How many types of wealthy are there?

[Cecilie1200]

Most of the work that goes on in this country that I would call "hard" doesn't actually pay very well.

Most of the time the more money a person makes/has the less hard work he has actually done.

Oh, because one just starts out in the executive suite? Guess again.

Let's take my business for an example. We do event promotions, and we're still a small business. Our long-term business plan calls for having our own building, which will house an event venue hall, a cafe/nightclub, and business offices. Judging by our counterparts in Phoenix, we should be quite well-off financially by that point. But that's just the finished product, as is getting dressed up and going to terrific parties and concerts.

The background is that I can start this business and build it to that point and beyond because I put in sixteen years working my way up from being a receptionist/file clerk to being an administrative assistant, in the process learning everything there is to know about business admin and organization and how to plan successful events. My partner put in comparable career time at shit jobs, learning marketing and sales from the ground up. Right now, we are the only employees we have, so we do every job there is, from going to the meetings to standing in line at the various government offices to filling out the reams of paperwork required by those government offices to climbing the ladders to hang the decorations to handing out fliers on the street to picking up the trash after the party so the venue doesn't complain. And we both work on the side to keep food in our mouths (well, I'm a housewife, so I work to keep my husband working, but whatever). And it'll be that way for years.

Would you like to tell me that some guy we hire to clean and maintain the building or some chick we hire to tend the bar five years from now works harder for my business and is more entitled to the profits, just because their jobs involve more obvious physical labor at that point in time?

The one thing you can be sure of is that if someone didn't inherit their money - and maybe even if they did - they put in their time and paid their dues to get there.

 

[Saikron]

Most of the work that goes on in this country that I would call "hard" doesn't actually pay very well.

Most of the time the more money a person makes/has the less hard work he has actually done.

Oh, because one just starts out in the executive suite? Guess again.

Let's take my business for an example. We do event promotions, and we're still a small business. Our long-term business plan calls for having our own building, which will house an event venue hall, a cafe/nightclub, and business offices. Judging by our counterparts in Phoenix, we should be quite well-off financially by that point. But that's just the finished product, as is getting dressed up and going to terrific parties and concerts.

The background is that I can start this business and build it to that point and beyond because I put in sixteen years working my way up from being a receptionist/file clerk to being an administrative assistant, in the process learning everything there is to know about business admin and organization and how to plan successful events. My partner put in comparable career time at shit jobs, learning marketing and sales from the ground up. Right now, we are the only employees we have, so we do every job there is, from going to the meetings to standing in line at the various government offices to filling out the reams of paperwork required by those government offices to climbing the ladders to hang the decorations to handing out fliers on the street to picking up the trash after the party so the venue doesn't complain. And we both work on the side to keep food in our mouths (well, I'm a housewife, so I work to keep my husband working, but whatever). And it'll be that way for years.

Would you like to tell me that some guy we hire to clean and maintain the building or some chick we hire to tend the bar five years from now works harder for my business and is more entitled to the profits, just because their jobs involve more obvious physical labor at that point in time?

The one thing you can be sure of is that if someone didn't inherit their money - and maybe even if they did - they put in their time and paid their dues to get there.

"Putting in time" isn't hard work and neither is being a receptionist, administrative assistant, or housewife. That said, think about how much money you made doing that, and then think about how much money a hedge fund manager makes, or take somebody from my field: computer science. Project managers in IT get 6 figures for telling the 5 figure guys to work faster and writing budget reports. When I bring this up to IT managers the response is usually, "Bbbut the CFO yells at me."

 

[Political Junky]

I think the question is WHAT is wealthy?..a question I have asked here several times and received one answer,$ 500.000. Does it matter how they got it?

That's certainly not the wealth we mean when we talk about the top 1%, who have 24% of the money in the US.

 

[Saikron]

I think the question is WHAT is wealthy?..a question I have asked here several times and received one answer,$ 500.000. Does it matter how they got it?

That's certainly not the wealth we mean when we talk about the top 1%, who have 24% of the money in the US.

You sure about that number? I've seen at least 10% more than 24

 

[Political Junky]

I think the question is WHAT is wealthy?..a question I have asked here several times and received one answer,$ 500.000. Does it matter how they got it?

That's certainly not the wealth we mean when we talk about the top 1%, who have 24% of the money in the US.

