Human Sacrifice

[there4eyeM]

All talk of 'God' can only be taken seriously as metaphor. Even the most elementary understanding of the concept of a 'being' like 'God' would lead one to understand that no description is possible, and much less than appropriate. 'God' could not be limited and all speech limits, defines, contains.
That is the reason that, to the extent they impose definitions, all religions are blasphemy.
Take what you've heard about how the universe works and contemplate what it might mean, what it could indicate, not what it insists on meaning. Approach the idea of a source for what exists with humility and openness and you may receive something of value.
Merely receiving what one has read or heard is just accepting hearsay evidence. One may use it as a direction finder, but it cannot be the destination.

 

[Picaro]

What is truly barbaric is sacrificing our children for oil today.

Not even remotely comparable to the 10's of millions sacrificed to the pagan cults of the Left for the horrible crime of Inconvenience after engaging in mindless self-indulgence. And, now the Left wants to kill them after birth as well.

After-birth abortion: why should the baby live?

So, since so many of the deviants and sociopaths are so dedicated to trying to invent some 'moral equivalency' or other between Judeo-Christian theology and mindless paganism and Islamic butchery, how does some 3,000 deaths from 350 years or so of the Spanish and Portuguese Inquisitions, and another 6,000 or so 'witch burnings', oh ... wait ,, burning witches is a pagan cult activity, never mind ..., compare to some 60 to 70 million killings committed by the abortion cultists?

 

[there4eyeM]

The children sacrificed for oil are actual people present, alive and active. There is no debate about their status.
Abortion is another issue and has nothing to do with this question.

 

[22lcidw]

Hi everyone, hope everyone is having a wonderful day.

My question today is for those in the Christian faith or denominations there of.

I personally find human sacrifice to be one of the most bizarre practices found in old religious practices. It’s grossly barbaric and I and most people I know tend to associate it with primitive humans with a lack of morals.

That being said I’ve always wondered how Christians are okay the fact that their deity was only able to be satisfied by a human sacrifice. As a person who has never been a believer, it seems primal and archaic. I wonder how people of the Christian faith look at this and think of it as uniquely Devine inspired. Why would this holy being who is greater than anything in the universe only be able to be appeased by blood? And before the human sacrifice, animal sacrifices had to be made constantly. It seems pagan religions with human sacrifices are abhorrent to those who follow the Abrahamic God, yet follow a religion where the key theme is a human sacrifice. Even though Jesus is considered part of god, he still had to be a human and bleed for the sacrifice to work.


To summarize my question, how does one take a god that requires blood to be satifisfied as divine, real, and not the product of the imagination of man? How does it differ from all the other barbarians who worshiped a god that needed sacrifices? If you believe all those sacrifice needing gods are made up, why isn’t this one?


I am not interested in a debate and I am not here to argue. I just truly want to hear some answers from people of this faith, so I don’t intend to reply unless I don’t understand something


Thank you in advance for your thoughts

If you were ever educated by a nun you would not have made a statement like that. Humans can be brutal to each other. To live like we are supposed to is not easy in a world of free will. In that respect we have gotten far away from that in the West. And more and more taxes are needed to keep things moving along.

 

[RodISHI]

If you're referring to the crucifixion of Jesus -- was that "a human sacrifice"?? Is Jesus dead? How can he return if he's dead? Missed the part about the resurrection didya? Where did you get this fake misinformation from?

That reminds me of a new Christian once asking me, "Do you believe Jesus is dead?" I told him, "No Jesus isn't dead." The guy yelled out to his son who was over talking to Rod, "*****, she's a jew!" I was kind shaking my head wondering how people get so hung up on their own crap in this world at that point but remained in the conversation with him and asked calmly, "How did you get to that conclusion?" He then said, "Well you don't believe Jesus died on the cross for your sins". So I asked him, "How'd you get to that conclusion?" He was a bit frustrated at that point at me and started to tell me what I just said when responding "no" to his question about Jesus being dead. I asked him, "How is it that Jesus is dead if he was raised from the dead and walked among his disciples? You asked me did I know Jesus was dead and I said no, Jesus isn't dead". The poor guy at that point was all apologies. I just told him "No problem, You have new believer zeal." He then asked "How long have you been a believer?" I can't ever recall not being one.

