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Hardly.
When an economy is in a deflationary spiral, the government must be the demand of last resort. Congress and Obama recognized that fact and turned things around.
Saved us from a second Great Depression.
Chris, you do understand that all economists predicted that the recession would subside in 2009, right?
All that Obama and Congress did was provide kick-backs to unions and added to our national debt.
That and propped things up temporarily to postpone and prolong the inevitable.
NO ONE predicted this recession would subside in 2009....all I heard was it was the "great recession" from all economists that I read.
But the main question on everyone's mind now is when will our bust come to an end?
If you look at the yield curve, historically a very reliable indicator of swings in the business cycle, activity should pick up by the end of 2009.
That would mean that the recession will be longer than many professional economists are forecasting. Which shouldn't be a surprise to anyone, considering what a bad job forecasters did with predicting this recession.
Read more: Official Recession Began In 2007 - News Markets - Portfolio.com
Most folks who get into this mess could afford it fine when they bought it.
Why the heck isn't the home loan market set up more like the real estate market itself? In the real estate market there are agents to represent buyers and sellers, and the agent is supposed to represent the interest of their client. With the home loan market there's no one to represent your interests but yourself, its you vs. the bank. Would be great if you could get a buyers-side loan agent to help you select a bank to get the loan from, do the footwork for you, and help you understand all the legal mumbo jumbo - just like with a buying agent with the actual home.
It's incumbent upon the buyer to research lenders in their area and go on reputation of those in the know.
People that walk in blind are asking for trouble. Our financial lender does as much, if not more, than our real estate agent.
Except the mortgage hawks acting as financial advisors drew in unsuspecting people (just like real financial advisors sometimes do with millionnaires who aren't experts) by promising that even if a person would struggle making the initial mortgage payment, with housing at an all-time high, they could easily refinance in a few months. A lot of people fell for their shtick. Was that stupidity? Yes, and the hawks knew that. They preyed on those very people who wouldn't understand.
Whatever happened to the formula banks used to use of a mortgage payment being no higher than a third of your monthly income? I remember the first house we wanted to buy, filled out the application and related paperwork for lender approval, and it got bounced for that reason. So we went shopping for a lower-priced home and found one. That's the problem with the whole mess. BANKS (deposit banks) began competing with store-front mortgage lenders who changed all the rules in order to scam people and pocket obscene profits.
Dude I got a CC in 1995 as a freshman in college. THe college actually allows the CC companies to set up on campus. They would even give you a free T-shirt if you applies. Fing ridiculous. I knew right then and there that something was wrong - my income about $100 a week, I'm 18, and all of a sudden I had a credit card!?! huh?Same thing with credit card companies that offered a card to people with bad credit, but were able to rake in enormous profits off the high interest alone. They could write off the principal as a bad debt.
What is really amazing is that an 18 year old who was not in college and who worked full time and brought home 15k a year could not get a credit card - but an 18 year old college kid with a less than half time job making less than 5k a year could.Credit was so easy to obtain that low-income, middle-income, and high-end, middle-income people went on a spending spree of buy now, pay later, and wound up in debt up to their eyeballs
Everyone wanted a piece of the action. And the ones who made out like bandits were...the bandits selling the easy credit.
Unemployment rate: <5%
Inflation rate: <2%
Gas price: $2.59
Yeah. Team Obama would kill to get those kinds of numbers today.
What was your point, witless one?
You continue to try to convince yourself (and others) that nothing carried over. The economy began to seriously tank in the summer of 2007 and came to fruition when by the end of December 2008, 1.4 million jobs had already been lost due to the panic on Wall Street resulting from major banking institutions going belly up, one by one.
Do you honestly believe 2009 began with a clean slate that Obama messed up?
I'm certain he believes in the clean slate....in fact, all republicans seem to believe in it, as of late....except of course when it comes to them taking over, then it will be something "they inherited".....
happens on both sides of the aisle, I suppose.
If true, that would make him exactly the same as George W Bush, actually. Sorry. Bush never took responsibility for a single thing. Never in his entire life. That's why he thinks his worst moment was when some egotistical douchebag of a rapper was mean to him.Every president inherits things from his predecessor. Obama is different only in that he blames his predecessor for every failure of his own policy instead of tkaing responsibility.