You sure about that number? I've seen at least 10% more than 24

That is the last figure I saw.

 

[Political Junky]

Where does most of the income taxes come from....the upper 5%, or the bottom 50% of wage earners? Be honest.

The top 5% has far more income than the bottom 50%.

No shit, Sherlock......And they pay the lions share of all the income tax.

Those who live on investments pay a maximum of 15% on those earning. Less than that after deductions.

 

[daveman]

"Putting in time" isn't hard work and neither is being a receptionist, administrative assistant, or housewife.

Obviously, you've never done any of it.

 

[shintao]

The one thing you can be sure of is that if someone didn't inherit their money - and maybe even if they did - they put in their time and paid their dues to get there.

The only thing you can be sure of is what you have done yourself. 16 years seems like a long time without hiring anyone to assist in the dirty work. If the business isn't expanding and work projects picking up, you might analyze your business and see if it can be better, or used in a different way. Say a cafe might also serve as a food to go. A party entertainment might also do weddings or play for a local travelers mecca area. You do have to get yourself in a position where other people (OPs) are doing the work with your minimal support or supervision. That is how you make money, .... OPs. Your time is too valuable to sit by doing it part time when you can be doing other things to expand. Use contractors/part time OPs to escape their benefits & ins with the state. Wish you luck.

Speaking of food to go. What you never/rarely see in food deliveries is Mexican foods. A chain of Mexican delivery could put any pizza/chinese business to shame. You could contract with any great Mexican resturant to buy the food from, and I am sure they would be willing to work a deal. Then you just need yourself to take calls, call in orders, call your delivery boy to pick up & deliver, and a couple of part time delivery people with drivers license & insurance. This is mostly a night business, 4 to 10pm.

 

[MaggieMae]

Do YOU understand that "inherited" doesn't mean "up for grabs by greedy liberals"? SOMEONE worked hard for that money, and it WASN'T YOU, so what makes you think you should have more of a claim on where their hard-earned money goes after they die than they do? You didn't even know them, so what makes you think you have ANY claim on it?

But how many people had to work hard in order for that "someone" to reap the benefits of the labor?

Unless they were slaves in chains, they got compensated for their labor, so spare me the sob story of "exploitation".

Yeah, that's why top level managers, IT people, etc., were pushed out of their jobs so that businesses could import the same talent from India on H-1B visas for much lower salaries. That's why wages have been flat since the late 90's, or reduced, why benefits were reduced or even eliminated. That's why lower level jobs were eliminated and two part-timers hired as replacements so benefits and overtime wouldn't have to be paid.

Sob stories. You betcha.

 

[MaggieMae]

You're right and thank you for correcting my embarrassing error.


I've never met the man. I've seen him interviewed twice on television and he seemed very pleasant and not at all arrogant. But I'd like to know what your understanding of Buffett is and how you came by it.

I've never met Trump, either, but he seems like a smug, arrogant snot who loves having his ass kissed. If anyone has a different impression of Donald Trump I'd like to know what that is, too.


Wealth is the ability to afford a fine home, fine cars, university tuitions for one's children, vacations, a life of leisure and access to good medical care. Any normal, rational individual who cannot be content with that level of wealth is categorically greedy.

Greed is synonymous with gluttony. The luxurious lifestyle I've outlined above may be metaphorically thought of as a full plate and anything more than a full plate is excess. I (tentatively) believe that twenty million dollars could more than adequately sustain such a lifestyle so I consider anything beyond that level of wealth to be excessive.

If you could afford such a lifestyle would you want more? If so, why?

I've never heard of anyone saying an unkind word about Warren Buffett. Cecilie thinks he's a bad man because he tells it like it is.

No, I think he's a bad man because he's NOT telling you how it really is. He's telling you what you want to hear, and you're eating it up with a spoon while he laughs at you all the way to the bank.

Where's your proof of any of that?

 

[MaggieMae]

Most of the work that goes on in this country that I would call "hard" doesn't actually pay very well.

Most of the time the more money a person makes/has the less hard work he has actually done.

Oh, because one just starts out in the executive suite? Guess again.

Let's take my business for an example. We do event promotions, and we're still a small business. Our long-term business plan calls for having our own building, which will house an event venue hall, a cafe/nightclub, and business offices. Judging by our counterparts in Phoenix, we should be quite well-off financially by that point. But that's just the finished product, as is getting dressed up and going to terrific parties and concerts.

