I know it won't make a difference to the radicalized people....

[Sonny Clark]

I've heard it said that the test of a society is how it treats its most vulnerable people. Seems a lot of people here would find that too human a concept.

Here and within the far right wing of the Republican party. They complain and point fingers until they're blue in the face but refuse to offer any real solutions to problems.

The solutions are fairly simple. I've given them many times over the years. It's not rocket science. I've repeated them so many times, that I wonder why so many people still ask for solutions. And, I'm not the only one that has tried to get the points across to citizens. Think about this for a second. What are the roots to most of our problems? Once you figure out the answer to that question, the solution will jump out at you. HINT: It doesn't take an MIT graduate, nor a Philadelphia lawyer to understand our problems, and see where their roots lay.

 

[Bonzi]

Again, it's about stretching a dollar. I know people that live well on less than $75,000 combined income 1 hour outside of DC. It's doable, but, we are spoiled and luxuries in live are considered necessities and they are not.

That's $18 an hour.

that's owning a home, 2 vehicles, cell phones, internet and cable TV
you can rent a room, have vehicle, have a cheap pay as you go cell phone, no internet and no cable Tv and make is on much less... I'm talking living with LUXURIES at $75,000 for 2 people combined.

I bet they have health insurance, too.

We are owed nothing.
That's the whole problem with this Country. Handouts.

NOT true. You're owed fair, equal, and just representation if you're an American citizen and pay taxes. FYI - Social Security is NOT a handout. As a matter of fact, everything is paid for with tax dollars. Those tax dollars are collected from citizens. It's the same as the roads you drive on, the national security you expect, and the services of the fire department. So, what are handouts?

You are not OWED a $15 minimum wage. Especially when you can live comfortably on less.
There is a fair system. I do no get paid to come up with one, but know that what we have now is a corrupt mess. You say people have no one to blame but themselves, I say, this country is in such a horrible state and our children and grandchildren will have to pay for it, and they are NOT to blame.

Bad choices and moral decay are to blame. We can sit on this board and chew on this until the cows come home, but, ultimately, if people will take care of themselves, pull up their bootstraps and start DOING and stop TALKING we'll all be better off. That includes myself.

 

[Bonzi]

Who do you consider vulnerable?

Those in full time work not earning a living wage who must be subsidised by the taxpayer.

So it's either screw the people making money or screw the business, and let the slackers continue to slack?
I don't think so....

No one is talking about slackers. The most vocal people in the debate are those working multiple jobs just to make ends meet. Everyone deserves a roof over their head, food in their stomach, and the chance to better themselves and their situation, period.

They do that by bettering themselves. Not by forcing people to pay them more money for doing unskilled work badly.

If I could agree and thank you both; I would.

 

[g5000]

But sometimes it has to simplified for some people to understand the argument.

View attachment 45796

If paramedics quit to go work at McD's, what do you think will happen to paramedic salaries?

 

[Bonzi]

If we paid top dollar to our police force, teachers, fireman and paramedics....
What would happen? (serious question....)

 

[Sonny Clark]

But sometimes it has to simplified for some people to understand the argument.

View attachment 45796

The president of the United States makes approximately $400,000 a year plus many other perks and benefits. A surgeon averages $250,000 a year saving lives and relieving pain and suffering. The president of the United States causes and allows social and economic pain and suffering. A stripper can make $500.00 a night or more showing her ass and swinging on a pole. A lawyer can make $Millions a year helping the wealthy, the powerful, the influential, and celebrities beat criminal charges. A preacher can make $Millions selling religion. A used car salesman can make $80,000 a year selling junk cars.

So, your point is? If everything fair? Are wages fair across the board? Are some worth more than they're paid? Are some paid way more than they're worth? Is a U.S. Congressperson worth what taxpayers are paying them? Considering the perks and benefits that a member of Congress gets, are they worth it? Are some people in this country over-paid? Are some people in this country under-paid? Is life fair? Is there an absolute value for everything and everyone? Is a meal really worth $80.00 just because it's served in an elite neighborhood, and in a fancy building? Is a cup of coffee at Starbucks really worth $8.00?

Think about it.

The point is, you are not "owed" by anyone. flipping burgers DESERVES less money - I don't care if the industry demands it or not. If the business determines they WANT to pay more to a fast food employee, fine, but the Gov't should not mandate a minimum wage of $15 per hour. That is the Government making decisions for businesses and is a very leftwing/liberal agenda.

LESS GOVERNMENT INVOLVEMENT PLEASE!