The really cool thing after that was meeting Chana the Jewess online. Christians in the chat group I belonged to wasn't friendly at all with her at first and of course she lashed back at them; yet she still stuck around in the chat because she was hungry to learn about Christians. Later she shared with me why. Her new daughter in law was a Christian. The group eventually got to know her and they adored her and she shared with them all about Jewish traditions as much as possible. She went and bought a bible exactly like mine and we chatted back and forth until ultimately she got herself a local pastor to help her study the bible. The group gave up some of their wild animals and she gave up a lamb.

 

[Picaro]

The children sacrificed for oil are actual people present, alive and active. There is no debate about their status.
Abortion is another issue and has nothing to do with this question.

You're just babbling now, trying to establish yourself as some sort of superior moral authority, and failing; that's normal for sociopaths who don't really have any moral sensibility and can't fake it well. You can't pretend your silly conflations of 'human sacrifice' isn't the same I used for your abortion fetish and your craving for lots of dead babies.

 

[there4eyeM]

The children sacrificed for oil are actual people present, alive and active. There is no debate about their status.
Abortion is another issue and has nothing to do with this question.

You're just babbling now, trying to establish yourself as some sort of superior moral authority, and failing; that's normal for sociopaths who don't really have any moral sensibility and can't fake it well. You can't pretend your silly conflations of 'human sacrifice' isn't the same I used for your abortion fetish and your craving for lots of dead babies.

?!

 

[Votto]

Hi everyone, hope everyone is having a wonderful day.

My question today is for those in the Christian faith or denominations there of.

I personally find human sacrifice to be one of the most bizarre practices found in old religious practices. It’s grossly barbaric and I and most people I know tend to associate it with primitive humans with a lack of morals.

That being said I’ve always wondered how Christians are okay the fact that their deity was only able to be satisfied by a human sacrifice. As a person who has never been a believer, it seems primal and archaic. I wonder how people of the Christian faith look at this and think of it as uniquely Devine inspired. Why would this holy being who is greater than anything in the universe only be able to be appeased by blood? And before the human sacrifice, animal sacrifices had to be made constantly. It seems pagan religions with human sacrifices are abhorrent to those who follow the Abrahamic God, yet follow a religion where the key theme is a human sacrifice. Even though Jesus is considered part of god, he still had to be a human and bleed for the sacrifice to work.


To summarize my question, how does one take a god that requires blood to be satifisfied as divine, real, and not the product of the imagination of man? How does it differ from all the other barbarians who worshiped a god that needed sacrifices? If you believe all those sacrifice needing gods are made up, why isn’t this one?


I am not interested in a debate and I am not here to argue. I just truly want to hear some answers from people of this faith, so I don’t intend to reply unless I don’t understand something


Thank you in advance for your thoughts

The God of the Bible spent all his time trying to do away with human sacrifice. The story of Abraham being asked to sacrifice his son was the example of this because this was at a time in history where human sacrifice to the gods was common practice, so it was not strange to Abraham to be asked by God to do this. So the story seems strange that if God abhorred human sacrifice, he would ask Abraham to do just that. However, the message was sent when God stopped Abraham from killing his son, which sent the message to the ancient world that the one and true God was different than the rest of the gods at that time.

And thank God that all religions today are centered from the God of Abraham vs. the pagan gods like we have studied all around the world that murdered their own children to those gods.

So why did people sacrifice their children to the gods? It was for personal material gain. It was either for victory at war, better crops, fertility, etc. And we see this continued today via abortion. People continue to sacrifice their children to the gods of materialism because most women have an abortion based upon financial concerns.

As for God coming down in the flesh and sacrificing himself, that is his business and as Jesus said, there is no greater love than to lay down ones life for those he loves. This sort of sacrifice is a beautiful thing verses one done out of pure greed. For example, if someone jumps on a grenade to save those around him, he is praised as a hero who loved those around him verses taking your child and throwing him in a volcano in the hopes that their corn will taste better next year.

 

[norwegen]

Do you mean to say that the sacrifices were not actually required? Leviticus seems to set up a whole list of rules regarding “sin offering”. My research is slim, so please point me to other passages if I am incorrect.

