Human Sacrifice

[Petty_Peasant]

Hi everyone, hope everyone is having a wonderful day.

My question today is for those in the Christian faith or denominations there of.

I personally find human sacrifice to be one of the most bizarre practices found in old religious practices. It’s grossly barbaric and I and most people I know tend to associate it with primitive humans with a lack of morals.

That being said I’ve always wondered how Christians are okay the fact that their deity was only able to be satisfied by a human sacrifice. As a person who has never been a believer, it seems primal and archaic. I wonder how people of the Christian faith look at this and think of it as uniquely Devine inspired. Why would this holy being who is greater than anything in the universe only be able to be appeased by blood? And before the human sacrifice, animal sacrifices had to be made constantly. It seems pagan religions with human sacrifices are abhorrent to those who follow the Abrahamic God, yet follow a religion where the key theme is a human sacrifice. Even though Jesus is considered part of god, he still had to be a human and bleed for the sacrifice to work.


To summarize my question, how does one take a god that requires blood to be satifisfied as divine, real, and not the product of the imagination of man? How does it differ from all the other barbarians who worshiped a god that needed sacrifices? If you believe all those sacrifice needing gods are made up, why isn’t this one?


I am not interested in a debate and I am not here to argue. I just truly want to hear some answers from people of this faith, so I don’t intend to reply unless I don’t understand something


Thank you in advance for your thoughts

 

[flacaltenn]

Hi everyone, hope everyone is having a wonderful day.

My question today is for those in the Christian faith or denominations there of.

I personally find human sacrifice to be one of the most bizarre practices found in old religious practices. It’s grossly barbaric and I and most people I know tend to associate it with primitive humans with a lack of morals.

That being said I’ve always wondered how Christians are okay the fact that their deity was only able to be satisfied by a human sacrifice. As a person who has never been a believer, it seems primal and archaic. I wonder how people of the Christian faith look at this and think of it as uniquely Devine inspired. Why would this holy being who is greater than anything in the universe only be able to be appeased by blood? And before the human sacrifice, animal sacrifices had to be made constantly. It seems pagan religions with human sacrifices are abhorrent to those who follow the Abrahamic God, yet follow a religion where the key theme is a human sacrifice. Even though Jesus is considered part of god, he still had to be a human and bleed for the sacrifice to work.


To summarize my question, how does one take a god that requires blood to be satifisfied as divine, real, and not the product of the imagination of man? How does it differ from all the other barbarians who worshiped a god that needed sacrifices? If you believe all those sacrifice needing gods are made up, why isn’t this one?


I am not interested in a debate and I am not here to argue. I just truly want to hear some answers from people of this faith, so I don’t intend to reply unless I don’t understand something


Thank you in advance for your thoughts

Where are finding that human sacrifice was EVER demanded by a Jewish or Christian God?

Think you're worked up about some bad E-coli infested misinformation that you've been snacking on..

Ever read the story of Abraham, where God asks him to sacrifice his SON??? Bet a whole day's pay you haven't... Don't want to ruin it for you -- go READ IT and get back here...

 

[flacaltenn]

If you're referring to the crucifixion of Jesus -- was that "a human sacrifice"?? Is Jesus dead? How can he return if he's dead? Missed the part about the resurrection didya? Where did you get this fake misinformation from?

 

[flacaltenn]

Here's the cartoon version of an explanation for the sacrifice of Jesus... Discuss your issue with this...

Chapter 9: Abraham and the Sacrifice of Isaac

 

[Petty_Peasant]

I’m sorry, I was referring to Jesus. He was sent to die for our sins. I believed that to be the saving point for Christians. It wasn’t until Jesus gave his life that Christianity was born.

 

[Crepitus]

You guys sacrifice him in effigy every single Sunday.

Cannibalism too.

 

[norwegen]

I’m sorry, I was referring to Jesus. He was sent to die for our sins. I believed that to be the saving point for Christians. It wasn’t until Jesus gave his life that Christianity was born.

Sadly, this is where Christians cut off the gospel. Jesus didn't just die for redemption; he died for the church:

Pay careful attention to yourselves and to all the flock, in which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers, to care for the church of God, which he obtained with his own blood. (Acts 20:28)

Husbands, love your wives, as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her. (Eph 5:25)​

He may have died for sins, but that was not why he was sent. He was sent to inaugurate God's kingdom on the earth:

I must preach the good news of the kingdom of God to the other towns as well; for I was sent for this purpose. (Lk 4:43)​

His sacrifice was for the church, which comprehends all the peripheral reasons he may have died, such as forgiveness of sins.