If true, that would make him exactly the same as George W Bush, actually. Sorry. Bush never took responsibility for a single thing. Never in his entire life. That's why he thinks his worst moment was when some egotistical douchebag of a rapper was mean to him.Every president inherits things from his predecessor. Obama is different only in that he blames his predecessor for every failure of his own policy instead of tkaing responsibility.
According to Bush, Bush didn't have any policy failures.If true, that would make him exactly the same as George W Bush, actually. Sorry. Bush never took responsibility for a single thing. Never in his entire life. That's why he thinks his worst moment was when some egotistical douchebag of a rapper was mean to him.Every president inherits things from his predecessor. Obama is different only in that he blames his predecessor for every failure of his own policy instead of tkaing responsibility.
Dude. You need to stop listening to left wing hacks.
Bush never blamed his predecessor (or anyone else) for his own policy failures. Get with the picture.
You have got to be joking. There are no mortgage hawks out there scooping up unsuspecting victims. You were not simply walking down the damn street one day and BAM, a corner mortgage guy catches you with his sales pitch. In order to get to that point you had to go LOOKING for a house. When I purchased my house I calculated what I could spend and looked at houses on that category. What people were doing was playing a dangerous gambling game where they wanted to refinance over and over again without ever making a principle payment. They knew exactly what they were doing and if they did not then they deserved whatever hardships came their way as a result. Unfortunately, now everyone that did the right thing is now suffering because the fallout causes a domino effect throughout the entire economy. What the lenders were doing was following the governments plan and offloading their bad mortgages to Fanny and Freddy. Had those entities NOT purchased every dam crap loan that was thrown at them in behest of the government there would not have been a housing crisis. The home loan market does not need to be set up like anything. What it needs is to take the risk that they are getting into rather than selling it off to a third party, particularly to a party as closely connected with the government as the 2 big ones were or to an entity that large in the first place.Most folks who get into this mess could afford it fine when they bought it.
Why the heck isn't the home loan market set up more like the real estate market itself? In the real estate market there are agents to represent buyers and sellers, and the agent is supposed to represent the interest of their client. With the home loan market there's no one to represent your interests but yourself, its you vs. the bank. Would be great if you could get a buyers-side loan agent to help you select a bank to get the loan from, do the footwork for you, and help you understand all the legal mumbo jumbo - just like with a buying agent with the actual home.
It's incumbent upon the buyer to research lenders in their area and go on reputation of those in the know.
People that walk in blind are asking for trouble. Our financial lender does as much, if not more, than our real estate agent.
Except the mortgage hawks acting as financial advisors drew in unsuspecting people (just like real financial advisors sometimes do with millionnaires who aren't experts) by promising that even if a person would struggle making the initial mortgage payment, with housing at an all-time high, they could easily refinance in a few months. A lot of people fell for their shtick. Was that stupidity? Yes, and the hawks knew that. They preyed on those very people who wouldn't understand.
!! Since when do you count a home as a product?? I am worried about your future if that is how you treat anything that you put your cash into. A home is an INVESTMENT, not a product. It is not used and disposed of it is cared for and increases in value over time, not the opposite. There is a HUGE difference between an investment and a product that you purchase and it is not a non argument.A net negative return?
How the hell did you calculate that? Don't worry, I can keep up...
If you buy something and its value goes down, that's a net negative return. Genius.
So what DOESN'T go down in value once purchased? Speaking strictly of consumer products. This is a non-argument.
First it did not accomplish this goal mostly because of the way the money was handled. Second, there is a PRICE associated with the infution and that is exactly what we are paying right now. That is one of the MAJOR reasons that this economy is not recovering like it should. We spent some of the recovery to lessen the recession but people do not seem to realize that recessions are necessary to realign the economy to where it actually is rather than the inflated position that people think it is and you CANNOT avoid the pain that comes with one. Our government, mostly because of the peoples inability to accept it, seems to think that we should be happy and successful all the time when that is simply not possible. Artificially carrying us through a recession is not going to work by simply throwing a bucket of cash at the problem, particularly when you dont even have a defined purpose for that cash. In this case, paying for people to buy a home is particularly stupid because that is very similar to the idiocy that caused the problem in the first place. Money for buying a house created an artificial demand for a product, propping up prices for a VERY short period of time. Specifically, that time the cash was offered. After that point the prices are going to drop and end up at the same point they would have ended up anyway and that cash not causing any real impact other than screwing with the economy even more.Yes it did help slow the fall.
