I Guess I Am An Elitist...

[Czernobog]

I agree this is how we choose our representatives. And you'll notice you didn't include the very things that I said should inform our decisions - experience, ability, and knowledge. We just don't care if our representatives are dumb as a box of rocks (c.f. Michele Fucking Bachmann), just so long as they think the "right thoughts", and behave in the right way. Sorry...I think that's a problem...

I don't agree. I don't see better governance from old DC hands than I do from newcomers. Governor Palin was hands down a better governor than experienced Governor Murkowski or Governor Knowles.

We're sending politicians to DC because of their judgment. Sometimes we send them because of their demonstrated experience. Ability? To do what? Ability in their non-political career? Sure, that could be a signal. Ability to play the corrupt game in DC? I suppose that can appeal to some voters. Knowledge? Knowledge needs to be processed through a black box to come out as a decision. It's the black box that is crucial - how will the politician assess the knowledge? The knowledge can come from staff specialists, we don't need Obama-like experts on everything to be the politician.

Sorry we don't do what you have just suggested. That's the point - we should. We should evaluate a candidate's experience, their abilities in their non-political fields, and their knowledge. I'm not saying that their judgement, and character shouldn't be factors. Only that they shouldn't be the overriding factors, and, unfortunately, the way we vote today, they are.

 

[Czernobog]

If someone had said an experienced farmer was better suited to serve on a farming committee than a lawyer was...is that elitist?

Kinda what I'm screamin...

 

[Rikurzhen]

I agree this is how we choose our representatives. And you'll notice you didn't include the very things that I said should inform our decisions - experience, ability, and knowledge. We just don't care if our representatives are dumb as a box of rocks (c.f. Michele Fucking Bachmann), just so long as they think the "right thoughts", and behave in the right way. Sorry...I think that's a problem...

I don't agree. I don't see better governance from old DC hands than I do from newcomers. Governor Palin was hands down a better governor than experienced Governor Murkowski or Governor Knowles.

We're sending politicians to DC because of their judgment. Sometimes we send them because of their demonstrated experience. Ability? To do what? Ability in their non-political career? Sure, that could be a signal. Ability to play the corrupt game in DC? I suppose that can appeal to some voters. Knowledge? Knowledge needs to be processed through a black box to come out as a decision. It's the black box that is crucial - how will the politician assess the knowledge? The knowledge can come from staff specialists, we don't need Obama-like experts on everything to be the politician.

Sorry we don't do what you have just suggested. That's the point - we should. We should evaluate a candidate's experience, their abilities in their non-political fields, and their knowledge. I'm not saying that their judgement, and character shouldn't be factors. Only that they shouldn't be the overriding factors, and, unfortunately, the way we vote today, they are.

I don't see why you are using the Iowa race as a proof of this position. Brawly doesn't represent the ability or experience or knowledge that Iowa needs. We all have experience in life and in jobs. He has experience in DC looking after the interests of trail lawyers. That counts as zero experience to most Iowans.

 

[Unkotare]

My point still remains that anyone who saw this as a slight against farmers, obviously didn't understand the words coming out of this guy's mouth. I refer to the hypothetical in my OP.

The words that came out of his mouth were wannabe elitist bullshit, and just the sort of thing that were he not in the public eye would have earned him the chance to look at a few of his teeth from a new angle. Spinning and playing the apologist for the guy says quite a lot about you.

 

[Czernobog]

I agree this is how we choose our representatives. And you'll notice you didn't include the very things that I said should inform our decisions - experience, ability, and knowledge. We just don't care if our representatives are dumb as a box of rocks (c.f. Michele Fucking Bachmann), just so long as they think the "right thoughts", and behave in the right way. Sorry...I think that's a problem...

I don't agree. I don't see better governance from old DC hands than I do from newcomers. Governor Palin was hands down a better governor than experienced Governor Murkowski or Governor Knowles.

We're sending politicians to DC because of their judgment. Sometimes we send them because of their demonstrated experience. Ability? To do what? Ability in their non-political career? Sure, that could be a signal. Ability to play the corrupt game in DC? I suppose that can appeal to some voters. Knowledge? Knowledge needs to be processed through a black box to come out as a decision. It's the black box that is crucial - how will the politician assess the knowledge? The knowledge can come from staff specialists, we don't need Obama-like experts on everything to be the politician.

Sorry we don't do what you have just suggested. That's the point - we should. We should evaluate a candidate's experience, their abilities in their non-political fields, and their knowledge. I'm not saying that their judgement, and character shouldn't be factors. Only that they shouldn't be the overriding factors, and, unfortunately, the way we vote today, they are.