Who allowed the government to do it? Who is responsible for the government we have seated in Washington? Who gave government Carte Blanche to do as they damn well please? Why bitch about government and blame them when they're only doing what they've been allowed to do? It's a cop-out to continue to blame government for everything, when the stupid damn voters are the ones that placed the damn anti-America crooks in office. When do you think it'll be, when voters start accepting responsibility for what happens in this once great nation? Why don't voters every blame themselves? Are voters living in a state of denial? Think about it.

Fine. Don't defend a $15 minimum wage.

I do NOT defend a $15 an hour wage. Where have I defended a $15 an hour wage?

 

[MsnBama]

I've heard it said that the test of a society is how it treats its most vulnerable people. Seems a lot of people here would find that too human a concept.

Here and within the far right wing of the Republican party. They complain and point fingers until they're blue in the face but refuse to offer any real solutions to problems.

everyone does that...... because no one wants to actually work........

Everyone? No

No one? Again, no.

This is a favorite argument from the right that is complete and utter bullshit. There are plenty of people who bust their rear ends just trying to make ends meet. People DESERVE a living wage, period.

 

[g5000]

If we paid top dollar to our police force, teachers, fireman and paramedics....
What would happen? (serious question....)

We would get better cops, teachers, firemen, and paramedics.

 

[Bonzi]

But sometimes it has to simplified for some people to understand the argument.

View attachment 45796

The president of the United States makes approximately $400,000 a year plus many other perks and benefits. A surgeon averages $250,000 a year saving lives and relieving pain and suffering. The president of the United States causes and allows social and economic pain and suffering. A stripper can make $500.00 a night or more showing her ass and swinging on a pole. A lawyer can make $Millions a year helping the wealthy, the powerful, the influential, and celebrities beat criminal charges. A preacher can make $Millions selling religion. A used car salesman can make $80,000 a year selling junk cars.

So, your point is? If everything fair? Are wages fair across the board? Are some worth more than they're paid? Are some paid way more than they're worth? Is a U.S. Congressperson worth what taxpayers are paying them? Considering the perks and benefits that a member of Congress gets, are they worth it? Are some people in this country over-paid? Are some people in this country under-paid? Is life fair? Is there an absolute value for everything and everyone? Is a meal really worth $80.00 just because it's served in an elite neighborhood, and in a fancy building? Is a cup of coffee at Starbucks really worth $8.00?

Think about it.

The point is, you are not "owed" by anyone. flipping burgers DESERVES less money - I don't care if the industry demands it or not. If the business determines they WANT to pay more to a fast food employee, fine, but the Gov't should not mandate a minimum wage of $15 per hour. That is the Government making decisions for businesses and is a very leftwing/liberal agenda.

LESS GOVERNMENT INVOLVEMENT PLEASE!

Who allowed the government to do it? Who is responsible for the government we have seated in Washington? Who gave government Carte Blanche to do as they damn well please? Why bitch about government and blame them when they're only doing what they've been allowed to do? It's a cop-out to continue to blame government for everything, when the stupid damn voters are the ones that placed the damn anti-America crooks in office. When do you think it'll be, when voters start accepting responsibility for what happens in this once great nation? Why don't voters every blame themselves? Are voters living in a state of denial? Think about it.

Fine. Don't defend a $15 minimum wage.

I do NOT defend a $15 an hour wage. Where have I defended a $15 an hour wage?

I mis-read/mis-understood... guess I got carried away... I thought you were defending it SC!

 

[Stephanie]

Who do you consider vulnerable?

Those in full time work not earning a living wage who must be subsidised by the taxpayer.

NO ONE is forced to climb on the backs of the taxpayers. they can go get a second part time job or something. at least that's how people with any PRIDE used to do it

 

[Sonny Clark]

If we paid top dollar to our police force, teachers, fireman and paramedics....
What would happen? (serious question....)

They already get paid top dollar. Look at the mess in California because of the $100,000 plus retirement benefits. Same with Detroit and it's bankruptcy woes.

 

[Bonzi]

I've heard it said that the test of a society is how it treats its most vulnerable people. Seems a lot of people here would find that too human a concept.

Here and within the far right wing of the Republican party. They complain and point fingers until they're blue in the face but refuse to offer any real solutions to problems.

everyone does that...... because no one wants to actually work........

Everyone? No

No one? Again, no.

This is a favorite argument from the right that is complete and utter bullshit. There are plenty of people who bust their rear ends just trying to make ends meet. People DESERVE a living wage, period.