The truth of the matter is that it likely did NOT slow the fall. Rather, it is more likely that sales were made EARLIER than people had planned but I have a glaring suspicion that the actual number of sales over a longer period wou8ld be the same. If you are going to buy a house then you are going to buy a house and the measly 8K is not going to change your mind. The only thing that 8it will do is motivate you to buy NOW rather than waiting 6 months or so. That is EXACTLY what happened with car sales. People that were going to buy a car anyway went ahead and bought one earlier. That is why the sharp increase was followed by a drastic decrease in sales.
But it put money back into circulation at the time, which was the point.
Chris, you do understand that all economists predicted that the recession would subside in 2009, right?
All that Obama and Congress did was provide kick-backs to unions and added to our national debt.
That and propped things up temporarily to postpone and prolong the inevitable.
NO ONE predicted this recession would subside in 2009....all I heard was it was the "great recession" from all economists that I read.
Totally untrue.
Either you were listening to incredibly biased reporting, or not really gleaning what was to be expected.
No offense intended.
Although unemployment is only a portion of our economy, even Obama's stimulus pitch showed a deceleration in 2009.
September Unemployment: The Job Loss Accelerates « Innocent Bystanders
Of course, to a person that is conservative by nature, I would suggest that the housing market continues to falter based, in large part, to the agenda of the progressive left.
You must be honest in admitting that this is one of the most business unfriendly administrations in history.
Before Obama was elected he discussed how his policy on fossil fuels would bankrupt the industry. If you want, I can link that for you. Those are his words. Do you think that intentionally causing higher prices will not hit everyone? Again, he says that industry will pass their pains onto consumers. Again, his words.
So people/businesses take their money/businesses overseas, more people become unemployed, lose their homes, live off of unemployment benefits or go on welfare....and it keeps spiraling down.
How anyone thinks that this administrations policies have somehow helped our economy is astounding. Perhaps that individual believes in the ideological principles of being "progressive" as opposed to actually looking at the outcomes.
Chris, you do understand that all economists predicted that the recession would subside in 2009, right?
All that Obama and Congress did was provide kick-backs to unions and added to our national debt.
That and propped things up temporarily to postpone and prolong the inevitable.
NO ONE predicted this recession would subside in 2009....all I heard was it was the "great recession" from all economists that I read.
What you read is irrelevant to the argument.
Official Recession Began In 2007 - News Markets - Portfolio.com
But the main question on everyone's mind now is when will our bust come to an end?
If you look at the yield curve, historically a very reliable indicator of swings in the business cycle, activity should pick up by the end of 2009.
That would mean that the recession will be longer than many professional economists are forecasting. Which shouldn't be a surprise to anyone, considering what a bad job forecasters did with predicting this recession.
Read more: Official Recession Began In 2007 - News Markets - Portfolio.com
So back in 2007 many were predicting the recession would end in 2009, making it among the longest. Yet here we are 2 years later still in the early stages of recovery. And why? Obamanomics is the only answer.
It's incumbent upon the buyer to research lenders in their area and go on reputation of those in the know.
People that walk in blind are asking for trouble. Our financial lender does as much, if not more, than our real estate agent.
Except the mortgage hawks acting as financial advisors drew in unsuspecting people (just like real financial advisors sometimes do with millionnaires who aren't experts) by promising that even if a person would struggle making the initial mortgage payment, with housing at an all-time high, they could easily refinance in a few months. A lot of people fell for their shtick. Was that stupidity? Yes, and the hawks knew that. They preyed on those very people who wouldn't understand.
Personal responsibility. No one forced them to sign the paperwork.
NO ONE predicted this recession would subside in 2009....all I heard was it was the "great recession" from all economists that I read.
What you read is irrelevant to the argument.
Official Recession Began In 2007 - News Markets - Portfolio.com
But the main question on everyone's mind now is when will our bust come to an end?
If you look at the yield curve, historically a very reliable indicator of swings in the business cycle, activity should pick up by the end of 2009.