God isn't satisfied merely by a human sacrifice; He's satisfied that He is once again alive and well on the earth. That was the work of Christ.

 

[flacaltenn]

I’m sorry, I was referring to Jesus. He was sent to die for our sins. I believed that to be the saving point for Christians. It wasn’t until Jesus gave his life that Christianity was born.

Did you read the Church of Latter Day Saints site that EXPLAINS "this sacrifice" ??? It is not a command to practice human sacrifice.. It was "HIS son" that was sacrificed. God stopped short of commanding the ONLY known HUMAN sacrifice in the entire Old or New Testament.. It was more of a "loyalty test" for BOTH Abraham AND his son..

It's NOT a feature. And once you take human form as an agent of God in the bible, any "murders" or assassinations are just that..

 

[Petty_Peasant]

It is not a command to practice human sacrifice.. It was "HIS son" that was sacrificed. God stopped short of commanding the ONLY known HUMAN sacrifice in the entire Old or New Testament.. It was more of a "loyalty test" for BOTH Abraham AND his son..

Thank you for your response. To clarify, the difference to you is that god committed the sacrifice and no humans? I still don’t understand a blood sacrifice was needed. Before Jesus they had to sacrifice animals. Why? Why could he not lift the curse that he himself placed on man? I once attended a church service and they took communion. They said the cracker represented the body and the juice the blood and you were supposed to eat it. I was really freaked out by that practice. It seemed like a cult.

Also, I do believe there was another sacrifice, the daughter of Jephthah the Gileadite.

 

[flacaltenn]

It is not a command to practice human sacrifice.. It was "HIS son" that was sacrificed. God stopped short of commanding the ONLY known HUMAN sacrifice in the entire Old or New Testament.. It was more of a "loyalty test" for BOTH Abraham AND his son..

Thank you for your response. To clarify, the difference to you is that god committed the sacrifice and no humans? I still don’t understand a blood sacrifice was needed. Before Jesus they had to sacrifice animals. Why? Why could he not lift the curse that he himself placed on man? I once attended a church service and they took communion. They said the cracker represented the body and the juice the blood and you were supposed to eat it. I was really freaked out by that practice. It seemed like a cult.

Also, I do believe there was another sacrifice, the daughter of Jephthah the Gileadite.

Well I guess you got traumatized for life by holy crackers and wine then..

When you're barely existing doing subsistence herding and have no 401K or bank account in a desert, the animal sacrifice thing was a way of showing appreciation for owning or producing ANYTHING from that meager existence.. As soon as folks settled down, became less nomadic and developed COOPERATIVE commerce, any need for it went away...

In fact, the Kosher laws in Judaism ( and maintained also by Moslems) are primarily an "anti-animal cruelty" code that God handed down WHILE the animal sacrificing was still "a thing"...

 

[Petty_Peasant]

It is not a command to practice human sacrifice.. It was "HIS son" that was sacrificed. God stopped short of commanding the ONLY known HUMAN sacrifice in the entire Old or New Testament.. It was more of a "loyalty test" for BOTH Abraham AND his son..

Thank you for your response. To clarify, the difference to you is that god committed the sacrifice and no humans? I still don’t understand a blood sacrifice was needed. Before Jesus they had to sacrifice animals. Why? Why could he not lift the curse that he himself placed on man? I once attended a church service and they took communion. They said the cracker represented the body and the juice the blood and you were supposed to eat it. I was really freaked out by that practice. It seemed like a cult.

Also, I do believe there was another sacrifice, the daughter of Jephthah the Gileadite.

Well I guess you got traumatized for life by holy crackers and wine then..

When you're barely existing doing subsistence herding and have no 401K or bank account in a desert, the animal sacrifice thing was a way of showing appreciation for owning or producing ANYTHING from that meager existence.. As soon as folks settled down, became less nomadic and developed COOPERATIVE commerce, any need for it went away...

In fact, the Kosher laws in Judaism ( and maintained also by Moslems) are primarily an "anti-animal cruelty" code that God handed down WHILE the animal sacrificing was still "a thing"...

Haha! I sort of was. I was really confused and felt extremely out of place. It got me really interested in the religion though. I had never realized these practices were so normal. I had started studying religions after that and I was especially intrigued by the Christian religions since it is so prevalent in this country.

Do you mean to say that the sacrifices were not actually required? Leviticus seems to set up a whole list of rules regarding “sin offering”. My research is slim, so please point me to other passages if I am incorrect.