A lot of "commandments" were just reflective of the culture of the time.. THAT list is long.. So they were symbolic ways that were common at the time.. You're looking at the state of mankind 4000 yrs ago.. The fact that LASTING MORAL TRUTHS emerged from all that hardship and strife is itself "a miracle"...

Any religion has some uncomfortable icons and baggage.. But on the whole, religion is about HUMILITY and the acknowledgement that man is not perfect.. You can be spiritual without being ritualistic.. Chastizing humble people that KNOW they are imperfect and STRIVE to be better is pretty silly....

The ones you should WORRY about are the ARROGANT ones that believe MAN is the sole giver and grantor of morals and the law... That ARROGANCE begets Authoritarianism and destroys freedoms and leads to conflict over policy, law and politics..

But the actual question is regarding the live sacrifice of Jesus. It is my understanding that without his death, we would not be forgiven and be required to give those sacrifices. Why in the end was this type of sacrifice needed for a great god?

I agree with you that it sounds very much like culturally for the times. That is why I cannot understand why it is still followed as a truth today.

Ask someone more versed in the NT.. I personally don't think the cruxification and resurrection had ANYTHING to do animal sacrifices... And that if Jesus simply died from old age, that anything would have changed at all about animal sacrifices at the Temple.. Those sacrifices were NOT solely for "sins"... THey were showing gratefulness and obedience to the God of the Jews..

The Jews at the time had their own "bloodless:" repentance for sins that still exists today called Yom Kippur..

The REJECTION of Jesus as the Son of God by the authorities in Rome and Jerusalem is why he was killed, And my understanding is that God USED that event as a sign to "anyone who worships His Name:" would be freed of their sins as a result... NOTHING about reverting to animal sacrifices..

I was raised Jewish so I'm gonna butt out of here and let some Christians help you out !!!

Glad we cleared up the Jews or early Christians performing "human sacrifices" fake news... LOL...

It’s a perplexing question, even for Christians like me. A good place to start might be to think of the veil to the holy place as a type and shadow of Christ’s flesh. Both were ripped apart to reveal the presence of God.

Christians regard the Jewish temple system as a type and shadow of the Christian temple system. The Jewish temple was made with hands out of stones while the Christian temple is made not with hands and out of living stones. Whereas the Most Holy Place in the old temple was 20 cubits cubed, the Most Holy Place in the new temple is 12,000 stadia cubed (Rv 21:16), or nearly the size of the moon. That is, it covers the earth (as they perceived it at the time). God no longer dwells in a small stone cubicle with a select few priests; He dwells on earth with all who believe.

Likewise, the law under the old system was a sketch of the real law. Jesus did not fulfill 600 or so edicts committed to animal skins; these laws were barely even enforceable, by and large, let alone fulfillable. Jesus fulfilled not Torah – not the law of sin and death – but rather the law of God. That is, to love God and to love others, for the whole law and prophets hang on these two commandments (Mt 7:12; 22:37-40; Gal 5:14). The Law is not rescinded, per se; it takes on a new holy expression of completeness in the Messiah, a higher standard of virtue arrived at not by mandate but at the pleasure of those who would uphold the Father’s commandments.

Yes, Jesus was a sacrifice, according to scripture, not just human but also divine, as he suffered the curse of Adam (Mt 27:46). It was like a last act of sacrifice taken to a whole new level. Not only did he elevate obedience to Torah above and beyond issues of murder, lust, etc. (Matthew Chapter 5), but he was also the sacrifice above and beyond animal sacrifices before that whole temple system would collapse in the first Jewish War.

 

[Gracie]

I am not interested in a debate and I am not here to argue. I just truly want to hear some answers from people of this faith, so I don’t intend to reply unless I don’t understand something

All Christians are not cookie cutter believers. Each walks his/her own path. So asking someone to speak for ALL christians is not feasible and will not garner you any answers. It all depends on which or what statement/explanation tickles your own ears.

 

[Petty_Peasant]

I am not interested in a debate and I am not here to argue. I just truly want to hear some answers from people of this faith, so I don’t intend to reply unless I don’t understand something

All Christians are not cookie cutter believers. Each walks his/her own path. So asking someone to speak for ALL christians is not feasible and will not garner you any answers. It all depends on which or what statement/explanation tickles your own ears.

