I say MERRY CHRISTMAS!!!! You got a problem with that?

[007]

Eder is a tool!

quite correct.

a tool of mayhem, which creates awesomeness.

No... you're just a run of the mill, garden variety, two bit jack off.

Now YOU fuck off ya filthy shit stain.


MERRY CHRISTMAS FOXY!

 

[Cuyo]

Gawd you all think Christmas is something special.

It's a mid-winter celebration largely based on the Pagan Yuletide which the church made coincidental with the birth of Jeebus over the centuries.

Nearly every civilization in history has had a similar mid-winter celebration to ease the depression of the changing seasons and short days.

Say whatever you want. Don't get offended when others don't say what you want. Problem solved.

Myself? I don't say much besides 'Bah-humbug,' 'I hate holidays,' and 'Why do assholes have to do their Christmas shopping in Home Depot?'

 

[Ropey]

There are those who think Caps in a title such as this is "Yelling".

It's not. It's called emphasis.

 

[peach174]

Religious demographics were almost 100% Christian when America was founded.
Christmas was established as a Christian Holiday.
76% or more of Americans list some form of Christianity as their religious faith.
America has welcomed and accepted people of many other religious faiths but these still make up a relatively small percentage of the population.
In one way or another, Christmas is observed by almost 100% of the U.S. population either as a religious holiday or as a secular holiday.
Christmas, as Americans have observed it, is largely an American cultural tradition.

Most of my non-Christian friends celebrate Christmas as enthusiastically as the Christians and ad their own traditions to it.

This joke was sent to me by my Jewish friend and neighbor

The Teacher asked young Patrick Murphy: "What do you do at Christmas time?

Patrick addressed the class: "Well Ms. Jones, me and my twelve brothers and sisters go to midnight mass and we sing hymns; then we come home very late and we put mince pies by the back door and hang up our stockings. Then all excited, we go to bed and wait for Father Christmas to come with all our toys.

"Very nice Patrick," she said. "Now Jimmy Brown, what do you do at Christmas?"

Well, Ms. Jones, me and my sister also go to church with Mom and Dad and we sing carols and we get home ever so late. We put cookies and milk by the chimney and we hang up our stockings. We hardly sleep, waiting for Santa Claus to bring our presents.

Realizing there was a Jewish boy in the class and not wanting to leave him out of the discussion, she asked, "Now, Isaac Cohen, what do you do at Christmas?"

Isaac said, "Well, it's the same thing every year...Dad comes home from the office. We all pile into the Rolls Royce; then we drive to Dad's toy factory. When we get inside, we look at all the empty shelves...and begin to sing: “What A Friend We Have in Jesus”. Then we all go to the Bahamas.

The point, is why should it offend ANYBODY to celebrate Christmas as Christmas in churches, in the community, in the schools, and in our homes? If you don't believe in Jesus, there is still Santa Claus and the Grinch. For more than 170 years, American schools enjoyed Christmas plays, Christmas concerts, decorated classrooms, put up a Christmas tree, and enjoyed all the great traditional music, religious and non religious, of the season. Somehow none of the Buddhist or Jewish or Hindu or Atheist kids were corrupted or left out in the least during all this time and most participated and had a ball. It was non coercive, a joy to participate in whether or not somebody was religious, and the high point of the year for many communities.

When there were kids of other faiths in our groups, we learned about and celebrated their religious festivals with them, sang their songs, and learned their traditions too. They didn't demand that Christmas accommodate their beliefs and we Christians didn't demand that they accommodate ours.

Why can't we still do that? Who or why is Christmas being made a derogatory term that 'might be' offensive to somebody and therefore should be avoided or put in the back someplace? What is it to you Atheists, anti-religious, anti-Christian, or others that finds Christmas such a threat? Why is that creche in the public square so offensive to you?

And you Christians and others who love Christmas? Don't you miss the freedom to celebrate Christmas that we once had?

Merry Christmas everybody!!!!! I want to celebrate it!

See how Merry christmas has been turned into a way for the right to say FUCK YOU to people who dont share their religion?