The verses I had seen were in Leviticus 4 and 5. Here are the specific verses I am referring to with my bolding for emphasis

“
27 “‘If any member of the community sins unintentionally and does what is forbidden in any of the Lord’s commands, when they realize their guilt 28 and the sin they have committed becomes known, they must bring as their offering for the sin they committed a female goat without defect. 29 They are to lay their hand on the head of the sin offering and slaughter it at the place of the burnt offering.30 Then the priest is to take some of the blood with his finger and put it on the horns of the altar of burnt offering and pour out the rest of the blood at the base of the altar. 31 They shall remove all the fat, just as the fat is removed from the fellowship offering, and the priest shall burn it on the altar as an aroma pleasing to the Lord. In this way the priest will make atonement for them, and they will be forgiven.



I can understand your point on sacrifices being made to show gratitude to the god. But why the bloody show?

 

[Dogmaphobe]

I'm all in favor of human sacrifice.

I even have my list of USMB volunteers ready just to prove my dedication to the process.

 

[flacaltenn]

Do you mean to say that the sacrifices were not actually required? Leviticus seems to set up a whole list of rules regarding “sin offering”. My research is slim, so please point me to other passages if I am incorrect.

A lot of "commandments" were just reflective of the culture of the time.. THAT list is long.. So they were symbolic ways that were common at the time.. You're looking at the state of mankind 4000 yrs ago.. The fact that LASTING MORAL TRUTHS emerged from all that hardship and strife is itself "a miracle"...

Any religion has some uncomfortable icons and baggage.. But on the whole, religion is about HUMILITY and the acknowledgement that man is not perfect.. You can be spiritual without being ritualistic.. Chastizing humble people that KNOW they are imperfect and STRIVE to be better is pretty silly....

The ones you should WORRY about are the ARROGANT ones that believe MAN is the sole giver and grantor of morals and the law... That ARROGANCE begets Authoritarianism and destroys freedoms and leads to conflict over policy, law and politics..

 

[flacaltenn]

I'm all in favor of human sacrifice.

I even have my list of USMB volunteers ready just to prove my dedication to the process.

As long as they are VOLUNTEERS, I don't see any problems with the laws of USMB being in your way...

 

[Petty_Peasant]

Do you mean to say that the sacrifices were not actually required? Leviticus seems to set up a whole list of rules regarding “sin offering”. My research is slim, so please point me to other passages if I am incorrect.

A lot of "commandments" were just reflective of the culture of the time.. THAT list is long.. So they were symbolic ways that were common at the time.. You're looking at the state of mankind 4000 yrs ago.. The fact that LASTING MORAL TRUTHS emerged from all that hardship and strife is itself "a miracle"...

Any religion has some uncomfortable icons and baggage.. But on the whole, religion is about HUMILITY and the acknowledgement that man is not perfect.. You can be spiritual without being ritualistic.. Chastizing humble people that KNOW they are imperfect and STRIVE to be better is pretty silly....

The ones you should WORRY about are the ARROGANT ones that believe MAN is the sole giver and grantor of morals and the law... That ARROGANCE begets Authoritarianism and destroys freedoms and leads to conflict over policy, law and politics..

But the actual question is regarding the live sacrifice of Jesus. It is my understanding that without his death, we would not be forgiven and be required to give those sacrifices. Why in the end was this type of sacrifice needed for a great god?

I agree with you that it sounds very much like culturally for the times. That is why I cannot understand why it is still followed as a truth today.

 

[Picaro]

Do you mean to say that the sacrifices were not actually required? Leviticus seems to set up a whole list of rules regarding “sin offering”. My research is slim, so please point me to other passages if I am incorrect.

A lot of "commandments" were just reflective of the culture of the time.. THAT list is long.. So they were symbolic ways that were common at the time.. You're looking at the state of mankind 4000 yrs ago.. The fact that LASTING MORAL TRUTHS emerged from all that hardship and strife is itself "a miracle"...

Any religion has some uncomfortable icons and baggage.. But on the whole, religion is about HUMILITY and the acknowledgement that man is not perfect.. You can be spiritual without being ritualistic.. Chastizing humble people that KNOW they are imperfect and STRIVE to be better is pretty silly....

The ones you should WORRY about are the ARROGANT ones that believe MAN is the sole giver and grantor of morals and the law... That ARROGANCE begets Authoritarianism and destroys freedoms and leads to conflict over policy, law and politics..

A lot of the NT is about railing against those who worship the law over the intent and spiritual focus; the Pharisees were especially hidebound over petty legalities.

