

 

[Bill O'Olberman]

If an atheist/agnostic school principal expressed views that christianity/judaism/islam are nonsensical belief sets based on dogma, stupidity, ignorance, and an archaic desire to explain that which we currently cannot explain over the morning announcements they would most certainly catch the outrage of the religious parents.

As a government actor school teachers and administrators should maintain a nuetral role in regards to religion while at school. I dont care if Coach Bob from your schools routinely leads a prayer in your church but he should not do it while at school as an employee/actor of the government.

Hell yes, he'd be called on it, and why shouldn't he? Bad analogy.

In moments of prayer, you can close your eyes and pray, or close your eyes and imagine what color panties Jenny's wearing. Who's gonna know?

An anti-religious diatribe, with no chance of rebuttal - and from an authority figure no less - makes simple captives of students who are forced to tolerate the opinion of a zealous bigot.

Try another one.

If the teacher started his prayer "Jesus Christ our Lord, Savior, and only path to salvation... etc etc etc blah blah blah" A religious diatribe, with no chance of rebuttal - and from an authority figure no less - makes simple captives of students who are forced to tolerate the opinion of a zealous bigot.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

If an atheist/agnostic school principal expressed views that christianity/judaism/islam are nonsensical belief sets based on dogma, stupidity, ignorance, and an archaic desire to explain that which we currently cannot explain over the morning announcements they would most certainly catch the outrage of the religious parents.

As a government actor school teachers and administrators should maintain a nuetral role in regards to religion while at school. I dont care if Coach Bob from your schools routinely leads a prayer in your church but he should not do it while at school as an employee/actor of the government.

How about adding an hour to the school day to accommodate extra 15 minute breaks for Muslim children to pray, and an increase in the Lunch period?

 

[Bill O'Olberman]

If an atheist/agnostic school principal expressed views that christianity/judaism/islam are nonsensical belief sets based on dogma, stupidity, ignorance, and an archaic desire to explain that which we currently cannot explain over the morning announcements they would most certainly catch the outrage of the religious parents.

As a government actor school teachers and administrators should maintain a nuetral role in regards to religion while at school. I dont care if Coach Bob from your schools routinely leads a prayer in your church but he should not do it while at school as an employee/actor of the government.

How about adding an hour to the school day to accommodate extra 15 minute breaks for Muslim children to pray, and an increase in the Lunch period?

I dont think schools should change their schedules. However, I do think that schools should allow the Muslims students the oppurtunity to practice their beliefs and make up any missed work. Just like I believe they should allow Jewish and Christian students to make up all the work they miss on religious holidays they do not attend school, leave school early or religious activities that legitimately interrupt their school work.

 

[LuckyDan]

If an atheist/agnostic school principal expressed views that christianity/judaism/islam are nonsensical belief sets based on dogma, stupidity, ignorance, and an archaic desire to explain that which we currently cannot explain over the morning announcements they would most certainly catch the outrage of the religious parents.

As a government actor school teachers and administrators should maintain a nuetral role in regards to religion while at school. I dont care if Coach Bob from your schools routinely leads a prayer in your church but he should not do it while at school as an employee/actor of the government.

Hell yes, he'd be called on it, and why shouldn't he? Bad analogy.

In moments of prayer, you can close your eyes and pray, or close your eyes and imagine what color panties Jenny's wearing. Who's gonna know?

An anti-religious diatribe, with no chance of rebuttal - and from an authority figure no less - makes simple captives of students who are forced to tolerate the opinion of a zealous bigot.

Try another one.

If the teacher started his prayer "Jesus Christ our Lord, Savior, and only path to salvation... etc etc etc blah blah blah" A religious diatribe, with no chance of rebuttal - and from an authority figure no less - makes simple captives of students who are forced to tolerate the opinion of a zealous bigot.

Oh wow. I hadn't thought of that. You're right.

NO ONE HAS EVER FUCKING ARGUED THAT BEFORE!

Here's an equally original thought. Don't say "Jesus" in the prayer.

Looks like we worked it out. Glad that's settled.

 

[Bill O'Olberman]

Hell yes, he'd be called on it, and why shouldn't he? Bad analogy.

In moments of prayer, you can close your eyes and pray, or close your eyes and imagine what color panties Jenny's wearing. Who's gonna know?

An anti-religious diatribe, with no chance of rebuttal - and from an authority figure no less - makes simple captives of students who are forced to tolerate the opinion of a zealous bigot.

Try another one.

If the teacher started his prayer "Jesus Christ our Lord, Savior, and only path to salvation... etc etc etc blah blah blah" A religious diatribe, with no chance of rebuttal - and from an authority figure no less - makes simple captives of students who are forced to tolerate the opinion of a zealous bigot.

Oh wow. I hadn't thought of that. You're right.

NO ONE HAS EVER FUCKING ARGUED THAT BEFORE!

Here's an equally original thought. Don't say "Jesus" in the prayer.

Looks like we worked it out. Glad that's settled.

Youre inane. Why should a teacher at school even lead a prayer? Are they some kind of spiritual authority? No they generally teacher a certain subject and generally teach it poorly. They shouldnt use their position as a teacher as a forum to lead in prayers. Teachers shouldnt touch prayer. They should remain personally nuetral, unbiased, and expressed no belief or disbelief if the subject of God arises in their class.

 

[fyrenza]

Well,

if I'M allowed MY pursuit of happiness and wholeness,

I think I can do what I'd like,

to the extent that it Harms No One, and make me Happy.

If folks get butthurt over it?

Too fucking bad.

What did I win???

 

[blu]

Well,

if I'M allowed MY pursuit of happiness and wholeness,

I think I can do what I'd like,

to the extent that it Harms No One, and make me Happy.

If folks get butthurt over it?

Too fucking bad.

What did I win???

dumbest post of the thread award?

 

[ConHog]

we have student and teacher led prayer at our school. Blu you are welcome to join us.

 

[blu]

we have student and teacher led prayer at our school. Blu you are welcome to join us.

isn't it a christian school?

 

[ConHog]

we have student and teacher led prayer at our school. Blu you are welcome to join us.

isn't it a christian school?

nope, public school. Of course we don't start every class with a prayer or anything like that, but there are certain times that prayer happens, and there is a group that eats lunch together every day and the teachers who are in the group do take their turn leading the prayers.


oh and the answer to your question is that congress shall pass NO law prohibiting the free practice of religion, that includes for state employees.

 

[bigrebnc1775]

For christssakes people....I'm so fucking glad I answer the question in the OP so that poking of a freakin' board moron can take precedence to the interesting debateable point:

Were the states coercing students into praying or Bible reading?

I think the point has been made public schools are not forcing children to pray. Now can we get back to the poking please?

No the Supreme Court ruled that the state IS coercing children to pray.

Isn't there a Flamezone where you guys could drag rdean and give him a "Swirly" and a "Purple Nurple" before leaving him with a "Snuggy?"

You do notice he's gone and hasn't returned? Would you long to be placed on the 24 hour on call pest removeal service?