I say MERRY CHRISTMAS!!!! You got a problem with that?

[Sky Dancer]

What I have a problem with, is someone wishing me Merry Christmas when they don't wish me any kind of merriness at all. If they know I'm NOT a Christmas celebrant, Merry Christmas instead of Happy Holidays is more about THEM than me.

I hate to tell you sky, but wishing someone anything is about you wishing your whatever onto some else.

ff will wish someone merry christmas as she celebrates christmas
Jews will wish a happy Hanukkah
muslims will wish a happy ramadan ( i think, dont know for sure)

and so on.

Happy New Year is wishing someone a happy new year. Tashi Deleg means "may all be auspicious for you".

Merry Christmas is meaningless if you don't celebrate Christmas. Merry Christmas is a religous greeting. It presupposes you find Christmas to be merry.

FF will wish Merry Christmas whether the person is Jewish, Hindu, Buddhist or atheist, and it has NOTHING to do with well wishing. It has to do with shoving her religion onto others, and thinking she's entitled to do so. FF doesn't want anyone else to use a greeting other than Merry Christmas. I disagree. I have no problem wishing Christians Merry Christmas, even the aggressive ones like FF. I hope she has a Merry Christmas and Happy New Year.

Well wishing is appropriate to each. Happy Hannukah for a Jew. Happy New Year for an atheist. Happy Holidays for non-christians. Tashi Deleg for Tibetan Buddhists.

JMO, of course.

This whole thread is a "put up yer dukes, I'm gonna say Merry Christmas to you whether that offends you or is meaningless to you. Very aggressive.

Personally, I wouldn't get a merry or happy wish of any kind from FF. She hates my guts.

May all beings be happy. May whatever makes you happy be abundant in your life. May those who find Solstice meaningful be happy. May Jews be happy at Hannukah and throughout the year. May Christmas be meaningful for followers of Christ and people who just enjoy being with family on this day.

May all have a Happy New Year.

 

[Sky Dancer]

Presidents add God into their speeches because every last one of them believes in God.

 

[CMike]

Also the founding fathers were diests.

 

[Sky Dancer]

Also the founding fathers were diests.

Don't you know they were all Christian and the US is a Christian nation? What's the matter with you? Do you hate America?

 

[SAT2]

Well I have addressed this at length and, based on this post, you apparently either didn't read what I wrote or you didn't understand it or you just don't want to. I would suggest that you go back over what I have already written here if you are at all interested in what does offend me as you apparently still don't have a clue. I lose interest in your opinion as soon as you go ad hominem though. And I also know you're entirely out of ammo in the debate when you do that too. So do have a nice evening.

Do you or don't you want Christmas traditions like Santa in the public schools?

Calling you pushy is not ad hominem.

 

[Sky Dancer]

Instead, we should all be reprimanded by sanctimonious culture warriors demanding that the Jewish and Muslim kids all color Rudolph.

I am unaware of that demand being made on anybody including those who aren't Jewish or Muslim. The thread title was indeed intended to be tongue-in-cheek, but you still aren't reading what I am writing if you think this is about forcing anything on anybody. This is about ALLOWING people to celebrate Christmas however they choose to do so without reprimand from the PC police. As far as school goes, if the kids are enthusiastic about having Christmas traditions at school, any teacher worth his or her salt should be able to figure out how to allow that without coercing anybody.

It is far more coercive to forbid it of everybody lest somebody 'might' be offended.

1. Yes, if it's in the public schools, you're forcing it on children. I doubt that the Jewish and Muslim parents want their kids coming home asking for a Christmas tree and gifts from Santa.

2. You're getting offended at people being offended by your pushiness.

Bingo. Some people feel entitled to be pushy, and are astonished when someone pushes back.

 

[Foxfyre]

Presidents add god into speeches becasue they would be ousted from office if they did not....god was the political orators trick for a very long time and still is to some extent.

the only thing religious i ever got out of thanksgiving was when my mother would "volunteer" to provide something for the entire congregations feast....and then come to me to produce it. You volunteered for what??? ... stuffing for... ... 300 people?