 

[Picaro]

Do you mean to say that the sacrifices were not actually required? Leviticus seems to set up a whole list of rules regarding “sin offering”. My research is slim, so please point me to other passages if I am incorrect.

A lot of "commandments" were just reflective of the culture of the time.. THAT list is long.. So they were symbolic ways that were common at the time.. You're looking at the state of mankind 4000 yrs ago.. The fact that LASTING MORAL TRUTHS emerged from all that hardship and strife is itself "a miracle"...

Any religion has some uncomfortable icons and baggage.. But on the whole, religion is about HUMILITY and the acknowledgement that man is not perfect.. You can be spiritual without being ritualistic.. Chastizing humble people that KNOW they are imperfect and STRIVE to be better is pretty silly....

The ones you should WORRY about are the ARROGANT ones that believe MAN is the sole giver and grantor of morals and the law... That ARROGANCE begets Authoritarianism and destroys freedoms and leads to conflict over policy, law and politics..

But the actual question is regarding the live sacrifice of Jesus. It is my understanding that without his death, we would not be forgiven and be required to give those sacrifices. Why in the end was this type of sacrifice needed for a great god?

I agree with you that it sounds very much like culturally for the times. That is why I cannot understand why it is still followed as a truth today.

There are multiple meanings, as well different times and situations calling for different measures; it's not so hard when you read the entire 'books' as opposed to running around trying to use isolated verses without any contexts, as if it was all just a list of disconnected sentences with numbers by them. Calling them 'human sacrifices' is just playing dishonest semantics.

 

[flacaltenn]

Do you mean to say that the sacrifices were not actually required? Leviticus seems to set up a whole list of rules regarding “sin offering”. My research is slim, so please point me to other passages if I am incorrect.

A lot of "commandments" were just reflective of the culture of the time.. THAT list is long.. So they were symbolic ways that were common at the time.. You're looking at the state of mankind 4000 yrs ago.. The fact that LASTING MORAL TRUTHS emerged from all that hardship and strife is itself "a miracle"...

Any religion has some uncomfortable icons and baggage.. But on the whole, religion is about HUMILITY and the acknowledgement that man is not perfect.. You can be spiritual without being ritualistic.. Chastizing humble people that KNOW they are imperfect and STRIVE to be better is pretty silly....

The ones you should WORRY about are the ARROGANT ones that believe MAN is the sole giver and grantor of morals and the law... That ARROGANCE begets Authoritarianism and destroys freedoms and leads to conflict over policy, law and politics..

But the actual question is regarding the live sacrifice of Jesus. It is my understanding that without his death, we would not be forgiven and be required to give those sacrifices. Why in the end was this type of sacrifice needed for a great god?

I agree with you that it sounds very much like culturally for the times. That is why I cannot understand why it is still followed as a truth today.

Ask someone more versed in the NT.. I personally don't think the cruxification and resurrection had ANYTHING to do animal sacrifices... And that if Jesus simply died from old age, that anything would have changed at all about animal sacrifices at the Temple.. Those sacrifices were NOT solely for "sins"... THey were showing gratefulness and obedience to the God of the Jews..

The Jews at the time had their own "bloodless:" repentance for sins that still exists today called Yom Kippur..

The REJECTION of Jesus as the Son of God by the authorities in Rome and Jerusalem is why he was killed, And my understanding is that God USED that event as a sign to "anyone who worships His Name:" would be freed of their sins as a result... NOTHING about reverting to animal sacrifices..

I was raised Jewish so I'm gonna butt out of here and let some Christians help you out !!!

Glad we cleared up the Jews or early Christians performing "human sacrifices" fake news... LOL...

 

[there4eyeM]

What is truly barbaric is sacrificing our children for oil today.

 

[Lysistrata]

I’m sorry, I was referring to Jesus. He was sent to die for our sins. I believed that to be the saving point for Christians. It wasn’t until Jesus gave his life that Christianity was born.

You have raised a very interesting point as to the importance of human and animal sacrifice in the Christian religion.

I would just like to add, as a person raised in the Christian faith, the whole narrative is based on the idea that there is a triune godhead, but one of the aspects, the "father," had to send the "son" aspect of the godhead, down to earth to be tortured and sacrificed to the "father" aspect in order to "redeem" humankind. God "the father" has to receive the sacrifice of God "the son" in order to forgive. This means that God has to receive the sacrifice of God. Self has to receive the sacrifice of Self. But the Godhead is all-powerful and totally capable of forgiving at any time, no bloody mess required. This does not make any sense. Too muddled. And nobody knows what the Holy Spirit aspect was doing during all of this.