I think we all agree

[JakeStarkey]

Innocent until proven guilty is applicable to the criminal justice system. It has no application in foreign policy.
Iraq was a state supporter of terrorism, a violator of sanctions and treaties, and a threat to stability in the middle east. It was exactly the right move to go in.
Somalia was a half assed joke of a mission. Kosova was a shitty mission. The US engages in lots of little wars, and always has.

You defend lying to Congress and deceiving the American people. You defend the deaths and dismemberment of thousands of US troops based upon a callous deception of the citizens of this nation. That says volumes about you!

You deflect when challenged and have no idea what you're talking about. That says volumes about you!

dear, your lack of integrity and your anti-American reactionary values are exposed once again, this time by Derideo_Te.

 

[tinydancer]

I know I'm flipping that some how some way we are getting involved in the world police stuff in the Ukraine. I'm spitting bullets over this.

Honestly If there is a true genocide going down I have no problem with any of us jumping in and laying down a smackdown quick hard and dirty.

But why are we getting involved over bitchy moments? I'm not getting this.

We have no business in Ukraine or Crimea. If those people vote to rejoin Russia, its none of our fricken business. If Russia takes them by force, let the chips fall where they may. We are not the world's police force. Unless there is a theat or attack on US interests, then we need to stay the fuck out of it.

So you ARE ok with the US reacting to a threat as opposed to waiting for an actual attack.
Just a few posts ago you asked IM if he was aware of the diff between the two as if a threat must not be defended. I realize it's a slippery slope fraught with risks but we need to keep our options open and have the courage to act.

But as the case in the Ukraine I'm furious with our governments. This is a complete overthrow of a duly elected government before our very eyes and we are told we should support this lie.

And I'm told I'm crazy that this is just a rebellion and yet I witnessed an overthrow of a government with our backing.

 

[Brain357]

The US should not try to police the world and should not engage in nation building. We should not enter foreign conflicts unless the USA or its people have been physically attacked.

Comments-------------------

Well I agree with you. I think most of what we have done has just made things worse...

 

[Dot Com]

I wish Democrats who agree with you would realize that what you said is the best reason to find an alternative to Hillary Clinton in 2016.

yep, she's a corporate democrat & prolly wouldn't hesitate to start wars for profit like Bush II did.


4,000+ casualties, 10's of 1000's of permanently maimed & wounded, & $4TRILLION of BORROWED taxdollars later you still stand behind that "war-for-profit"? There is no hope for you and your partisan blinders. They must be stapled permanently to your temples.

War for profit?

Do it and I will take you on. Meet me in a clean room. You lay down the line and I will take you on.

I'm referring to the defense contractors such as the company formerly known as BlackWater, Halliburton, Boeing, KBR, Dyncorp, etc... etc...

They laughed all the way to the bank & left the U.S. taxpayers holding the bag (because Cheney/Bush II "borrowed" the money )

 

[IlarMeilyr]

You defend lying to Congress and deceiving the American people. You defend the deaths and dismemberment of thousands of US troops based upon a callous deception of the citizens of this nation. That says volumes about you!

You deflect when challenged and have no idea what you're talking about. That says volumes about you!

dear, your lack of integrity and your anti-American reactionary values are exposed once again, this time by Derideo_Te.

The massive irony of FAKEY, of all people, attempting to lecture anybody about a lack of integrity is just too rich.

Fakey, you imbecile, nobody buys anything YOU say. The one constant about you is that you remain forever dishonest.

 

[The Rabbi]

yep, she's a corporate democrat & prolly wouldn't hesitate to start wars for profit like Bush II did.


4,000+ casualties, 10's of 1000's of permanently maimed & wounded, & $4TRILLION of BORROWED taxdollars later you still stand behind that "war-for-profit"? There is no hope for you and your partisan blinders. They must be stapled permanently to your temples.

War for profit?

Do it and I will take you on. Meet me in a clean room. You lay down the line and I will take you on.

I'm referring to the defense contractors such as the company formerly known as BlackWater, Halliburton, Boeing, KBR, Dyncorp, etc... etc...

They laughed all the way to the bank & left the U.S. taxpayers holding the bag (because Cheney/Bush II "borrowed" the money )

And in Somalia, Kosovo, etc they just donated their services, right?