LOL. Thanksgiving was never a religious occasion for my family either and I didn't think of it as one though the Thanksgiving Dinner was one occasion in which we would not skip saying grace even if the folks watching football in the living room never heard it. But it was always acknowledged at church as you mentioned with an all-church Thanksgiving potluck. As a choir director I hunted for appropriate music for Thanksgiving Sunday and the preacher would always tailor his sermon on a Thanksgiving theme that day. But as a kid I loved Thanksgiving because there was so much special food and no church required.

But I'm glad you sort of recognize Thanksgiving as established as a religious national holiday. It was established that way and has been nationally recognized that way ever since. It has changed with the culture, but it is what it is.

I still say National Holidays are what people make of them. Memorial Day is a solemn occasion of visiting graves or laying wreaths or attending a military function for many. For most it is just a day off work. The Fourth of July is a time to be really patriotic for some and it is just fireworks and maybe a parade for others, or in our case, trying to calm panicked critters. New Years Day is full of traditions for some family--we HAVE to have blackeyed peas--but its just a day off work to watch football for others or to suffer a hangover after the New Year's Eve party.

Christmas is no different. A high holy day to some. For the rest of us a family time to exchange gifts, have special Christmas food, and enjoy the day.

It is all part of our historical heritage and our uniquely American culture. And I want to celebrate it all in all settings without fear of reprimand from the political correctness police.

I see thanksgiving as an established federal holiday ff..... not an established religious holiday.

I do think Thanksgiving is uniquely American and secular. .

But history isn't on your side on that Syrenn. Lincoln's proclamation made it very clear that the national holiday was established to thank God for our blessings. That makes it religious.

The fact that you see it as secular, however, is what makes our national holidays the wonderful multi-generational, multi-cultural, and all inclusive heritage that we all share. So long as we don't dictate to each other what a national holiday HAS to be, it can be whatever each of us make of it. That is how America was supposed to operate from the get go. If somebody sees it as a religious holiday, great. If the next person doesn't, that's cool too.

Likewise, if Christmas is shoved down anybody's throat, which nobody has advocated, that goes against everything our culture was intended to be. To forbid Christmas or mandatorily make it unacceptable in ANY setting also goes against everything our culture was intended to be. Each community should celebrate Christmas or not as a community and as it wishes. Same for every school district. Same for every family or group. That is what the Founders intended with a government that would secure the rights of the people and then otherwise leave them alone to govern themselves as they chose.

Christmas is a National Holiday and I want the privilege to celebrate it as Christmas. If the next person doesn't want to do that well that's his/her privilege not to do as well.

Received this in my e-mail a little while ago and checked it out on Snopes to be sure it was authentic. According to Snopes it is:

. . . .I am a Jew, and every single one of my ancestors was Jewish. And it does not bother me even a little bit when people call those beautiful lit up, bejeweled trees, Christmas trees. I don't feel threatened. I don't feel discriminated against. That's what they are, Christmas trees.

It doesn't bother me a bit when people say, 'Merry Christmas' to me. I don't think they are slighting me or getting ready to put me in a ghetto. In fact, I kind of like it. It shows that we are all brothers and sisters celebrating this happy time of year. It doesn't bother me at all that there is a manger scene on display at a key intersection near my beach house in Malibu . If people want a creche, it's just as fine with me as is the Menorah a few hundred yards away.

I don't like getting pushed around for being a Jew, and I don't think Christians like getting pushed around for being Christians. I think people who believe in God are sick and tired of getting pushed around, period. I have no idea where the concept came from, that America is an explicitly atheist country. I can't find it in the Constitution and I don't like it being shoved down my throat.

Or maybe I can put it another way: where did the idea come from that we should worship celebrities and we aren't allowed to worship God ? I guess that's a sign that I'm getting old, too. But there are a lot of us who are wondering where these celebrities came from and where the America we knew went to. . . .