How very christlike

I don't see where it says that anywhere. TM
You are ignoringing where is says everyone was and still is included.
I SAY "MERRY CHRISTMAS TO ALL" !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Ropey]

Religious demographics were almost 100% Christian when America was founded.
Christmas was established as a Christian Holiday.
76% or more of Americans list some form of Christianity as their religious faith.
America has welcomed and accepted people of many other religious faiths but these still make up a relatively small percentage of the population.
In one way or another, Christmas is observed by almost 100% of the U.S. population either as a religious holiday or as a secular holiday.
Christmas, as Americans have observed it, is largely an American cultural tradition.

Most of my non-Christian friends celebrate Christmas as enthusiastically as the Christians and ad their own traditions to it.

This joke was sent to me by my Jewish friend and neighbor



The point, is why should it offend ANYBODY to celebrate Christmas as Christmas in churches, in the community, in the schools, and in our homes? If you don't believe in Jesus, there is still Santa Claus and the Grinch. For more than 170 years, American schools enjoyed Christmas plays, Christmas concerts, decorated classrooms, put up a Christmas tree, and enjoyed all the great traditional music, religious and non religious, of the season. Somehow none of the Buddhist or Jewish or Hindu or Atheist kids were corrupted or left out in the least during all this time and most participated and had a ball. It was non coercive, a joy to participate in whether or not somebody was religious, and the high point of the year for many communities.

When there were kids of other faiths in our groups, we learned about and celebrated their religious festivals with them, sang their songs, and learned their traditions too. They didn't demand that Christmas accommodate their beliefs and we Christians didn't demand that they accommodate ours.

Why can't we still do that? Who or why is Christmas being made a derogatory term that 'might be' offensive to somebody and therefore should be avoided or put in the back someplace? What is it to you Atheists, anti-religious, anti-Christian, or others that finds Christmas such a threat? Why is that creche in the public square so offensive to you?

And you Christians and others who love Christmas? Don't you miss the freedom to celebrate Christmas that we once had?

Merry Christmas everybody!!!!! I want to celebrate it!

See how Merry christmas has been turned into a way for the right to say FUCK YOU to people who dont share their religion?

How very christlike

I don't see where it says that anywhere. TM
You are ignoringing where is says everyone was and still is included.
I SAY "MERRY CHRISTMAS TO ALL" !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I hear someone who is celebrating their belief and say MERRY CHRISTMAS back to you for it is your time to celebrate.

 

[Foxfyre]

Religious demographics were almost 100% Christian when America was founded.
Christmas was established as a Christian Holiday.
76% or more of Americans list some form of Christianity as their religious faith.
America has welcomed and accepted people of many other religious faiths but these still make up a relatively small percentage of the population.
In one way or another, Christmas is observed by almost 100% of the U.S. population either as a religious holiday or as a secular holiday.
Christmas, as Americans have observed it, is largely an American cultural tradition.

Most of my non-Christian friends celebrate Christmas as enthusiastically as the Christians and ad their own traditions to it.

This joke was sent to me by my Jewish friend and neighbor

The Teacher asked young Patrick Murphy: "What do you do at Christmas time?

Patrick addressed the class: "Well Ms. Jones, me and my twelve brothers and sisters go to midnight mass and we sing hymns; then we come home very late and we put mince pies by the back door and hang up our stockings. Then all excited, we go to bed and wait for Father Christmas to come with all our toys.

"Very nice Patrick," she said. "Now Jimmy Brown, what do you do at Christmas?"

Well, Ms. Jones, me and my sister also go to church with Mom and Dad and we sing carols and we get home ever so late. We put cookies and milk by the chimney and we hang up our stockings. We hardly sleep, waiting for Santa Claus to bring our presents.

Realizing there was a Jewish boy in the class and not wanting to leave him out of the discussion, she asked, "Now, Isaac Cohen, what do you do at Christmas?"

