I Think the Government SHOULD Be Run Like a Household!

[IndependntLogic]

I find the oversimplified analogy that our government should be run like a household, interesting. But I've thought about it and there is some merit to it. But there are some rather obvious differences. I never declared war on anyone. That's never profitable. The reverse, actually. It's a drain. I never gave subsidies to my local gas station or farms or whatever. There's another drain. I certainly never gave money to Pakistan or Iraq! Another drain.
However, I do have a strong set of values. I will not call my daughter a socialist if she wants me to pay for her college. Of all the things I would make a priority, that's certainly one. And no, I would prefer she NOT work her way through college as I'd like to see her perform well and graduate cum laude like dad or even better - magna or summa. My daughter has an excellent work ethic, is always on National Honor Role, is an Honor Athlete and starter on the tennis team at a school that was just ranked among America's best high schools by Newsweek, volunteers her time and is just plain great. One of the things I have taught her is that having long term goals and working toward them pays off. Earning a few bucks now, is nothing compared to the benefit of a degree from Stanford or UCLA. Anyone find a flaw in these values?
When my brother got cancer and the caps hit (yes he had insurance but this was before ObamaCare - which I think sucks but it does have a couple good points), we didn't turn our back on him. Would you? We had to sell one of the cars and the house (which turned out to be a blessing in disguise as the market collapsed almost immediately afterward. Thanks God!) but it's not like we would refuse to help with health care of someone in our household. What kind of values does your household have if you would?

So if the government should operate like a household, the question is, what kind of household do we want? The kind that would hand out money to Exxon while we let our kids go without an education? The kind that would make sure our own family members died, if taking care of them cost us money or impinged on the profitability of an insurance company?
You want to compare government spending to be like a household budget, fine - The question is what kind of values does your household have?

 

[Annie]

I find the oversimplified analogy that our government should be run like a household, interesting. But I've thought about it and there is some merit to it. But there are some rather obvious differences. I never declared war on anyone. That's never profitable. The reverse, actually. It's a drain. I never gave subsidies to my local gas station or farms or whatever. There's another drain. I certainly never gave money to Pakistan or Iraq! Another drain.
However, I do have a strong set of values. I will not call my daughter a socialist if she wants me to pay for her college. Of all the things I would make a priority, that's certainly one. And no, I would prefer she NOT work her way through college as I'd like to see her perform well and graduate cum laude like dad or even better - magna or summa. My daughter has an excellent work ethic, is always on National Honor Role, is an Honor Athlete and starter on the tennis team at a school that was just ranked among America's best high schools by Newsweek, volunteers her time and is just plain great. One of the things I have taught her is that having long term goals and working toward them pays off. Earning a few bucks now, is nothing compared to the benefit of a degree from Stanford or UCLA. Anyone find a flaw in these values?
When my brother got cancer and the caps hit (yes he had insurance but this was before ObamaCare - which I think sucks but it does have a couple good points), we didn't turn our back on him. Would you? We had to sell one of the cars and the house (which turned out to be a blessing in disguise as the market collapsed almost immediately afterward. Thanks God!) but it's not like we would refuse to help with health care of someone in our household. What kind of values does your household have if you would?

So if the government should operate like a household, the question is, what kind of household do we want? The kind that would hand out money to Exxon while we let our kids go without an education? The kind that would make sure our own family members died, if taking care of them cost us money or impinged on the profitability of an insurance company?
You want to compare government spending to be like a household budget, fine - The question is what kind of values does your household have?

I like your analogy, but it fails in several ways.

One, the family is too small to compare in the way you are. Now if you use family and alliances? Better.

Missing in your discussion is that your family wouldn't have paid enough equity, even before the downturn, if your family was budgeting, meaning not, back when. It's been well over 3 years now without a plan. Reid says at this point it would be 'stupid' to try, meaning we're too far down the rabbit hole.

It sounds like you're a great parent and your kids are fortunate that way. There are many equally capable, but less fortunate kids that can't get to college unless they do work, even if they don't succeed like you did or your kids might. But they will succeed, because they are willing to work.