 

[Nyvin]

Obama inherited two quagmires from Bush and there were no good options. The advice of the military for a surge in Afghanistan was a mistake but Obama was smart enough to set benchmarks and stick to them. They weren't achieved so he did what he should have done originally and started the drawdown and withdrawal process. Obama was also smart enough not to get sucked into Iran, Libya and Syria. Overall Obama has a better track record than Bush when it comes to wars.

I just had this conversation this morn. It is true Obama was dealt a tough hand but Bush was dealt 9/11 just 100 days into his first term. Try having that dumped on you. At least Obama knew what he was getting.

It is bullshit that obama inherited two quagmires. More examples of Leftists making shit up.
Iraq had been conquered, they had staged two elections, all that needed to be done was a status of forces agreement. And Obama fucked that up.
Afghanistan was tougher. But that was the war Obama called the good war. It was not the generals who pushed for a surge but Obama. He then ignored most of their advice and set on a plan that was all but guaranteed to fail. And fail it did. Obama blew blood and treasure in Afghanistan with absolutely nothing to show for it. The Taliban will be back in power within 24 months of our leaving. The sub 10k troops left will do nothing to prevent that.

The rest of Obama's foreign policy is a total train wreck. There is no country in the world where we have better relations than when Obama took office.

There was, and still is, no situation that would've left Iraq in some mythical "peaceful state" just due to the huge divide in the country's religious factions. It's good we got out when we did.

 

[Indofred]

Go burn a flag and spit on a soldier.
You'll feel better

The OP's suggestion would save your soldiers' lives.
How many soldiers have you lost in pointless wars since 1945?

 

[The Rabbi]

I just had this conversation this morn. It is true Obama was dealt a tough hand but Bush was dealt 9/11 just 100 days into his first term. Try having that dumped on you. At least Obama knew what he was getting.

It is bullshit that obama inherited two quagmires. More examples of Leftists making shit up.
Iraq had been conquered, they had staged two elections, all that needed to be done was a status of forces agreement. And Obama fucked that up.
Afghanistan was tougher. But that was the war Obama called the good war. It was not the generals who pushed for a surge but Obama. He then ignored most of their advice and set on a plan that was all but guaranteed to fail. And fail it did. Obama blew blood and treasure in Afghanistan with absolutely nothing to show for it. The Taliban will be back in power within 24 months of our leaving. The sub 10k troops left will do nothing to prevent that.

The rest of Obama's foreign policy is a total train wreck. There is no country in the world where we have better relations than when Obama took office.

There was, and still is, no situation that would've left Iraq in some mythical "peaceful state" just due to the huge divide in the country's religious factions. It's good we got out when we did.

And you know this how?
You are wrong, of course. Stationing troops there would have kept the peace and deterred aggression from Iran. But Obama was playing to the polls, as usual and cut and run, regardless of long term consequences. Because he cannot think beyond the spin cycle.

 

[tinydancer]

What are we to do. Just a quick aside. If the boy is a deserter let someone else judge him. But who did we trade?

My good Lord we traded a mass murderer. My Shiite friends are already going crazy and I do not blame them. What have we done? My Sunni friends are freaking. They know nothing good can come of this.

Do any of you understand who you just gave up? He killed thousands upon thousands. Aye carumba I am so tired.

 

[SAYIT]

The US should not try to police the world and should not engage in nation building. We should not enter foreign conflicts unless the USA or its people have been physically attacked.

Comments-------------------

Common sense. You'll find many who agree. Those who disagree..........should draw your attention.

And yet in a later post RF modified that to include threats or attacks on US interests. That is a far cry from the isolationist POV of his OP.

"Unless there is a theat or attack on US interests, then we need to stay the fuck out of it." - Redfish

 

[Erand7899]

.

I've sat in enough airports watching enough legless soldiers being pushed in enough wheelchairs by their young sons. We've spent enough trillions of dollars on enough erroneous "intelligence" reports. We've wasted enough lives and limbs and minds and dollars building countries that will fall back to the enemy the moment we leave. We've inspired enough young men to join terrorist organizations out of hatred for our interference.

Madness.

.

Not madness, miscalculation and unreasonable expectations, with a large dash of incompetence in top political circles.

Whether we want to be at war, or not, Islamic extremists are at war with us, and we better not forget that fact. They expect to win this war because they are convinced that Americans and Europeons do not have the stomach for prolonged war and/or the casualties that result from that war.

Nor, can a free society protect itself from the type or warfare that our enemies prefer. If we allow them the initiative, they can select soft targets at will, and bring our country to its knees through fear. Consequently, we have no alternative except to take the war to them, and force them to defend their own territory and their own society.