Isaac said, "Well, it's the same thing every year...Dad comes home from the office. We all pile into the Rolls Royce; then we drive to Dad's toy factory. When we get inside, we look at all the empty shelves...and begin to sing: “What A Friend We Have in Jesus”. Then we all go to the Bahamas.

The point, is why should it offend ANYBODY to celebrate Christmas as Christmas in churches, in the community, in the schools, and in our homes? If you don't believe in Jesus, there is still Santa Claus and the Grinch. For more than 170 years, American schools enjoyed Christmas plays, Christmas concerts, decorated classrooms, put up a Christmas tree, and enjoyed all the great traditional music, religious and non religious, of the season. Somehow none of the Buddhist or Jewish or Hindu or Atheist kids were corrupted or left out in the least during all this time and most participated and had a ball. It was non coercive, a joy to participate in whether or not somebody was religious, and the high point of the year for many communities.

When there were kids of other faiths in our groups, we learned about and celebrated their religious festivals with them, sang their songs, and learned their traditions too. They didn't demand that Christmas accommodate their beliefs and we Christians didn't demand that they accommodate ours.

Why can't we still do that? Who or why is Christmas being made a derogatory term that 'might be' offensive to somebody and therefore should be avoided or put in the back someplace? What is it to you Atheists, anti-religious, anti-Christian, or others that finds Christmas such a threat? Why is that creche in the public square so offensive to you?

And you Christians and others who love Christmas? Don't you miss the freedom to celebrate Christmas that we once had?

Merry Christmas everybody!!!!! I want to celebrate it!

See how Merry christmas has been turned into a way for the right to say FUCK YOU to people who dont share their religion?

How very christlike

Except that hasn't been happening on this thread has it. The Christians aren't piling into the thread to say 'fuck you' to the non-Christians. But some are saying 'fuck you' and other assorted charming terms to me for bringing up the subject and are describing me in most uncomplimentary ways. Even as they pronounce that the thesis of the thread is bullshit and/or trolling and or lame or whatever, they are obviously very bothered by it. And they lash out. And they get really ugly and hateful.

And THAT (all caps for emphasis bones) is the point of the thread to begin with. Why does the Christmas season, the concept of Christmas bring out the worst in some people? Why do they resent it so?

Peach hit on one example of many. The ACLU has frequently targeted community creches as violation of First Amendment rights. The choral teacher at Moriarty NM (a small town just east of here) was fired for putting one too many Christmas carols in the 'winter program'--they are no longer allowed to have a 'Christmas' concert. (The reason he did it is because the kids begged him to include it.)

A number of stores in Albuquerque awhile back ordered their employees to NOT say "Merry Christmas" to customers, even in return of that greeting directed to them. There was such an outcry most have rescinded that policy now, but some have not. Target still won't allow the Salvation Army kettle in front of their store here because it might 'offend' somebody.

When I was a student in a small southeastern NM town, the Christmas tradition was to combine all the school choirs and do Handel's Messiah. People came for miles around every year to hear it. That is no longer allowed. It is too 'Christian'.

Before the so-called 'war on Christmas', my sister, also a choral teacher, used many traditional Cristian carols, as well as some modern secular stuff, in her annual Christmas concert. All the kids, Spanish, Anglo, Native American, and various other assortments in their multi cultural neighborhood joined in and took joy in the music and preparing to perform it. At one point she became aware of several Jewish kids in the choir. They were singing the music as enthusastically as everybody else, but she came up with a couple of Jewish festival songs and included them in the program. The "Christian" and other non-Jewish kids loved learning the new music and performed it enthusiastically.

To me that is what the season is all about.

Now "Christmas" concerts are no longer allowed in most schools. Why is that? What is it about 'Christmas' that is so offensive to some people that we should downplay it and emphasize something less 'religious'?

 

[peach174]

Then that COURTHOUSE has to allow EVERY religions decorations on it all year long.

Why cant you people follow the constitution?

The Courthouse said they would not have a problem with having a Menorah or anything else that people would want to display. It's just that no one has asked to have their displays up.

No one has ever said anything about decorations all year long.

 

[SAT2]

Except that hasn't been happening on this thread has it. The Christians aren't piling into the thread to say 'fuck you' to the non-Christians.