Perhaps you think they should go to college free? Then so should your daughter, who's performance and extra-curricular activities and service likely outshine theirs, no? Just college, how long do you think the unsustainable will be sustained?

Now get into food, housing, clothing. How long?

It didn't work in USSR, Cuba, North Korea. China is changing the game somewhat, but not enough. Why would you bring that here?

 

[Flopper]

Governmental can not run like a business so it sure as hell can't run like a household.

 

[IndependntLogic]

I find the oversimplified analogy that our government should be run like a household, interesting. But I've thought about it and there is some merit to it. But there are some rather obvious differences. I never declared war on anyone. That's never profitable. The reverse, actually. It's a drain. I never gave subsidies to my local gas station or farms or whatever. There's another drain. I certainly never gave money to Pakistan or Iraq! Another drain.
However, I do have a strong set of values. I will not call my daughter a socialist if she wants me to pay for her college. Of all the things I would make a priority, that's certainly one. And no, I would prefer she NOT work her way through college as I'd like to see her perform well and graduate cum laude like dad or even better - magna or summa. My daughter has an excellent work ethic, is always on National Honor Role, is an Honor Athlete and starter on the tennis team at a school that was just ranked among America's best high schools by Newsweek, volunteers her time and is just plain great. One of the things I have taught her is that having long term goals and working toward them pays off. Earning a few bucks now, is nothing compared to the benefit of a degree from Stanford or UCLA. Anyone find a flaw in these values?
When my brother got cancer and the caps hit (yes he had insurance but this was before ObamaCare - which I think sucks but it does have a couple good points), we didn't turn our back on him. Would you? We had to sell one of the cars and the house (which turned out to be a blessing in disguise as the market collapsed almost immediately afterward. Thanks God!) but it's not like we would refuse to help with health care of someone in our household. What kind of values does your household have if you would?

So if the government should operate like a household, the question is, what kind of household do we want? The kind that would hand out money to Exxon while we let our kids go without an education? The kind that would make sure our own family members died, if taking care of them cost us money or impinged on the profitability of an insurance company?
You want to compare government spending to be like a household budget, fine - The question is what kind of values does your household have?

I like your analogy, but it fails in several ways.

One, the family is too small to compare in the way you are. Now if you use family and alliances? Better.

First, let me congratulate you on an intelligent and civil post. I like discussions like this with Conservs and Repubs but usually they just sling insults and labels. You are far above the norm.
Second, you make my point for me. The comparison of a household to a government is ridiculous. The complexities fo running a 300 Million person household??? Please.

Missing in your discussion is that your family wouldn't have paid enough equity, even before the downturn, if your family was budgeting, meaning not, back when. It's been well over 3 years now without a plan. Reid says at this point it would be 'stupid' to try, meaning we're too far down the rabbit hole.

It sounds like you're a great parent and your kids are fortunate that way. There are many equally capable, but less fortunate kids that can't get to college unless they do work, even if they don't succeed like you did or your kids might. But they will succeed, because they are willing to work.

Very reasonable insight. It would be best if they could compete with my daughter on an equal level though. She will have unfair advantages but oh well, life in America.

Perhaps you think they should go to college free?
Absolutely. If we can give pakistan $20 Billion firggin dollars, we can educate our kids.
Then so should your daughter, who's performance and extra-curricular activities and service likely outshine theirs, no? Just college, how long do you think the unsustainable will be sustained?
it's not a matter of sustainability, it's a matter of priorities. We do not prioritize our future (our kids).
Now get into food, housing, clothing. How long?
Dorms when available, apartments that have to be paid for, for kids like mine. Same with food and other expenses. My dime.

It didn't work in USSR, Cuba, North Korea. China is changing the game somewhat, but not enough. Why would you bring that here?

Giving kids an education isn't what you'r referring to in those countries. They are the converse of ours. However, Sweden? Austria? Switzerland? The strongest capitalist economies in the world offer free higher education to their youth.

I really like your challenges and that you debate, rather than name call.