I never said that. That is why I specified that I wanted to hear multiple answers from multiple people. Everyone has different background and training and experiences. Thus why I asked a whole forum full of people.

 

[Petty_Peasant]

The children sacrificed for oil are actual people present, alive and active. There is no debate about their status.
Abortion is another issue and has nothing to do with this question.

You're just babbling now, trying to establish yourself as some sort of superior moral authority, and failing; that's normal for sociopaths who don't really have any moral sensibility and can't fake it well. You can't pretend your silly conflations of 'human sacrifice' isn't the same I used for your abortion fetish and your craving for lots of dead babies.

I don’t even understand how you were able to jump to this from this conversation. It’s amazing how people can twist a subject to be about what they want. I believe the term in the rules here is “thread hijacking”

Please stay on subject or leave. There are plenty of abortion threads you can go crazy in. This has nothing to do with that.

 

[Votto]

The children sacrificed for oil are actual people present, alive and active. There is no debate about their status.
Abortion is another issue and has nothing to do with this question.

You're just babbling now, trying to establish yourself as some sort of superior moral authority, and failing; that's normal for sociopaths who don't really have any moral sensibility and can't fake it well. You can't pretend your silly conflations of 'human sacrifice' isn't the same I used for your abortion fetish and your craving for lots of dead babies.

I don’t even understand how you were able to jump to this from this conversation. It’s amazing how people can twist a subject to be about what they want. I believe the term in the rules here is “thread hijacking”

Please stay on subject or leave. There are plenty of abortion threads you can go crazy in. This has nothing to do with that.

But abortion is akin to human sacrifice for the reasons I listed.

You apparently only want to talk about human sacrifice when mentioning the name of God.

My bad.

 

[Petty_Peasant]

The children sacrificed for oil are actual people present, alive and active. There is no debate about their status.
Abortion is another issue and has nothing to do with this question.

You're just babbling now, trying to establish yourself as some sort of superior moral authority, and failing; that's normal for sociopaths who don't really have any moral sensibility and can't fake it well. You can't pretend your silly conflations of 'human sacrifice' isn't the same I used for your abortion fetish and your craving for lots of dead babies.

I don’t even understand how you were able to jump to this from this conversation. It’s amazing how people can twist a subject to be about what they want. I believe the term in the rules here is “thread hijacking”

Please stay on subject or leave. There are plenty of abortion threads you can go crazy in. This has nothing to do with that.

But abortion is akin to human sacrifice for the reasons I listed.

You apparently only want to talk about human sacrifice when mentioning the name of God.

My bad.

The fact that you can’t understand the difference between religious sacrifice and splashing blood on the alter in order for a deity to forgive you and a medical procedure is beyond me. I can’t compare the two because they don’t even meet on the same playing field

When has anyone ever said “I need to have an abortion so that god will forgive mankind of sin”?


The two are drastically not related
Moving on

 

[Votto]

The children sacrificed for oil are actual people present, alive and active. There is no debate about their status.
Abortion is another issue and has nothing to do with this question.

You're just babbling now, trying to establish yourself as some sort of superior moral authority, and failing; that's normal for sociopaths who don't really have any moral sensibility and can't fake it well. You can't pretend your silly conflations of 'human sacrifice' isn't the same I used for your abortion fetish and your craving for lots of dead babies.

I don’t even understand how you were able to jump to this from this conversation. It’s amazing how people can twist a subject to be about what they want. I believe the term in the rules here is “thread hijacking”

Please stay on subject or leave. There are plenty of abortion threads you can go crazy in. This has nothing to do with that.

But abortion is akin to human sacrifice for the reasons I listed.

You apparently only want to talk about human sacrifice when mentioning the name of God.

My bad.

The fact that you can’t understand the difference between religious sacrifice and splashing blood on the alter in order for a deity to forgive you and a medical procedure is beyond me. I can’t compare the two because they don’t even meet on the same playing field

When has anyone ever said “I need to have an abortion so that god will forgive mankind of sin”?


The two are drastically not related
Moving on

But the Bible never uses human blood to forgive sins EXCEPT from God in the flesh himself.