You seem like a really nice person, but you are trying to insist that your belief system be put into public schools, whether you realize it or not.

 

[Foxfyre]

Except that hasn't been happening on this thread has it. The Christians aren't piling into the thread to say 'fuck you' to the non-Christians.

You seem like a really nice person, but you are trying to insist that your belief system be put into public schools, whether you realize it or not.

Not at all. Christmas is a national holiday in the USA and for most of more than 170 years the kids were allowed to celebrate it in the schools and everybody else was allowed to celebrate it without question or consideration of any PC stuff complete with Christmas carols, Christmas trees, and all the trimmings. It was great fun for all. Now most schools aren't allowed to acknowledge 'Christmas' much less decorate for it or celebrate it.

I just want the schools that want to celebrate Christmas to be allowed to do that without getting a lot of sh*t thrown at them for it. And I see not allowing them to do that is far more coercive than any Christmas celebration used to be.

 

[SAT2]

Except that hasn't been happening on this thread has it. The Christians aren't piling into the thread to say 'fuck you' to the non-Christians.

You seem like a really nice person, but you are trying to insist that your belief system be put into public schools, whether you realize it or not.

Not at all. Christmas is a national holiday in the USA and for most of more than 170 years the kids were allowed to celebrate it in the schools and everybody else was allowed to celebrate it without question or consideration of any PC stuff complete with Christmas carols, Christmas trees, and all the trimmings. It was great fun for all. Now most schools aren't allowed to acknowledge 'Christmas' much less decorate for it or celebrate it.

I just want the schools that want to celebrate Christmas to be allowed to do that without getting a lot of sh*t thrown at them for it. And I see not allowing them to do that is far more coercive than any Christmas celebration used to be.

And you're advocating that we go back to we Christians subjecting non-Christians to our holidays in the schools.

 

[Foxfyre]

You seem like a really nice person, but you are trying to insist that your belief system be put into public schools, whether you realize it or not.

Not at all. Christmas is a national holiday in the USA and for most of more than 170 years the kids were allowed to celebrate it in the schools and everybody else was allowed to celebrate it without question or consideration of any PC stuff complete with Christmas carols, Christmas trees, and all the trimmings. It was great fun for all. Now most schools aren't allowed to acknowledge 'Christmas' much less decorate for it or celebrate it.

I just want the schools that want to celebrate Christmas to be allowed to do that without getting a lot of sh*t thrown at them for it. And I see not allowing them to do that is far more coercive than any Christmas celebration used to be.

And you're advocating that we go back to we Christians subjecting non-Christians to our holidays in the schools.

As I have taken some pains to illustrate, I don't think the non-Christians thought they were being subjected to anything other than the traditions of a national holiday and it was fun for all. My question is why, when it was never much, if any, of a problem before, it is such a big deal now to not celebrate CHRISTMAS (all caps for emphasis bones) lest we offend somebody? Why should anybody be offended about celebrating all the traditions of a holiday established as a national holiday? Nobody requires anybody to believe in Santa Claus or Rudolph or the Grinch or Jesus in order to celebrate the holiday including all those traditions.

 

[SAT2]

Not at all. Christmas is a national holiday in the USA and for most of more than 170 years the kids were allowed to celebrate it in the schools and everybody else was allowed to celebrate it without question or consideration of any PC stuff complete with Christmas carols, Christmas trees, and all the trimmings. It was great fun for all. Now most schools aren't allowed to acknowledge 'Christmas' much less decorate for it or celebrate it.

I just want the schools that want to celebrate Christmas to be allowed to do that without getting a lot of sh*t thrown at them for it. And I see not allowing them to do that is far more coercive than any Christmas celebration used to be.

And you're advocating that we go back to we Christians subjecting non-Christians to our holidays in the schools.