 

[Annie]

I find the oversimplified analogy that our government should be run like a household, interesting. But I've thought about it and there is some merit to it. But there are some rather obvious differences. I never declared war on anyone. That's never profitable. The reverse, actually. It's a drain. I never gave subsidies to my local gas station or farms or whatever. There's another drain. I certainly never gave money to Pakistan or Iraq! Another drain.
However, I do have a strong set of values. I will not call my daughter a socialist if she wants me to pay for her college. Of all the things I would make a priority, that's certainly one. And no, I would prefer she NOT work her way through college as I'd like to see her perform well and graduate cum laude like dad or even better - magna or summa. My daughter has an excellent work ethic, is always on National Honor Role, is an Honor Athlete and starter on the tennis team at a school that was just ranked among America's best high schools by Newsweek, volunteers her time and is just plain great. One of the things I have taught her is that having long term goals and working toward them pays off. Earning a few bucks now, is nothing compared to the benefit of a degree from Stanford or UCLA. Anyone find a flaw in these values?
When my brother got cancer and the caps hit (yes he had insurance but this was before ObamaCare - which I think sucks but it does have a couple good points), we didn't turn our back on him. Would you? We had to sell one of the cars and the house (which turned out to be a blessing in disguise as the market collapsed almost immediately afterward. Thanks God!) but it's not like we would refuse to help with health care of someone in our household. What kind of values does your household have if you would?

So if the government should operate like a household, the question is, what kind of household do we want? The kind that would hand out money to Exxon while we let our kids go without an education? The kind that would make sure our own family members died, if taking care of them cost us money or impinged on the profitability of an insurance company?
You want to compare government spending to be like a household budget, fine - The question is what kind of values does your household have?

I like your analogy, but it fails in several ways.

One, the family is too small to compare in the way you are. Now if you use family and alliances? Better.

First, let me congratulate you on an intelligent and civil post. I like discussions like this with Conservs and Repubs but usually they just sling insults and labels. You are far above the norm.
Second, you make my point for me. The comparison of a household to a government is ridiculous. The complexities fo running a 300 Million person household??? Please.

Missing in your discussion is that your family wouldn't have paid enough equity, even before the downturn, if your family was budgeting, meaning not, back when. It's been well over 3 years now without a plan. Reid says at this point it would be 'stupid' to try, meaning we're too far down the rabbit hole.

It sounds like you're a great parent and your kids are fortunate that way. There are many equally capable, but less fortunate kids that can't get to college unless they do work, even if they don't succeed like you did or your kids might. But they will succeed, because they are willing to work.

Very reasonable insight. It would be best if they could compete with my daughter on an equal level though. She will have unfair advantages but oh well, life in America.

Perhaps you think they should go to college free?
Absolutely. If we can give pakistan $20 Billion firggin dollars, we can educate our kids.
Then so should your daughter, who's performance and extra-curricular activities and service likely outshine theirs, no? Just college, how long do you think the unsustainable will be sustained?
it's not a matter of sustainability, it's a matter of priorities. We do not prioritize our future (our kids).
Now get into food, housing, clothing. How long?
Dorms when available, apartments that have to be paid for, for kids like mine. Same with food and other expenses. My dime.

It didn't work in USSR, Cuba, North Korea. China is changing the game somewhat, but not enough. Why would you bring that here?

Giving kids an education isn't what you'r referring to in those countries. They are the converse of ours. However, Sweden? Austria? Switzerland? The strongest capitalist economies in the world offer free higher education to their youth.

I really like your challenges and that you debate, rather than name call.

Thanks for what you said. However, you missed when I went beyond education. If we bankrupt the country, which we are on path towards doing, education level of anyone will be the least of our problems.

I segued off university with the budget riff. While education is my thing, it's not the most expensive game in town, though it's certainly been the most inflationary. That's also why we're going to see far fewer kids getting degrees that don't matter and businesses that don't need college grads requiring diplomas.

No, since the economy has tanked it's food and housing.

Looming is the 'baby boom' and health care and social security and medicare, all far more expensive than college.

So here is I hope, a civil jumping off point for discussion for any and all.

 

[IndependntLogic]

I like your analogy, but it fails in several ways.