--Ben Stein, 2005

snopes.com: Ben Stein's 'Confessions for the Holidays'

 

[CMike]

Also the founding fathers were diests.

Don't you know they were all Christian and the US is a Christian nation? What's the matter with you? Do you hate America?

Also Christianity is a national holiday.

Have you forgotten?

 

[SAT2]

Why diminish Christmas by making it part of the state instead of part of a religion?

 

[Sky Dancer]

Also the founding fathers were diests.

Don't you know they were all Christian and the US is a Christian nation? What's the matter with you? Do you hate America?

Also Christianity is a national holiday.

Have you forgotten?

Well, since it's a NATIONAL holiday, I guess I'm FORCED to celebrate it, LOL. After all, Christianity and the Nation are One. Just ask FF. ("She Who Must Be Obeyed")

 

[Care4all]

Christmas history in America : see also Santa Claus in America​

In the early 17th century, a wave of religious reform changed the way Christmas was celebrated

in Europe. When Oliver Cromwell and his Puritan forces took over England in 1645, they vowed to rid England of decadence and, as part of their effort, cancelled Christmas. By popular demand, Charles II was restored to the throne and, with him, came the return of the popular holiday.
The pilgrims, English separatists that came to America in 1620, were even more orthodox in their Puritan beliefs than Cromwell. As a result, Christmas was not a holiday in early America. From 1659 to 1681, the celebration of Christmas was actually outlawed in Boston. Anyone exhibiting the Christmas spirit was fined five shillings. By contrast, in the Jamestown settlement, Captain John Smith reported that Christmas was enjoyed by all and passed without incident.

After the American Revolution, English customs fell out of favor, including Christmas. In fact, Congress was in session on December 25, 1789, the first Christmas under America’s new constitution. Christmas wasn’t declared a federal holiday until June 26, 1870.
[FONT=Arial, Arial, Helvetica]Washington Irving reinvents Christmas
It wasn’t until the 19th century that Americans began to embrace Christmas. Americans re-invented Christmas, and changed it from a raucous carnival holiday into a family-centered day of peace and nostalgia. But what about the 1800s peaked American interest in the holiday?

The early 19th century was a period of class conflict and turmoil. During this time, unemployment was high and gang rioting by the disenchanted classes often occurred during the Christmas season. In 1828, the New York city council instituted the city’s first police force in response to a Christmas riot. This catalyzed certain members of the upper classes to begin to change the way Christmas was celebrated in America.

[/FONT]

read the rest of Christmas holiday history in the USA here:

Christmas History

 

[Ravi]

What I have a problem with, is someone wishing me Merry Christmas when they don't wish me any kind of merriness at all. If they know I'm NOT a Christmas celebrant, Merry Christmas instead of Happy Holidays is more about THEM than me.

I hate to tell you sky, but wishing someone anything is about you wishing your whatever onto some else.

ff will wish someone merry christmas as she celebrates christmas
Jews will wish a happy Hanukkah
muslims will wish a happy ramadan ( i think, dont know for sure)

and so on.

I have never been wished a happy Hanukkah or a happy Ramadan.

 

[Ravi]

What I have a problem with, is someone wishing me Merry Christmas when they don't wish me any kind of merriness at all. If they know I'm NOT a Christmas celebrant, Merry Christmas instead of Happy Holidays is more about THEM than me.

I hate to tell you sky, but wishing someone anything is about you wishing your whatever onto some else.

ff will wish someone merry christmas as she celebrates christmas
Jews will wish a happy Hanukkah
muslims will wish a happy ramadan ( i think, dont know for sure)

and so on.

Happy New Year is wishing someone a happy new year. Tashi Deleg means "may all be auspicious for you".

Merry Christmas is meaningless if you don't celebrate Christmas. Merry Christmas is a religous greeting. It presupposes you find Christmas to be merry.