That would mean that the recession will be longer than many professional economists are forecasting. Which shouldn't be a surprise to anyone, considering what a bad job forecasters did with predicting this recession.
Read more: Official Recession Began In 2007 - News Markets - Portfolio.com
So back in 2007 many were predicting the recession would end in 2009, making it among the longest. Yet here we are 2 years later still in the early stages of recovery. And why? Obamanomics is the only answer.
After Japan's U-shaped (long slump) recession in the 1990s, it took five years for unemployment to fall back to its original levels. Also, I'm beginning to see economists claim that 8% unemployment might be considered the norm, since so many of the manufacturing jobs will never return and thousands of people who became unemployed during this recession will either remain unemployed (and on welfare) or will need retraining, that is IF there is any NEW industry coming along to even start employing in great numbers again.
Except the mortgage hawks acting as financial advisors drew in unsuspecting people (just like real financial advisors sometimes do with millionnaires who aren't experts) by promising that even if a person would struggle making the initial mortgage payment, with housing at an all-time high, they could easily refinance in a few months. A lot of people fell for their shtick. Was that stupidity? Yes, and the hawks knew that. They preyed on those very people who wouldn't understand.
Personal responsibility. No one forced them to sign the paperwork.
Yeah, well, that's how the blame game goes for you people. I get it that you don't get it that underprivileged people have dreams too. But it still doesn't explain why middle-class people in existing homes could no longer afford their mortgages. One reason is they too found themselves laid off after having taken two or three refinances offered by a store-front carnival barker and suddenly those homes weren't worth squat, but they still had the mortgage to pay. Even if they tried to rectify the situation, they couldn't even find out who currently OWNED the mortgage because it had been bundled into mountains of others and sold off as a "security" to greedy Wall Street investors. No one even ASKED THEM to sign paperwork signing off on those shenanigans!!
You continue to try to convince yourself (and others) that nothing carried over. The economy began to seriously tank in the summer of 2007 and came to fruition when by the end of December 2008, 1.4 million jobs had already been lost due to the panic on Wall Street resulting from major banking institutions going belly up, one by one.
Do you honestly believe 2009 began with a clean slate that Obama messed up?
I'm certain he believes in the clean slate....
happens on both sides of the aisle, I suppose.
Every president inherits things from his predecessor. Obama is different only in that he blames his predecessor for every failure of his own policy instead of tkaing responsibility.
You (Maggie) make the point that economy in 2007 sucked. It obviously did not. What happened later is irrelevant to the argument that the economy sucked in 2007.
So the relevant question is, given the economic climate Obama inherited, did he make it better or worse with his policies? The answer is very clearly he made it worse.
No you can't. The answer is in the OP, which you clearly don't grok.
I "grok" the OP just fine, thanks. So perhaps you can tell me how you calculated a net negative return on investment.
Could you possibly be any STOOPIDER?
If you pay $100 for a stock and it goes down in value, your net worth has dropped by $15. It doesn't matter that somebody gave you $8 to add to your $92 to pay or it in the first place.
The owner of the house is still on the hook for the mortgage, and has likely lost most of his down payment.
How Hopey Changey is That!
I "grok" the OP just fine, thanks. So perhaps you can tell me how you calculated a net negative return on investment.
Could you possibly be any STOOPIDER?
If you pay $100 for a stock and it goes down in value, your net worth has dropped by $15. It doesn't matter that somebody gave you $8 to add to your $92 to pay or it in the first place.
The owner of the house is still on the hook for the mortgage, and has likely lost most of his down payment.
How Hopey Changey is That!
You are really this ignorant?
Really?
The negative return on investment was the purchase of the house.
The $8,000 credit serves to offset a portion of that negative return.
Once you have even the most basic grasp of the terms you are using, feel free to respond. Fucking amazing.
The Recession officially ended in June 2009. After that, we entered the Worst Recovery Ever.
And that is what Obamanomics is all about.
The 2008/2009 recession is seeing private consumption fall for the first time in nearly 20 years. This indicates the depth and severity of the current recession. With consumer confidence so low, recovery will take a long time. Consumers in the U.S. have been hard hit by the current recession, with the value of their houses dropping and their pension savings decimated on the stock market.