As for animal sacrifice, it is said that the life is in the blood, and sin brings death. Therefore, it was a good learning tool for man to help him understand this through animal sacrifice, as well as making man understand that humans were not animals. In short, sin brings death and destruction and animal sacrifice drive home this point. Also, there is a difference between humanity and the animal kingdom, a difference that often gets blurred for those devoid of faith in a God who made mankind in his own image, and therefore of higher value.

For those who don't believe in a God, you are left with the notion that mankind is nothing more than a glorified animals. There are then two trains of thought with this type of thinking. You can either believe that all animals should have the rights humans do or you believe that humans should be treated like animals.

Which do you fall under? I suppose you could believe that humans are superior cuz you really like yourself and, therefore, are so much better.

 

[Gdjjr]

I've read that American Indians thanked the animal they killed for feeding them and ate the liver and heart raw believing it made them more animal like in strength- what I can't figure is why the omnipresent never made it to the west to inform Indians they were wrong in their beliefs but instead relied on a bunch of arrogant idiots calling themselves special (Manifest Destiny) to savagely destroy those who didn't believe they way they did and had the audacity to call Indians savages. I wonder how many of the arrogant idiots ever thanked a cow or pig or bear they butchered for feeding them?

 

[ReinyDays]

I have another angle on this animal sacrifice business ... the Levites weren't allowed to keep fields and flocks ... their only means of subsistence was eating the animals and foodstuffs brought to the Temple for sacrifice ... in today's monied societies we generally see pie plates passed around church during services to provide for the minister and physical upkeep of the sanctuary ...

Send this "human sacrifice" right out the door ... Jesus was tried by the Romans and sentence to death by crucifixion ... a common event in those times ... it's said all the roads into Jerusalem were lined with dead bodies nailed to crosses and a warning to anyone who would dare set themselves above Caesar ... like Jesus did ...

 

[Picaro]

The children sacrificed for oil are actual people present, alive and active. There is no debate about their status.
Abortion is another issue and has nothing to do with this question.

You're just babbling now, trying to establish yourself as some sort of superior moral authority, and failing; that's normal for sociopaths who don't really have any moral sensibility and can't fake it well. You can't pretend your silly conflations of 'human sacrifice' isn't the same I used for your abortion fetish and your craving for lots of dead babies.

I don’t even understand how you were able to jump to this from this conversation. It’s amazing how people can twist a subject to be about what they want. I believe the term in the rules here is “thread hijacking”

Please stay on subject or leave. There are plenty of abortion threads you can go crazy in. This has nothing to do with that.

How about kissing my ass? Don't whine to me about your stupid faulty reasoning and idiotic definitions, you own them , not me, and yes, the abortion cultists are nothing but that, cultists, complete with mantras to chant and people they need to persecute and harass, hence your dumb thread premise.

 

[Picaro]

I have another angle on this animal sacrifice business ... the Levites weren't allowed to keep fields and flocks ... their only means of subsistence was eating the animals and foodstuffs brought to the Temple for sacrifice ... in today's monied societies we generally see pie plates passed around church during services to provide for the minister and physical upkeep of the sanctuary ...

Send this "human sacrifice" right out the door ... Jesus was tried by the Romans and sentence to death by crucifixion ... a common event in those times ... it's said all the roads into Jerusalem were lined with dead bodies nailed to crosses and a warning to anyone who would dare set themselves above Caesar ... like Jesus did ...

True, they weren't allowed to own real estate, farms and the like, and sold the meat; they could also teach, though, and I doubt they were living in poverty or anything. Not all priests and leaders were Levities; the upper class Saduccees inherited their Temple positions and the like, and were quite wealthy. It was a very status-focused culture then, with strict racial purity laws that determined what jobs and political positions one could hold.

 

[Gracie]

I am not interested in a debate and I am not here to argue. I just truly want to hear some answers from people of this faith, so I don’t intend to reply unless I don’t understand something

All Christians are not cookie cutter believers. Each walks his/her own path. So asking someone to speak for ALL christians is not feasible and will not garner you any answers. It all depends on which or what statement/explanation tickles your own ears.

I never said that. That is why I specified that I wanted to hear multiple answers from multiple people. Everyone has different background and training and experiences. Thus why I asked a whole forum full of people.

I was giving my opinion. You took it personal as if I was addressing you. I was addressing the topic.