FF will wish Merry Christmas whether the person is Jewish, Hindu, Buddhist or atheist, and it has NOTHING to do with well wishing. It has to do with shoving her religion onto others, and thinking she's entitled to do so. FF doesn't want anyone else to use a greeting other than Merry Christmas. I disagree. I have no problem wishing Christians Merry Christmas, even the aggressive ones like FF. I hope she has a Merry Christmas and Happy New Year.

Well wishing is appropriate to each. Happy Hannukah for a Jew. Happy New Year for an atheist. Happy Holidays for non-christians. Tashi Deleg for Tibetan Buddhists.

JMO, of course.

This whole thread is a "put up yer dukes, I'm gonna say Merry Christmas to you whether that offends you or is meaningless to you. Very aggressive.

Personally, I wouldn't get a merry or happy wish of any kind from FF. She hates my guts.

May all beings be happy. May whatever makes you happy be abundant in your life. May those who find Solstice meaningful be happy. May Jews be happy at Hannukah and throughout the year. May Christmas be meaningful for followers of Christ and people who just enjoy being with family on this day.

May all have a Happy New Year.

I think you are right about FF, she is the type of person that will wish someone a Merry Christmas in a way that is all about her instead of actually spreading cheer.

But not all Christians do this....in fact I'd guess the majority of them don't.

 

[Ravi]

Christmas history in America : see also Santa Claus in America​

In the early 17th century, a wave of religious reform changed the way Christmas was celebrated

in Europe. When Oliver Cromwell and his Puritan forces took over England in 1645, they vowed to rid England of decadence and, as part of their effort, cancelled Christmas. By popular demand, Charles II was restored to the throne and, with him, came the return of the popular holiday.
The pilgrims, English separatists that came to America in 1620, were even more orthodox in their Puritan beliefs than Cromwell. As a result, Christmas was not a holiday in early America. From 1659 to 1681, the celebration of Christmas was actually outlawed in Boston. Anyone exhibiting the Christmas spirit was fined five shillings. By contrast, in the Jamestown settlement, Captain John Smith reported that Christmas was enjoyed by all and passed without incident.

After the American Revolution, English customs fell out of favor, including Christmas. In fact, Congress was in session on December 25, 1789, the first Christmas under America’s new constitution. Christmas wasn’t declared a federal holiday until June 26, 1870.
[FONT=Arial, Arial, Helvetica]Washington Irving reinvents Christmas
It wasn’t until the 19th century that Americans began to embrace Christmas. Americans re-invented Christmas, and changed it from a raucous carnival holiday into a family-centered day of peace and nostalgia. But what about the 1800s peaked American interest in the holiday?

The early 19th century was a period of class conflict and turmoil. During this time, unemployment was high and gang rioting by the disenchanted classes often occurred during the Christmas season. In 1828, the New York city council instituted the city’s first police force in response to a Christmas riot. This catalyzed certain members of the upper classes to begin to change the way Christmas was celebrated in America.

[/FONT]

read the rest of Christmas holiday history in the USA here:

Christmas History

In other words, our own government made Christmas into what it is....delicious.

Merry Christmas, Care.

 

[strollingbones]

this thread needs to be put to bed...simple as that

 

[Article 15]

this thread needs to be put to bed...simple as that

I'm gonna BUMP IT!!!!! You got a problem with that?

 

[Sky Dancer]

I hate to tell you sky, but wishing someone anything is about you wishing your whatever onto some else.

ff will wish someone merry christmas as she celebrates christmas
Jews will wish a happy Hanukkah
muslims will wish a happy ramadan ( i think, dont know for sure)

and so on.

Happy New Year is wishing someone a happy new year. Tashi Deleg means "may all be auspicious for you".

Merry Christmas is meaningless if you don't celebrate Christmas. Merry Christmas is a religous greeting. It presupposes you find Christmas to be merry.