Playing nice and expecting them to go away is madness.

 

[tinydancer]

yep, she's a corporate democrat & prolly wouldn't hesitate to start wars for profit like Bush II did.


4,000+ casualties, 10's of 1000's of permanently maimed & wounded, & $4TRILLION of BORROWED taxdollars later you still stand behind that "war-for-profit"? There is no hope for you and your partisan blinders. They must be stapled permanently to your temples.

War for profit?

Do it and I will take you on. Meet me in a clean room. You lay down the line and I will take you on.

I'm referring to the defense contractors such as the company formerly known as BlackWater, Halliburton, Boeing, KBR, Dyncorp, etc... etc...

They laughed all the way to the bank & left the U.S. taxpayers holding the bag (because Cheney/Bush II "borrowed" the money )

Barforama time both sides of the aisle. Brown and Roots. Johnson. Lady Bird and Haliburton. Oh I can go on and on and on. You won't find many R's you will find some great D's. Nonetheless, R's have made their money off of blood too. I am excusing neither.

I don't excuse anyone. Not D or R's when it comes to the blood of our babies.

 

[IlarMeilyr]

I had not realized until this morning (one of the talking head news programs of Sunday morning) that Sgt. Bowe Bergdahl had allegedly gone AWOL. He supposedly planned on walking the length and breath of Afghanistan without a gun or supplies.

It is NOT fair to prejudge the man. So, perhaps he had simply gone a little crazy? OR, possibly, there was something more sinister in his last pre-capture behavior?

Either way, as much as we like the idea of getting a POW freed, the quetion HAS to be: at what cost?

Considering the FIVE scumbags we "exchanged" to GET the Sgt., I believe it is perfectly appropriate to QUESTION the judgment of the President and his Administration in this matter.

These are questions that HAVE to be explored.

I harbor the sad hunch that President Obumbler has fucked up again.

 

[tinydancer]

.

I've sat in enough airports watching enough legless soldiers being pushed in enough wheelchairs by their young sons. We've spent enough trillions of dollars on enough erroneous "intelligence" reports. We've wasted enough lives and limbs and minds and dollars building countries that will fall back to the enemy the moment we leave. We've inspired enough young men to join terrorist organizations out of hatred for our interference.

Madness.

.

Not madness, miscalculation and unreasonable expectations, with a large dash of incompetence in top political circles.

Whether we want to be at war, or not, Islamic extremists are at war with us, and we better not forget that fact. They expect to win this war because they are convinced that Americans and Europeons do not have the stomach for prolonged war and/or the casualties that result from that war.

Nor, can a free society protect itself from the type or warfare that our enemies prefer. If we allow them the initiative, they can select soft targets at will, and bring our country to its knees through fear. Consequently, we have no alternative except to take the war to them, and force them to defend their own territory and their own society.

Playing nice and expecting them to go away is madness.

Then what do we do?

 

[Nyvin]

It is bullshit that obama inherited two quagmires. More examples of Leftists making shit up.
Iraq had been conquered, they had staged two elections, all that needed to be done was a status of forces agreement. And Obama fucked that up.
Afghanistan was tougher. But that was the war Obama called the good war. It was not the generals who pushed for a surge but Obama. He then ignored most of their advice and set on a plan that was all but guaranteed to fail. And fail it did. Obama blew blood and treasure in Afghanistan with absolutely nothing to show for it. The Taliban will be back in power within 24 months of our leaving. The sub 10k troops left will do nothing to prevent that.

The rest of Obama's foreign policy is a total train wreck. There is no country in the world where we have better relations than when Obama took office.

There was, and still is, no situation that would've left Iraq in some mythical "peaceful state" just due to the huge divide in the country's religious factions. It's good we got out when we did.

And you know this how?
You are wrong, of course. Stationing troops there would have kept the peace and deterred aggression from Iran. But Obama was playing to the polls, as usual and cut and run, regardless of long term consequences. Because he cannot think beyond the spin cycle.

He did not cut and run, the Iraqi government requested that we leave because they weren't willing to give the troops stationed there diplomatic immunity from court prosecutions.

Stationing troops there for almost 9 years did not keep the peace for even 1 week of the year! I know this because it's the grim reality even today, and it was throughout the entire occupation of the country.