The background is that I can start this business and build it to that point and beyond because I put in sixteen years working my way up from being a receptionist/file clerk to being an administrative assistant, in the process learning everything there is to know about business admin and organization and how to plan successful events. My partner put in comparable career time at shit jobs, learning marketing and sales from the ground up. Right now, we are the only employees we have, so we do every job there is, from going to the meetings to standing in line at the various government offices to filling out the reams of paperwork required by those government offices to climbing the ladders to hang the decorations to handing out fliers on the street to picking up the trash after the party so the venue doesn't complain. And we both work on the side to keep food in our mouths (well, I'm a housewife, so I work to keep my husband working, but whatever). And it'll be that way for years.

Would you like to tell me that some guy we hire to clean and maintain the building or some chick we hire to tend the bar five years from now works harder for my business and is more entitled to the profits, just because their jobs involve more obvious physical labor at that point in time?

The one thing you can be sure of is that if someone didn't inherit their money - and maybe even if they did - they put in their time and paid their dues to get there.

I wish I knew what you sold so I'd be sure not to buy any. You claim to be such a success, yet apparently you have whined all the way to the top anyway. Go figure. Most people I know who are successful small business owners (retail and service) pay their taxes without complaint, and if they have failed, take sole responsibility for it. They don't blame the tax man who keeps their toilets flushing, their streets clear of potholes, and even gave them good workers who were retrained at government expense. I know of two who climbed the ladder from relative low-income obscurity, and ironically now that they are succeeding are damned appreciative and treat other lower-level staff in their organizations with respect because they've been there/done that. If they suddenly started whining that it cost them too much in taxes to afford them, morale would be in the toilet, and the product would suffer.

 

[MaggieMae]

That's certainly not the wealth we mean when we talk about the top 1%, who have 24% of the money in the US.

You sure about that number? I've seen at least 10% more than 24

That is the last figure I saw.

It's correct.

Press Releases - Press - U.S. Congress Joint Economic Committee

On the eve of the Census Bureau’s release of the 2009 poverty data, a new report by the U.S. Congress Joint Economic Committee (JEC) shows that income inequality skyrocketed in the past three decades, peaked under President Bush just before the Great Recession began, and may have been a root cause of the worst recession since the Great Depression.

The report, entitled “Income Inequality and the Great Recession,” finds that middle class incomes, which had grown at a healthy pace during the Clinton Administration, declined under President Bush and never regained their highs reached before the 2001 recession. After President Bush’s eight years in office, middle class families had seen their annual incomes fall by more than $2,600.

Stagnant incomes led to an increased demand for credit, with the household debt-to-income ratio growing dramatically from 2001-2007. The unsustainable spending sparked the housing bubble, and subsequent collapse, and ultimately helped to trigger the Great Recession.

 

[Cecilie1200]

Most of the work that goes on in this country that I would call "hard" doesn't actually pay very well.

Most of the time the more money a person makes/has the less hard work he has actually done.

Oh, because one just starts out in the executive suite? Guess again.

Let's take my business for an example. We do event promotions, and we're still a small business. Our long-term business plan calls for having our own building, which will house an event venue hall, a cafe/nightclub, and business offices. Judging by our counterparts in Phoenix, we should be quite well-off financially by that point. But that's just the finished product, as is getting dressed up and going to terrific parties and concerts.

The background is that I can start this business and build it to that point and beyond because I put in sixteen years working my way up from being a receptionist/file clerk to being an administrative assistant, in the process learning everything there is to know about business admin and organization and how to plan successful events. My partner put in comparable career time at shit jobs, learning marketing and sales from the ground up. Right now, we are the only employees we have, so we do every job there is, from going to the meetings to standing in line at the various government offices to filling out the reams of paperwork required by those government offices to climbing the ladders to hang the decorations to handing out fliers on the street to picking up the trash after the party so the venue doesn't complain. And we both work on the side to keep food in our mouths (well, I'm a housewife, so I work to keep my husband working, but whatever). And it'll be that way for years.

Would you like to tell me that some guy we hire to clean and maintain the building or some chick we hire to tend the bar five years from now works harder for my business and is more entitled to the profits, just because their jobs involve more obvious physical labor at that point in time?