FF will wish Merry Christmas whether the person is Jewish, Hindu, Buddhist or atheist, and it has NOTHING to do with well wishing. It has to do with shoving her religion onto others, and thinking she's entitled to do so. FF doesn't want anyone else to use a greeting other than Merry Christmas. I disagree. I have no problem wishing Christians Merry Christmas, even the aggressive ones like FF. I hope she has a Merry Christmas and Happy New Year.

Well wishing is appropriate to each. Happy Hannukah for a Jew. Happy New Year for an atheist. Happy Holidays for non-christians. Tashi Deleg for Tibetan Buddhists.

JMO, of course.

This whole thread is a "put up yer dukes, I'm gonna say Merry Christmas to you whether that offends you or is meaningless to you. Very aggressive.

Personally, I wouldn't get a merry or happy wish of any kind from FF. She hates my guts.

May all beings be happy. May whatever makes you happy be abundant in your life. May those who find Solstice meaningful be happy. May Jews be happy at Hannukah and throughout the year. May Christmas be meaningful for followers of Christ and people who just enjoy being with family on this day.

May all have a Happy New Year.

I think you are right about FF, she is the type of person that will wish someone a Merry Christmas in a way that is all about her instead of actually spreading cheer.

But not all Christians do this....in fact I'd guess the majority of them don't.

The majority of Christians are merely happy on Christmas and want to share their happiness, not shove their faith up anyone's nose.

The ones who make Christmas political do so out of wanting Christianity to dominate even more than it already does.

 

[syrenn]

Christmas history in America : see also Santa Claus in America​

In the early 17th century, a wave of religious reform changed the way Christmas was celebrated

in Europe. When Oliver Cromwell and his Puritan forces took over England in 1645, they vowed to rid England of decadence and, as part of their effort, cancelled Christmas. By popular demand, Charles II was restored to the throne and, with him, came the return of the popular holiday.
The pilgrims, English separatists that came to America in 1620, were even more orthodox in their Puritan beliefs than Cromwell. As a result, Christmas was not a holiday in early America. From 1659 to 1681, the celebration of Christmas was actually outlawed in Boston. Anyone exhibiting the Christmas spirit was fined five shillings. By contrast, in the Jamestown settlement, Captain John Smith reported that Christmas was enjoyed by all and passed without incident.

After the American Revolution, English customs fell out of favor, including Christmas. In fact, Congress was in session on December 25, 1789, the first Christmas under America’s new constitution. Christmas wasn’t declared a federal holiday until June 26, 1870.
[FONT=Arial, Arial, Helvetica]Washington Irving reinvents Christmas
It wasn’t until the 19th century that Americans began to embrace Christmas. Americans re-invented Christmas, and changed it from a raucous carnival holiday into a family-centered day of peace and nostalgia. But what about the 1800s peaked American interest in the holiday?

The early 19th century was a period of class conflict and turmoil. During this time, unemployment was high and gang rioting by the disenchanted classes often occurred during the Christmas season. In 1828, the New York city council instituted the city’s first police force in response to a Christmas riot. This catalyzed certain members of the upper classes to begin to change the way Christmas was celebrated in America.

[/FONT]

read the rest of Christmas holiday history in the USA here:

Christmas History

Well shit.. ill have to look it all up if you need links


But his is what i know of the santa history

Comes from the Dutch Sinter klaus which was observed in the first week in December. It was about Sinter klaus giving gifts to children. The Dutch in America at that time was NYC, (new Amsterdam) and when the English took it over and gave them the boot, they kept the Sinter klass tradition becasue they liked it. However they changed the timing of it to christmas/christmas eve to become one with English/christian holiday. The name slowly turned from sinter klass to santa clause.

Santa is not a religious figure. Just a tradition that as become celebrated at the same time as a religious on.

 

[strollingbones]

this thread needs to be put to bed...simple as that

I'm gonna BUMP IT!!!!! You got a problem with that?

*shaking head sadly*