One, the family is too small to compare in the way you are. Now if you use family and alliances? Better.

First, let me congratulate you on an intelligent and civil post. I like discussions like this with Conservs and Repubs but usually they just sling insults and labels. You are far above the norm.
Second, you make my point for me. The comparison of a household to a government is ridiculous. The complexities fo running a 300 Million person household??? Please.

Missing in your discussion is that your family wouldn't have paid enough equity, even before the downturn, if your family was budgeting, meaning not, back when. It's been well over 3 years now without a plan. Reid says at this point it would be 'stupid' to try, meaning we're too far down the rabbit hole.

It sounds like you're a great parent and your kids are fortunate that way. There are many equally capable, but less fortunate kids that can't get to college unless they do work, even if they don't succeed like you did or your kids might. But they will succeed, because they are willing to work.

Very reasonable insight. It would be best if they could compete with my daughter on an equal level though. She will have unfair advantages but oh well, life in America.

Perhaps you think they should go to college free?
Absolutely. If we can give pakistan $20 Billion firggin dollars, we can educate our kids.
Then so should your daughter, who's performance and extra-curricular activities and service likely outshine theirs, no? Just college, how long do you think the unsustainable will be sustained?
it's not a matter of sustainability, it's a matter of priorities. We do not prioritize our future (our kids).
Now get into food, housing, clothing. How long?
Dorms when available, apartments that have to be paid for, for kids like mine. Same with food and other expenses. My dime.

It didn't work in USSR, Cuba, North Korea. China is changing the game somewhat, but not enough. Why would you bring that here?

Giving kids an education isn't what you'r referring to in those countries. They are the converse of ours. However, Sweden? Austria? Switzerland? The strongest capitalist economies in the world offer free higher education to their youth.

I really like your challenges and that you debate, rather than name call.

Thanks for what you said. However, you missed when I went beyond education. If we bankrupt the country, which we are on path towards doing, education level of anyone will be the least of our problems.

You miss the point. It's not a matter of spending, it's amatter of priorities.

I segued off university with the budget riff. While education is my thing, it's not the most expensive game in town, though it's certainly been the most inflationary. That's also why we're going to see far fewer kids getting degrees that don't matter and businesses that don't need college grads requiring diplomas.

No, since the economy has tanked it's food and housing.

Looming is the 'baby boom' and health care and social security and medicare, all far more expensive than college.

So here is I hope, a civil jumping off point for discussion for any and all.

So let's say defense, HC and SSI wasn't an issue. Would you support public HC? Simple question.

 

[Annie]

Giving kids an education isn't what you'r referring to in those countries. They are the converse of ours. However, Sweden? Austria? Switzerland? The strongest capitalist economies in the world offer free higher education to their youth.

I really like your challenges and that you debate, rather than name call.

Thanks for what you said. However, you missed when I went beyond education. If we bankrupt the country, which we are on path towards doing, education level of anyone will be the least of our problems.

You miss the point. It's not a matter of spending, it's amatter of priorities.

I segued off university with the budget riff. While education is my thing, it's not the most expensive game in town, though it's certainly been the most inflationary. That's also why we're going to see far fewer kids getting degrees that don't matter and businesses that don't need college grads requiring diplomas.

No, since the economy has tanked it's food and housing.

Looming is the 'baby boom' and health care and social security and medicare, all far more expensive than college.

So here is I hope, a civil jumping off point for discussion for any and all.

So let's say defense, HC and SSI wasn't an issue. Would you support public HC? Simple question.

No. Simple answer.

 

[Lakhota]

This all goes to the very definition of government. Here's some food for thought from a pretty smart guy:

The government is not a household, and shouldn't be run like one - The Washington Post

 

[Annie]

This all goes to the very definition of government. Here's some food for thought from a pretty smart guy:

The government is not a household, and shouldn't be run like one - The Washington Post

Since both of us got that, without your or WaPo's help, we'll move along here.

Go howl at someone elses moon.

 

[dblack]

Governmental can not run like a business so it sure as hell can't run like a household.

Well said.