I don't see why you are using the Iowa race as a proof of this position. Brawly doesn't represent the ability or experience or knowledge that Iowa needs. We all have experience in life and in jobs. He has experience in DC looking after the interests of trail lawyers. That counts as zero experience to most Iowans.

Okay. And I would have not even noticed this story if that had been the basis on which he was losing. However, based on the comments made about Braley, even from fellow democrats that's not the problem. the problem is that they, incorrectly in my opinion, felt his comment was, somehow, an insult to farmers. Even you have been making the argument that one's experience, and skills are, and should be, less important that how a politician "connects" with the voters. I mean, don't get me wrong; ideology matters, but only so far as the broad strokes go. This is why we decide (D), or (R); because that gives us the general framework of where a particular candidate's ideology is. After that it should be about competence, not likeability.

I think the epitome of this, and one of the stupidest metrics to come out in recent years was, "Would I want to have a beer with him/her?" WHAT?!?! Who gives a single flying fuck if I wanna have a beer with the guy?!?! I don't care if I like the guy! All I are about is does he have the intelligence, skills, and experience to get the fucking job done! I mean for fuck's sake! Could you imagine doing this in the private sector?!? You just spent four years, and put yourself thousands of dollars in debt, in order to become proficient in your field, and then you find out that your getting hired, or not actually comes down to whether or not the hiring manager would want to have a beer with you?!?!?

 

[Czernobog]

My point still remains that anyone who saw this as a slight against farmers, obviously didn't understand the words coming out of this guy's mouth. I refer to the hypothetical in my OP.

The words that came out of his mouth were wannabe elitist bullshit, and just the sort of thing that were he not in the public eye would have earned him the chance to look at a few of his teeth from a new angle. Spinning and playing the apologist for the guy says quite a lot about you.

No they weren't. They were statement of fact. A lawyer is better suited to sit on a committee whose job is to set judicial policy than a farmer. That is just a statement of fact.

 

[Unkotare]

My point still remains that anyone who saw this as a slight against farmers, obviously didn't understand the words coming out of this guy's mouth. I refer to the hypothetical in my OP.

The words that came out of his mouth were wannabe elitist bullshit, and just the sort of thing that were he not in the public eye would have earned him the chance to look at a few of his teeth from a new angle. Spinning and playing the apologist for the guy says quite a lot about you.

No they weren't. .

Yes, they obviously were. Referring to the process of farming as "digging around in the dirt" is a childish attempt at belittling the work. It's childish of you to pretend you didn't notice that. If someone were to refer to the work of an attorney as "playing with his books" it would likewise be an obvious attempt to belittle. Stop bullshitting.

 

[Luddly Neddite]

It's only whacked-out Righties who take exception to this kind of commentary from Bruce Braley. You know, the same kind of whacked out Righties who cannot even spell words correctly on Tea Party placards.

 

[Czernobog]

My point still remains that anyone who saw this as a slight against farmers, obviously didn't understand the words coming out of this guy's mouth. I refer to the hypothetical in my OP.

The words that came out of his mouth were wannabe elitist bullshit, and just the sort of thing that were he not in the public eye would have earned him the chance to look at a few of his teeth from a new angle. Spinning and playing the apologist for the guy says quite a lot about you.

No they weren't. .

Yes, they obviously were. Referring to the process of farming as "digging around in the dirt" is a childish attempt at belittling the work. It's childish of you to pretend you didn't notice that. If someone were to refer to the work of an attorney as "playing with his books" it would likewise be an obvious attempt to belittle. Stop bullshitting.

Okay, I didn't see it that way. so, at worst, I was inadvertently degrading, since those were my words, not his. So, if that is all you have to prove how insulting he was being, then you're pissed at the wrong person.

 

[pepperpot]

It's only whacked-out Righties who take exception to this kind of commentary from Bruce Braley. You know, the same kind of whacked out Righties who cannot even spell words correctly on Tea Party placards.

Uh...I don't know about that...you should see some of the comments coming out of both sides in Iowa over this. And, he is now trailing Ernst, and she is killing him in rural areas. Let's face it most of Iowa is "rural", so if you're losing "rural Iowa", you're losing Iowa.

Its comments like this that have made the south and the Midwest go red. These states are blue collar towns and should be blue but there is too much of a "latte elitist" feeling about lawyers as politicians all the time. There are plenty of democrats in Iowa but this boob just lost them.