Aggression from Iran?? Heck nowadays Iran is Iraq's closest ally, has been since around 2006.

 

[SAYIT]

Obama inherited two quagmires from Bush and there were no good options. The advice of the military for a surge in Afghanistan was a mistake but Obama was smart enough to set benchmarks and stick to them. They weren't achieved so he did what he should have done originally and started the drawdown and withdrawal process. Obama was also smart enough not to get sucked into Iran, Libya and Syria. Overall Obama has a better track record than Bush when it comes to wars.

I just had this conversation this morn. It is true Obama was dealt a tough hand but Bush was dealt 9/11 just 100 days into his first term. Try having that dumped on you. At least Obama knew what he was getting.

It is bullshit that obama inherited two quagmires. More examples of Leftists making shit up.
Iraq had been conquered, they had staged two elections, all that needed to be done was a status of forces agreement. And Obama fucked that up.
Afghanistan was tougher. But that was the war Obama called the good war. It was not the generals who pushed for a surge but Obama. He then ignored most of their advice and set on a plan that was all but guaranteed to fail. And fail it did. Obama blew blood and treasure in Afghanistan with absolutely nothing to show for it. The Taliban will be back in power within 24 months of our leaving. The sub 10k troops left will do nothing to prevent that.

The rest of Obama's foreign policy is a total train wreck. There is no country in the world where we have better relations than when Obama took office.

I get all that but you forgot to mention the shit in the sandwich Obama inherited ... an economy on life support.

 

[tinydancer]

I had not realized until this morning (one of the talking head news programs of Sunday morning) that Sgt. Bowe Bergdahl had allegedly gone AWOL. He supposedly planned on walking the length and breath of Afghanistan without a gun or supplies.

It is NOT fair to prejudge the man. So, perhaps he had simply gone a little crazy? OR, possibly, there was something more sinister in his last pre-capture behavior?

Either way, as much as we like the idea of getting a POW freed, the quetion HAS to be: at what cost?

Considering the FIVE scumbags we "exchanged" to GET the Sgt., I believe it is perfectly appropriate to QUESTION the judgment of the President and his Administration in this matter.

These are questions that HAVE to be explored.

I harbor the sad hunch that President Obumbler has fucked up again.

Have you seen who he has released? OMG I bazooka barfed from the freaking get go. This is why I have truly lost it on this so called transfer.

It's unreal. My husband and I both screamed when we saw who got transferred. This is insanity at it's mother trucking finest.

I want to cry. I want to scream. You will too when you see who Obama gave them. It is the whole upper crew of the Taliban. The big Kahunas. The entire upper structure.

Trust me. You are going to flip out.

 

[Nyvin]

I had not realized until this morning (one of the talking head news programs of Sunday morning) that Sgt. Bowe Bergdahl had allegedly gone AWOL. He supposedly planned on walking the length and breath of Afghanistan without a gun or supplies.

It is NOT fair to prejudge the man. So, perhaps he had simply gone a little crazy? OR, possibly, there was something more sinister in his last pre-capture behavior?

Either way, as much as we like the idea of getting a POW freed, the quetion HAS to be: at what cost?

Considering the FIVE scumbags we "exchanged" to GET the Sgt., I believe it is perfectly appropriate to QUESTION the judgment of the President and his Administration in this matter.

These are questions that HAVE to be explored.

I harbor the sad hunch that President Obumbler has fucked up again.

Have you seen who he has released? OMG I bazooka barfed from the freaking get go. This is why I have truly lost it on this so called transfer.

It's unreal. My husband and I both screamed when we saw who got transferred. This is insanity at it's mother trucking finest.

I want to cry. I want to scream. You will too when you see who Obama gave them. It is the whole upper crew of the Taliban. The big Kahunas. The entire upper structure.

Trust me. You are going to flip out.

They weren't "released" they were transferred to the government of Qatar.

 

[SAYIT]

I just had this conversation this morn. It is true Obama was dealt a tough hand but Bush was dealt 9/11 just 100 days into his first term. Try having that dumped on you. At least Obama knew what he was getting.

???

September 11th is easily 250 days into the year, lol

btw, Bush benefited from 9/11 tremendously, he had the highest presidential approval ratings almost immediately after it, and it was 9/11 that largely allowed him to invade Iraq like he wanted to.

I assure you he would have traded those ratings to have the towers and the victims back. His presidency was defined by 9/11, our response, and by the fact that no further attacks were perpetrated here on his watch.