In my view, both approaches come from the assumption that it's the role of government to 'run' society in the first place. Both views reject the novel American perspective that government is the servant of the people, and not the master. In both cases, whether our leaders treat us as children or employees, the premise involves a ubiquitous state with broad authority over our lives.

Government is a necessary part of modern society. It's an important tool that we use to keep the peace and maintain the commons. But outside that scope it becomes a dangerous weapon that can, and will, be used by ambitious people seeking power over others.

 

[NYcarbineer]

The conservative model is simple:

They want extremely low taxes and an extremely huge military. What little is left over in the form of revenues can go to domestic concerns,

but because there would be so little, a sort of social triage has to happen;

poor kids? No money for their healthcare or education.

poor familes? No money for food, housing, utilities.

etc., etc.

With conservatives, pretty much, the defense lobby's clients feed first at the much smaller trough, and what little is left over, the rest of America's needs can fight over.

 

[NYcarbineer]

The government is run like a household:

 

[dblack]

The conservative model is simple:

They want extremely low taxes and an extremely huge military. What little is left over in the form of revenues can go to domestic concerns,

but because there would be so little, a sort of social triage has to happen;

poor kids? No money for their healthcare or education.

poor familes? No money for food, housing, utilities.

etc., etc.

With conservatives, pretty much, the defense lobby's clients feed first at the much smaller trough, and what little is left over, the rest of America's needs can fight over.

Yeah! It's those mean old conservatives!

They ruin everything.

 

[uscitizen]

The government is run like a household:

Finally some reality of how most American households are run.

How much stuff does American households buy just because of perception or self esteem?

 

[IndependntLogic]

What's interesting is that my inspiration for the OP was that so many Conservatives use the "Government Run Like a Household" analogy.
So I turned it around on them.
Now in this thread, several Conservatives have chimed in about how ridiculous it is to compare running a government to running a household.
Which is true.
Comparing running a government to running a household is just plain ludicrous.

 

[francoHFW]

The idea that anyone wants to bring Communism here shows that pub voters are SOERLY misled and fear mongered. Scary stuff. Pubs have failed miserably whenever in power and their power base is thoroughly wrong on the facts. See sig.

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

I find the oversimplified analogy that our government should be run like a household, interesting. But I've thought about it and there is some merit to it. But there are some rather obvious differences. I never declared war on anyone. That's never profitable. The reverse, actually. It's a drain. I never gave subsidies to my local gas station or farms or whatever. There's another drain. I certainly never gave money to Pakistan or Iraq! Another drain.
However, I do have a strong set of values. I will not call my daughter a socialist if she wants me to pay for her college. Of all the things I would make a priority, that's certainly one. And no, I would prefer she NOT work her way through college as I'd like to see her perform well and graduate cum laude like dad or even better - magna or summa. My daughter has an excellent work ethic, is always on National Honor Role, is an Honor Athlete and starter on the tennis team at a school that was just ranked among America's best high schools by Newsweek, volunteers her time and is just plain great. One of the things I have taught her is that having long term goals and working toward them pays off. Earning a few bucks now, is nothing compared to the benefit of a degree from Stanford or UCLA. Anyone find a flaw in these values?
When my brother got cancer and the caps hit (yes he had insurance but this was before ObamaCare - which I think sucks but it does have a couple good points), we didn't turn our back on him. Would you? We had to sell one of the cars and the house (which turned out to be a blessing in disguise as the market collapsed almost immediately afterward. Thanks God!) but it's not like we would refuse to help with health care of someone in our household. What kind of values does your household have if you would?

So if the government should operate like a household, the question is, what kind of household do we want? The kind that would hand out money to Exxon while we let our kids go without an education? The kind that would make sure our own family members died, if taking care of them cost us money or impinged on the profitability of an insurance company?
You want to compare government spending to be like a household budget, fine - The question is what kind of values does your household have?

Your intention is good, however naïve.

These matters concern public policy issues, guided by statutory regulations.

When my brother got cancer and the caps hit (yes he had insurance but this was before ObamaCare - which I think sucks but it does have a couple good points),

Snag is, the ‘good points’ exist as a consequence of things that ‘suck.’