 

[pepperpot]

The more I think about that pitch video the stupider it seems. Washington is filled to overflowing with lawyers, expertise of all kinds, so this guys pitches his supporters with the line that they need to send a lawyer to DC, a small town Iowa lawyer. And this pitch is doubly stupid as a wide-release video - why do Iowans care about having this guy on the Judiciary Committee looking after the special interests of trail lawyers? This pitch should be made off-the-record in a smoke filled room.

So we have the Army Colonel who with an MPA and experience castrating pigs who is looking out for Iowans because she understands them and is one of them running against a DC insider who is promising a bunch of lawyers that he'll stand in the way of tort reform and look after their special interests.

Again, bad judgment on display.

Okay...that might be a better argument. My point still remains that anyone who saw this as a slight against farmers, obviously didn't understand the words coming out of this guy's mouth. I refer to the hypothetical in my OP.

To the slight against farmers, we've seen in a number of races the politicians who've given up the pretense of actually living in the state they represent. A lot of voters don't like the idea of their politician being a representative of DC to the state rather than the reverse. That's what Braley is running into. The elitist persona at a time when the elites are shown to be both corrupt and inept - no one looks to DC and thinks it's filled with honest people doing brilliant work - so for him to try to sell his insider status is an affront to people, he's not better than them. Now I have a vague memory of some video of his where he mocked the pig farmer and Iowans months ago and IIRC that didn't go down well, so if my memory is correct (and I'm not sure it is) that event will also set the tone for this response this video is getting.

There's no upside to being elite when the elite are corrupt and inept. The NASA guys from the 60s were the right kind of elite - the engineers and astronauts. They delivered the goods. You see the difference. That kind of elite gives currency to a person's reputation. Braley just looks like a crook on the make in this video.

Thank you. People outside of the big cities don't want these elitists running the show. Its why I am frustrated with the democratic party right now, they keep looking like they want to keep up with the RNC and be full of lawyers and CEOs. Where are the tradesmen or the average Joes in the party anymore? If I wanted to vote for lawyers, lobbyists and rich executives I would just vote republican..

 

[Rikurzhen]

All I are about is does he have the intelligence, skills, and experience to get the fucking job done! I mean for fuck's sake! Could you imagine doing this in the private sector?!?

Can you unpack them bolded for me. What exactly does one need in terms of intelligence, skills and experience to get the job done and what exactly is the job of a politician? How you you measure the intelligence, skills and experience?

I'm asking you this question because you devalue the "have a beer" metric which people use to describe someone that they trust, that they get along with, that has the same values as them, that many people sue to evaluate whether a politician will be able to look after their interests when UNKNOWN future issues arrive. That makes a lot of sense to me. It doesn't to you. Senator Charles Shumer is reported one of the most intelligent men in the Senate. I think he's an idiot. I don't see anything that he's done in which his intelligence would have helped me.

 

[Rikurzhen]

Thank you. People outside of the big cities don't want these elitists running the show. Its why I am frustrated with the democratic party right now, they keep looking like they want to keep up with the RNC and be full of lawyers and CEOs. Where are the tradesmen or the average Joes in the party anymore? If I wanted to vote for lawyers, lobbyists and rich executives I would just vote republican..

You know how Democrats always bring up the party switch from 1964 where racists Democrats of old became the best friend of blacks, well the days of Republicans being filled with bankers is over - the bankers have bought the Democrats. Romney won the majority of the white women's vote, the white youth vote and the white men vote. He won, in essence, the middle class. There simply aren't that many white bankers. What these voters realized is that the Democrats are an alliance of a large bottom base on a class pyramid aligned with the very small top and both are aligned against the middle class. The Republicans don't have much to offer the very poorest, which is why they're so dominated by the middle class.

Any person who is middle class and votes Democrat should have their head examined because they're setting themselves up to be tax-farmed. Look at ObamaCare, everyone in the middle class has to pays thousands of dollars more for health care so black ex-cons in the ghetto can get free healthcare.

 

[Stephanie]

Just because a politician gets elected, doesn't mean they are any more intelligent than the people they are elected TO serve. most of them has never worked a real job so what frikken skills can they have, and how MUCH more do you all want done by this elected asses. Haven't they done enough to us? now they're sitting up in their ivory towers debating some football teams name

get these idiots off our backs PLEASE. We need to CUT this monster that is constantly wanting MORE OF money they don't care how they can scam us out of it..

with this type of thinking it's no wonder they now think they ROYALTY AND our masters