As I have taken some pains to illustrate, I don't think the non-Christians thought they were being subjected to anything other than the traditions of a national holiday and it was fun for all. My question is why, when it was never much, if any, of a problem before, it is such a big deal now to not celebrate CHRISTMAS (all caps for emphasis bones) lest we offend somebody? Why should anybody be offended about celebrating all the traditions of a holiday established as a national holiday? Nobody requires anybody to believe in Santa Claus or Rudolph or the Grinch or Jesus in order to celebrate the holiday including all those traditions.

Try talking to some Jewish families, and get back to me.

It's not about being offended. It's about the freedom to believe as you choose, and not to be forced to attend someone else's religious celebrations.

 

[xotoxi]

I say MERRY CHRISTMAS!!!! You got a problem with that?

I have no problem with it.

And I would hope that you would not be offended by someone who says "Happy Holidays" to you.

I am not the least bit offended by somebody greeting me with Happy Holidays or Happy Hannukah or any other greeting that is actually a greeting. I just don't understand why all the other greetings are okay but saying Merry Christmas and celebrating Christmas as Christmas should be offensive to anybody.

And so far nobody seems to want to deal with that but are dancing all around it with all sorts of other stuff.

Would you say Merry Christmas to a Jew? And if so, why?

 

[syrenn]

You seem like a really nice person, but you are trying to insist that your belief system be put into public schools, whether you realize it or not.

Not at all. Christmas is a national holiday in the USA and for most of more than 170 years the kids were allowed to celebrate it in the schools and everybody else was allowed to celebrate it without question or consideration of any PC stuff complete with Christmas carols, Christmas trees, and all the trimmings. It was great fun for all. Now most schools aren't allowed to acknowledge 'Christmas' much less decorate for it or celebrate it.

I just want the schools that want to celebrate Christmas to be allowed to do that without getting a lot of sh*t thrown at them for it. And I see not allowing them to do that is far more coercive than any Christmas celebration used to be.

And you're advocating that we go back to we Christians subjecting non-Christians to our holidays in the schools.

Which is why "holiday decorations" in school would be the way to go...it includes everyone's holiday. Snow flakes and snow men.... ginger bread houses and holly...a constructions pater chain and a string of lights.....

I dont have an issue with any of that kind of stuff in schools. Now if they want to put up a nativity scene...and i have a problem with that. Same way i will have a problem with a menorah or some kid on a prayer mat.

 

[Foxfyre]

And you're advocating that we go back to we Christians subjecting non-Christians to our holidays in the schools.

As I have taken some pains to illustrate, I don't think the non-Christians thought they were being subjected to anything other than the traditions of a national holiday and it was fun for all. My question is why, when it was never much, if any, of a problem before, it is such a big deal now to not celebrate CHRISTMAS (all caps for emphasis bones) lest we offend somebody? Why should anybody be offended about celebrating all the traditions of a holiday established as a national holiday? Nobody requires anybody to believe in Santa Claus or Rudolph or the Grinch or Jesus in order to celebrate the holiday including all those traditions.

Try talking to some Jewish families, and get back to me.

It's not about being offended. It's about the freedom to believe as you choose, and not to be forced to attend someone else's religious celebrations.

Try reading what I have written, including re Jewish families. Already answered.

Christmas is not a Jewish holiday. I have no problem whatsoever with Jewish people celebrating Hannukah or Yom Kippor or whatever they wish to celebrate. I am not the least offended by Jewish greetings nor Jewish customs nor Jewish imagery and symbols and in fact find them charming.

Christmas is a national holday and its Christian roots are not a problem because more than 70% of Americans describe themselves as Christian. There is something to enjoy and appreciate in the celebration/festival/traditions/customs for everybody, Christian and non-Christian alike however.

I'm sure that Hannukah and Yom Kippor are national holidays and Christmas is not celebrated as a national holiday in Israel even though only about 75% of the population there are Jewish. About 2% of Israelis are Christian. About the same percentage of the American population are Jewish. The Christians in Israel are in no way offended by the celebration of Jewish holidays and there is no effort to downplay Jewish festivals and make them more P.C. to avoid offending somebody. Nor should there be.

So why should Americans downplay their own national holiday? Who is offended by it? And why should they be?