People deserve to make what they can.
If people are on the streets, it's because they are too lazy to apply for food stamps etc.
Which is why they are on the streets in the first place, because the effort it takes to apply for welfare or food stamps, they could be doing an actual job.

 

[Bonzi]

If we paid top dollar to our police force, teachers, fireman and paramedics....
What would happen? (serious question....)

They already get paid top dollar. Look at the mess in California because of the $100,000 plus retirement benefits. Same with Detroit and it's bankruptcy woes.

so then this begs the questions, if high pay brings high quality, why is it not?
or is that a false deduction?

 

[Sonny Clark]

If we paid top dollar to our police force, teachers, fireman and paramedics....
What would happen? (serious question....)

They already get paid top dollar. Look at the mess in California because of the $100,000 plus retirement benefits. Same with Detroit and it's bankruptcy woes.

so then this begs the questions, if high pay brings high quality, why is it not?
or is that a false deduction?

Pay does NOT equate to quality, professionalism, dedication, expertise, skill, education, or most other commonly held ideals.

 

[Bonzi]

If we paid top dollar to our police force, teachers, fireman and paramedics....
What would happen? (serious question....)

We would get better cops, teachers, firemen, and paramedics.

I would like to think:

(1) Crime would be reduced, and we'd have better protection
(2) Our children would be better educated
(3) More lives would be saved

But maybe these are jobs driven by passion rather than wages?
Maybe it's more of a "societal culture" that truly drives education in particular.
Why are Asian cultures more disciplined and driven? More successful? Is that a racist generalization?
Is it a coincidence that I live in a rural "white" town and over 60% of the Drs. are Indian or Asian?

 

[Bonzi]

If we paid top dollar to our police force, teachers, fireman and paramedics....
What would happen? (serious question....)

They already get paid top dollar. Look at the mess in California because of the $100,000 plus retirement benefits. Same with Detroit and it's bankruptcy woes.

so then this begs the questions, if high pay brings high quality, why is it not?
or is that a false deduction?

Pay does NOT equate to quality, professionalism, dedication, expertise, skill, education, or most other commonly held ideals.

So, Sonny Clark, what does?

 

[g5000]

If we paid top dollar to our police force, teachers, fireman and paramedics....
What would happen? (serious question....)

We would get better cops, teachers, firemen, and paramedics.

I would like to think:

(1) Crime would be reduced, and we'd have better protection
(2) Our children would be better educated
(3) More lives would be saved

But maybe these are jobs driven by passion rather than wages?
Maybe it's more of a "societal culture" that truly drives education in particular.
Why are Asian cultures more disciplined and driven? More successful? Is that a racist generalization?
Is it a coincidence that I live in a rural "white" town and over 60% of the Drs. are Indian or Asian?

It's a cultural generalization, not a racist one.

Some Asian cultures place all of their combined economic power into making one member of the family a doctor and another one a lawyer. Then the family will always have a doctor and a lawyer for virtually free from that point on.

Smart.

 

[Sonny Clark]

If we paid top dollar to our police force, teachers, fireman and paramedics....
What would happen? (serious question....)

They already get paid top dollar. Look at the mess in California because of the $100,000 plus retirement benefits. Same with Detroit and it's bankruptcy woes.

so then this begs the questions, if high pay brings high quality, why is it not?
or is that a false deduction?

Pay does NOT equate to quality, professionalism, dedication, expertise, skill, education, or most other commonly held ideals.

So, Sonny Clark, what does?

Many factors. Sometimes it's being in the right profession. Sometimes it's who you know. Sometimes it's what one can get by with. Sometimes it's union protection. There are many factors that determine pay rate and pay scale.

 

[cnm]

So it's either screw the people making money or screw the business, and let the slackers continue to slack?
I don't think so....

No, you'd rather have society as a feeding frenzy. I've noticed quite a few like that.

 

[Pogo]

If we paid top dollar to our police force, teachers, fireman and paramedics....
What would happen? (serious question....)

We would get better cops, teachers, firemen, and paramedics.

I would like to think:

(1) Crime would be reduced, and we'd have better protection
(2) Our children would be better educated
(3) More lives would be saved

But maybe these are jobs driven by passion rather than wages?

Unfortunately in the case of übermilitarized police, that's in effect true, although it's got nothing to do with their wages. But it has plenty to do with end results.

Maybe it's more of a "societal culture" that truly drives education in particular.
Why are Asian cultures more disciplined and driven? More successful? Is that a racist generalization?
Is it a coincidence that I live in a rural "white" town and over 60% of the Drs. are Indian or Asian?

Those are cultural generalizations.