The one thing you can be sure of is that if someone didn't inherit their money - and maybe even if they did - they put in their time and paid their dues to get there.

"Putting in time" isn't hard work and neither is being a receptionist, administrative assistant, or housewife. That said, think about how much money you made doing that, and then think about how much money a hedge fund manager makes, or take somebody from my field: computer science. Project managers in IT get 6 figures for telling the 5 figure guys to work faster and writing budget reports. When I bring this up to IT managers the response is usually, "Bbbut the CFO yells at me."

Fuck you if you don't think that being a wife and mother is hard work. Go tell your own mom that, and see what she says. As for the rest, being low man on the totem pole is hard work, no matter what totem pole you're talking about. Maybe you just don't use your own brain enough to realize how hard it can actually be to work with one.

And I know for a fact that hedge fund managers and project managers do more work than you apparently believe they do, completely aside from having to get the education and then work their way up into those positions. If you DON'T know those things, then you either aren't in one of those positions, or you suck so badly at it you're on the verge of getting fired.

Anytime some dolt starts telling me how little is involved in a high-paid white collar job, I know he's manning the copy machine in the basement.

 

[MikeK]

For starters, Warren Buffett is a disingenuous, manipulative user, which never endears people to me. While I'm sure being manipulative to a certain extent is required for anyone to become extremely wealthy, not everyone is dishonest about it. Buffett is. That whole, folksy, "I'm just supporting this because it's the right thing to do" schtick is a baldfaced lie, designed to get idiots to support laws that end up pouring money into his pocket? Yeah, it's legal, and it's even ethical, but it doesn't spell "nice person" in my book.

Buffett is one of the richest men in the world so he has no need to patronizingly deceive anyone. I was particularly impressed with his saying that the tax system is so skewed in favor of the rich that his secretary is taxed at a higher rate than he is. Does that seem like he's interested in having people support laws that would put money in his pocket?

The one thing Buffett doesn't need is money and I think he's well aware of that, which might account for his affable personality. He is on in years and I think he wants to be perceived as a person, not some kind of Scrooge.

First of all, who appointed YOU the arbiter of what "wealth" is, what "greed" is, and what "excess" is? And where was I when this election was held? And by the way, are you going to answer my question as to what's necessary to accumulate "excessive" wealth?

I did answer your question but you have opposing ideas. So I'll try again.

I define wealth as having the amount of resources needed to lead a secure and luxurious lifestyle within the boundaries of rational constraint. More specifically, I believe wealth will enable one to own a fine home and fine cars, to afford tuitions in the best universities for one's children, to afford premium medical care and to enjoy comfortable leisure. I happen to think twenty million dollars would enable such a lifestyle and therefore qualifies as wealth. Any more than that qualifies as excessive wealth (in my opinion).

I believe that anyone who would not be satisfied with the lifestyle outlined in the above hypothesis is affected by the pathology of greed.

Greed is a behavioral characteristic not unlike drug addiction. And like drug addiction it affects some people more readily and more profoundly than others (i.e., the addictive personality). Some people can use an addictive drug now and then and never acquire a craving for it while others who use it once or twice get "hooked." Money is like that to some people. And the insidious thing about any addiction is the progressive tolerance factor, which means the addict keeps needing more and more to get high.

If you're wondering why there needs to be a limit placed on the accumulation of assets you must first understand and accept that any money you acquire through some form of commerce (or larceny) within the boundaries of the U.S. economy is a share of this Nation's resources. The money you have in your bank account is a segment of America's wealth which you somehow have obtained. While it belongs to you, you would not have it were it not for the American resources you exploited to obtain it.

In order for this Nation to remain healthy and strong it is necessary that its resources be well maintained and equitably distributed among its citizens so they can remain healthy and strong. Some will acquire more than others, which is to be expected because some people are more productive than others. But unless some limitation is imposed on the amount of resources an individual citizen is permitted to acquire it is inevitable that some will manage to acquire an excessive amount which will create the kind of imbalance that occurred in the twenties during the "Gilded Age" and which has recently brought our national economy to the brink of collapse.

The problem we're seeing today was caused by money junkies whose addictions have compelled them to acquire wealth in the mega-millions and billions of dollars, more money in some cases than is possible for them to spend. This is a prime example of excessive wealth and it is the result of unrestrained greed.