 

[Foxfyre]

I have no problem with it.

And I would hope that you would not be offended by someone who says "Happy Holidays" to you.

I am not the least bit offended by somebody greeting me with Happy Holidays or Happy Hannukah or any other greeting that is actually a greeting. I just don't understand why all the other greetings are okay but saying Merry Christmas and celebrating Christmas as Christmas should be offensive to anybody.

And so far nobody seems to want to deal with that but are dancing all around it with all sorts of other stuff.

Would you say Merry Christmas to a Jew? And if so, why?

I don't divide people up into groups. Merry Christmas is my greeting to everybody. If I KNOW (all caps for emphasis bones) somebody is a Jew I will usually also include a Happy Hannukah. And my Jewish friends all wish us a Happy Hannukah, sometimes with a wink. I love it.

Why should a Jew or anybody be offended by a heartfelt Merry Christmas when that is what the national holiday is?

 

[xotoxi]

I am not the least bit offended by somebody greeting me with Happy Holidays or Happy Hannukah or any other greeting that is actually a greeting. I just don't understand why all the other greetings are okay but saying Merry Christmas and celebrating Christmas as Christmas should be offensive to anybody.

And so far nobody seems to want to deal with that but are dancing all around it with all sorts of other stuff.

Would you say Merry Christmas to a Jew? And if so, why?

I don't divide people up into groups. Merry Christmas is my greeting to everybody. If I KNOW (all caps for emphasis bones) somebody is a Jew I will usually also include a Happy Hannukah. And my Jewish friends all wish us a Happy Hannukah, sometimes with a wink. I love it.

Why should a Jew or anybody be offended by a heartfelt Merry Christmas when that is what the national holiday is?

Then I don't really see the problem.

 

[xotoxi]

Are you offended that an elementary school has a "Holiday Party" on December 22nd?

 

[Foxfyre]

Not at all. Christmas is a national holiday in the USA and for most of more than 170 years the kids were allowed to celebrate it in the schools and everybody else was allowed to celebrate it without question or consideration of any PC stuff complete with Christmas carols, Christmas trees, and all the trimmings. It was great fun for all. Now most schools aren't allowed to acknowledge 'Christmas' much less decorate for it or celebrate it.

I just want the schools that want to celebrate Christmas to be allowed to do that without getting a lot of sh*t thrown at them for it. And I see not allowing them to do that is far more coercive than any Christmas celebration used to be.

And you're advocating that we go back to we Christians subjecting non-Christians to our holidays in the schools.

Which is why "holiday decorations" in school would be the way to go...it includes everyone's holiday. Snow flakes and snow men.... ginger bread houses and holly...a constructions pater chain and a string of lights.....

I dont have an issue with any of that kind of stuff in schools. Now if they want to put up a nativity scene...and i have a problem with that. Same way i will have a problem with a menorah or some kid on a prayer mat.

The kids in a classroom want to make a paper mache nativity scene. The teacher asks if everybody wants to do that and all do. Would you have a problem with that?

I agree it would be inappropriate for the school itself to put up a nativity scene, but why shouldn't there be a Christmas tree called a CHRISTMAS tree (all caps for emphasis bones) complete with lights, tinsel, ornaments, and a star on top even though that star symbolizes the star of Bethlehem for the Christians and is just a star to everybody else? It is a national holiday and has been since 1870 with Christmas being celebrated in schools long before that.

Why should public school students be denied the ability to learn and experience all the magnificent traditional Christmas music over the ages even though some of it is based on religious themes? None of that should be taught as theology of course in the public schools, but to learn and perform the music itself? To me it is ridiculous to deny all the students, Christian and non Christian alike, that wonderful experience.

Christmas is a national holiday and should be celebrated as Christmas and not be required to be transformed into something else. I do not understand why Christmas should be offensive to anybody.

 

[Foxfyre]

Are you offended that an elementary school has a "Holiday Party" on December 22nd?

Not in the least. I am offended, however, when school children are denied the fun and joy of celebrating Christmas on December 22 when they want to do that.